Reflecting on today

by nittany lion on Aug 23, 2007 12:42 AM EDT

Today was tough. I dont think anyone will argue with that. Even Jim Hunter lost some enthusiasm by the end of game 2. But where do we go from here? What significance did the results have on our team? Obviously today's game didn't affect our playoff chances, and though it hurt our quest to finish third and have a winning record, it was only two games.

The first game obviously was a bit embarassing, but it had to be expected, given Paul Shuey and Rob Bell's continued presence in our bullpen. The second game though, was what did it for me, as it was yet another late rally quashed by the ineptitude of our bullpen aces. It's one thing when your mop up guys let a 10-3 game become a 30-3 game, it's another when your alleged best pitchers blow leads, time and time again.

I'm sad to say my attitude right now is similar to the one I had during that first series with Seattle, when we blew a bunch of leads and started the run of poor play that ended with Perlozzo losing his job.

I think that's where the significance of today lies. Will Trembley be able to keep this team's morale up? At this time of year, something like this can cause the type of tailspin we know all to well around these parts, and I think that the team's performance over the next couple days will be a good indicator of Trembley's ability to manage the Orioles.

Days like today happen in baseball, it's the good teams that overcome them to play solid over the course of a season.

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Comments

On the plus side....

It can't get any worse.

by BENNYBIRDMAN on Aug 23, 2007 7:25 AM EDT reply actions

Hmmm

I heard that in 2005.

by drj on Aug 23, 2007 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions

re:

Days like today happen in baseball

This is a first in the modern baseball era. This was embarrassing, with the media and fans once again getting to laugh at the Orioles.

I guess everyone is waiting to see if this was the beginning of the late season swoon. Trembley is named manager for 2008 and the team takes a spectacular beating. The O's have to react. Can Shuey. Is Doyne still alive. What can be done with Cabrera.

Oh well, we'll see if they are able to come back on time, with a professional attitude and respect for the game. I really wonder.

by drj on Aug 23, 2007 8:02 AM EDT reply actions

Really

SOMEONE has to be cut for last night's embarassment. There's not a single guy in our farm system who would've done worse than Burres, Shuey or Bell last night.

Blowouts do happen in baseball, but there's a big difference between 15-3 and 30-3. One is a routine blowout and the other is historic ineptitude.

by punkrawka on Aug 23, 2007 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed...

Not to seem reactionary, but one of the offending pitchers needs to lose his job.
ESPN had the full circle jerk about the drubbing. It was truly embarrassing. But more demoralizing was losing the second game.

by RobG on Aug 23, 2007 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions

RE:

Exactly, winning the second game would have made up for a lot.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Aug 23, 2007 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Lost in all the hullabaloo...

Kevbo, BABY!!! 49.

And when Dempsey has become the voice of reason, we should probably be a little concerned. -Heather @ OM

by dayzd toe on Aug 23, 2007 9:30 AM EDT reply actions

RE:

Just needs 35 more for the ML record!!!

I didn't know this before, but Millar actually holds the official minor league record at 71 (tied with Youkillis).

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Aug 23, 2007 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Honestly

30-3 is a good conversation piece, but it doesn't mean anything. Very little that happens on one single night means much in baseball. And there is no difference in my mind between a 14-3 blowout and a 30-3 blowout, being that in baseball the standard move is to give up (in terms of who you put on the mound) after a certain run deficit is in place. We know Shubacca sucks. We know that Rob Bell has little business being with a big league club. We also know that Cabrera and Burres are prone to serious inconsistency in their performances. Sure, last night was a perfect storm of how bad all these motherfuckers could possibly be on the same night. A confluence of shitty pitching the likes of which has not been seen in over a Century. But it barely matters.

The second game was more of a letdown for me. Although given Hoey's inexperience and how fired up Texas must've been after scoring so much, it's hardly surprising. But no biggee. Hang in there O's fans. This too shall pass.

by Jonnypops on Aug 23, 2007 10:15 AM EDT reply actions

We had two shitty games

and one of them was pretty fucking awful. It was demoralizing. So what? We learn from our mistakes and move on, hopefully. The best thing about baseball is that no matter how bad the loss, tomorrow is always another day. And day closer to Bedard starting...

"If your're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Aug 23, 2007 10:16 AM EDT reply actions

What is to prevent . . .

Trembley from forfeiting the first game in the eightn inning when it was apparent the game was out of reach?

Since the O's had to play another game that evening, why waste time/pitchers/potential injuries/morale/etc. finishing a game that was taking forever and they weren't going to win anyway?

While we're at it, is it me or does it seem like the Orioles always get swept when the play double-headers?

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 10:52 AM EDT reply actions

because forfeiting is for pussies?

We all love Kevin Millar. Let's all stop acting like everyone here doesn't know that Millar is the shit. He is. He is the shit. Millar is our boy. -SC

by Stacey on Aug 23, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

RE:

First off, I'm pretty sure the commissioner's office wouldn't look to favorably at a team forfeiting games. Second, that's bush league. You finish the games like a man. If you lose, then fine, but you don't run and hide.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Aug 23, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, I see

Because the O's didn't look like pussies at all sticking it out and losing 30-3.

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions

no

Incompetent? Yes
Overmatched? Yes
Embarrassed? Yes
Pussies? No

You don't just quit in the middle of the game. If they had it would have been total bullshit.

We all love Kevin Millar. Let's all stop acting like everyone here doesn't know that Millar is the shit. He is. He is the shit. Millar is our boy. -SC

by Stacey on Aug 23, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

I WOULD have like to have seen

a few hit batsmen. Get them off the damn plate and thinking twice about extending their arms.

"You can tell the City of Baltimore that the old evil owner stepped up and took care of things tonight." - Orioles scouting director Joe Jordan, 08/16/07

by duck on Aug 23, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Also

forfeiting is not very professional.

"If your're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Aug 23, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Neither is

losing Major League baseball game by 27 runs.

It's not like the Rangers respect them for finishing the game.

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't get paid

if I forfeit working halfway through the day, and neither should those guys.

We all love Kevin Millar. Let's all stop acting like everyone here doesn't know that Millar is the shit. He is. He is the shit. Millar is our boy. -SC

by Stacey on Aug 23, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

this is going to sound strange but

"neither losing Major League baseball game by 27 runs."

it's completely professional. Professionalism isn't about winning or losing. It's about respecting the integrity of the game. