My master plan for the Orioles

by rp0806 on Nov 23, 2005 2:18 PM EST Comment 11 comments

I'm pretty tired of the Orioles' half-hearted attempts to rebuild over the last 8 years. I really like guys like Mora and Tejada, but maybe the Orioles should follow the Marlins lead and start from scratch. My suggestions are below:

IMO, only Bedard and Cabrera should be considered untouchable. Here's what I would try to do:

Tejada, Mora, C. Ray, J. Johnson & Haehnel to the Angels for Kotchman, Wood, Figgins, Weaver and Cabrera. Angels are giving up a lot of talent, but they're ridding themselves of Cabrera's contract and getting the best SS in baseball in return.
J. Lopez for B. McCann. McCann is expendable with Saltalammanchia coming up, and Lopez would give them decent production until he's ready.
Maine and Finch for S. Healy. Healy is blocked by Helton.
R. Lopez for J. Gathright.
B. Chen & J. Gibbons for W. M. Pena.
Sign Ryan, Byrd & Millwood.

Orioles lineup in 2006:

C McCann
1b Kotchman
2b Roberts
3b Figgins
SS Cabrera
RF Pena
CF Gathright
LF Markakis
DH Healy

Rotation:

Millwood
Bedard
Cabrera
Byrd
Weaver

Closer: Ryan
Set up: Britton, Rakers

That team would probably stink in 2006, but it would be in great shape for the future, esp. with Loewen, Penn, Olson, Reimold, et al coming up. Also, if Cabrera has a decent season and WOod seems ready, they could move him after 2006 for another prospect. If Cabrera continues to stink, make him the backup infielder.

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re:

Tejada, Mora, C. Ray, J. Johnson & Haehnel to the Angels for Kotchman, Wood, Figgins, Weaver and Cabrera. Angels are giving up a lot of talent, but they're ridding themselves of Cabrera's contract and getting the best SS in baseball in return.

J. Lopez for B. McCann. McCann is expendable with Saltalammanchia coming up, and Lopez would give them decent production until he's ready.

Why bother? Lopez is in the final year of his contract and it's not like McCann looks like a long-term solution to anything.

Maine and Finch for S. Healy. Healy is blocked by Helton.

Ryan Shealy, and I'm down with this one.

R. Lopez for J. Gathright.

I'm no big Lopez fan but Gathright can't hit for beans and isn't even that good of a base stealer. That said losing Lopez wouldn't really affect the Orioles next year or any other year, but why for Gathright? He's a backup center fielder.

B. Chen & J. Gibbons for W. M. Pena.

Gibbons and Pena are the same hitter and Chen is the best pitcher we have.

Sign Ryan, Byrd & Millwood.

Ryan sure, the other two are probably going to be more money than they're worth. Millwood has never once strung together two straight above average seasons.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by SC on Nov 23, 2005 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re: Master plan

My initial, more detailed response appears to have been eaten. Anyway...

Why don't you like Tejada deal? Because you don't like the players involved or because you wouldn't trade him under any circumstances?

McCann is already pretty good and is only 21. He could be the Orioles starting catcher for years.

Look at Gathright's minor league numbers. He's got potential and is an excellent defender in CF.

Pena is younger than Gibbons and has a higher ceiling. He's also a far better defender. Gibbons should be a DH.

All of those pitchers will be overpriced, but the Orioles would have the cash to throw around in this scenario and these guys would give them some stability until the younger ones are ready.

by rp0806 on Nov 24, 2005 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Why don't you like Tejada deal?

Where to even begin? For one, the Angels aren't trading Jered Weaver.

McCann is already pretty good and is only 21. He could be the Orioles starting catcher for years.

Or he could be the Braves starting catcher for years. OR BETTER YET, they could trade him to the Orioles for an old, expensive catcher they already had.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Nov 24, 2005 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

thanks for the edifying response.

by rp0806 on Nov 24, 2005 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Why don't you like Tejada deal? Because you don't like the players involved or because you wouldn't trade him under any circumstances?

I'd trade Tejada for a lot of people, as much as I like Tejada. It's more that I don't think an infield of Kotchman, Roberts, Cabrera and Figgins would be dreadfully weak.

McCann is already pretty good and is only 21. He could be the Orioles starting catcher for years.

He's not that good. He could certainly be the Orioles starting catcher for years considering the Orioles used to start Brook Fordyce.

Look at Gathright's minor league numbers. He's got potential and is an excellent defender in CF.

I've seen his minor league numbers and they tell me he has zero power, isn't a very good base stealer so his speed is somewhat nullified, and he hits for average. That's nice on a team that can afford batting average and defense in center field. The O's aren't one of them. I also realize your idea is to re-shape the entire team, which I think is unwarranted.

