One and Done - Brian Bob is O's only All-Star

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 6:50 PM EDT in News Comment 49 comments

The (Balitmore) Sun delivers the sad, but not unexpected news - Brian Roberts will be the Orioles' only All-Star in 2007:

Second baseman Brian Roberts was the only Orioles player selected to participate in the 2007 All-Star game in San Francisco.

Roberts' .327 batting average ranks second among American League second basemen, behind Detroit's Placido Polanco (.333).

Roberts leads the AL with 25 stolen bases. He posted a career-high 36 steals last season.

In addition to batting average and steals, Roberts leads the Orioles in several other offensive categories, including runs (50), triples (four) and hits (103).

This will be Roberts' second All-Star appearance. He also made the AL roster in 2005.

Should Bedard or Guthrie have made it? Hard to justify taking 2 or 3 players from a team 10 games below .500, isn't it?

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AL ROSTER

C     Ivan Rodriguez, DET     R/R
1B     David Ortiz, BOS     L/L
2B     Placido Polanco, DET     R/R
3B     Alex Rodriguez, NYY     R/R
SS     Derek Jeter, NYY     R/R
OF     Vladimir Guerrero, LAA     R/R
OF     Magglio Ordonez, DET     R/R
OF     Ichiro Suzuki, SEA     L/R

Pitchers
P     Josh Beckett, BOS     R/R
P     Dan Haren, OAK     R/R
P     Bobby Jenks, CWS     R/R
P     John Lackey, LAA     R/R
P     Gil Meche, KC     R/R
P     Jon Papelbon, BOS     R/R
P     J.J. Putz, SEA     R/R
P     Francisco Rodriguez, LAA     R/R
P     C.C. Sabathia, CLE     L/L
P     Johan Santana, MIN     L/L
P     Justin Verlander, DET     R/R

Reserves
Pos     Player     B/T
C     Victor Martinez, CLE     S/R
C     Jorge Posada, NYY     S/R
1B     Justin Morneau, MIN     L/R
2B     Brian Roberts, BAL     S/R
SS     Carlos Guillen, DET     S/R
SS     Michael Young, TEX     R/R
3B     Mike Lowell, BOS     R/R
OF     Carl Crawford, TB     L/L
OF     Torii Hunter, MIN     R/R
OF     Manny Ramirez, BOS     R/R
OF     Alex Rios, TOR     R/R
OF     Grady Sizemore, CLE     L/L

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

NL ROSTER

Starters
Pos     Player     B/T
C     Russell Martin, LAD     R/R
1B     Prince Fielder, MIL     L/R
2B     Chase Utley, PHI     L/R
3B     David Wright, NYM     R/R
SS     Jose Reyes, NYM     S/R
OF     Carlos Beltran, NYM     S/R
OF     Barry Bonds, SF     L/L
OF     Ken Griffey Jr, CIN     L/L

Pitchers
Pos     Player     B/T
P     Francisco Cordero, MIL     R/R
P     Brian Fuentes, COL     L/L
P     Cole Hamels, PHI     L/L
P     Trevor Hoffman, SD     R/R
P     Jake Peavy, SD     R/R
P     Brad Penny, LAD     R/R
P     Takashi Saito, LAD     R/R
P     Ben Sheets, MIL     R/R
P     John Smoltz, ATL     R/R
P     Jose Valverde, ARI     R/R
P     Billy Wagner, NYM     L/L

Reserves
Pos     Player     B/T
C     Brian McCann, ATL     L/R
1B     Derrek Lee, CHC     R/R
1B     Albert Pujols, STL     R/R
1B     Dmitri Young, WSH     S/R
2B     Orlando Hudson, ARI     S/R
2B     Freddy Sanchez, PIT     R/R
SS     J.J. Hardy, MIL     R/R
3B     Miguel Cabrera, FLA     R/R
OF     Matt Holliday, COL     R/R
OF     Carlos Lee, HOU     R/R
OF     Aaron Rowand, PHI     R/R
OF     Alfonso Soriano, CHC     R/R

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

re:

Should Bedard or Guthrie have made it?

Yes.

Hard to justify taking 2 or 3 players from a team 10 games below .500, isn't it?

No.

It's mostly just in how the roster has to break down with the mandatory every team gets an All-Star bullshit.

"People say losing is easy. Come here and try it." -- Brian Roberts

by SC on Jul 1, 2007 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Next question becomes....

which two pitchers do you take off to put Bedard and Guthrie on?

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guthrie

Is right behind Haren in ERA, and has the league's best WHIP. Assuming a bias towards starters I don't think it's a stretch to say he could legitimately take the place of anyone but Harren.

Regardless, he's from a shitty team and has no name recognition. This bodes poorly for ROY.

by drj on Jul 1, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he doesn't win ROY

he has about 20 people to blame - everyone else on the Orioles except for the other 4 starters.

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there is still 1/2 a season left.

He has to first keep up the work.

by drj on Jul 1, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I would say that both have pitched better than Beckett, although I know Beckett makes it because some in baseball still think that Wins is a meaningful stat for starters. I could also put them above any of the closers; does anyone really think that we need 4 closers in the game??? Is the fourth best closer really more valuable than the eighth best starter???

I also find it surprising that neither are up for the final vote. Okajima??? Are they kidding me??? Halladay??? I would even put both of them in before Bonderman.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm

looking at the roster of AL pitchers, I can see why Guthrie and Bedard were left off. All of the starters are having excellent seasons, and Gil Meche had to represent the Royals. I knew Guthrie had no chance, because of his low number of wins, but I thought Bedard could have made it. Its not that big of a deal though, not like its an outrageous omission.

It pissed me off more that the "Final Vote" deal didnt include them. Bonderman, Escobar, Halladay, Neshek, and Okajima are up for the final spot but not Guthrie/Bedard? Bonderman's ERA is close to 4, Halladay has a 4.27 ERA, and the other two are middle relief.

by UMterp08 on Jul 1, 2007 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

congrats Brian

Its nice to see him get honored. Yeah, I'd have liked Jeremy or Eric make it to but neither really have the wins that the people picking these teams look for.

Who would you take off to get Eric or Jeremy on? I dont see any obvious choices there.

Check out The Sports Note

by InRipkenITrust on Jul 1, 2007 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was

already EXTREMLEY PISSED OFF when i say this i wanted to punch the computer. this is so stupid he is not even on the Final man thingy!

Self declared president of the Jeremy Guthrie fanclub.

by westcoastOfan on Jul 1, 2007 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey WestCoast

Say "HI!" to my parents - they're somewhere in central Oregon right now as they drive across country in their travel trailer. They've already been gone 6 weeks....Just yell "Hi Duck's parents!" and they'll know it's from me.

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

are they

coming through Portland?

Self declared president of the Jeremy Guthrie fanclub.

by westcoastOfan on Jul 1, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, they're going to Northern Cali

so I'm not sure if that's on the way or not.

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

its rigged

by BriSPN on Jul 1, 2007 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what isn't rigged

Read my theory from the old sting. There is an historical theory that states time will cease to exist if there is no longer any conflict!

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Jul 2, 2007 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but seriously

david ortiz at 1st?

and heck even manny as a reserve, there are better defensive players who have some good offense out there that coulda gotten that

and the fact that Brob wasnt even top 5 for AL 2Bs is beyond me....upton?!? cano?? wth

and why so many relief pitchers??

AND WHY LACKEY??????????????????????????????

seriously are the voters drunk while filling out these ballots???

by BriSPN on Jul 1, 2007 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

no

they are bandwagon jumpers

Self declared president of the Jeremy Guthrie fanclub.

by westcoastOfan on Jul 1, 2007 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

AND WHY LACKEY??????????????????????????????

Because he's really good?

"People say losing is easy. Come here and try it." -- Brian Roberts

by SC on Jul 1, 2007 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And isn't he leading the AL in wins?

Or at least close?

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

yeah so would guthrie or bedard probably if we could score some frikin runs for them

by BriSPN on Jul 1, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

i know he just annoys me lol

by BriSPN on Jul 1, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you seen this?

PITCHER      W     L     ERA     IP     K
J Bonderman    8    1    3.90    90.0    82
K Escobar    9    3    3.32    100.1    80
R Halladay    9    3    4.27    103.1    65
P Neshek    3    0    1.37    39.1    47
H Okajima    2    0    0.92    39.0    35
B Burres 4 2 3.38 64 53
J Guthrie 4 2 2.63 96 69
E Berard 6 4 3.36 107 129

wonder my bonderman is there?
i know.

these is total bull shit.

in case you are wondering it is the final man voting

Self declared president of the Jeremy Guthrie fanclub.

by westcoastOfan on Jul 1, 2007 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All of those fuckin Boston and New York Fans......

that's such bullshit. Half of them probably don't even watch baseball.

Geaux Eaux's

by NawlinsOriole on Jul 1, 2007 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Doesn't this pink jersey go great ...

with my earrings?"

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean

All the Boston fans who voted in precisely one player?

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 2, 2007 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it has been a popularity contest

for as long as I can remember. I mean A-Rod, maybe so, but Jeter? Give me a fuckin' break!

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Jul 2, 2007 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Sheehan says....

....that Brian didn't even deserve it.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=429

Check out The Sports Note

by InRipkenITrust on Jul 1, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Screw him

B-Rob deserved to go.

by duck on Jul 1, 2007 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll go out on a limb here

Without having looked up the comparable stats, I bet you Roberts compares favorably, if not better than Cabrera (a SS mind you) in the normalized statistical mensurements (like OPS+, VORP, etc).

by drj on Jul 1, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Sheehan can suck it.

http://2632.blogspot.com

by 2632 on Jul 1, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

An amazing statement

"Sensible roster construction would allow Orlando Cabrera, clearly more deserving than Roberts, to make the team, even if it would mean someone plays a few innings out of position. "

Okay, Cabrera has a significantly lower OBP, identical SLG%, fewer SB's, and maybe more significantly, is a friggin SS; and he's saying that Cabrera is CLEARLY more deserving? And then he doesn't even explain how he could argue that a player that plays a different position with lesser stats is clearly more deserving?

Uh, okay.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Sheehan is a smart guy, but this statement is stupid. Roberts is by far the best second baseman in the American League and is probably second only to Utley in the majors.

Orlando Cabrera is the third-best shortstop in the American League who got blocked by the rules including Michael Young, who is having a crap season. Blame the one player per team rule for Young blocking Cabrera, but don't blame the clearly deserving Brian Roberts. Come on, Joe, you're better than that.

"People say losing is easy. Come here and try it." -- Brian Roberts

by SC on Jul 2, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BJ Upton is a pretty damn good 2B

His defense isn't very good but his bat is better than Roberts.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Upton's glove is ludicrous. Not that Roberts is Robbie Alomar or anything. Roberts also adds actual effective base-stealing. If he had hitters behind him, his speed would actually be creating runs. And I'm not dissing Upton (or Placido Polanco).

"People say losing is easy. Come here and try it." -- Brian Roberts

by SC on Jul 2, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

best 2B

I can't decide between Roberts or Upton. Upton is better bat wise but Roberts is better defense wise. Upton may move to CF once he comes off the DL so it may not matter soon.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I barely even consider Upton a second basemen; this is the only year he's even played the position, and he has played the OF this year as well. I think the chances of Upton finishing the year with 2B as his primary position are pretty slim.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bedard got boned

Seriously, he deserved to at least be on the final man voting roster. He's having a better year then any of those other pitchers. Sucks playing for a shitastic team.

by NewOrioleWork on Jul 2, 2007 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If home field means anything, take Guthrie

or even Bedard over Bonderman et al. Basically, baseball needs to decide what the point of the All-Star game is. If it's to entertain, great, take the Gil Meches of the world, who cares. But since Series home-field advantage is at stake, which is reasonably important, take the best players you can get your hands on.

This means, for pitchers, forget wins (which are clearly derivative of run support) and look only at a pitcher's individual performance. And Guthrie has clearly been one of the two or three best starters in the AL.

One of the writers on our blog argues this better than me...
http://weritegoode.blogspot.com/2007/07/great-mormons-in-sports.html

by crucifictorious on Jul 2, 2007 12:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Phillies

I think it's even more strange who did and didn't make it for the Phillies. They didn't take Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins; but did take Cole Hamels and Aarron Rowand.

Hamels' ERA is nearly 4 and he's pitching in the NL. Rowand's having a very good year; but he is really one of the top 7 OF'ers??? Then Rollins is hitting .285 with 14 HR's and 15 SB's as a SS (granted his OBP is horrible). Howard is the reigning MVP, with 19 HR's while missing 2-3 weeks, I would have guessed he makes it as well.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he will at least...

be able to defend his hr derby crown. that's really all i watch anymore, anyways.

by jq higgins on Jul 2, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

GUTS!!!

Yeah, I keep hearing people saying how Guthrie ONLY has 4 wins, how is he an All-Star? To me if you're looking at W-L to determine All-Star pitchers, L's tell more of the story than W's. People should be saying "How is he NOT an All-Star, he only has 2 L's?!?" And with the run-support he's been getting, only 2 L's speaks even louder to his All-Star status.

Fear The STACHE!

by dayzd toe on Jul 2, 2007 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I think that neither Wins nor Losses give much of any indication of how well a pitcher has performed.

What other stat can be determined 3 innings after the player has left the game?

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I'm saying...

IF you're only to going look at W-L's like so many people seem to do, in my opinion L's are more significant. They are the stat, of the two, that can't necessarily be affected by the bullpen, so the fact that Guthrie, with the support that he's not gotten, only has 2 L's in 10 or 12 or however many starts speaks volumes for him as an All-Star.

Fear The STACHE!

by dayzd toe on Jul 2, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Although losses can be effected by the bullpen, you can lose a loss with good pen support (and help from the offense).

I was looking at Matsuzaka's stats the other day, and I think he may have actually pitched better in his losses than he has in his wins.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

L's are very significant for relievers

A reliever has to give up the go-ahead run to the other team to take the loss, and if a reliever does that they deserve it. It's true for a starter, too, but a starter taking a 0-1 or 2-1 loss is often more of a victim than a cause.

by punkrawka on Jul 2, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

For a reliever though, if he comes in with no outs, bases loaded and a tie game, chances are he's going to be on the hook for the loss. Thats an extreme case, but you get the point. Then there are a ton of cases where a reliever can pitch terribly and not get a Loss. And there are times that the pitcher of record changes after the reliever leaves the game. Why would it make any sense for an individual's performance to change after they have left the game???

I know it's the way it's always been done, and this isn't really the point of this diary, but to me it makes no sense to use a team stat like W/L to evaluate a pitcher.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Totally agree. Would say, there is one other factor with W-L record that does matter: it can reflect the starter's ability to go deep. When you have a weak 'pen, a true all-star pitcher should eat 7-8 innings per night...taking the game out of the relievers' hands.

But you're right, pitchers should be judged on what they can (mostly) control: ERA, k/9, # of bbs, etc.

by crucifictorious on Jul 2, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

It can reflect his ability to go deep, but doesn't necessarily. Look at Guthrie as a perfect example, he goes deep, but has less than half the number of decisions as he does starts. Wouldn't it make more sense to just take the average number of innings per start to determine how deep they go?

If we had no other way to look at things like how well he pitched, or how deep he goes; then I guess W/L would be some indication; but there are far better ways to determine this.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jul 2, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs