Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Chan Sung Jung Wins Thriller Over Dustin Poirier

Community Opinion: Our Man Mazz

A comment in one of the Tigers game threads that defended Lee Mazzilli got me thinking about our skipper. Being honest, most of the Mazz discussion here has been negative. He's usually brought up when we question something he does, and rarely applauded when the team is playing well, which has been most of this season.

The thing is, I've never seen much real discussion about our manager. He seems to pretty much go unnoticed for the most part. National writers don't care about him, he doesn't get loose-lipped, doesn't throw out a lot of soundbytes. He is very comparable to the man he probably learned a lot from about managing, Joe Torre. They even both do that hands down the pants bit in the dugout.

So here's one for the peanut gallery. I want to hear, in any amount of detail, how you guys feel about the job Lee has done from last season, and how you think he's improved (if he has) this season. Feel free to let loose either singing his praises if you love him, or bashing him if you think he's not the man for the job. I want to get a read on what Orioles fans think about Mazzilli, because I haven't really been able to yet.

Comment 13 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Mazz
I'm still a little up in the air on Mazz.  I think he could be a great manager.  I definitely think he has the potential.  As for the success of the current birds, I'm not so sure it is a direct result of Mazz's managing.  I think it may be more about the team maturing and the few big acquisitions in the past couple off-seasons.  Don't get me wrong, I think Mazz seems like a great guy, I just haven't seen where he could be considered personally responsible for turning the team around.  If I could say that about anyone on the coaching staff, I would have to say Ray Miller has done more to contribute to the turn around than Mazz has.  Give Mazz a year or two more and I think he'll come around.  He'll get more into umpires faces to protect his players and team.  That's not his "style" yet, but as he grows and learns, it will become more and more a part of his game.  Some times when a coach gets thrown out of game it gets the team fired up (especially a team with Miggy), and he'll realize that one day when the team comes out flat.  I just kind of hope its sooner than later.

by dayzd toe on Jun 7, 2005 7:43 AM EDT reply actions  

There was an article in the Sun...
by Laura Vecsey discussing this. I have to say I agree with much of what she had to say. I would like to see a little more passion from Mazz, and more willingness to back up his players when bad calls are made.

I was at the game (sitting on the fist base side) in Boston where Steve Kline failed to cover first on a grounder by David Ortiz. I was shocked that Mazz didn't come out to argue the call. Despite being poor defense by Kline, he clearly made the tag on Ortiz well before he reached first base (like 4 steps before). I kept expecting Mazz to come out, but he never did. I just figured there was some arcane rule involved that I was not aware of--turns out there wasn't.

I think the players need to feel like the manager has their back in a situation like that. It is impossible to imagine Earl Weaver not going out there and getting in the ump's face. Sometimes its just what's called for, even if you are a "laid-back" manager.

All that said, I think otherwise it is pretty hard to fault Mazz's managing this year. He is clearly a smart baseball guy, and learned a lot about managing from Torre. He is a smart guy and a good study. Of course it is always easy to second guess certain descisions in retrospect. For example, it is pretty easy for me to say, "Under no circumstances should Bruce Chen be allowed to pitch into the seventh inning." But of course Mazz has to balance that against protecting his bullpen. Still, Mazz please don't let Chen pitch the seventh.

by rebop on Jun 7, 2005 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

The bullpen
I don't know if you guys have been following Buster Olney's blog on ESPN.com, but he did a piece about a week back on bullpen use. Mazz has BJ Ryan on pace to throw 90+ innings, which is like 30 more than he's ever thrown in one year. That is not good. Mazz seems like a really nice guy. I like the fact that he doesn't talk much and keeps things in house--he's got that Joe Torre mums the word thing going, which is nice. But, he needs to learn how to manage a pitching staff. Perhaps, Ray Miller is doing this, but ultimately its Mazz's responsibility. He seems to have a quick trigger with some guys and never lets the middle relievers throw more than one inning, even if they are pitching well. But, over uses other guys like Julio and Ryan. Have other people noticed the same thing, or am I talking crazy.

by Eddie Eddie Eddie on Jun 7, 2005 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Kline & Reed
It's not Maz's fault.  Kline and Reed are horrible.  They can't be counted on at all right now.

by hugo @ Camden Chat on Jun 7, 2005 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
The only reason Julio and Ryan are getting so much work is because they are all we can count on.  I would like to see more of John Parrish and less of the Steves.

By the way Ray Miller is a genius.

by intheRIC on Jun 7, 2005 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nevertheless
Mazz should be giving Parrish and Williams more innings because we are going to burn out BJ and he won't be there in August/September/October (knock on wood) when we need him.  

What happenned to Kline? He was an absolute beast for the Cards. Is it the new league or did Satan return his soul?

by Eddie Eddie Eddie on Jun 7, 2005 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kline
His four seasons in St. Louis were a split between dominance (2001, 2004) and being "merely" above average (2002, 2003). Now that doesn't explain why, at 32, he's pitching the worst baseball of his major league career, but he could very easily turn this season into one comparable to his 02/03 numbers, and I think there's still a decent chance of that happening.

by Scott Christ on Jun 7, 2005 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Middle Ground between Hargove and Bowa?
I think Mike Hargrove was a smart baseball guy, a genuinely good guy and a positive locker room presence -- but, after 5 straight losing seasons and watching him sit passively in the dugout game after game after game, I think that, although the Orioles' lack of success can be more pinned on the front office than the manager during his tenure, it was time for Grover to go.

We were told that Mazzilli wowed Flanabeattie and Angelos during the interview process, going from a last-minute, dark horse candidate to getting the job.  He was touted as a great baseball mind who would bring passion back to the club.

Instead, he seems to be what he is, an inexperienced manager who's struggling with pitching matchups and putting together a lineup, which happens to be the most talented Orioles' lineup in years.  

Passion?  Never (or very rarely) argues a call or sticks up for his player(although a poster on Birds in the Belfry thinks Mazzilli just might not like Steve Kline, in the recent example.  And really, who DOES like Kline at this point?), and sits silently, motionlessly, Hargrove-like in the dugout all game long.  

I'm not sure that a real firey manager will work with today's players.  I lived in Philly for a few years from 1999-2004, and so I got to watch The Larry Bowa show on a daily basis.  I think Bowa was fall the guy for a bad regime there, but his temper and his personality made the team worse.  There's got to be a happy medium between the Bowa (and maybe Weaver is the same mold -- I'm too young to really give a good opinion) model and the Hargrove/Charlie Manuel/Lee Mazzilli-nice guy quiet manager type.

On the other hand -- Ray Miller says Mazzilli's a great communicator with the players, and is very encouraging and they're very respectful of him.  He might be doing a great job behind the scenes, we just can't see him doing it. (Do the results thus far speak for themselves?)

I'm not a huge fan of his handling of the roster.  How long will Sosa bat 4th or 5th when he's killing us and Raffy is red hot?  How long can he keep trotting Kline or Reed out there in pressure situations?  Why did it take so long to figure out that Mike Dejean sucked?  Why do you use stinky Kline every other day and let John Parrish and even Bauer, while he was here, rot out there?

To be fair, Maz can only work with what he's given, and injuries are taking their toll, no doubt.  He's also got a coaching staff that includes Rick Dempsey and Sam Perlozzo, two guys who wanted the job that went to Maz.  Now, Perlozzo is suppossedly an old friend of Maz's, and Dempsey, I hope, isn't secretly making life more difficult for the manager, but still, probably not an ideal coaching staff situation from Mazzilli's point of view.

It's hard to tell how much Maz influences the personality of the team, which seems to be a lot more confident and fun than in prior years, because I think Tejada brings such a fire, and also the fun personality to the team, that I give him most of the credit for the team's new persona, which, along with Ray Miller's work with the pitcher's, I consider the key reasons for the improvement of the team.

But (sorry for the novel) I think baseball is the toughest of all the major sports to tell what kind of effect the coach has.  You can easily tell what kind of effect Bill Belichek, Andy Reid, Bill Parcells have on their team, just because I think the game plan plays a bigger role, and also, it's more over-analyzed.  In baseball, is strategy as big a part of the game, or is it more just execution?

Maz seems like a smart guy, and a nice person, and I do think he can get better in the areas where I'm not a fan.  But, right now, as things stand, I wouldn't be upset if he got fired.  I could be 100 percent wrong -- perhaps Maz is totally responsible for the success of the team, he's just not doing the best at the few aspects of his job that we the fans can see most clearly.

Why not 2005?

by BrianS on Jun 7, 2005 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Good Analysis
I know there are a lot of Mazz haters out there.  And a lot of the hate comes from his perceived lack of passion.  What Mazz doesn't bring in passion and fire, he brings a kind of cool, calm, confident demeanor.  And in tough times, I feel pretty good about Mazz being out manager due to how calm he is.

As for his decision making, he has made plenty of good moves.  He has made his share of mistakes, but so does every other manager.  And SC makes a great point that every decision that backfires on Mazz, he is criticized, and rather harshly too.  However, whenever he makes a good move, he gets no credit whatsoever.  

Also, the players like playing for him, and respect him as well.  And we are winning, which is the most important thing.

By the way, Brian, do you know when Miller said that about Mazz?  Or a link to an article?  I kind of want to use it for when people unnecessarily bash Mazz.

by sportsman885 @ Camden Chat on Jun 7, 2005 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

And One More Thing to Add
Its not like Mazz makes the decisions all by himself.  He does consult his staff.

by sportsman885 @ Camden Chat on Jun 7, 2005 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Linkage
Mazzilli hasn't seemed bothered this spring by the pressure of winning. He seems to be relying more on his coaches, especially Miller, which is essential. "He's one of the best I've seen at communicating," Miller said. And Mazzilli no longer says things like, "This is how we did things with the Yankees," which is good, because no team operates like the Yankees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=2029409

Why not 2005?

by BrianS on Jun 7, 2005 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

TV
I heard it during one of the broadcasts, but I think I saw it in the Sun earlier in the season, too.  Lemme look for a link.
Why not 2005?

by BrianS on Jun 7, 2005 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mazzilli
Mazzilli is a very competent manager it shows
especially with all the injuries & yet we
still keep winning.

I see Mazzilli,s biggest problem starting to
show in the bullpen.I,m not sure we will
hold up over the long haul by depending on
Julio,Kline & Reed.They seem to give up the
long ball to often.

The manager has to use what he has & so far
with the O,s in contention no positive
moves have been made to help out the Bullpen.

Our starters have been great.Lets go B& F
get us some help in the Pen.

by hagersbush on Jun 7, 2005 11:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The SB Nation blog covering the Baltimore Orioles.

Please read our Community Guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Cc_small
Awesome Stuff

Recent FanPosts

Wieters_small
The O's and Early Bullpen Usage
4fgfgjfxe30x64uwibpb59rg9_small
Can we get a broadcasting coach or trainer for Mike Bordick?
Pbr_12_pack_small
Literary Lounge
Openingday2012_small
O-R-I-O-L-E-S! *NOT* Day-O!
Small
Can the Orioles Keep this Up?
Andino_small
My Photos From Rays-O's 5.12.2012
Cc_small
Camden Chat Pick 6 - Weekly Contest
5_small
Xavier Avery: Lead-Off Man of the Future
5_small
Mike Belfiore; Our Compensation for Josh Bell

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Official Sponsor of Camden Chat GameThreads

Tankeray_medium
Tankeray provided by dayzd toe


Bowser

Cc_small Stacey

Koopa Troopas

Baltimore_oriole_avatar_small zknower

P1030831_small 2632

Rainbowsmall_small duck

Esskay_small Eat More Esskay

Youppi-192_small Andrew_G

Goombas

Birdman_small birdman

Thumbnail_small j.q. higgins

Img_0927_small dfa

4840750964_54cdc24eef_small James F

091_small WestcoastO'sFan

2009_june22_philliekid3_small twistedlogic

Yoshi_small PaulFolk