Damon to Yanks, Jones to Cubs

by Scott Christ on Dec 20, 2005 11:46 PM EST in News & Rumors

Johnny Damon is a Yankee for four years and $52 million, pending his physical. That's a good deal for New York, they can afford to pay that kind of money for Damon, and four years is probably the right contract length. He'll be a huge upgrade on everything they tried in center last year. The Yankees also signed Octavio Dotel to a one-year, $2 million deal.

Jacque Jones signed with the Cubs for three years and $16 million.

The Rangers traded Chris Young, Adrian Gonzalez and Terrmel Sledge to San Diego for Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka. Otsuka and Eaton are going to get hammered in Arlington. Eaton's a fly ball pitcher and Otsuka stunk on the road for San Diego last season. Gonzalez's power will take a hit in San Diego, but Young could really become a solid pitcher there. Good deal for the Padres if you ask me. "T" for Texas, "T" for Terrible Trade.

Tweet Comment 32 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Satan

Yuck!!the Stankees are gonna be really good next year. They've helped their Bullpen and plugged the hole in center as well as getting the lead off bat they've needed. If any four of their 7 starting pitchers have decent years they shoud be a lock. Their only real weakness is defense at 1st. Maybe they can play Bernie there.

by el gordo on Dec 20, 2005 11:59 PM EST reply actions

re

They'll play Giambi at first because he hits much better when he plays the field.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 21, 2005 12:17 AM EST up reply actions

Same Here

They look to be crazy this year. They're doing what the Orioles should have been doing all along, that's filling the holes.

Which team is going to have a bust year? Yankees,Mets or Dodgers

My bet is the Dodgers

PLay like you want it, Live like you need it

by merdon1332000 on Dec 21, 2005 12:22 AM EST reply actions

what about the sox

They're not looking very good right now. Toronto looks like a better team. They're infield is iffy offensively. They've just lost Damon. Trot Nixon is frequently injured. If they trade Manny, Ortiz won't have any protection. Which Clement will show up next season? Can Schilling, Beckett and Foulke stay healthy? It's really not crazy to think that the O's will finish ahead of the Sox.

by birdman on Dec 21, 2005 2:47 AM EST up reply actions

If The Sox

get J.Reed and keep Manny and Pitcher stay healty, they win the Wild Card

PLay like you want it, Live like you need it

by merdon1332000 on Dec 21, 2005 3:57 AM EST up reply actions

re:

It's really not crazy to think that the O's will finish ahead of the Sox.

Well if you assume that they don't replace Damon with Jeremy Reed or Coco Crisp, Clement sucks, they trade Manny (it's not happening), Schilling, Beckett and Foulke all get injured and Trot Nixon does too, sure, the Orioles might finish ahead of Boston so long as nothing goes wrong for them either.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 21, 2005 4:54 AM EST up reply actions

Ahem..

We have CONINE. We WILL finish ahead of the Sox. I don't see how this can possibly go wrong.

Beltway Sports Beat: A blog or fans of Baltimore-Washington area sports

by CStoneNo37 on Dec 21, 2005 9:29 AM EST up reply actions

Re:

Can he pitch as well as platoon in the OF?

"We are coming back strong next year ... I know you have heard that tune before, but this time it will literally come true." Peter Angelos 09/2005

by drj on Dec 21, 2005 9:51 AM EST up reply actions

O's versus RS

"don't replace Damon with Jeremy Reed or Coco Crisp, Clement sucks, they trade Manny (it's not happening), Schilling, Beckett and Foulke all get injured and Trot Nixon does too, sure,"

My point is that those assumptions aren't far fetched. What will probably unfold is that a few of things will be happen (e.g. Clement will be good but Trot, Schilling, and Beckett will spend significant time on the DL). And that in itself is very bad news for the RS. Like I said before, I would love to see someone compare our opening day lineup to the RS's lineup. Offensively, the O's lineup is just as good if not better. Once you factor in injuries, the RS are in big trouble.

by birdman on Dec 22, 2005 3:14 AM EST up reply actions

re:

Offensively, the O's lineup is just as good if not better.

