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Cal Hall vote not unanimous

Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn may surpass Tom Seaver's 98.84% mark on Hall of Fame Ballots, but neither will get in unanimously. At least one member of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, Paul Ladewski, a columnist for the Daily Southtown in suburban Chicago, felt he did not have "enough information" to judge Ripken or Gwynn's candidacy.

The issue for Ladewski is steroids. While he suspects neither Ripken nor Gwynn of steroid use, he feels since he can't prove they didn't use steroids, he won't vote for either of them.

The Baltimore Sun has the following quotes from Ladewski:

"In an attempt to uphold the Hall of Fame standards established by their predecessors, I will not vote for anyone who played in the 1993-2004 period, which I consider to be the Steroids Era," Ladewski wrote in an e-mail to The Sun last month. "That includes Tony Gwynn, Mark McGwire and Cal Ripken Jr."

"It's not an anti-Cal Ripken vote or an anti-Tony Gwynn vote; it's a vote about not knowing enough, in my opinion, of the Steroids Era and performance-enhancing drugs to make the kind of decision that needs to be made," Ladewski said.

"From my dealings with Cal Ripken Jr. in the past, he was very pleasant, a good ambassador for the game, and his numbers speak for themselves," Ladewski said. "But I don't have enough information on the [steroids] subject to make a decision."

Before all you Baltimore homers get all upset about someone not voting for Cal, I would like to praise Ladewski's impeccable logic, and extend it to current Hall Of Famers who we lack enough information about to form a reliable judgment about their candidacy:

First up, since I cannot prove that Babe Ruth did not have an unfair advantage because he originally hailed from the planet Krypton and was hence unconstrained by our Earth physics, I do not believe we have enough information about him for inclusion in the Hall of Fame. Sorry Babe, maybe I'll vote for your reinstatement next year if I have more information.

Likewise, to this date no one has proven that Willie Mays didn't play with a magic baseball glove that he purchased with magic beans. I have no reason to suspect Mays of playing with a magic glove, but his continued silence on the subject speaks volumes. He should be out too.

Current vote leader Tom Seaver's numbers speak for themselves, but there were over 18,000 murders in New York City while he played for the New York Mets. In fact the murder rate more than doubled shortly after Seaver's tenure with the Mets began. This is probably just a coincidence, and I have no evidence that Tom Seaver is a serial killer, but until I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Seaver did not commit each and every one of these murders, I don't think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. If we're going to keep Pete Rose out for gambling, then surely mass murder is serious enough to keep a player out of the Hall. We just don't have enough information about Seaver to make a judgment at this time. Should it later be proven Seaver was not responsible for all these murders, I would be willing to reconsider.

Poll
Do we have enough information about Ripken/Gwynn?
Yes.
31 votes
No.
1 votes
I need more information to make a judgement.
4 votes

36 votes | Poll has closed

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Comment 16 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Another Mission Accomplished
Paul Ladewski has enough information to get his name printed in articles across the entire country. All it takes is a gimmick.  Nice job, Paul.  You took a phrase that's typically relegated to multiple choice (E) on a high school exam and rode it all the way to the top.  Peter Schmuck, are you paying attention?

by Jonnypops on Jan 8, 2007 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly
I thought the exact same thing when I read this yesterday. The guy got his name in the headlines. He's a prostitute.

Hmm, he's a Chicago guy. I wonder if he's been as "principled" in the past and refused to vote for (the hugely overrated) Ryne Sandberg.  Or whether he'll be as "principled" in the future when Frank Thomas comes up for voting.

by drj on Jan 8, 2007 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow..
That's some incredible logic Paul's got there.  If there was ever a reason to exclude someone from HOF comittee, his logic for not voting for Gwynn or Cal has to be it.  If he would have come out and said, Cal or Tony just weren't good enough, I could have somewhat respected that.  I wouldn't have agreed, but that is actually an argument you can make.  

By Paul's logic, should we now just close down the Hall of Fame???  Obviously, you can't absolutely prove that anybody didn't take steroids; so does he really think that nobody should ever again get in the Hall???

momma take a look now at what your boy has done; he's walking around like he's number one; he went downtown and bought him a gun.

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 8, 2007 1:02 PM EST reply actions  

The Daily Southtown?
Is that like Grit magazine?
Such a bastion of fine journalism, no doubt. How the fuck does a rag like that get credentials like this?
I don't have enough information to suggest that the guy is a child molester or crack addict, but I do have enough to know he's and asshole.
Here's the contact point, if you so choose:
Daily Southtown
6901 W. 159th St.
Tinley Park, IL 60477
(708) 633-6700

by tbone shelby on Jan 8, 2007 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

re
"In an attempt to uphold the Hall of Fame standards established by their predecessors"

snort

"I don't want any credit. I'm not looking for credit. You know what? I don't want any blame if we're horse shit, either." -- Jim Leyland

by Scott Christ on Jan 8, 2007 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

Well
I'm not mean enough to just post it right here, but if you read the article about his vote, it has his E-mail address at the bottom...

by punkrawka on Jan 8, 2007 5:31 PM EST reply actions  

Hmm
If Cal and Tony are off limits because they played since '93, then it looks like Mr. Ladewski could only possibly be casting for two of the following: Bert Blyleven, Dave Concepción, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Dave Parker, or Jim Rice.

No offense to the six gentlemen listed above, but that is the most retarded thing I have ever heard in my life.

I'm calling Washington: Paul Ladewski is no longer an American.

"I could never play in New York. The first time I came into a game there, I got in the bullpen car and they told me to lock the doors." --Flanny

by The Sicilian on Jan 8, 2007 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

If Tony did steroids
Then I don't want them, I don't think Tony was every thin, The man put dunlap on the map, ohh by the way IMO one of the greatest hitters in the game ever! No not a power hitter a pure hitter.

by merdon1332000 on Jan 8, 2007 7:54 PM EST reply actions  

re:
Gwynn wasn't powerless or anything, though. A lot of his game was poking singles but he could put one in the gap and had a few years where he slugged over .500 ('87, '94 when he was murdering everything, '97, '98 -- uh oh, '97 and '98!)

And goddamn he never struck out. It took him 20 seasons to match two years and change of Adam Dunn. (Well, about 18 full seasons.)

And for a short chubby guy, he could burn when he was younger.

"I don't want any credit. I'm not looking for credit. You know what? I don't want any blame if we're horse shit, either." -- Jim Leyland

by Scott Christ on Jan 9, 2007 6:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I know
He was the best hitter I've ever watched play. I would love to know how he did it all those years.

There's a catcher for the Twins that will repeat what he did!

by merdon1332000 on Jan 9, 2007 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

re:
So rebop, when exactly did you move to RI? I'm trying to align that with the resurgence of Buddy Cianci and his racketeering, extortion, etc. Also, when exactly were you in NYC?

by drj on Jan 9, 2007 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

Moved to RI in 2000...
Just about the time Operation Plunder Dome cast its net over Providence corruption. Moved to NYC in 1993, just in time for the record drop in crime. I'm not going to take credit for either thing, but just try to prove I'm not responsible for both.

by rebop on Jan 9, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It wasn't just Ladewski...
There were seven others apparently. I'd like to hear their rationale as well. I mean seriously.

Anyway, Congrats to Cal! He just barely fell short of Seaver's mark, which diminishes his accomplishments not a bit.

by rebop on Jan 9, 2007 3:07 PM EST reply actions  

RE:
Some writers refuse to vote for anyone their first time on the ballot.  I don't really understand the logic behind that; but I can still respect that argument more than the 'unless they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they didn't do something' argument.
momma take a look now at what your boy has done; he's walking around like he's number one; he went downtown and bought him a gun.

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 9, 2007 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...
Ladewski's argument is based on extremely poor logic, but not voting for anyone on the first ballot seems pretty arbitrary. I mean, either they deserve to get in or not. But so long as the writer applies it consistently, it doesn't strike me as as stupid. I would be interested to hear what the others have to say.

by rebop on Jan 10, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

RE:
The reason that they don't vote on the first ballot is because they don't want anyone to ever get 100%.  If guys like Willie Maze and Babe Ruth didn't get 100; then they don't think anyone should.

From what I can tell the argument is essentially that 'We the sportswriters have a long tradition of doing really stupid things, and we want to uphold this tradition'.

But like I said, that makes more sense to me than not voting for someone unless it's proven that they didn't do something.  If we applied that standard to all players, then logic would tell you that nobody should ever be voted in.

momma take a look now at what your boy has done; he's walking around like he's number one; he went downtown and bought him a gun.

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 10, 2007 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

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