Steroid rumor mill churning today

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 9:35 AM EDT Comment 29 comments

I heard some interesting steroid rumors on WEEI in Boston today. Apparently there are 12 more steroid suspension cases currently in the works, and at least 2 of those cases feature names bigger than Palmeiro's. Sorry, no link, I only heard this on the radio, and have no outside confirmation. It certainly seemed like the guys knew what they were talking about, and cited a source, but I can't remember his name. If there is any truth to this we will be hearing a lot more about it in the days to come.

Update: It looks like I passed along some bad information. My apologies, but thanks to all for the good discussion. In my defense, I did only pass it along as a rumor.

There are only a dozen or so players in the game with bigger names than Palmeiro (Jeter, A-Rod, Vlad, Manny, etc.), so I'm really curious to see who it turns out to be. Personally, I am hoping for either a Yankee or Red Sox player (or ideally both) to be suspended if only to shut up some of the self-righteous Red Sox and Yankee fans I have been hearing on talk radio up here. (And no, Awesome Mike Awesome, I am not saying all Red Sox fans are self righteous, or even more self righteous than any other teams, so cut me some slack--okay?)

Poll

Will Palmeiro be the only "big fish" caught in the new steroid policy's net

Palmeiro is the only baseball star ever to use steroids.

0 votes

Others are using, but no one else will get caught.

2 votes

Others used in the past, but the game is basically clean now.

0 votes

I still believe in the tooth fairy.

4 votes

No, more big suspensions are coming.

7 votes

Um, did you notice Jason Giambi weighs more than his Hummer now?

13 votes

I think it was the Viagra.

3 votes

29 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

One important thing...

Jose Canseco was on ESPN the other day and said something very important (and very true). There are traces of steroids (metabolites I belive he refered to them as) that are left in your body for a long time after you stop taking. These can lead to a positive test.

I think it is interesting to think that people who are not currently using can still be caught right now. Of course, the fact that they were using is enough to justify at least a 10 game suspension.

But it really makes you question how many of these busts are going to be current users and how many are going to basically be busts based on past transgressions.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2005 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jose...

I realize Canseco calls himself "the pharmacist" and all, but I would really be a little reluctant to take his word for it. I mean, would you take his medical advice if he offered it to you? Jose does know a lot about steroids, but he also has an agenda. Most credible sources on this stuff (people with PhDs) say that residual metabolites are very unlikely to trigger a false positive.

If someone tests positive for steroids the most likely reason is because they have taken them within a matter of months (not years). While the posibility of a false positive based on previous use cannot be 100% ruled out, it is also very unlikely.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

metobolites

If there are metabolites residues, why didn't these people test positive last year (steriods testing started last year right)? Or did steriods testing become more stringent this year so that masking agents don't work?

It should real interesting which big names come out in the next weeks. There no way in hell that Raffy is the only big name player out there who's roided up. And I betcha it's going to be big name pitcher that no one would suspect.

by birdman on Aug 10, 2005 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do we know who tested positive last year?

My understanding is that last year's tests were not made public, and there were no penalties in place.

Of course if Raffy tested positive last year, he could be in a heap of trouble with Congress.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please please please...

... let it be Paedro Martinez

Camden Yards needs a organ - just say no to crappy 80s music.

by spike2131 on Aug 10, 2005 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Curious...

not saying you're right or wrong (as you site sources but NAMED none).

But...why do you need proof and sources on this...but you are willing to throw Giambi under the bus because he started hitting? You have no proof he is back on the juice. This entire steroid debate centers on guessing and accusing.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2005 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you a yankee fan?

Giambis hitting like 190 with 1 HR and in ONE FUCKING MONTH he has like 20 something homers is batting close to 300 and is leading the league in OBP. That is a least a little suspicous dont you think escpecially after admitting useing steriods in the past.

by Larry Bigbie3 on Aug 10, 2005 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh

There was nothing wrong with his eye. He was still walking like crazy when he wasn't hitting for power. It's "suspicious," but Giambi is not untalented.

Avoid the rhubarb, hurl it whitewash and have 'em wearing the old golden sombrero! Crackerjack, boys, crackerjack!

by SC on Aug 10, 2005 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No and no

I am not a Yankees fan in any way shape or form. I am a White Sox fan as most here know, I frequent the site as I also like the O's and am good friends with SC. I am simply a person who refuses to accept the logic that for the rest of my life no one who has been linked to steroids can succeed.

Giambi is an extremely talented hitter...Steroids or not. He has one of the best eyes I have ever seen at the plate (Frank Thomas in his prime being the best). If you work a count to your favor you can then drive the ball because you know you're going to be getting meat.

Yes he slumped to start the season, but that does not mean that if he turns it around he is back on the sauce. That is childish thinking. If everytime someone starts hitting after a slump or a career of not being productive then the sport is going to get a lot less fun. Brian Roberts sure was killing the ball earlier this year...roids? Paul Konerko has been on a tear lately after a slow start...roids?

I can not say for 100% certainty that Giambi is clean, just as you can not say that he is using. But I sure as hell am not going to assume anything just because a talented hitter starts hitting.

oh...and by the way...whats with the potty mouth there Andrew Dice Clay? "HEY! I'm over here now!"

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2005 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clarification

"If everytime someone starts hitting after a slump or a career of not being productive then the sport is going to get a lot less fun."

should have read:

If everytime someone starts hitting after a slup or a career of not being productive we are going to label them a user, then the sport is going to get a lot less fun.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2005 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno...

maybe guessing who is on the juice or not has just become part of the fun. The problem is, as you point out, it isn't really fair to those who aren't juicing. On the other hand, this has been an out-of-control problem in baseball for years, and the sorry fact is that it does cast doubt on everyone's accomplishments (even Brian Roberts and every other Oriole).

The players--those who juice and those who don't--could have rectified that problem years ago by demanding a strong and reliable drug testing program so that no legitimate accomplishments would have to be doubted. They didn't do that, and for that everyone of them deserves some blame (and that includes Cal).

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

...with that. The fact that there was no legit and real testing in the sport in the past is horrible.

I just don't enjoy guessing who is on 'roids. It feels like a witchhunt. And even worse...its a witchhunt that we don't really get a resolution to. I could say all day long that um....Travis Hafner is juicing (i'm not suggesting he is...just the first name to come to mind). But if he never gets tested (or if it is not public knowledge who tests clean) then what is the point of guessing.

by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 10, 2005 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is legit and real testing?

What sport has foolproof testing? I'm by no means an expert here, but the chemists have been able to stay ahead of testing procedures.

I saw an interview with Frank Shorter, the gist of which was that baseball could go a long long way to tighten its testing policies. However, it is difficult to catch a determined steroid user. The ultimate deterrence is harsh punishment. If one knew that achievements would be taken from the record books, and that a career could effectively end (like the multi-year bans in track and fieled), one would be less inclined to use the drugs. This is not definitive resolution, it is not fair (those with the best chemists can still come out on top), but it seems to be the best anyone has to offer at this time.

by drj on Aug 10, 2005 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At minimum...

they should be testing blood not urine. Urine tests are vulnerable to masking agents, and can miss a lot of substances. For an example of an entity that takes the problem seriously, take a look at the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) standards:

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/dynamic.ch2?pageCategory_id=3

Of course no testing system will be 100% foolproof, the goal is to make it tougher to get away with. And as you point out, since the potential reward for use is very high (millions of dollars), the punishment needs to be high enough to serve as an actual deterrent.

You can't stop a determined burglar from breaking into your house either, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't lock your door at night, or get an alarm system if you live in a high crime area. If baseball's current testing standards were a house the front door would be locked, but all the windows would be open.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congress investigating Palmeiro...

feels like a witch-hunt to me...on the other hand he kind of left himself open to it by lying to Congress. I agree the speculation is pointless, but it is equally inevitable because baseball has broken the trust with the public. It's pretty much just tough noogies for the players...if they don't want people guessing or making jokes they have the power to demand a serious testing system...but so far they have done that. In fact they have used their union to negotiate an extremely weak testing regimen. That's something they are responsible for collectively.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

speculation

I would speculate that part of the reason that no one wanted drug testing when steroids began to pop up in the game was that all the players on CRACK were afraid of any kind of urine samples.

Beltway Sports Beat: A blog or fans of Baltimore-Washington area sports

by CStoneNo37 on Aug 10, 2005 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've read...

more articles than I can remember on this issue. The info came from a Q&A I read somewhere with Dr. Gary Wadler, one of the most recognized medical experts in the field of steroid use in professional sports. If you are really interested in the subject, I would highly recommend Wadler's book, Drugs and the Athelete. All I'm saying is that Canseco is not the best source of information, (but you can believe whoever you want).

As for throwing Giambi under the bus...I'm not sure he'd fit under it. But my reference to him is only meant to be a joke, I'm not accusing him of anything. I do feel more comfortable making a joke about Giambi because he admitted using steroids to a grand jury, and publicly apologized without detailing what he was apologizing for. Also, he is notably bigger than he was earlier in the season. I'm not saying why he's bigger--but he is. Heck, I don't know why Sidney Ponson is so fat, but that doesn't stop me from making fun of him--maybe the guy has a glandular disorder and not a problem with Hardees Monster Thick Burger abuse.

It is true that much of the debate--outside of Palmerio and the few no-names who have been caught--involves guessing. That is because MLB still only has a half-assed system in place. Giambi, an admitted juicer, however is fair game for jokes if not specific unproven allegations.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giambi

what's odd about Giambi is how his bat speed suddenly improved. And let me know quickly say I'm not accusing of Giambi of being roided up. But as someone said earlier, I'm very suspicious. How do you explain that he could not catch up to a 90 mph fast ball earlier in the season but now he's crushing them? Somehow his bat speed drastically improved between now and the beginning of the season. This is not a case of where he was crushing the ball earlier in the season but they were hit directly at people. Or his bat speed was good but his timing was off. Or even his mechanics were off and now he's fixed them them by working with Donnie. As somebody pointed out earlier, his on base percentage was excellent earlier in the season which means he's seeing the ball well. But seeing the ball well and talking walks doesn't mean you're a good slugger. It just usually means you're a good leadoff man, not a slugger who bats 3,4, or 5. So please somebody explain to me how his bat speed suddenly improved.

by birdman on Aug 10, 2005 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

don't give a he's eating healthier now or he was rusty at the beginning of the season garbage. Typically players wear down as the season goes, our orioles are a prime example of this. But Giambi somehow looks rejuvenated.

by birdman on Aug 10, 2005 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should have listened today

But I only occasionally tune into WEEI after a particularly tough Red Sox loss. Good disclaimer. I'm hoping Red Sox. I've gotten my share of ribbing at work about the Orioles and the "pharmacy they run down there". I'm figuring the Red Sox aren't squeaky clean. No team is.

In any event, I'll be listening for more rumors. In a perverse way, it would be good to see Raffy have some company. If only to help deflect all the cricism currently being heaped his way.

by drj on Aug 10, 2005 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah...

no team is untainted by this--it's delusional to think otherwise. Raffy should have some company in this if for no other reason than he does have company in this. Palmeiro got caught, but he is not the only one by a long shot.

I really dislike most of the guys on WEEI (although some of them really know their stuff). Yesterday a caller mispronounced Kevin Youklis' name and the host said something along the lines of "If you are going to call into the number one sports station in the country with 50,000 watts of power, you should at least be able to pronounce Kevin Youklis' name correctly." Jeez, could you possibly be a little more full of yourself buddy? I mean really, that's pretty harsh coming from a semi-literate jock who likely ended up on the radio because he couldn't hit a curve ball.

by rebop on Aug 10, 2005 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah he needs company...

As long as it's not Miggy.

I think I would die inside if I heard Tejada was on the juice.

Beltway Sports Beat: A blog or fans of Baltimore-Washington area sports

by CStoneNo37 on Aug 10, 2005 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN - Sheffield on Quite Frankly

They showed a clip of Gary Sheffield on Quite Frankly during SportsCenter last night.(paraphrased), "If you get caught taking steroids, it shouldn't be 10 days or 50 games. You should be suspended for a year."

HEY A*HOLE! REMEMBER, YOU TOOK STEROIDS!!!!

S*t I hate Gary Sheffield.

Beltway Sports Beat: A blog or fans of Baltimore-Washington area sports

by CStoneNo37 on Aug 10, 2005 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but sheff

has said up front he's taken the "clear", or whatever the hell it's called, but he didn't "know" what was in it. Giambi, in contrast, lied about taking steriods before he Balco outed him. Lesson? If you have roided up in the past, just admit it, and make up some lie about how it got into your body. Actually I don't even think you need to lie about how it got into your body. Just make up some story about how the do or die culture of competitive sports made you look for any competitive advantage (i.e. blame the culture not yourself). Then say I'm sorry about taking steroids in the past but I'm clean now. I would LOVE to see one athelete do this, just one. Sure there would be some negative public backlash but I betcha the public would be very forgiving about your past indiscretions.

by birdman on Aug 10, 2005 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rumors on pending cases

FWIW

on PTI last night, Selig said there was only one illegal performance enhancing case in process he knew of, it was a young player and it was implied that it wasn't a major player
most every major baseball guy has heard the same thing; but lacks any proof to bring it up except in the most vague of ways

by thecubsfan on Aug 10, 2005 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Baseball is the guilty party

While the players who have messed around with this garbage are the ultimate "evil doers" here, the game itself is a sorry ass excuse for any Major League sports organiztion.
Just consider the following facts:

The commissioner of the sport, who by the way owns a team, took eight full days before he publicly commented on the situation with Palmiero. If this had been the NBA or NFL, Tagliabue and Stern would have been the one to not only announce the news, but would have also made very personal speeches about the game itself, what it means to the the rest of the league, the players, owners, coaches, and especially the fans.( Remember the Artest incident? )
Years ago, about the same time that Cal broke the streak and helped bring back interest in the game after the "stoppage" of '94, the higher ups and "powers that be" knew that the "juice" was readily available in most clubhouses around the majors. The didn't give one little turd about the integrity of the sport...they wanted to bring the asses back into the seats. The great home run derbys of the late 90's did just that, and then some. The press was questioning the newfound strength and power of some of the Brady Anderson's of the woprld...but what was done at the time? NOTHING! Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!
The Olympic sports long ago began testing stringently for illegal performance enhancers...and why? They wanted to make sure that there was a serious amount of integrity to the sports. Not even psuedephrine, an antihistamine meant to stop you from sneezing, was allowed. They wanted to be sure that the athletes that WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF BY TRAINING AND WORKING OUT HOUR AFTER HOUR, DAY AFTER DAY, YEAR AFTER YEAR, were not being beaten or having records broken by CHEATERS that put more importance on records than their own integrity. What a freakin concept that is!

In summary, the sport has failed the fans. Selig, the only man to ever consider a tie acceptable in a baseball game, is the ultimate owners owner. Cares about the cash, not the fans or the integrity of the game.

Basball has failed us, and we and the players are paying the price. The players end up being called cheaters while the fans get angry. Meanwhile, the owners are taking none of the blame, and we keep watching and buying tickets.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 10, 2005 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs