NOT so fast, my friend

by Scott Christ on Jan 3, 2006 4:22 AM EST in News & Rumors

Jeromy Burnitz ain't no Oriole just yet. He has not officially agreed to that two-year deal we thought he had officially agreed to, and Houston and the Pirates are both interested. Frankly -- being quite frank -- Burnitz would be crazy to sign here instead of with the Astros if they're offering anything resembling a competitive contract to the two-year, $10-12 million deal we reportedly gave him. The Astros need a left fielder and he'd be in a much better position to win and staying in the league he knows.

I am saying two things: (1) I hope Houston offers him at least roughly the same deal, and (2) I hope Burnitz isn't crazy.

The New York Daily News (312 grains of salt, my friends) is reporting this ridiculous idea:

NYM gets: LF Manny Ramirez, RHP Danys Baez
BOS gets: SS Miguel Tejada, CF Joey Gathright
BAL gets: SS Julio Lugo, RHP Matt Clement, RHP Kris Benson
TAM gets: RHP Aaron Heilman, RHP Jae Seo, maybe 3B Andy Marte

That will only happen in the reign of Queen Dick.

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PLEEEEEAAAASE be true

Oh, wouldn't it be wonderful if we weren't actually saddled with Burnitz for two years. Please god, let this all be true.

by punkrawka on Jan 3, 2006 7:18 AM EST reply actions

Unscrambled deal

BAL gets: Manny Ramirez, Matt Clement, Julio Lugo
TAM gets: Bronson Arroyo, Bruce Chen, Aaron Heilman
BOS gets: Miguel Tejada, Aubrey Huff, Joey Gathright
NYM gets: Danys Baez

Fingers-crossed for Burnitz-Free-Birds in 2006!

by 3RunHomer on Jan 3, 2006 8:13 AM EST reply actions

I'd almost like that

if I didn't think Chen would be as good or better than Bedard and that we can get a good hitter for Bedard.

by therobotian on Jan 3, 2006 10:48 AM EST up reply actions

Markakis.....

Please say it isn't so...

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=119682

To trade your best major league player AND your best prospect, no way!

by delbird on Jan 3, 2006 9:04 AM EST reply actions

they can't possibly

be that stupid.

by therobotian on Jan 3, 2006 10:49 AM EST up reply actions

Or Can They?

I point to exhibit A as proof of stupidity... it's known as the Pontoon Project. He sucked, they traded him, he still sucked, so they decided to bring him back. Like Einstein said, stupidity is trying something that didn't work... again... and expecting different results (paraphrased).

by dayzd toe on Jan 3, 2006 11:30 AM EST up reply actions

Another example

Every time I think, "They can't possibly be that stupid," I remember Baustista for Grimsley and cringe. It doesn't even matter if Baustista never amounts to anything -- giving up that potential for a totally replaceable mediocrity was indefensible.

This would be worse, of course, but still... it's tough to have any confidence that just because something is inexplicably stupid that means that the Orioles won't do it.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jan 3, 2006 11:36 AM EST up reply actions

I still don't think

That they'd do it. They were reluctant to trade Tejada for Ramirez/Clement straight up. They wouldn't add a player like Markakis (unless they got a player like Marte in return).

by therobotian on Jan 3, 2006 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

If Marte were included

that might make sense -- I like Markakis, but Marte is more advanced, and the Orioles have a lot of OF prospects and pretty much none in the infield. I'm still not sure the deal would make the team much better NOW (unless they were ready to play Marte this year and move Melvin to the OF), but at least it would count as building for the future.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jan 3, 2006 11:58 AM EST up reply actions

indeed

And they could also try Marte at SS or 1B in Spring Training. If he could play capable defense at 1B he could be an upgrade over Young (though I am still a Young fan). I still have no faith that Conine will be playing at all, as it's been 2 weeks since his deal with confirmed but we have yet to see an announcement.

by therobotian on Jan 3, 2006 12:11 PM EST up reply actions

of course

this is all just speculation. the rumor has Marte going to Tampa Bay, and he's probably the deal maker for them.

by therobotian on Jan 3, 2006 12:13 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah

I don't actually see it happening, in part because unlike everything else I've seen proposed, it actually makes sense from the Orioles' perspective. But it would take something like that to make the deal palatable to me.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jan 3, 2006 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

Thoughts

A) If the Os have some chance not to go through with the Burnitz deal, they should jump at the chance.

B) What the hell is it with all these rumors? None of them make a whit of sense for the Orioles. And the Markakis rumor is insane. Either the media is just taking stuff from fan boards and posting it as a real possibility, or other GMs have so little respect for the Orioles front office that they'll ask for anything.

