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All-Star break news roundup

Like the players, I took a few days off to do nothing. Things happened, and tomorrow it's back to the grind, man.

Ichiro is close to a five-year, $100 million extension with Seattle. Erm, holy shit? 20 million clams a year for a singles hitter? Ichiro is a great singles hitter, but that is a whole lot of money. And could Alex Rodriguez even consider for a moment not testing the open market if Ichiro -- who is older and has far less overall impact -- is getting that much money? Buster Olney speculated that A-Rod would get $30 million a year if he made himself available. I'd have to agree. There are only a couple of teams that could pay that, but he could get it.

Travis Hafner got four years and $57 million from the Indians.

Ricky Henderson will be taking over as the Mets' hitting coach, which sounds silly on the surface given Rickey's, you know, Rickey-ness, but he's one of the smartest and best baseball players to ever live. Just because he's not the world's best public speaker or the sharpest knife in the crayon box doesn't mean he doesn't know baseball. Mike Tyson is no Oxford graduate, but the man is a student of boxing and knows the game inside and out. Rickey is kind of the same way with baseball, I would guess.

He worked with Jose Reyes prior to the 2006 season on the art of being an effective leadoff hitter, and Reyes improved greatly, going from being a total hacker to a guy that saw pitches a lot better. He wasn't exactly more patient, but he knew better WHEN to swing. It wasn't a change in philosophy so much as a tweaking and bettering of the current one. That seems effective to me. Plus, the guy is just funny as all hell.

In other hitting coach news, Rick Schu will take over for Kevin Seitzer in Arizona. Seitzer was a much better player than Schu. Other than that, I have no real opinion.

Dr. Douchebag Shea Hillenbrand has cleared waivers.

David Ortiz is going to have an MRI on his right knee, and rumors are floating around that Oakland's Dan Johnson could be headed to Boston, which may be related. The Yankees are also interested. It's not that the A's dislike Johnson, they just want to promote Daric Barton. Plus, with the A's underperforming, they're in sell mode. Mike Piazza is also on the market, since Jack Cust is more than capable of filling the DH role. Shannon Stewart will also likely go. In Cincinnati, Ken Griffey, Jr., and Adam Dunn could be on the trade block, but both will be tough to sell -- not because they aren't good, but because of their contracts. Griffey is owed a bunch of money, and Dunn's contract voids at the end of the year if he's dealt.

Albert Pujols is whining about not playing in the All-Star game. La Russa doesn't want to hear it, and says he was holding Albert back in case the game went long, because Pujols has positional flexibility. Good enough reason for me and the other millions of baseball fans who couldn't give a shit about the All-Star game.

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we just had a whole debate about the offensive purpose of a baseball player: to not get out.  ichiro does that better than just about anybody.  so what if he can't hit homers?  he's worth every penny.

hafner got robbed.

pujols should be "whining."  whether or not you like the all-star game, this is perhaps the dumbest thing la russa has ever said.  and remember, this guy once said, "The best way to keep yourself competitive is not to change anything. Right now we're trying to grind out wins and win the division." and "When something like that happens, you put the other club in a bad position, so it's better not to put the club in a bad position, ... But I think my understanding is they understand it was unintentional."

right.

ok, here's the thing.  you're down by 1.  rowand screws up and it's over.  and you have the BEST HITTER IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE ON YOUR BENCH!  why is this even a question?  

"oh, sorry guys!  i know i'm a police officer, but i left my gun in the car, in case the robber meets me out there!"

god FORBID soriano should have to play center field.

i tell you, when the angels or indians make the world series this year, they damn sure better send a thank you card to la russa.

Pitch fast, throw strikes, change speeds. -Ray Miller

by madhatternalice on Jul 12, 2007 5:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re:
we just had a whole debate about the offensive purpose of a baseball player: to not get out.  ichiro does that better than just about anybody.  so what if he can't hit homers?  he's worth every penny.

Ichiro's OBP while hitting .359 is .410. Kevin Millar's OBP is .395. Would you pay Kevin Millar, oh, $15 million a season? Ichiro is a super player and he's worth plenty of money, but not this much.

pujols should be "whining."

He doesn't have to do it in public. I find La Russa's explanation logical if flawed. But I find everything about the All-Star game to be flawed so whatever.

Junior in '08

by SC on Jul 12, 2007 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re:
i'm sorry...i should have stated my case for ichiro more clearly...

last year (which wasn't even his best year), ichiro stole 45 bases and was caught twice.

do you know what ichiro's VORP was last year?

46.4.

ichiro, by virtue of his offense AND defense, was worth 46.4 more runs than "someone else."  that's worth a WARP of 6.6.  He's far and away the most valuable offensive weapon on that team.

now, beyond that, ichiro has a HUGE following in japan.  mariners merchendise not only sells like crazy over there, but the mariners get much more exposure in that market BECAUSE of ichiro.

all that taken into accounto, and (to me) the contract is worth it, to keep someone who draws a lot of fans into that ballpark to watch a highly quizzical and shitty team.

ichiro is what the media has made darren erstad out to be (or maybe david eckstein).  except ichiro is, you know, a REALLY good baseball player.

you're absolutely right about pujols.  pipken reminded me about his bitching about howard last year.  the boy, no matter how justified he was this time, should learn to keep his mouth shut.

for the record, i don't think an MVP should be from a "winning" team.  look at A-Rod in texas in 2003.  he was, in my mind, the best baseball player in the league (if not the sport).  it's certainly not his fault if there isn't a decent team around him.  in fact, it speaks to his abilities that he can put up those kinds of numbers WITHOUT a decent team around him.

but that's a debate for another time.

Pitch fast, throw strikes, change speeds. -Ray Miller

by madhatternalice on Jul 12, 2007 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might
want to use a little context for your VORPing there dude.  Ichiro was 40th in VORP, behind Ray Durham, Robinson Cano, Rafael Furcal, Jason Giambi, Gary Matthews, Jr., and Nick Johnson.  So, like, so what.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 12, 2007 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro
I was shocked about the Ichiro's extension.  Ichiro does two things very well.  He's fast as hell and he can hit single and doubles like a madman.  Unless you're Ricky Henderson and few other exceptions, speed does not age well.  Consequently, his defense and base stealing skills could go down the tubes fast.  His hitting skills should be able to remain over time but his OBP is almost always tied his hitting since he's not a guy who takes alot of walks.  Consequently, unless he's hitting .350 to .370, his OPS dips down into really mediocre levels (see 2003, 2005-2006).  $20 million dollar per year for a guy who could hit .790 OPS with decling speed just seems excessive.    

by birdman on Jul 12, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how did hafner get robbed?
He signed the contracct. He gave the hometown discount. Sounds to me like this is a dude who knows where he wants to stay, knows that he can be perfectly happy being worth $50 million rather than 75 or 100 or whatever and so made the deal that makes sense to him.

Yeah, the market probably undervalues him, but he's also a guy with no position who'll make at least 50 million over his career. I'm not crying for him.

by pipkin on Jul 12, 2007 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
again, i wasn't clear.  these things happen when you can't sleep at 4am. my apologies.

hafner could have signed for much more, and maybe should have held out for more.  but he wants to stay in cleveland, apparently, so kudos to him for taking the home-team discount.

Pitch fast, throw strikes, change speeds. -Ray Miller

by madhatternalice on Jul 12, 2007 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols
I've lost a lot of respect for him every time he goes public with his complaints.  Not getting face time in an exhibition game, yeah I understand, but keep it private.  And complaining about Howard getting the MVP last year because his team "didn't win" (even though they won more games than the Cardinals), was just the height of stupidity.  The guy's obviously an amazing talent, but he needs someone telling him when to keep his mouth shut with a reporter.

by punkrawka on Jul 12, 2007 6:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro
You have to wonder how much other factors besides just Ichiro's on field performance--which has been awesome since day one, obviously--play into the contract discussions. I lived in Japan a couple of years ago, and I can't express how HUGE Ichiro is over there. I wouldn't hesistate to say that he is without a doubt the most famous Japanese person not currently living on the islands.