Pena is younger than Gibbons and has a higher ceiling. He's also a far better defender. Gibbons should be a DH.

I don't see Pena's ceiling being very high personally. Jay Gibbons was once Pena's age too. This is what he's become.

All of those pitchers will be overpriced, but the Orioles would have the cash to throw around in this scenario and these guys would give them some stability until the younger ones are ready.

They're all going to want at least three-year deals, too, if the money isn't enough to deter you. Why throw around cash unwisely anyway?

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by SC on Nov 24, 2005 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to clarify

By "not very good" I mean "not an exceptional base-stealer" which is what I would want out of a guy with his skills, or rather one that lacks the skills he lacks.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by SC on Nov 24, 2005 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

defense

I'd trade Tejada for a lot of people, as much as I like Tejada. It's more that I don't think an infield of Kotchman, Roberts, Cabrera and Figgins would be dreadfully weak.

But in a couple years it would be an infield of Kotchman, Roberts, Wood, and Figgins (or some other 3B), which could be outstanding, esp. the defense.

Also, a lot of the changes I propose are with defense in mind. Those players could give the Orioles an excellent defense, something the Orioles haven't had in a while.

by rp0806 on Nov 25, 2005 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Birds 06

Here's what I think the O's are going to do for next year; make a strong move to get Hernandez at C, Platoon Javey and Young at 1st, go for a short term upgrade in LF, someone like Encarnacion or maybe R.Sanders,and get a middle rotation starter like Byrd or Loaiza or maybe Millwood. Sign an interim closer like Tod Jomes. If Pontoon had won just 14 games last season we would have finished over 500. Then if Sosa had give us 30 HR's and 100 RBI'S who knows. I would like to see them try to trade for a long term power upgrade at 1st someone like Dunn or Howard. It would mean giving up some pitching prospects but they would be fun to watch and we have a lot of young arms. I'm not ready to start over.

by el gordo on Nov 23, 2005 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

and get a middle rotation starter like Byrd or Loaiza or maybe Millwood.

Loaiza is not a middle of the rotation starter. I don't see what good one would do us anyway, it's all we've got. Millwood just led the AL in ERA and it's a weak market, he's going to get paid a lot more than he should.

If Pontoon had won just 14 games last season we would have finished over 500. Then if Sosa had give us 30 HR's and 100 RBI'S who knows.

This is true. If two crappy players had in fact been pretty good, we could have been better. That's also not true about Ponson, if had won 14 games we still would have been 7 under .500, and that's not even counting the games won in his rotation spot after he was gone, and that's just too much math for me.

I would like to see them try to trade for a long term power upgrade at 1st someone like Dunn or Howard. It would mean giving up some pitching prospects but they would be fun to watch and we have a lot of young arms.

Not really. Howard is obviously going nowhere and we do not have the players to get Adam Dunn.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by SC on Nov 24, 2005 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

New math

Ponson won 7 games. The O's won 74. If Ponson wins 14 thats 7 more games in the O's win column and incidently 7 less losses. Thats 81 and 81. But if Ponson pitches that consistantly he probably has more quality starts which means most likely more wins for the O's and less pressure on the rest of the staff. Maybe more wins. The point is a solid middle rotation guy would be a big step up for O's pitching from Sir Sid. Two such guys would be even better. Cabrera's upside his very high IMHO if he wins 16 -18 games next year I would not be surprised. Bedard could also do well next year. A lot of teams would like to have both of them. Loaiza had a 377 ERA and 177 SO vs 55 W's. He only won 12 but the Nat's barely score 2 0r 3 runs a game. He once won 21;that's more than any O in recent memory including Mussina. At 34 he wouln't cost that much. A 30HR 100RBI bat in the middle of the lineup would raise the numbers of every one around him; Tejada, Mora and Gibbons etc.. Cincy needs pitching and they have a surplus of OF's. They would love to have a Bedard or Penn and a prospect. Pena or Dunn or Kearns would be a welcome addition. Texas needs pitching as well; what would they want for Teixeira. He's not a free agent but he's up for arbitration and will cost them a bundle.

by el gordo on Nov 25, 2005 1:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

I'm sure the Reds WOULD love to trade Pena or Kearns for Bedard/Penn and a prospect. I wouldn't, however.

Loaiza was crap away from RFK. 2.86/1.08 at home, 4.71/1.52 on the road. He did once win 21 games and have a good season, but the rest of his career is nowhere near that. He's really quite consistently bad outside of that one season.

Teixeira is Arlington-inflated. .334/.411/.698 at home, .270/.349/.459 on the road.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by SC on Nov 25, 2005 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs