Gameday Thread: Red Sox at O's, 07/07

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 9:02 AM EDT in News & Rumors

                           
     David Wells, LH                 Daniel Cabrera, RH
     (6-4, 5.04)                     (6-7, 5.07)

     SS A Cora                       2B B Roberts
     3B B Mueller                    3B M Mora
     DH D Ortiz                      SS M Tejada
     RF T Nixon                      1B R Palmeiro
     LF K Millar                     DH S Sosa
     1B J Olerud                     RF J Gibbons
     C  D Mirabelli                  CF L Matos
     CF A Stern                      LF E Marrero
     2B M Bellhorn                   C  S Fasano

Hell of a morning to say the least.

Game time is 7:05 on CSN and ESPN.

David Wells has given up more homers (11) than he has walks (10). That's unique. Boomer has also been really streaky this year, with an 8.44 ERA after two starts that got lowered to 3.51, then climbed up as high as 6.81 before coming down to 4.54, and now it's back up to 5.04 after three rocky starts at Cleveland and Philly and in Boston against the Jays.

Cabrera, on the other hand, has hovered in the fives most of the year, but he's threatening to get under that mark for the first time since after his May 14 start at Chicago. Last time he pitched, he gave us exactly what we needed: seven strong innings of shutout ball in a 4-0 win over Cleveland. Well, Danny, we need you again today. And again, it's a tall order against a team that can hit.

The big news in the AL East right now is that when Curt Schilling returns from his rehab assignment in Pawtucket, it will be as a member of the Red Sox bullpen. He's going to make his first relief appearance for the PawSox today, in fact, and then a couple more and take it from there with the big club. No matter what you think of Schilling or the Red Sox, there are not a whole lot of veteran ace starters making $12 million that would do that to help their team.

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cautiously optimistic....

reposted here after i first put it in the "weekend" thread.

i have a lot of hope for this series. the bosox have just lost 5 of 7, so they are struggling too.

people make a lot of our failure in NY, and they should, but we should all remember: chen had a sore toe, and lopez was pitching on 3 days' rest for the first time ever. these are not determining factors, only contributing ones, but they give me something to hang my hat on.

more disturbing was the team's sloppy play. but in the confines of home, with a day off to really look in the mirror, i expectt our guys to respond.

to me, the key will be this first game: if cabrera pitches well and we get some runs early and the offense wakes up, that will help propel us through the weekend. even better, a tight game that we win in the late innings. either way, if we win today, that's a huge weight off our shoulders.

if we lose today, well.... that'll just suck. it doesn't mean we can't get back in it, possibly even split the series, but cabrera is our best pitcher right now, and we need him. it puts lot on his shoulders, alas, but big-time pitchers need to win big-time games, and he needs to get over this idea that he can't beat boston now.

by zknower on Jul 7, 2005 9:51 AM EDT reply actions

Emphasis on cautious

I'll admit I'm having trouble mustering up guarded optimism.

The Red Sox are showing some signs of life. The bats are still alive. Schilling is nearing his return and that has brought a shot of optimism to the Red Sox fans, and you have to figure to the clubhouse as well. Wells can be hot or cold. Never know what you're gonna get. The O's have to somehow hold the bats in check and get to pitchers early. That's my biggest concern. The Sox have no closer right now. Timlin has traditionally been a set up man and has not performed well in the closer role. Embree is right behind Foulke with his ability to throw gasoline on a fire. Given the debacles we've recently witnessed, the odds look long. But we have to do it. I agree, this is a big test for Cabrera. We'll see what he's made of.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Ok - Now The Rant

AwesomeMikeAwesome called me for ranting about the BoSox fans in a different thread. I'm guilty, but I did say it was an out of place post. Well, here's the post in it's proper spot to whip up emotions before the big series*.

I know it's a long shot, but the O's have to win to shut up the Red Sox fans. I'd rather it be done by the O's than anyone else in the world. Here are a few reasons I'm sick and tired of the "Red Sox Nation" (RSN for you uninitiated).

The newly christened Fisk Pole. News item: the Reds beat you the next day. The Fisk Home run was a Pyrrhic victory. Thank you Bill Lee for the lame eephus pitch to Tony Perez*. How about the Bucky Dent Monster Seats? How about the Buckner Base?

"Forgiving" Bill Buckner after hating him for 18 years. The series win unleashed a ton of magnanimity, and RSN has now dug deep into their hearts to "forgive" Grady Little, Calvin Schiraldi, John McNamara, Mike Torrez, etc. etc. etc.

The obsession with Bucky "F'ing" Dent. News item: the Red Sox blew a 14 game lead. I haven't sensed much "forgiveness" here, I guess becasue it was the Yankees.

Whining fans with a martyr complex (we were all supposed to feel very very badly for their years of pain) suddenly transformed into overbearing winners (we're supposed to join in the celebration).

"Yankees Suck" chant. You can be in the middle of a Texas Rangers game and it will kick up. To me, the chant says "we are losers who have been repeatedly spanked for decades by the Yankees". Yankee Suck t-shirts, Yankee Hater hats, and the very obscene Jeter, Posada, etc. t-Shirts. Have some class and define yourself as something other than "Anti-Yankee". You won the series, but what do I now see? "Yankees Still Suck" t-shirts. Extremely lame.

The obsession with Ted Williams as a Red Sox saint. He was a great player and a patriot in war (which one can never criticize). Otherwise, he was not such a savory character. He was booed here in Boston, and his head wouldn't be frozen in some stainless steel vat if he didn't have a misogynist streak in him.

Their self obsession with their baseball brilliance. Do you know that Red Sox really understand how important Dave Robert's steal was in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS? No, I mean they get that it was a pivotal moment. moreso than anyone else. Or that they have Bill James inspired statistics out the wazooh to prove Mark Bellhorn is a solid component of the Red Sox team. Hmm, wait until they start losing, then you'll see the wolves come out and the true nature of RSN.

Dan Shaughnessy's two books: "The Curse of the Bambino", explaining the decades of pain to the self loathing fans. Immediately followed by "Reversing the Curse", a celebration reveling in those quirky lovable idiots led by the boy genius GM.

Bandwagon fans popping up in stadiums across the nation.

Where to start with the overload. Bronson Arroyo's pending CD, guaranteed to be lame. Johnny Damon - Jesus Christ (how can you even comment here). Manny Ramirez - the lovable quirky left fielder, who was put unrestricted waivers as a problem child. Curt Schilling commercials, everywhere. Etc.

*Yeah, this is in jest. The BoSox have been on a roll. But there is a large kernel of truth to the comments about RSN.

* I rooted for the Reds and O's as a kid. My parents moved from Cincinnati to Balto. before I was born. That was a great series.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 10:34 AM EDT reply actions

Don't let it get to you

That dude's a loser. How else do you describe an individual who goes to other team's fan sites just to stir the shit?

I mean, I have no problem with fans of other teams coming here to discuss the Orioles, or even give some genuine insight into their team. But you have to be a pretty insecure loser to come to other teams sites just to taunt opposing fans.

I'd be happiest if the O's shut up the obnoxious Red Sox fans this weekend, but losers like that are best ignored.

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

It doesn't bother me

It doesn't bother me in the least. Seriously. I do all this to stir the pot. Heck, I have lots of practice up here. You wear an Orioles hat in the middle of New England. You must hear the remarks. All I know is it's tough to argue against the above statements.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually...

I don't hear much about it. I wear my O's hats all the time, and almost never hear anything about it. I think I've heard all of one nasty comment, and even that one was more of an attempt to draw me into a conversation. Maybe its because I'm in RI, and not in Boston itself. The last person who talked to me about it was an older black woman who told me how she always hated the Red Sox despite living in RI, and never forgave them for being the last team in MLB to sign a black player. Maybe its because the whole Yankees/Red Sox thing has been so intense the last few years that the O's just fly under the average Red Sox fan's radar. Let's hope that is about to change!

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Hey now..

Fellas, lets maintain our class and composure. We don't want to fall into the same name calling traps they do. Let's be the bigger men.

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

pardon me

But whom did I taunt?

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 7, 2005 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Everyone

Subconsciously, you taunted everyone who's not a Sox fan.

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

it certainly seemed to me that you were taunting drg. I will gladly apologize for my comments if you can explain what of value you think you are bringing to this board. If you are just coming here to "explain" to Orioles fans how wicked awesome your team is, then you are just trolling.

