LaRoche Musings

by nittany lion on Dec 19, 2006 12:13 AM EST Comment 16 comments

Ken Rosenthal is reporting (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6287132) that we are in still pursuit of LaRoche, this time in exchange for Chris Ray instead of BRob. Apparently, wed still have to give up Penn.

Honestly, as much as I would hate to give up Ray, I think its worth it. We have some potential closers in the minors (Hoey and Liz) but we really dont have any potential power hitters. This would also make better use of the money spent on the bullpen this winter. Yeah, we have to give up a good player but thats the only way we can get a good player back.

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hmm

Ray is younger and has less service time. LaRoche is a power-hitting first baseman, something we need.

Power-hitting first basemen are easy to find.

Cheap closers are harder to find.

We're paying Baez like a closer anyway, so I guess we might as well use him as one (perish the thought).

I'm always attached to homegrown players. I dunno about giving up two 0-3 players for one guy with two years left before free agency.

by pipkin on Dec 19, 2006 1:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

Power-hitting first basemen are easy to find.

When's the last time we had one?

"I don't want any credit. I'm not looking for credit. You know what? I don't want any blame if we're horse shit, either." -- Jim Leyland

by SC on Dec 19, 2006 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True

But that doesn't mean they aren't fairly common. I mean hell, Josh Phelps could've worked out, but apparently the FO doesn't understand the Rule 5 draft.

Oh, and I guess Raffy would be the last time we had one ;p

by pipkin on Dec 19, 2006 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1B

"Power-hitting first basemen are easy to find."
"But that doesn't mean they aren't fairly common."

The average 1B is better than average 2B offensively. But I don't know if it's really easy to find a power hitting 1B. According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, here are the first list of available 1B next offseason.

Sean Casey DET
Tony Clark ARZ
Jeff Conine PHI
Julio Franco NYM
Matt LeCroy WAS
Kevin Millar * BAL
Olmedo Saenz LAD
Mark Sweeney SF
Mike Sweeney KC

None of these names excite. Maybe Millar and Casey are the only passable names on that list.

Big Bird says, "Get Pat the Bat!"

by birdman on Dec 19, 2006 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

I agree that power hitting first basemen are more common that top-notch closers, but we havent been able to find a decent first baseman since Raffy's first tour, and our organizational strength is our pitching.
I think we need to play to our strengths and realize that losing Penn and Ray to gain LaRoche will be a move that helps us in both the long and short term. We have a lot of pitching in the minors and our organization seems to know how to draft good pitching.
A closer pitches one inning of a game (an important inning, granted) but LaRoche would play everyday, and make the players around him better. I also think the article said LaRoche is under contract for the next 3 years, which is a pretty long time.

by nittany lion on Dec 19, 2006 1:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would

Trade one or the other ( ray or Penn) for Laroche, I don't know if both is that good of a deal for us. Any Top players coming this year that O's could snag in the draft?

by merdon1332000 on Dec 19, 2006 3:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Question

If LaRoche is such a hot young hitter, why are the Braves trying to move him? Do they have a surplus of young talented first basemen? Or do they have another reason?

The first time this trade was talked about, when it was for B-Rob, I was excited about it because I'm so desperate for hitting. But now I'm having second thoughts about it. Obviously trading a closer with one good year for a young guy who can really hit seems like a no brainer, but if it is, why are the Braves all over it? I know Penn is in there too, and I know the boy tore it up the minors but I have trouble getting excited about his future since he totally blew when I saw him.

by Stacey on Dec 19, 2006 7:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

Obviously trading a closer with one good year for a young guy who can really hit seems like a no brainer, but if it is, why are the Braves all over it?

They're really excited about Scott Thorman, and really unexcited about Bob Wickman's future, I would guess. Wickman was lights-out for Atlanta but they know he's short-term.

Or at least this is how I rationalize it. Another thought is that they got shot down on Roberts, and decided that in addition to Penn, Ray is the guy they would want that is more available than Brian Bob.

Another thought is they overvalue closers.

Another thought is they just don't seem so smart now that they didn't win the division.