Sure Manny's great, and I even like his space-cadet aspects more than most people do, but that deal is just standing in place for the Orioles, at best. They need (and I hope they have) a PLAN to get better for the future -- they can't just improve marginally and hope to contend in this division. They need a long-term plan to get a lot better, building on young talent and maintaining that core for a long time. Unless a deal with the Sox includes Pedrioa or Marte, I'm not listening. If they really asked for Markakis, I'd cut off negotiations right now, because obviously they're not taking you seriously.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Jan 3, 2006 9:18 AM EST reply actions

Some links to these stories

* The Burnitz situation, from The Sun:

Orioles executive vice president Mike Flanagan declined to comment on any specifics involving Burnitz, but he has stated that a deal is not official until the player passes a physical.

Howard Simon, Burnitz's Connecticut-based agent, said yesterday that no deal had been struck with the Orioles, the Post-Gazette reported, and that he had told reporters only that he was "staying in close touch" with the Orioles.

Sounds like Flanny getting cold feet. Which is a good thing, in this case.

Nothing about Houston. SC, do you have a link for that story?

* A snip from the Herald article

According to sources, the Baltimore Orioles would like to decide the fate of shortstop Miguel Tejada within the next several days. Among the possible trade partners with Baltimore are the Red Sox, who are offering outfielder Manny Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement in exchange for Tejada and an outfielder, who could be 22-year-old prospect Nick Markakis.

While there was indication yesterday that the Sox and Orioles have not agreed on the players who could be involved in the deal, the presence of a second player coming from Baltimore to Boston is new information. That element could introduce yet another stumbling block because the Orioles would prefer the Sox take someone like 27-year-old Luis Matos, a center fielder and career .260 hitter with decent speed, little power and a free-swinging mentality at the plate.

Also according to sources, there was some indication that Ramirez would accept a deal to Baltimore only if the Orioles would exercise a pair of options on the player's contract. Those options would keep Ramirez in Baltimore through 2010 but are at a whopping $20 million each, which would be a major deterrent to the Orioles.

by zknower on Jan 3, 2006 9:19 AM EST reply actions

Matos?

It would make sense that they would try to move Matos maybe for some cash fom Boston. But that was before we losT Burnitz. He could have moved to CF when Manny takes LF. But what now?

by el gordo on Jan 3, 2006 12:12 PM EST up reply actions

cold feet

"Sounds like Flanny getting cold feet."

Or Burnitz got cold feet over us. An positive fallout from the Tejada controversy. According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, he took a 1 year, 6 million dollar contract. Now that's a more reasonable contract.

by birdman on Jan 3, 2006 1:43 PM EST up reply actions

error

sorry the Post-Gazette is reporting a 2 year, 12 million dollar deal.

by birdman on Jan 3, 2006 1:49 PM EST up reply actions

Manny isn't coming to Baltimore

I love Manny, in Fact of my favorite players he's only second to Eddie (eat,sleep and be) Murray. But why in Gods name would you trade an all start player (Miggy) and get another allstar that makes more and is older? If you're rebuilding then go after very young MLB players or prospects. But crying out loud already Miggy's what 29. Damn I feel old when they say he's older.

The O's FO don't have a clue! Burnitz sucks (besides power) You have Jay Gibbons that does just as well as Burnitz for 10million less.

PA has been testing too many drugs. Maybe he's needs some of Miggy's magic B12

PLay like you want it, Live like you need it

by merdon1332000 on Jan 3, 2006 11:45 AM EST reply actions

"If you're rebuilding..."

That's the thing. The Orioles have no idea what rebuilding is or how to do it correctly. Because it's been so long since they've won, they are constantly trapped in the cycle of attempting a quick fix to appease a percentage of the fans that are just dying to see one team reach 81 wins. Because they do that, they ignore everything except the very nearest future, never improve for more than weeks or, if you have a good year, a couple months, at a time, and just chase their own tail to the bitter end of every season, and then we start it all over again for the next one while Big Pete promises that things are going to change this time, REALLY! Those who ignore history, etc.

"I don't see why you reporters keep confusing Brooks and me. Can't you see that we wear different numbers?" - Frank Robinson

by Scott Christ on Jan 3, 2006 1:47 PM EST up reply actions

NY Daily News

Are these guys just reporting what a Mets fan's fantasies are about what's going to happen in this 4 way trade. Oh wait this just went up on the Daily News' website (from Omar minaya's dreams):

NYM gets: Manny Ramirez, Aubrey Huff, Josh Beckett, David Ortiz, Danys Baez, Roger Clemens (somehow he just got thrown in there)
BOS gets: Miguel Tejada, Joey Gathright
TAM gets: Aaron Heilman, Jae Seo, Andy Marte, two premier groundskeepers from Shea Stadium, one hotdog vendor with a very loud voice from Fenway
BAL gets: Matt Clement, Julio Lugo, Kris Benson, Anna Benson, 3 of Anna's stripper friends for "Morale Boosting", A Peanut Vendor who can throw a bag with pinpoint accuracy across two entire sections

by Jonnypops on Jan 3, 2006 1:37 PM EST reply actions

Sold

On the stripers and the Peanut dude! Sounds like a great deal Peter.