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

re

Well God, I thought maybe his point by point, grossly generalized taking-to-task of all Red Sox fans deserved a response from, you know, a Red Sox fan, especially with the blatant irony of a dude slagging on me for saying the Yankees suck in inappropriate non-Yankee related situations was doing so in a thread about the Yankees on a website about the Orioles. I'm sure it's fun to have a big party and dump on the fans of other teams, meanwhile repeatedly saying how much more classy we are than those people but son I'm here to have a good time and read about the Orioles. And yet, every time I'm reading about the Orioles, somebody has something to say about me (I am of course included in these gross generalizations) or my team, so I respond. And that's trolling? I think maybe if I made a diary post with several points and analyses of why the Orioles suck, then that would be trolling, so then I would suggest if, like that guy said, you subconsciously can't handle there being fans of other teams on the internet, stick to talking about the Orioles and leave other teams alone. Otherwise, you know, you just might have to engage with someone who does not share your opinion.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 7, 2005 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Move on.

Ok. This is a gameday thread so lets move this ranting over to another threat. (See "Fightin' Words")

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not one to go in for gross generalizations...

I live in NE, and I think more than 90% of Red Sox fans are great--they love their team and root for them passionately. On the whole, they are no better or worse than O's fans. (The only fans I have observed that on average seem worse than any other team's are Yankee fans, and even there we are talking about a minority percentage).

Anyway, drj's post was a rant and not meant to be fair, but it probably pointed to some essential truths that you are not comfortable with, which is no doubt why it got under your skin so much. Like me, drj lives in NE, and gets tired of hearing about the Red Sox 24/7, and Camden Chat is an oasis for those of us living in the middle of Red Sox Nation. So it's kind of a pain in the ass to come here and have to deal with Red Sox fans, since this is where we go to escape them (nothing personal, sometimes you just want to be among fans of your own team, and for those of us living in exile, it's hard).

I just don't see what you think you are accomplishing by coming here with "Go Red Sox!" posts. Such posts from an O's fan at Over the Monster would not be taken any better.

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

anyways

I was just responding to an inflammatory post, hardly trolling, and it's interesting that I am an insecure loser when you dudes flip out if somebody doesn't like your team and defends their own, which apparently amounts to taunting. It's hardly as if I popped up out of nowhere to say THE ORIOLES SUCK! ORIOLES FANS ARE GAY MALADJUSTED WEIRDOS! ORANGE IS STUPID. No.

And as for saying "Go Red Sox", that is inflammatory? That is a troll? I am toasting to this game of Base Ball and hoping for a fun and exciting series, though of course I hope my team wins. But in this day and age every win and loss is something to rub in the faces of the losing team's fans and of course definitive proof that they suck and are losers, until tomorrow that is. It's no fun at Yankee Stadium, it's no fun at Citizens Bank Park, and it's no fun when people do it at Fenway. And this idiot behavior is fostered by posts about how all Red Sox fans are dumb because they like Carlton Fisk, or Cubs fans are degenerate losers, or Orioles fans are scummy and illiterate, because then when the Red Sox beat the Orioles, or the Cubs beat the White Sox, or the Orioles beat the Yankees, regular, well-intentioned nose-breathers who just wanted to have a good game of Base Ball are motivated to lord wins and losses over the more irritating fans of the other team. And frankly boss that's not what I'm looking for, so calm the f down, everybody.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 7, 2005 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Congrats

Congratulations everyone. WE have managed to insult the game of baseball and deny the dignity of competition. Let's end this here, say good luck and turn this thread into what it is supposed to be... a gameday thread... so we can talk about the game. Enjoy the contest everyone.

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I think you're taking it too seriously

No one is doing anything to insult the game of baseball or deny the dignity of competition. This is professional sports, not a Sisters of Mercy knitting competition--nothing wrong with a little name calling and bickering. I'm mean it's not like anyone here is behaving like that stupid chowderhead who dumped beer on that idiot Yankee Gary Sheffield's hothead.

And you want to say "good luck"? Forget that, I hope the Red Sox get crushed by the O's and go back to beantown crying through the whole All Star Break. I'm looking forward to seeing "Orioles Suck" bumper stickers all over Red Sox Nation this offseason, and I hope it's another 86 years before they win another Series. I hope John Henry develops a sudden interest in musical theater and uses the money he saves not signing Johnny Damon this offseason to invest in a remake of No, No Nannette. And I hope Red Sox fans spend the next 86 years crying about it.

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

Yeah... screw that!!! I was just trying to be civil... but you're right. Go home cry-babies!!!

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

That's the spirit!

Now let's hope that Cabrera brings his A game tonight to back up our tough talk! Bring it to 'em Danny. We need a big game from you!

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Guys...

I am not responding to anything or anyone in particular here, but, seriously, if you can't handle a Red Sox fan that has a differing opinion than yours (or mine) and does not state it in an inflammatory fashion or insult anyone, then I don't know what to tell you, but I'm not going to ban people just because they aren't Orioles fans.

This is an O's site, yes, but I more than welcome opinions, thoughts, and discussion from fans of the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Royals, Rockies, Pirates, Phillies, Reds, Blue Jays, Devil Rays, White Sox, Tigers, Iowa Cubs, Long Island Ducks or your company softball team. It makes for better discussion. I especially like hearing from fans of our rival teams. If a Sox fan wants to come here and say "Go Sox!" during a series with Boston, then what does that hurt?

Anyway, all I'm saying is chill out, because no one's really done anything yet, and I'd rather you guys hear my thoughts on it before someone does. Again - arguing/debating/whatever is fine, but try not to get insulting about it. If anyone ever goes over the top, it'll be dealt with. No one has, so that's not really a warning or anything.

Alright play ball.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions

weather?

isn't the remains of the hurricane moving in? Do you think the game will be played? I've seen conflicting weather reports. I'm going to tonight's game, i need the rain to hold out at least until the game is over!

by dtran2k3 @ Camden Chat on Jul 7, 2005 10:46 AM EDT reply actions

Report from Downtown

In my comfy office 5 or six blocks north of the Yard right off Eutaw street, it doesn't loko promising out of my window. It's definately not raining, and the sun is trying to shine through the clouds, but for some reason the sky just looks like rain to me. However, if I'm to understand correctly, it's just scattered showers tonight so it's going to be patchy throughout the city.

God darn it, I hope the rain holds off as we former city court law clerks have a revenge match softball game against the evil St. Francis softball team.

by burmart on Jul 7, 2005 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

hoo ray!

Here's to spirited baseball! Go Sox!

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 7, 2005 10:48 AM EDT reply actions

Not to throw a wet blanket on your party but

who cares? I think that there are more important things to worry about, i.e write about, than if a Red Sox fan tries to rile you up. If you ignore him he will go away. It is not as if he is in your face trying to pick a fight, that is a whole different story. To be honest with you I thought that the red sox love fest would have died down by now, but i guess i was wrong; Winning has made it worse. There is only so long that red sox fans can live in the after glow of their victory. It is not as if they are tearing up baseball right now because every time they have a chance to put some significant distance between themselves and the other AL East teams they lose. If they are not careful and they get knocked out of 1st place they will probably be watching the playoffs at home b/c I doubt the wild card is coming from the East.

by memphisoriole on Jul 7, 2005 4:08 PM EDT reply actions

Wild Card from the Central

Who would you guess? Anyhow, here's a statistical view. I have not read into how these statistics are generated (and I doubt I will).

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions

bad news on the weather...

FOR BALTIMORE'S INNER HARBOR
Hazardous weather condition(s):

Flash Flood Watch
Hazardous Weather Outlook
Short Term Forecast
Special Weather Statement

Tonight: A slight chance of rain and thunderstorms, then periods of rain and possibly a thunderstorm after 8pm. Some of the storms could produce heavy rainfall. Low near 68. East wind between 9 and 15 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New rainfall amounts between one and two inches possible.

Radar map

by zknower on Jul 7, 2005 5:47 PM EDT reply actions

jeez

If we can't beat the Red Sox C-team, it's not a good sign. Let's go O's.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

GET OUT

BAM

ELI MARRERO

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:02 PM EDT reply actions

What's written on Daniel Cabrera's hat brim?

KENY? What's that mean?

by Boston Fan in Michigan on Jul 7, 2005 8:03 PM EDT reply actions

re:

Yes, KENY.

I have no clue.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions

BAM

MELVIN MORA

YEAH BABY

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:06 PM EDT reply actions

what's the deal

w/no Bigbie in the lineup the past few days? He's been great since coming off the DL.

by jhelfgott @ Camden Chat on Jul 7, 2005 8:14 PM EDT reply actions

facing lefties

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions

TV state any reason why bosox are sitting players?

I came in late. Damon has a hurt shoulder. Just resting the others? I expected them to go for the jugglar.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 8:21 PM EDT reply actions

re:

Yeah, I think Manny and Big Ed are just taking the game off. Maybe to get Cora some reps at SS too.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Rain looks hard.

