Reds think they can get Bedard...

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 9, 2007 12:03 AM EST

...without giving up their top young hitter, Jay Bruce. According to mlbtraderumors.com, and their link to "Reds Insider," the deal would be for Joey Votto, Homer Bailey, and a top prospect. I'm not sold on Bailey, and we need BATS. You can never have too much pitching, true, but the arms in our system far outweigh the hitters. I still like what LAD has to offer better than this.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/reds-still-purs.html

I also want NOTHING to do with Edwin Encarnacion; barely above league average in the NL, and apparently an attitude problem. No thanks. I'll take all the attitude he wants if he can post something much more impressive than an OPS+ of 102.

As for Josh Hamilton...well, just on the numbers, I like him a whole lot more than Encarnacion. I don't like the hand-carts full of matched luggage he comes with, and I don't like his injury history. I hope for the best for him, and that his inspiring comeback continues well. Just not in Baltimore.

I don't think the Reds are a good fit without including Bruce. Thoughts?

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Votto

is a great prospect. So is Bailey. I would do it provided the third prospect is worth something. Drew Stubbs is a guy that comes to mind.

I would however, prefer to get an outfielder like Matt Kemp. I know we cant bank on Bill Rowell and Brandon Snyder, but a third baseman like Votto would complicate things more when those guys are ready than acquiring a player like Kemp.

At this point, I can just see us losing Bedard in two years and getting only draft picks in return, so I'm willing to take anything at this point.

by nittany lion on Dec 9, 2007 1:04 PM EST reply actions

i saw stubbs play a lot

when he was a longhorn at UT austin. i used to be a beat writer for the horns after their championship run, so i got a chance to interview him a few times. if there's one positive personality you want in a clubhouse, it's his.

it doesn't hurt that the kid is a through and through natural.

by The Sicilian on Dec 9, 2007 3:07 PM EST up reply actions

That may very well be true...

...but a 785 OPS in A ball at age 23 isn't particularly impressive. Jeff Fiorentino, for example, has done better than that. If he's the last guy in a trade, maybe, but not as a major piece of anything. Not for Bedard.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 9, 2007 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

Bailey's BB

scare me. Personally, I could live with Votto & Todd Frazier plus a good, Major League proven reliever. Frazier could be MLB ready in a year or two tops and could hopefully take over at SS then.

Friend of the Working Man

by Jonnypops on Dec 9, 2007 1:07 PM EST reply actions

Based on everything I've read...

...the Dodgers and Mariners have offered the most promising package of players. Kemp, Broxton, Kershaw, LaRouche, Delwyn Young, and Loney have all been mentioned, and it would seem as though a package of three of those, plus a single- or double-A position player would make a fantastic (and plausible) offer. With the Mariners I've read about Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Wladimir Balentien, and Morrow being offered in some form or another. Both of teams offer players who have talent spraying from orifices, and have a history of growing star potential players.

The Reds, on the other hand, don't have what the Os want or need: an outfielder. (Along with other parts, obviously) Sure, they're contemplating offering Bailey who may take over Bedard's spot and Votto who'll hit the ball like crazy and play a decent first base, but Josh Hamilton and Encarnacion a good deal does not make. Two players, even with the addition of a Frazier, Stubbs, or Cueto doesn't seem like a fair deal.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2007 2:36 PM EST reply actions

dodgers

is kemp, ethier and loney totally unrealistic for bedard?

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 9, 2007 6:41 PM EST reply actions

Probably

I've said it before but I'd take just Kemp and Loney. Throwing in Kershaw would be icing.

"Hating the Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income taxes." -Mike Royko

by BPinOK on Dec 9, 2007 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

man, we almost had bruce

In 2005, Reds picked one slot ahead of us and the O's wanted Bruce. But alas, we ended up Synder.

by birdman on Dec 9, 2007 7:33 PM EST reply actions

more on this

in sunday's Cincy Enquirer

Though Bedard remains a Baltimore Oriole, the Reds have not given up on him.

In fact, there are people in the organization confident that the deal will get done. One rated the chances at 75 percent.

General manager Wayne Krivsky let trade talks rest Friday. He planned to make calls Saturday night and today.

"We're still talking," he said. "There are still some things out there."

It's not a stretch to say that next season's success hinges on getting someone like Bedard.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 10, 2007 12:32 AM EST reply actions

I think there are pieces there we can work with

Votto needs to be part of the deal. He would be our starting 1B in 2008 and probably our cleanup hitter. When was the last time we had a guy who could both walk and hit for power? Plus, he's Canadian! We can't deal one away without getting another back! He debuted with the Reds in 2005, though, so how many years does that give us before free agency? Also, he turns 25 in 2008, which means his peak is near.

I'm also a little wary of Bailey's control issues, though he can certainly strike guys out and seems to keep the ball in the park. I think I'd take Bruce over Bailey.

Still, as others have said, I think I'd make the deal with Votto plus Bailey plus a third lesser prospect depending on who that 3rd guy is.

by silverstadium on Dec 10, 2007 1:55 PM EST reply actions

Outfielders

Unless they're getting outfield prospects for Tejada, Hernendez, Roberts, Payton, Huff, Millar, Gibby, etc. they're going to demand they get at lest one for Bedard. The outfield is this teams weakest point. They have very little on the farm to that end. If the Os can get a competent, young left and centerfielder, they'll be good for a while and can use Redman or any number of other options as a fourth (possibly a fifth). Not to mention that Reimhold is soon to be up to the task, and he will probably only be a DH/occasional leftfielder.

Votto and Bailey would be great (especially Votto), but that still leaves them with gaping holes in the outfield.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions

i think...

they also have to look for good middle infielders.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 10, 2007 2:51 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

I would also add corner infielders. And starting and relief pitchers.

by silverstadium on Dec 10, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

plus

a catcher. and a batboy. and someone who can water the grass better.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 10, 2007 4:32 PM EST up reply actions

Hey now!

I dig the girl groundskeeper.

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2007 7:33 PM EST up reply actions

I not to crazy about Bruce.

The dude strikesout every four at bats.

by BENNYBIRDMAN on Dec 10, 2007 2:27 PM EST reply actions

Is this a dopey suggestion?

If the O's did any dealing with the Reds would it be appropriate to discuss including Adam Dunn in the deal?

by yurizanow on Dec 10, 2007 3:23 PM EST reply actions

Just my opinion

Normally, I'd be all about getting Dunn, dude can hit, but at this point I think adding a guy who strikes out a ton, isn't good in the field, and has been playing for a while wouldn't help this teams cause.

"Younger, more athletic, more talented." That should be this seasons motto.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

Dunn and his strikeouts

is a very old topic around here.

Dunn is the same age as Erik Bedard and averages 40 home runs and 100 walks a year. That works for me. With those numbers he can strike out all he wants.

Personally, I don't consider strikeouts in themselves the end of the world. They take three pitches and don't usually don't involve double-plays. Except for the occasional sacrifice (which I think good hitters manage anyway even if they do strike out a lot) I don't see how they are worse than getting out with the ball in play.

Others disagree.

by yurizanow on Dec 10, 2007 4:56 PM EST up reply actions

My only problem with Dunn

Is that he's a free agent at the end of 2008, isn't he? I'd rather get guys who we'll control awhile longer.

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2007 7:35 PM EST up reply actions

dunn

He's a free agent at the end of the season. I doubt the O's want a one year rental unless they're given a window to negotiate an extension.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2007 3:53 PM EST up reply actions

oops

I guess I should read the entire page before commenting.

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2007 7:36 PM EST up reply actions

Dunn

Actually, the O's should wait for him to become a free agent rather than trade for him. This way, no prospects are lost and he would be useless for us next year anyways.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2007 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

yeah, but...

wouldn't you probably lose draft picks? i'm also going to guess from looking at him that he's got one of those rapid decline builds.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Dec 10, 2007 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

probably

But I've noticed that teams have been really conservative in offering arbitration despite rising free agent prices. In any case, wouldn't want to lose a draft pick than an established prospect?

by birdman on Dec 10, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

Some of the Reds fans would prefer Haren

see this thread at Red Reporter, and particularly this comment in it.

It's just a question of arrogant self-entitlement against drunken limp-dicked self-loathing--DaBB

by zknower on Dec 10, 2007 4:40 PM EST reply actions

Dunn doesn't fit what the Os are trying to do...

...which is to be young, cheap, flexible, under team control for many years. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Dunn as a player; I'll take 40 dingers and 100 walks no matter how many Ks or what kind of a ham-handed butcher he is in the field. But he's pricey, he's only under contract for a year...doesn't work.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 10, 2007 8:27 PM EST reply actions

Seems like...

...Hiroki Kuroda will go to either the Mariners, Dodgers, or Royals. The loser of that will probably make a run for Bedard. Here's hoping The Royals sign him and there's a bidding war for Bedard.

If that happens, the Reds may have to offer Jay Bruce as well as Bailey and Votto.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 12, 2007 12:48 AM EST reply actions