The international exposure he brings to MLB is simply massive. He's also THE franchise player for the Mariners--its really really hard to imagine Ichiro wearing another team's jeresy. Also, his presence/association with the Mariners will help make Seattle an even more attractive place for Jpnese players who want to leap the pond in the future.

I'd say with all that in mind, I can see why the discussion has reached the 5 year, 100 mill plateau.

As so much of his game is based on speed, and speed is usually one of the first things to go, I do suspect that contract will probably bite the Mariners for its last few years. Then again, ensuring that Ichiro goes into the hall of fame wearing a Seattle jersey is probably worth a few bucks, too...

by NewOrioleWork on Jul 12, 2007 7:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

honestly...
you have to believe that the m's could alsmost take a lot of the revenue that ichiro generates from japanese advertsisers and funnel it directly into the ichiro contract slush fund.

much like w/ godzilla and dice k, you have to think the ichiro contract will, at least in part pay for itself.

by jq higgins on Jul 12, 2007 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hafner
is a steal at that price.  

by Jonnypops on Jul 12, 2007 7:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tyson analogy...
Just because he's not the world's best public speaker or the sharpest knife in the crayon box doesn't mean he doesn't know baseball. Mike Tyson is no Oxford graduate, but the man is a student of boxing and knows the game inside and out

Watching a Tyson interview, it was weird - he'd sound like a thug, and then a boxing history question would come up, and he'd sound like Bert Sugar. It was like a light had suddenly been switched on. He knew EVERYONE - lightweights from the 30s, middleweights from the 50s, he knew them ALL, their styles, who they'd beaten and lost to, and how they won. It was amazing. Hopefully, Rickey is like that with baseball and hitting.


"The possibilities are legion."

by duck on Jul 12, 2007 8:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re:
"He worked with Jose Reyes prior to the 2006 season on the art of being an effective leadoff hitter, and Reyes improved greatly, going from being a total hacker to a guy that saw pitches a lot better. He wasn't exactly more patient, but he knew better WHEN to swing."

So who wants to set up a little lunch date for Ricky Henderson and Corey Patterson?

by punkrawka on Jul 12, 2007 8:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

$20 million?
For a 34 year old hitter who relies on his speed? What happens if he loses a step or two on the base path as he ages? I think $20 mil is gonna look like a bad deal in two years.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 9:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rickey-ness
FromSour Grapes, last year.
Tuesday, September 19, 2006
Rickey-isms

There was a great piece by Lou Blasi in today's Fantistics update. They have some pretty good writers at Fantistics, though they tend sometimes to be a little to into statistics for my tastes. But when Lou writes stuff like this (actually, he just quoted someone else, but at least he published it so I could see it), it makes finishing out of the money almost worthwhile.

Apparently Rickey is the Yogi of his era. Lou was reminiscing about one of his first ever fantasy baseball superstars, Rickey Henderson. I quote:

The following stories come from a blog post I ran across last month. I wish I knew who collected and posted his top 25 Rickey stories so I could give him credit. As it is all I can do is thank him for the memories ...

1) Rickey... on referring to himself in the third person:
"Listen, people are always saying, `Rickey says Rickey.' But it's been blown way out of proportion. People might catch me, when they know I'm ticked off, saying, `Rickey, what the heck are you doing, Rickey?' They say, `Darn, Rickey, what are you saying Rickey for? Why don't you just say, `I?' But I never did. I always said, `Rickey,' and it became something for people to joke about."

  1. In the early 1980s, the Oakland A's accounting department was freaking out. The books were off $1 million. After an investigation, it was determined Rickey was the reason why. The GM asked him about a $1 million bonus he had received and Rickey said instead of cashing it, he framed it and hung it on a wall at his house.
  2. In 1996, Henderson's first season with San Diego, he boarded the team bus and was looking for a seat. Steve Finley said, "You have tenure, sit wherever you want." Henderson looked at Finley and said, "Ten years? Ricky's been playing at least 16, 17 years."
  3. This one might be my second favorite. This wasn't too long ago, I think it was the year he ended up playing with the Red Sox. Anyway, he called San Diego GM Kevin Towers and left the following message: "This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
  4. This one happened in Seattle. Rickey struck out and as the next batter was walking past him, he heard Henderson say, "Don't worry, Rickey, you're still the best."
  5. Rickey once asked a teammate how long it would take him to drive to the Dominican Republic.
  6. Moments after breaking Lou Brock's stolen base record, Henderson told the crowd - with Brock mere feet next to him - "Lou Brock was a great base stealer, but today, I am the greatest of all-time."
  7. Henderson once fell asleep on an ice pack and got frostbite - which forced him to miss three games -- in mid-August.
  8. A reporter asked Henderson if Ken Caminiti's estimate that 50 percent of Major League players were taking steroids was accurate. His response was, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49 percent right there."
  9. Henderson broke Ty Cobb's career record for runs scored with a home run. After taking his usual 45 seconds or so around the bases, Rickey slid into home plate.
  10. On being Nolan Ryan's 5,000th career strikeout: "It gave me no chance. He (Ryan) just blew it by me. But it's an honor. I'll have another paragraph in all the baseball books. I'm already in the books three or four times."
  11. San Diego GM Kevin Towers was trying to contact Rickey at a nearby hotel. He knew Henderson always used fake names to avoid the press, fans, etc. He was trying to think like Rickey and after several attempts; he was able to get Henderson on the phone.
Rickey had checked in under Richard Pryor.

13) I didn't believe this one at first. However, I emailed a few contacts within the Sox organization and they claim it actually happened. This is priceless, it really is.
The morning after the Sox finished off the sweep against St. Louis last October, Henderson called someone in the organization looking for tickets to Game 6 at Fenway Park.

14) The Mets were staying in a hotel less than a mile from Cinergy Field in Cincinnati. While some players walked, most took the team bus. A few minutes after they arrived -- again it was less than a mile - the last players off the bus noticed a stretched limo that had just pulled up.
Of course, Rickey emerged from the back seat.

  1. A reporter once asked Rickey if he talked to himself, "Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?"
  2. OK, I know everyone has been waiting for it. Alas, according to both parties involved, it's not true. I wish it were. Heck, both Rickey Henderson and John Olerud have said they wish it were true. But it just didn't happen.
The story went that a few weeks into Henderson's stint with the Mariners, he walked up to Olerud at the batting cage and asked him why he wore a batting helmet in the field. Olerud explained that he had an aneurysm at nine years old and he wore the helmet for protection. Legend goes that Henderson said, "Yeah, I used to play with a guy that had the same thing."
Legend also goes that Olerud said, "That was me, Rickey."

Henderson played with Olerud on the Blue Jays and the Mets.

  1. Rickey was asked if he had the Garth Brooks album with Friends in Low Places and Henderson said, "Rickey doesn't have albums. Rickey has CDs."
  2. During a contract holdout with Oakland in the early 1990s, Henderson said, "If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I'll play like Gallego."
  3. In the late 1980s, the Yankees sent Henderson a six-figure bonus check. After a few months passed, an internal audit revealed the check had not been cashed. Current Yankees GM Brian Cashman - then a low-level nobody with the organization - called Rickey and asked if there was a problem with the check. Henderson said, "I'm just waiting for the money market rates to go up."
  4. In June 1999, when Henderson was playing with the Mets, he saw reporters running around the clubhouse before a game. He asked a teammate what was going on and he was told that Tom Robson, the team's hitting coach, had just been fired. Henderson said, "Who's he?"
  5. This is my all-time favorite. Rickey was pulled over by a San Diego police officer for speeding. As the officer was approaching Rickey's car, the window went down a few inches and a folded $100 bill emerged. The officer let Rickey and his money head home without a ticket.
  6. When he was on the Yankees in the mid-1980s, Henderson told teammates that his condo had such a great view that he could see, "The Entire State Building."
  7. During one of his stays with Oakland, Henderson's locker was next to Billy Beane's. After making the team out of spring training, Beane was sent to the minors after a few months. Upon his return, about six weeks later, Henderson looked at Beane and said, "Hey, man, where have you been? Haven't seen you in awhile."
  8. To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky's the best," for several minutes.
  9. In the last week of his lone season with the Red Sox, Chairman Tom Werner asked Henderson what he would like for his `going-away' gift. Henderson said he wasn't going anywhere, but he would like owner John Henry's Mercedes. Werner said it would be tough to get the same make and model in less than a week and Henderson said, "No, I want his car." Turns out the Sox got Henderson a Red Thunderbird and when he saw it on the field before the last game of the season, Rickey said, "Whose ugly car is on the field?"

Quality stuff, just quality.


by dayzd toe on Jul 12, 2007 11:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mickey Rivers was pretty good...
...with the unintentionally brilliant quotes. He allegedly told Reggie Jackson, who had gotten on the team bus in a fancy on-the-town wardrope, "Who do you think you are, Sir Walter Winchell?"

by tbone shelby on Jul 12, 2007 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Ricky
From when he was with NYY...

Bobby Murcer: Ricky squares AGAIN. Low and outside. Ricky dodged a bullet there.

Phil Rizzuto: Gee, you think [on deck hitter] Randolph or someone should tell him there are 2 strikes?

Bobby Murcer: They probably don't want to interrupt the conversation he's having with his bat.

"You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever." - Ron White

by Sluggo on Jul 12, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts On Rickey and A-Rod
As I'm sure many of you do, I remember most of Rickey Henderson's career pretty vividly and I think it's interesting how time has made him more appealing than he was in his day.  Today we all laugh about him referring to himself in the third person and being a total space cadet, but back in the late-1980's/early 1990's it was considered proof that he was the biggest asshole in the universe.  Whenever he came to Yankee Stadium he was booed like he was a war criminal until the end of his career, even though he played well for the Yankees and they traded him away.

As for A-Rod, living in New York I'm forced to listen to moronic Yankee fans talk about how A-Rod isn't a true Yankee and how much better they would be without him.  This is insane and proof that the average Yankee fan is lacking upstairs.  I always say, "send him to the Orioles, we'll be happy to take him off your hands."  Then again, they've been doing this this kind of thing forever.  The New York fans bitched, moaned, and booed at Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Duke Synder, Mickey Mantle, and Reggie Jackson at one time or another.  They've never been happy unless they're shitting on their best players.  Morons

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 11:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Booing A-Rod
That's insanity. The guy is the best player on the team, no matter how many fans want to believe that it's Jeter. Look, I think A-Rod seems like a pretty decent guy, and I'd welcome him on the Orioles. A-rod, if you're reading this, if you come to the O's, I promise never to boo you, unless you consistently suck like Jay Gibbons.
Cross my heart.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yankee fans are twisted
Some of the people dearest to me are Yankee fans, and last year when A-Rod was getting booed mercilessly I told them they were nuts to boo one of the best baseball players in history. Then in April when he was tearing it up I said to them, "Where are the boos? Now everyone just LOVES him." And my friend said, "I'm not done judging him yet. We'll see how he does in October." I look back on that now and giggle, because, hee hee, the Yankees probably won't even be there! And next year A-Rod will probably play for the Angels.

by Stacey on Jul 12, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Judging him in October...
Yeah, they'll be judging him in October when he opts out and signs a new deal elsewhere.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further appeals to A-Rod
Here are some things I would guarantee if A-Rod played for the Orioles:

If you step out on your wife, your picture won't be splashed on the front page of the Baltimore Sun.

You can play third, short, or alternate between them as you see fit.

No one will say your not a "true Oriole".  Henceforth, you will be the standard of trueness that all other Orioles are judged by.