No, it really isn't.

They're replacing Damon with Mark Loretta, not Adam Stern or Jeremy Reed. The Boston infield was HORRIBLE offensively last year (outside of Mueller), Nixon was injured, and they STLL led the league in runs scored very easily.

They have to replace Renteria? Big deal, he was awful. The same goes for Millar. Youkilis could easily replace Mueller's bat, and Lowell should be able to handle Millar's contributions if he bounces back at all. If he doesn't, they've got Andy Marte.

Once you factor in injuries, the RS are in big trouble.

They had a lot of them last year and won 95 games. Do we not factor in injuries for the Orioles? Mora is injury-prone. Gibbons is injury-prone. Ramon Hernandez is injury-prone. Bedard is injury-prone.

The Orioles lineup being good is still quite the myth, I see. They aren't good. They finished 10th in runs scored last year and have not in any way upgraded themselves offensively. They were not a good offensive team for the vast majority of the season and they do not figure to be one this year. And Manny + Ortiz + Varitek craps all over Tejada + Mora + Roberts (because those are our three best hitters) in such a fashion that it's not even worth discussing.

I love the O's and I hate the Red Sox, but I think you're really stretching on this. The best offense in the AL lost its leadoff hitter, one other solid hitter and then some crap. They've replaced the leadoff hitter and the other solid hitter with Loretta and Youkilis. There's a chance if they get Coco Crisp that they could be better offensively. The Orioles finished tenth and have added a 40-year old man that hit three home runs and a catcher who we got for his glove and gamecalling. We will not be scoring a lot of runs this season. The Red Sox likely will be in the top five again - along with New York, Texas, Cleveland and Toronto, which was the top five this season.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2005 3:50 AM EST up reply actions

O's versus RS

Loretta replacing Damon is a downgrade. I wouldn't characterize Varitek, Mueller or Renteria (3/5 of the infield) as being horrible offensively last year. Horrible is something I would reserve to Newhan. Renteria was average in comparison to other SS and Mueller/Varitek both had respectable seasons last year. Now replace Cora with Renteria and Lowell with Mueller. Counter in another year of aging for Varitek who's hitting the famous age line where catchers decline. Youkilis has never played full time. His numbers will take a dip once he's exposed on a regular basis. You don't think that'll represent a loss of offensive production? Granted Lowell is bound get better because it's hard for him to get any worse than last year. But I much rather than Mueller than Lowell. I won't comment on Crisp because they haven't traded for him yet. The RS will rank in the middle of the pack next year in terms of offensive production. I just don't know how they'll reproduce their offensive production with their new guys. There is no way in hell they'll finish in the top five.

"The Orioles lineup being good is still quite the myth, I see. They aren't good. "

I never said the O's lineup was good. I said our infield was good which I stand by.

"Manny + Ortiz + Varitek craps all over Tejada + Mora + Roberts (because those are our three best hitters) in such a fashion that it's not even worth discussing."

Manny / Ortiz are better but craps over? It's bit extreme. Manny/Ortiz craps over the Devil Ray's 3/4 hitters but not the O's.

by birdman on Dec 22, 2005 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

re:

Millar, Renteria and Bellhorn were all really bad and unproductive. If Lowell, Cora and Youkilis can't replace ably replace guys who had OPS+s of 100, 91 and 83, then sure, they're in trouble. But these guys are really not hard to replace.

As for Manny/Ortiz v Mora/Tejada, well:

Manny: .292/.388/.594, 45 HR, 156 OPS+
Ortiz: .300/.397/.604, 47 HR, 161 OPS+
Tejada: .304/.349/.515, 26 HR, 133 OPS+
Mora: .283/.348/.474, 27 HR, 122 OPS+

It's really not close.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2005 4:45 PM EST up reply actions

RS versus the O's

"Millar, Renteria and Bellhorn were all really bad and unproductive. If Lowell, Cora and Youkilis can't replace ably replace guys who had OPS+s of 100, 91 and 83, then sure, they're in trouble. But these guys are really not hard to replace."

I didn't address Millar and Belhorn because I concede that they suck. But like I said before, Cora and Lowell won't reproduce Renteria and Mueller. Varitek is on the wrong side of 30 and Youkilis is likely to decline once he's exposed as a full time players. So yes, maybe Millar, Renteria, Mueller aren't hard to replace but my point is that the RS have replaced these guys with players who won't replicate their production. I mean Alex Cora!

As far the Manny/Ortiz thing goes, it's a matter of semantics. Like I said, Manny/Ortiz is better than Tejada or Mora by a good step as you show but craps all over is unfair. I could post the numbers of the Devil Rays 3 and 4 hitters last season and you'll see craps all over.

While I'm in a Johnny Damon thread, camdenchat posters might enjoy this.

http://drop.thesoundofrane.com/viewtopic.php?t=749&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc& highlight=&sid=2813cc01baf60857d7048dfb5c7d27fb

by birdman on Dec 22, 2005 5:01 PM EST reply actions

D-Rays/O's/Red Sox

The D-Rays being even worse doesn't make the Tejada/Mora v Ortiz/Manny comparison any closer than it is. Yes the Devil Rays are bad. Then again Gomes' 348 at-bats were better than Tejada or Mora.

Alex Cora's 2004 (in Dodger Stadium) matches up quite nicely to Renteria's 2005.

Renteria, '05: .276/.335/.385
Cora, '04: .264/.364/.380

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2005 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

D-Rays versus O's

Given that there is a lot of worse combos than Mora/Tejada, I just trying to say that craps all over a bit strong word. Like I said, we've splitting hairs at this point.

As far as Cora goes, compare career numbers. I'm guessing Renteria is a good bit better.

by birdman on Dec 22, 2005 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

No

Ortiz and Ramrirez take a huge long shit all over Mora and Tejada all day every day baby,

AVG HR OBP SLG OPS RBI
Mora 283 27 348 474 822 88
Tejada 304 26 349 515 864 98

Ortiz 300 47 397 604 1001 148
Ramirez 292 45 388 594 982 144

Granted there are worse combinations than Mora/Tejada Ortiz/Ramirez crap all over it

by Larry Bigbie3 on Dec 22, 2005 8:30 PM EST up reply actions

and

i know thats a shitty chart

by Larry Bigbie3 on Dec 22, 2005 8:30 PM EST up reply actions

more hair splitting

OK, we've really splitting hairs but this is fun so I'll play. The words excellent, mediocre, and "craps all over" are only meaningful in a continum relative to each other. Without a doubt, Ortiz/Ramirez would be considered "excellent" in comparing offensive performance to other AL player combo. Now let's compare, Ortiz/Ramirez to the 3rd base/SS combo from the KC Royals.

Teahan - .246 .309 .376 .685
Berroa - .270 .305 .375 .680

Ortiz/Ramirez craps all over Teahan and Berroa. To say that they also crap all over Tejada and Mora, sullies or dilutes the meaning of the fine phrase, "craps all over." The phrase, "craps all over" suggests a wide gulf in performance. As I said before, Manny and Ortiz are better than Tejada and Mora. In fact, Manny/Ortiz are better than a any team player combos in the AL (except for maybe A-Rod/Sheff). It's more accurate to say, Manny/Ortiz are a clear step over above Mora/Tejada. To say that Manny/Ortiz craps all over is like saying that the 2005 Roger Clemens craps all over 2005 Johan Santana. Yes, Clemens was clearly better than Santana on many different levels but to say that he craps all over Santana demeans Johan's fine 2005 season. Similarly, to say that Manny/Ortiz craps all over Tejada and Mora demeans their fine seasons especially in light of the Royals 3B/SS combo. Unless you can convince me that the Tejada's and Mora's performance is comparable to Teahan's and Berroa's, let's not render the phrase "craps all over" meaningless.

by birdman on Dec 22, 2005 9:28 PM EST up reply actions

No

Ortiz/Ramriez just kill Teahan and Berroa with a sack of door knobs. Their is that better

by Larry Bigbie3 on Dec 23, 2005 1:02 AM EST up reply actions

really?

I personally think being crapped is worse than a sack of door knobs. To each his own I guess. This conversation is getting weird.

by birdman on Dec 23, 2005 1:33 AM EST up reply actions

it's typical of commentary today though.

player A can't just be better than player B, he needs to completely destroy player B. a quarterback can't just be really good, he has to be HISTORICALLY GREAT. the orioles can't just be described as a team in turmoil or without a sense of direction, they need to be derided as A COMPLETE MESS, coming off of THE WORST SEASON IN BASEBALL HISTORY. it starts with the announcers and trickles down to reporters and then to bloggers and internet posters. nobody has any context anymore, it all needs to be embellished in hopes that someone will want to read your sensationalized headlines. so it would be impossible in this day and age for manny and ortiz to just be measurably better than mora and tejada, they of course would need to be described as "crapping all over them." this isn't an original thought obviously, i've heard a lot of people making the same complaints about the state of analysis in sports. by the way, the left side of the o's infield plays borderline gold glove defense, while ortiz and manny are useless and poor, respectively, in the field.

by joet on Dec 23, 2005 10:43 AM EST up reply actions

re:

by the way, the left side of the o's infield plays borderline gold glove defense, while ortiz and manny are useless and poor, respectively, in the field.

Unfortunately for Mora and Tejada we were talking about offense

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 23, 2005 10:57 AM EST up reply actions

re:

Riiiight. It was a throwaway BSing comment in a blog message board discussion. Have some context.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 23, 2005 11:30 AM EST up reply actions

last comment

I took it as a throwaway comment as well which is why I said we're splitting hairs. Unlike say a regular newspaper column, people spontaneously post in a blog situation so I try to give people some liberty in interpreting their post within reasonable bounds. OK, enough of this thread, the image of Ortiz doing any type of crapping is making me nauseous.

by birdman on Dec 23, 2005 1:57 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Johnny Damon site

That's precisely the kind of behavior that provokes a deeply satisfying round of schadenfreude. Yep, stuff like that and the pablum where a grown man writes about struggling to decide whether to name his dog Damon, Ortiz, or Manny. I hope he picked Damon.

Note: The O's are well beyond provoking schadenfreude. They probably fall somewhere in the pity range.

"We are coming back strong next year ... I know you have heard that tune before, but this time it will literally come true." Peter Angelos 09/2005

by drj on Dec 22, 2005 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

Schadenfreude

The O's Schadenfreude; no. Sturm und drang; maybe. Fear and loathing; just Angelos, never the Birds.

by el gordo on Dec 23, 2005 12:01 AM EST reply actions

actually you know what

When I said "craps on" I didn't mean it derogatorily toward Mora/Tejada - I meant it out of respect to how good Ortiz and Ramirez are as a 1-2 punch. I might should have said that earlier but I didn't. Oh well. My bad.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 23, 2005 7:43 AM EST reply actions

Crap?

Would you trade Mora and Tejada even up for Manny and Ortiz. Maybe but you'd have to think about it. Personally I wouldn't do it I value their defense.

by el gordo on Dec 23, 2005 11:48 AM EST reply actions

I would

by Larry Bigbie3 on Dec 23, 2005 12:09 PM EST up reply actions

re:

Well let's assume that money is not an object and they're all under the same contract length - things of that nature.

Yes. I value the gloves, too, (and again defense was not part of the earlier conversation) and they're both very good in the field. But Ramirez and Ortiz are phenomenal hitters and total difference makers offensively. The entire lineup changes due to their presence.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 23, 2005 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

trade

Like SC said, assuming comparable salary, without a doubt I would trade them. The trade hurts the O's defense but I'll always sacrifice defense for offense especially with the O's pitching.

by birdman on Dec 23, 2005 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

Thats what I ment

i don't think we could afford Manny and Ortiz for Mora and Tejada straight up. And defense dosen't win championships when you don't have one slightly above average starter.

by Larry Bigbie3 on Dec 23, 2005 2:00 PM EST up reply actions