PLay like you want it, Live like you need it

by merdon1332000 on Jan 3, 2006 3:17 PM EST reply actions

Mets

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting the O's to keep Ramirez even if they get him, not with the Mets so anxious to get him. Some elements from the 4 way deal may still come about if this happens. Maybe the O's getting, Floyd, Milledge, Benson, and Heilman for Ramirez (and Julio) would be possible (on top of Clement from the Red Sox). That would free up some pitching to deal to find a shortstop (back to the 4 way idea, with Lugo). I wouldn't really want Matsui but if that was part of what was shipped off to TB, no problem.

I'd still rather see the O's somehow get Papelbon from the Red Sox in this deal.

My main point is, if some form of the Ramirez-Tejada trade occurs, I'll hold back on any reaction until I see if it leads to something else with Ramirez.

by delbird on Jan 3, 2006 4:07 PM EST reply actions

Manny & the Mets

It's the new Elton John hit that's sweeping the UK...okay that was bad.

Minaya has been hot for Manny not only because he's a world class hitter but also because of his following here in NYC, particularly in the Dominican community in Washington Heights, where Manny grew up and was a high school baseball superstar. Shea has already turned into Santo Domingo North every time Pedro Martinez pitches...and I'm sure part of Minaya's fascination with this deal is making that the case every home game with Manny in the lineup. There are actually so many Manny fans here that during the famed Yanks-Boston AL Championship series in 2004 there were tons of Dominicans walking around wearing Boston hats...which before would have been unheard of in the Big Apple.

There's a few hitches with the Mets though. For one, if Ramirez is lookng for privacy, NYC is going to be worse than even Boston, given his history here and his Dominaican heritage. Secondly, there have been rumors of worries here among Mets execs about Manny getting into trouble with some of his old friends here in NYC that he grew up with. Why this is a concern about a 34 year old man who makes $20 million a year is amazing, if it is in fact true.

by Jonnypops on Jan 3, 2006 4:26 PM EST up reply actions

Re:

Am I the only one thinking that these three and four body problems are not going to be resolved? They are just too complicated. The O's FO has trouble negotiating with a single team. The Peter Angelos style is to negotiate/procrastinate until the deal is gone. In fact, I'm thinking there will be no trade.

The only single team trade that seems to still have any steam is with the Red Sox. The Cubs have always offered way too little and seem adamant. The Red Sox aren't far behind, but they seem more desperate to unload their problems. The latest rumor is Clement/Ramirez for Tejada/Markakis? Instead the O's should push for Pabelbon or Lester in that deal. The Red Sox have an outfield hole, and if they want a prospect, deal hard for a Boston youngster.

I also never expected Peter Angelos to agree to Manny's contract as it exists today. The recent rumor that Manny wants two option years to 2010, guaranteed at $20 million each, is a deal breaker.

I sense the winds are blowing for a no deal, and it will be interesting to tune in for Tejada's first AB in the Yard.

"We are coming back strong next year ... I know you have heard that tune before, but this time it will literally come true." Peter Angelos 09/2005

by drj on Jan 3, 2006 5:02 PM EST reply actions

I don't know...

what's going to happen, but Manny demanding the Orioles exercise a $40 million 2 year option 3 years in advance is a deal breaker for sure. As much as the guy has bitched that he wants out of Boston, he sure makes himself hard to trade. His contract was nearly prohibitive to begin with, but tacking on another guaranteed $40 million makes him totally untradable.

by rebop on Jan 3, 2006 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

Gammons Insider

I do not have ESPN Insider, but I did find this snippet on bostondirtdogs from Gammons' 01.03.06 Insider article.

"Trading Ramirez to Baltimore -- which would also include Matt Clement -- for Miguel Tejada could be determined later this week. It has long been fueled on the Tejada end by his close friend, David Ortiz. It does not in any way include a four-way creation of a Mets fan's Internet fantasy."

"'If I were to wager a guess today,' says an Oriole executive, 'it would be that Manny opens the season with the Red Sox and Tejada is with the Orioles. As far as I'm concerned, Tejada is one of the five best players in the game. His contract ($12 million annual average value) was signed in a down market, as opposed to Manny's ($20 million annual average value), which was signed in an inflationary market. If Tejada went on the market this winter, he'd probably get between $14 million and $16 million a year.'" -- 1.3.06, Peter Gammons ESPN.com Insider

As suspected, Ortiz and Tejada have been chatting, and no surprises then on the timing of Tejada's outbursts. No comments needed, it's all been said.

"You win pennants in the off season when you build your teams with trades and free agents." Earl Weaver

by drj on Jan 4, 2006 12:21 AM EST reply actions