You won't have to stay with the team, travel with the team, or talk to your teammates.

You can have any fans that boo you killed and no court in Maryland will indict you for anything.

You can also have whatever number you want, Ripken's, Murray's, Erik Bedard's, whatever, it's yours.

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Typo
I put "your" instead of "you're".

For this I am deeply ashamed.

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen...
Testify, brother.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

short of the retired number bit,
sure. bring it on, alex.
http://2632.blogspot.com

by 2632 on Jul 12, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod
  Wherever A-Rod goes, failure follows.  There are a variety of excuses...stemming from the majority of the other players slacking off because "A-Rod can win it for us" to the idea that he is a jinx.  It is a warm glow that I feel every time I recall all of the glorious victories this (now) overpaid superstar has brought to Seattle, Texas and New York.

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Jul 12, 2007 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Unless you're Cousin Oliver, there is no jinx
A-Rod should be the highest paid player in baseball because he's unquestionably the best player in baseball.  That's the free market in action right there.  

I can't think of any examples of other players slacking off because A-Rod arrives.  Most of the Seattle teams he played on were decent enough considering their lousy pitching.  Griffey, Buhner, and Martinez certainly did well for themselves as did John Olerud, Mike Cameron, and some other guys.  The Rangers had even worse pitching than the Mariners, thus did poorly despite I-Rod and Palmeiro playing pretty well.  The Yankees won their division the first two years A-Rod has been there, so you really can't complain there.  The reason they blow now is because their older declining players are playing like older declining players (except for Jorge Posada).  The players that didn't play well with A-Rod did so because they were never good players to begin with or were declining.  I see no evidence of an "A-Rod effect".

One guy can't make a huge difference to the success or failure of a baseball team.  The best seasons players have ever had (like Babe Ruth in 1920) count for maybe 17 wins.  While A-Rod was on the Rangers they finished 43, 31, and 25 games out of first place.  Look at all the great players who never won it all or only won one championship:  Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Pete Alexander, Walter Johnson, Rogers Hornsby, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Rickey Henderson and dozens more.  They don't win or lose because they are "winners" or "losers", they do because they are on good teams.  It's not like football or basketball where one or two guys can fundamentally change the fortunes of a team or an otherwise crummy team.

I would love to have A-Rod on the Orioles.  He's an amazing player who keeps getting better.

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
I'd take that loser on my team anyday.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind...
....him bringing some of that "failure" here....
This is not even a logo of the Baltimore Orioles baseball club

by Chanumas on Jul 12, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod & the playoffs
May be he sucked, but he sure wasn't the only one. For the last 3 post seasons the only hitters in the NYY lineup who weren't absolutely putrid were the guys with the 4 rings.
"You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever." - Ron White

by Sluggo on Jul 12, 2007 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There was a great article I read
in firejoemorgan.com that posted a complete lineup of Hall of Fame or future Hall of Fame players who had two horrible postseason series in a row.  Ones as bad as or worse than as A-Rod's last two.  I can't remember everyone on it, but Jeter not only had one, but one but two separate stretches of consecutive shitty postseasons.

Once again, send his shitty ass down to Baltimore.  Let him suck there for awhile.

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what was the argument about?
  Oh that is right...A-Rod not being worth the large quantity of money for what he produces.  
  Yourizanow...who on that list gets paid as much as A-Rod?
  Sluggo...you backed up one of my original arguments about having A-Rod on a team causes the other players not to try.
  The key to success for a mid-market team like Baltimore is development of strength through the farm system.  Spending money on high-priced free agents is the wrong idea and has never worked in the past.
  It is nice to know that there are some other real fans...arguing anything with you idiots is pointless.  

by Born Under a Bad Moon on Jul 12, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re:
Sluggo...you backed up one of my original arguments about having A-Rod on a team causes the other players not to try.

????

The key to success for a mid-market team like Baltimore is development of strength through the farm system.  Spending money on high-priced free agents is the wrong idea and has never worked in the past.

Well, the '96/'97 Orioles mercenary teams were pretty good, and I don't recall anyone being too upset with them. It has worked, and it can work. It just has to be a consistent effort instead of one guy (hello, Texas), and it has to be the right guys.

I agree that they absolutely have to do a better job of building from within, and that that is the wisest avenue for turning the franchise around.

arguing anything with you idiots is pointless.

Look, we all argue but name-calling is really well-avoided for the most part, and I'd prefer it stay that way, OK? And I welcome your posts no matter if I disagree with them or if anyone else does, so please just keep it civil.

Junior in '08

by SC on Jul 12, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that's just not very nice
Nobody called you an idiot.

No one is suggesting A-Rod is coming to the Orioles nor that the Orioles should spend time trying to get him, which would obviously be pointless.  We were just indulging in the fantasy that the best player in baseball might play in Baltimore.

It is just silly to think that decent players get worse with A-Rod around.  Silly, silly, silly.  Show me some stats of guys worth a shit who played well outside of A-Rod's influence and poorly with him around and don't pull up Rickey Henderson or Johnny Damon or some other old man.

Just because a guy is the highest paid player in the league doesn't mean he's going to perform every single time.  That's not how it works.  It never has been.  Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player of all time and was the highest paid in his day by by a higher percentage than A-Rod now.  Check out his stats in the 1922 World Series or his entire 1925 season, at times in his prime he was pathetic.  The same is true of Willie Mays in the 1951 and 1962 World Series and I could go on with others. Check out A-Rod's three postseason series before his current slump (when everybody else on the Yanks sucked in the postseason too), it's pretty impressive.

If you think you're a real baseball fan because you believe in jinxes and great players dragging down the performance of his teammates, that's your business, but you don't have to call me an idiot.

by yurizanow on Jul 12, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said anything about not trying???
Gary Sheffield didn't try? As much of a pain in the ass as he can sometimes be, on the field he always gives whatever his health will allow.

Robby Cano didn't try? A kid who got his every day spot in the lineup only because the Tony Womack deal was a bust.

Hideki Matsui didn't try? Please, spare me.

Mule muffins. They just had bad post seasons.

As their manager said, "I've hit .363 and I've hit .247. I was trying just as hard both seasons."

And if memory serves me right, nowhere did I endorse the Os making an attempt to sign A-Rod. I have no way of knowing if it would be a good move. If they plan to blow it all up and start next year with a whole new everything, then he would be an ideal centrepiece to build the team around for the next 5-8 years. But if they plan to just tinker around the edges and act if he's their "one player away from contending", then it's a waste of PO's money and our time.

"You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever." - Ron White

by Sluggo on Jul 12, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trying harder
I would venture say that man would tell you he was probably trying HARDER in his .247 season... maybe pressing to hard or something.  I agree, stats don't necessarily show effort.

by dayzd toe on Jul 13, 2007 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your argument is specious...
Yes, of course a team needs to develop young players through their farm system, but a healthy dose of outside additions is not unheard of. To whit - the last six World Series teams:

2006 St. Louis Cardinals-
Mulder, Carpenter, Suppan, Isringhausen, Eckstein, Rolen, Edmonds, Encarnacion.

2006 Detroit Tigers-
Jones, Rogers, Rodriguez, Casey, Guillen, Ordonez

2005 Chicago White Sox-
Contreras, Hernandez, Garcia, Dye, Everett, Posednik

2005 Houston Astros -
Clemens, Petitte, Ausmus

2004 Boston Red Sox-
Lowe, Martinez, Schilling, Ortiz, Ramirez, Damon,

2004 St. Louis Cardinals-
Carpenter, Marquis, Suppan, Williams, Womack, Renteria, Edmonds, Isringhausen

Of these teams, only the Astros had significant more players come up through the system. Similarly, I believe the Orioles are developing some pitchers capable of contributing to the major league roster, as well as the likes of Markakis and Roberts.

by RobG on Jul 12, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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