Need to hustle thru 5 with the lead.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 8:27 PM EDT reply actions

Seriously

Let's just make it through 4 1/2 and then call the sucker.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jul 7, 2005 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Umm, when I said lead I meant the O's

Losing Millar here and is dangerous. I do not like seeing Olerud coming up behind him.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions

YESSSSSSSSS

thank you trot

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 8:39 PM EDT reply actions

woooo

Fasano ends the inning in miraculous fashion. Thanks, Trot.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:39 PM EDT reply actions

Was it me

Or did that replay of the pick off look really really really close

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions

re:

Yeah, he very well might have gotten his foot in. Ain't my problem.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Whew

Fasano bailed Danny out there (a couple of times -- he blocked a wild pitch with Oritz on 3rd).

The weather's not getting any better. Call it!

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jul 7, 2005 8:40 PM EDT reply actions

c'mon

rain damnit. RAIN!!!

is there anything more nerve wracking that watching cabrera pitch? sheesh.

by jeremy52 on Jul 7, 2005 8:44 PM EDT reply actions

good grief

Call the game, Mirabelli can hardly look forward.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:53 PM EDT reply actions

come on

the infield is a slip and slide.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 8:57 PM EDT reply actions

Wow - Sammy Sosa. A hit. With a RISP.

First RBI since June 19 (I'm pretty sure they just said that)

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 9:09 PM EDT reply actions

Now that it's a 2-run lead

the umps don't have to feel guilty about CALLING IT!

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jul 7, 2005 9:10 PM EDT reply actions

Here comes the tarp. Rain Rain Rain.

by drj on Jul 7, 2005 9:12 PM EDT reply actions

Winning

At least we ARE winning... but I can't exactly feel good and comfortable about it. It's Boston's scrubs we're beating. Maybe, just maybe, though, this will help get our @$$3$ in gear and pick up a couple of the other games. Also, at least we got a decent start out of our pitcher. Seems like since Danny got his new wind up he's been pretty dominant. A little scary but dominant overall... 4-0 7 K's against cleveland, 8? K's tonight. Not too bad. Now if Ponson can get his act together for at least one game we might be able to put a winning streak together.

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 9:22 PM EDT reply actions

re:

Dominant? He walked five people against a team that was sitting three regulars and threw over 100 pitches through five innings. He was a lot of things (the biggest of them is "lucky") but dominant wasn't one.

by Scott Christ on Jul 7, 2005 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe not

Maybe dominant wasn't the right word to use... but compare to the rest of the staff right now he is.

BTW... How 'bout they just call this game already. It's pretty nice of Mother Nature to save our Bullpen.

by dayzd toe on Jul 7, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions

45 minutes

On TV they were saying that the league mandates a 45 minute wait before re-evaluating the situation. I'm sure they'll call it -- it's supposed to keep raining here until tomorrow afternoon.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jul 7, 2005 9:42 PM EDT reply actions

Game over

According to Fox sports

by DR common on Jul 7, 2005 10:16 PM EDT reply actions

We got a bit of a gift tonight.

Now all we have to do is take the next three and we're back in first.

Jeez, Cabrera can be infuriating, but he was good enough tonight. If he could just harness what he has he could be a great pitcher.

by rebop on Jul 7, 2005 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions

re:

He is 24 years old.

Go O's, Die Angelos- Visit my blog at marylandsportsfans.baltiblogs.com

by helimech24 on Jul 8, 2005 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions

I know...

but it doesn't make him any less infuriating to watch. Hopefully he will be able to pull it all together as he matures. Many pitchers with great stuff never manage to do it though. Only time will tell if he can. I sure hope so, because with just a little more control he could be a true #1 starter in nearly any rotation.

by rebop on Jul 8, 2005 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Mel...

On another note, it's nice to see Mora getting back to where he's been the last couple years. After somewhat of a slow start, his average is back up to 300 and he's got 15 HR's.

Is there any player in baseball who destroys the ball as quietly as Melvin does?

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 8, 2005 9:41 AM EDT reply actions

re:

Hmm. Maybe not at the same level in both regards - Mora has truly been one of baseball's best hitters the last two years and he gets almost no attention. There are a lot of guys that are overlooked mainstream media-wise. Teixeira is one. Even though they're Red Sox, I don't think (and I've said this before) that Varitek and Nixon quite get their due. Matsui even as a Yankee probably doesn't get enough credit for how big a part of that offense he's been the last two years. But yeah, Mora's not quite a secret at this point but most reg'lar people don't think of him off-hand as one of the best third basemen in the game.

by Scott Christ on Jul 8, 2005 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions