Tejada/Zito/Prior/Bedard rumor

by Scott Christ on Dec 27, 2005 5:29 PM EST in News & Rumors

I guess the newest thing is:

CHC gets: SS Miguel Tejada
OAK gets: LHP Erik Bedard
BAL gets: LHP Barry Zito and RHP Mark Prior

1. Why would Beane give up Zito and get only Bedard in return?

I guess because Bedard could be every bit as good as Zito and isn't a free agent after this year.

2. Does this unlikely trade make the Orioles better?

I'm not so sure about that. Zito will have a lot of interest on the free agent market after this year, a lot of it based on name value, and chances are not great he'd want to stay in Baltimore. If Prior is healthy he's one of the best pitchers in baseball and would still be a great building block.

3. Who would play shortstop?

I do not know. Considering how much the Cubs think of Prior (and rightly so, it can be argued) we would be unlikely to convince them to include Ronny Cedeno, who could be a pretty damn good player and would be a better option than anyone in our system right now. More important than just "who plays shortstop" is "who replaces Tejada's bat?" We're already weak in the outfield and at first base and the market has thinned greatly. With Tejada gone you'd be looking at a lineup relying very heavily on Brian Roberts (who, in this case, it should be noted could be a fluke), a declining Melvin Mora and inconsistent and injury-prone Jay Gibobns. We didn't score many runs to begin with, and taking Tejada out of the lineup would be bad news.

Then again, you're looking at this rotation:

RHP Mark Prior
LHP Barry Zito
RHP Daniel Cabrera
LHP Bruce Chen
RHP Rodrigo Lopez

And that's an actual rotation. So, I dunno. I doubt we'll see this go through or even get very close to going through, but it's always fun to speculate.

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Trade

I'd have to believe that these names are just the principle players and there would be others involved, especially on the receiving end for Oakland. It really is fun to speculate. It could really be expanded to be large, along these lines:

Cubs get: Tejada, Maine, Fiorentino

A's get: Bedard, J.Lopez, Patterson

O's get: Prior, Zito, Pie, Ohlman, Kielty, D.Meyer, J.Cruz

That may be asking too much but if you break it down, it seems reasonably fair all around. Oakland would probably insist on getting Pie instead of Patterson (but I'd like to see him come to the O's).

As far as shortstop, we'd be competing with the Red Sox to get Lugo (trade) or A.Gonzalez (free agent, Marlins). Where does the offense come from is right. Maybe this would free up pitching to trade for hitting (Huff) or signing F.Thomas. Again, as you indicated, its fun to consider.

by delbird on Dec 27, 2005 7:30 PM EST reply actions

You must be out of your mind!

There is no way that Tejeda and Bedard are worth all of that. First of all, Prior and Zito are top tier pitchers. Tejada is great but there is no way that he will get you that in return. Billy Beane is not going to give up Zito, Kielty, and two good young arms for an injury prone pitcher, an overpaid DH, and a couple of low rated prospects. Got to be a realist buddy. And as Pie, the Cubs will not include Pie in any deal that includes Prior. That's way too much to give up!

by trumac on Dec 28, 2005 8:56 AM EST up reply actions

Not really

The Prior/Zito to the O's was already part of the rumor in national newspapers. Adding Meyer and Cruz would be a chance for the A's to unload a couple of failures from the Tim Hudson trade, and recoup something from it. Meyer was hurt last year and is a question mark, while Cruz was banished to the minors. Kielty is a spare part for the A's but would have become a starter with the O's (prior to a potential Burnitz signing). The inclusion of Pie would be the biggest question from my proposal. It may have been pie in the sky dreaming. The rest is more reasonable. Probably swapping out Pie with Patterson makes it more logical, with the A's getting Pie and the O's getting Patterson. For the O's, this trade would provide the two top of the rotation starters they covet, plus some spare parts with the potential to rebound into quality parts. Unfortunately, since Zito declared he would not sign an extention with the O's, this is all mute now.

by delbird on Dec 28, 2005 1:31 PM EST up reply actions

Thomas

Why not go ahead and sign Thomas regardless. And while we're at it sign Preston Wilson. Then at least there will be an offensive upgrade. We shouldn't take Zito unless we can negotiate an extention.

by el gordo on Dec 27, 2005 10:08 PM EST reply actions

Unfortunately

Thomas is no longer a possiblity after signing Conine unless the O's trade Javy.

by birdman on Dec 27, 2005 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

Not so

Conine, as explained by Perlozzo in a Sun article, will likely platoon at 1B, LF, and DH with the other people at those respective positions. While it may work out that he'll get a lot of 1B starts, it's not guaranteed. He could be the everyday LF with Byrnes gone (I cringe at the thought of Newhan out there every day). Unless we sign an OF, or Majewski makes a good Spring Training impression, I see Conine in LF.

That said, Thomas could still play first.

by therobotian on Dec 27, 2005 11:53 PM EST up reply actions

In that case

sign the Big Hurt. A full time or near full time DH job may keep him healthy. Thomas still possesses a lot of power if he can stay on the field. This would mean that Javy would have to spend a lot time at first (or I guess LF). I think Javy has expressed reluctance to play first during a walk year but if the O's win it should quiet him down. And if the O's suck, trade him.

by birdman on Dec 28, 2005 1:12 AM EST up reply actions

re:

I hate to say this as I'm a proponent of signing Thomas, but on what planet would it be a good idea to run out a 260-pound, 38-year old man with achy everything that hasn't been healthy in two years to play the field every day? Thomas cannot play first base anymore. He can still flat out rake, and I truly believe that, but giving him a glove more than once or twice a month is asking for trouble.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2005 2:29 AM EST up reply actions

Javey

Trade him!

by el gordo on Dec 27, 2005 11:51 PM EST reply actions

Some sense to this.

All this crazy Cubs talk is ridiculous. First of all the thought of pawning off GUARANTEED OFFENSE for four years, at $12 million, in Tejada for the injury prone Prior is laughable. It is actually absolutely ri-goddamn-diculous. The very fact that many Cubs fans think this is a bad deal for them is even funnier. I don't care what Prior's K/9 is...I do not want to be sitting around reading about the guy's doctor's appoinments for years into the future, a la Glenn Davis.

Zambrano, plus prospects, is worth it...but only if his contract is for three years. Two years, no way.

Bedard for Zito for one year is a waste of time. We're not winning the World Series in 2006...and if by some happy twist of fate we're in the hunt at the trade deadline we can think about that trade then, not now.

If this Ramirez + Clement thing is for real...I say HELL YES! Better offense and a (potentially) good starter? We'd be crazy to walk away from that.

by Jonnypops on Dec 28, 2005 12:54 AM EST reply actions

No Sense to that.

There is no way the Cubs will trade Zambrano for any one not named Pujols or A-Rod (which wouldnt happen)! And Prior is not injury prone, he is accident prone. He has had two freak injuries. I think that you are overvaluing your boy Miggy here. In the game of baseball, pitching wins championships (See the previous 3 World Series Champions) or better yet look at the contracts that pitchers have received the last two years. The price of pitching is at an all time high. So go ahead and keep Tejeda and enjoy 4th place or atleast until the D-Rays catch up with you. I'll take my chances with Prior and Big Z, and will see who makes it to the playoffs first!

by trumac on Dec 28, 2005 9:12 AM EST up reply actions

ok

So go ahead and keep Neifi Perez and have young name pitchers that get injured every year and enjoy being a similar also-ran.

Any potential deal in this situation isn't about face value of Player X versus the face value of Player Y and maybe Player Z in addition. It's about leverage, and the Orioles have all of it. And I'm not talking about my opinion or yours -- clearly, Jim Hendry wants Tejada, and if Hendry wants Tejada, he's going to have to pony up. That's all.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2005 2:28 PM EST up reply actions

Hendry may want him, but...

That doesnt mean he will mortgage the farm for Tejeda, and that is what the O's are asking for. And as for leverage, you can think that if you want, but reality is that if the O's dont show a want/need to improve the team Tejeda will push to be traded anyways. You saying that Hendry has no leverage sounds like an assumption to me with all of these ridiculous articles being floated in both Chicago and Baltimore. The fact remains that the NL Central got weaker this year, and with solid pitching the Cubs can win the division. The AL East, however, got stronger and the best the O's can hope for is 4th place! So your so called leverage is just that so called.

by trumac on Dec 28, 2005 2:54 PM EST up reply actions

re:

but reality is that if the O's dont show a want/need to improve the team Tejeda will push to be traded anyways

No, that's not reality, that's an assumption based on what you know of the situation, the same as me assuming the Orioles have the leverage based on what we've heard of the trade talks. If they didn't have the leverage they would probably have already accepted Prior and been done with it. This is not a deal that has to be made and the Orioles aren't the ones that could a shortstop like Tejada to make themselves bona fide contenders. (The Orioles need a lot more for that.)

The fact remains that the NL Central got weaker this year, and with solid pitching the Cubs can win the division. The AL East, however, got stronger and the best the O's can hope for is 4th place! So your so called leverage is just that so called.

Um, not that I disagree with your assessment for either team, but I don't see what this has to do with it. The Orioles being bad does not change that they are the team that controls Miguel Tejada, who is the player that possibly makes the team he would go to much better.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2005 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

or

he could be the player that goes to another team and makes them worse.

am I mistaken or is he complaining about wanting to go to a team that is going to win? Well, a team with a #1 starter and a bunch of scrubs isn't going to be winning a lot of balgames... even with 25 homeruns from shortstop, so who's to say miggy won't whine when the cubs are 10 games below at the all-star break.

Also, am I mistaken or has the name Tejada come up in some steriod discussions. I'm sure the prople of Baltimore are more familiar with this fact than us Chicago-folk but I remember Mr. Palmero saying something about Tejada giving him the "B-12" shot that was mysteriously laden with anabolic steriods... and then retract his story later. I also remember that Tejada sucked the rest of the season after that came out. Hmmmmm..

If you can't tell... i'm a cubs fan. As a cubs fan I pledge to renounce my team if this deal is made. Giving up a 25 yr old pitcher who is one 1-2 out-pitch away from becoming a top 5 starter in the MLB for a shortstop who will give you 25-30 hr, .280 ba, a bad attitude, and steriod baggage is rediculous.

Tejada is 2 seasons away from putting up Sosa '05 numbers.

not to mention 25+ E6's...

garbage...

by Jerry Burnatterson on Dec 28, 2005 3:52 PM EST up reply actions

Tejada

"so who's to say miggy won't whine when the cubs are 10 games below at the all-star break."

Exactly, which is why I've said before that I'm tired of players whining and demanding a trade when the team loses. He said should put in a trade clause into his contract to protect himself.

"Also, am I mistaken or has the name Tejada come up in some steriod discussions."

We've already had several huge threads on here. A lot people basically said Tejada comes out fishy but you can't draw anything conclusive. And Tejada was already slumping before Palmiero accusations came out so the two aren't tied.

"Giving up a 25 yr old pitcher who is one 1-2 out-pitch away from becoming a top 5 starter in the MLB for a shortstop who will give you 25-30 hr, .280 ba, a bad attitude, and steriod baggage is rediculous."

Well, I'm hearing different things about Prior's injury history. I've heard some people say he has arm problems and other people say he's had freak injuries. I don't follow the Cubs so I have zero clue about which one is true. If it's the the former, this isn't a stupid deal for the Cubs. A pitcher with an history of injury problems is a liability for the team. If the later, then yes I agree that it's a bad trade but I think you carry it too far especially in your characterization of Tejada ("shortstop who will give you 25-30 hr, .280 ba, a bad attitude, and steriod baggage is rediculous."). Tejada does not have a bad attitude and it's ridiculous, borderline offensive that you label with steriod baggage. His vials tested clean. A man is innocent until proven guilty the last time I checked. Yes, his enthusiasm for the team dropped the last month and half of the season and his trade demands don't sit well with me but overall Tejada has brought a lot energy and spirit to the O's. Even Santa Claus would feel a bit down given the crap the O's went through last season. And overall his last two seasons with the O's have been terrific. There haven't been many better SS the last two years... if any. 25-30 HRs... as if that's a bad thing for a SS!!!

by birdman on Dec 28, 2005 5:29 PM EST up reply actions

leverage

As far as leverage goes, the team is under no obligation to trade Tejada. He could force a trade either mailing it in during the season or start making absurd, derogatory comments about Flanagan/Angelos to force a trade but until that happens, the O's are not in a weak position to trade Tejada.

by birdman on Dec 28, 2005 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

Prior and injuries

Like I said, I don't follow the Cubs so I don't know if he's injury prone or accident prone but I did run across this article. It suggests that accident prone is not necessarily the whole story.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x27-lad1.htm

by birdman on Dec 28, 2005 5:35 PM EST up reply actions

Hmmm....

I'm not sure how credible Marshall is (the article indicates that he seems to have some eccentric ideas), but he also lays part of the blame on the Cubs pitching coach. So if you take Marshall's claims at face value (which I'm not sure is a good idea), it could be that all Prior needs is a different pitching coach, and if he came to Baltimore, he would have the best.

My guess is that there is a reason the Os are pushing for Zambrano instead though.

by rebop on Dec 28, 2005 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

Okay "Tru"boy

For starters there's no need for your elementary lessons about pitching being what wins the World Series. Baltimore fans know this because there are actually a good number of us who can remember it in action in the 70s and in '83. As for the last time the Cubs won the big show I'm not even sure my grandfather was alive...and I doubt there are very many people who aren't in intensive care in Chicago that even barely remember it. So keep your trash talk to yourself and go find some new diversion...like a goat, or a Bartman to take out your pathetic woes for your record setting loser of a team out on.

Secondly, as SC says...what's being discussed here are simply the rumors that are flying in the national press regarding trades. If you don't like them...that's nice. And? You might be better off voicing your frustrations on Bleed Cubbie Blue or down at the local bar than trying to start problems on here.

by Jonnypops on Dec 28, 2005 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks Jonnypops

I greatly enjoyed your post. And I don't where the other Cub fan gets off saying that, "Tejada is 2 seasons away from putting up Sosa '05 numbers." Completely baseless, trash talking.

by birdman on Dec 28, 2005 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

I think it's hysterical....

that Tejada and his folks would even consider going to the Cubs because he's unhappy playing in Bawlmer because all we do is lose? Can he veto this trade?
The front office should bury this guy for demanding to be "out of Baltimore" since we're not dedicated to winning. say trade his ass to the Cubs..or the Rockies..or maybe even the Royals...
Excuse me for a minute there Mr B12 phonecard, but aren't the Cubs the team with the current longest futility streak in major league sports?
Haven't the Cubbies gone like 100 years since they won a World Series?
Does this shortstop think that he is the savior of all flailing teams?
Flanagan should send his ass packing to the worst team in the majors that isn't in our division. Then he could be Mr Unhappy somewhere else.
I do not agree with him ending up in the AL East.
Send him packing..to a loser worse than us.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Dec 28, 2005 7:54 AM EST reply actions

I hear you. But...

...that is good deal in Ramirez/Clement. It's just gonna take the realization that in dealing with Ramirez we're going to have to think of him as a child and not listen to everything he says. You can't be taking Manny all seriously...just concentrate on the offensive production and the whole city will be happy. Very happy. And big deal if we have to then face Tejada 19 times a year. I'd rather face him 19 times a year than Manny...and if you don't agree then look at those numbers.

Also I'm not sure which loser team has the stuff we'd want in a trade for B12 Phonecard. This guy's contract is the hottest thing in play right now...and we have to get something outstanding. That Ramirez/Clement deal is the best thing I've heard thus far. Although Zambrano plus prospects would be pretty good too.

by Jonnypops on Dec 28, 2005 8:13 AM EST up reply actions

Why get hysterical?

The best shortstop in baseball (except for the one playing thirdbase in NY) makes a couple comments and some fans are ready to banish him? I can't blame the man for speaking the truth -- the Orioles' management stinks. Tejada is the type of player that I want the team to keep and build around.

A realistic goal for 2006 is to work the young outfielders and young pitchers onto the major league roster during the season. Get their feet wet and prepare for 2007.

by 3RunHomer on Dec 28, 2005 8:40 AM EST up reply actions

Wet feet?

Wow, watching the young outfielders and pitchers get their feet wet really makes me want to run out and spend $70 on a game at OPACY. How long does this ownership think they can string along O's fans. This offseason is an insult following that lie(I know you've heard this tune before.....). I certainly don't blame Tejada for for feeling the same way I do(though I've been putting up with Pistol Pete a lot longer than he has). I do scratch my head at B12phone cards. Clement and Manny for him makes me stop and think and certainly makes me reconsider my $70.

by el gordo on Dec 28, 2005 12:43 PM EST reply actions