"I don't want any credit. I'm not looking for credit. You know what? I don't want any blame if we're horse shit, either." -- Jim Leyland

by SC on Dec 19, 2006 8:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re

Theres a very, very good chance that last year was his career year. He wasnt really much of a prospect at all in the minors. And the Braves have sheltered him the past 3 years, they never let him play against lefties so he wouldn't get exposed. Over his career he has 1087 ABs against righties, but only 180 ABs against lefties. Thats pretty alarming. The Braves are one of the best organizations in baseball and have killed people in trades the past 15 years.

This is just an example of them selling high, they clearly don't have confidence in LaRoche to repeat his numbers. I don't think LaRoche and his long, loopy swing is all that good neither. Its just concerning that LaRoche has been attached to a lot of teams this offseason, its obvious the Braves want to deal him by any means possible.

by dtran2k3 on Dec 19, 2006 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Wouldn't you want to deal a guy that just had a big year if you think you have a guy who can take his job immediately?

I don't think LaRoche is a great player by any means. However I do believe he is a better player than Brian Roberts and a more useful piece of this team than Chris Ray. Roberts has awful L/R splits, too, and Ray is a closer on a team that doesn't win any games.

I also think the Braves could be very wrong about Thorman.

"I don't want any credit. I'm not looking for credit. You know what? I don't want any blame if we're horse shit, either." -- Jim Leyland

by SC on Dec 19, 2006 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Millar

We will still have Millar to face lefties if need be.

When your best two hitters on the team are you shortstop and your catcher you should be able to have a good lineup, those are the two toughest positions to fill offensively.

Its embarrassing how bad our offense is considering who we have up the middle.

by nittany lion on Dec 19, 2006 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mlbtraderumors reported on sunday

LaRoche for Roberts, and then we'd sign Mark Loretta to play 2B.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/12/adam_laroche_fo.html

by exitfare on Dec 19, 2006 8:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

also

I really hate Ken Rosenthal.

by exitfare on Dec 19, 2006 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adam LaRoche

As an Atlanta Braves fan who was curious about the rumors surrounding Laroche, I thought I would check out your site.

My impression, for what its worth, is that the Braves are desperate to bolster a bullpen that blew 32 saves last year. They have 38 year old Wickman, who probably tips the scale at about 275 lbs (an injury waiting to happen if he's overused). They have Sorianno, obtained from Seattle in a trade, who is still a question mark after he got beaned by a linedrive last year. And the rest of the pen is full of yutes and castoffs.

LaRoche is a great fielder. He will win a gold glove someday. Being a lefty, he turns the 3-6-whatever DP really well.

As a batter, he took off after the All-Star break after he began taking an attention deficit disorder medication that helped him dial in. That coincided with more at bats when manager Bobby Cox freed him from the platoon system he was in after Brian Jordan started sucking out loud at first base. Bobby Cox loves platoons at first with old, cheap guys on their last legs. Ask Julio Franco.

If the Braves get Penn and Ray for Laroche, I'd say its a pretty even trade for the coming season. In the long run, the O's will get the better deal.

by stinky on Dec 19, 2006 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Stinky

What's your take on LaRoche? As someone pointed out earlier, "Theres a very, very good chance that last year was his career year," which is a sentiment I'm beginning to hear a lot lately. Is the meds for ADD the deus ex machina for LaRoche?

Big Bird says, "Get Pat the Bat!"

by birdman on Dec 19, 2006 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LaRoche is worth keeping

He really is worth keeping. I look at last year as a breakout, not an anomaly. And the meds helped. He had tried medication before, but it made him "nervous". His current dosage is much smaller, with fewer side affects.

Under normal circumstances, LaRoche would be untouchable. But, Atlanta is locked into an $80M payroll with 7 players making 80% of that. They can't compete in the free agent market for bona fide major league bullpen help, so they have to get creative. LaRoche is one of the only major league bargaining chip the Braves have that they are willing to give up. Brian McCann, Jeff Francouer and Chuck James are completely untouchable.

If the O's get him, I don't think they'll be disappointed.

by stinky on Dec 19, 2006 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs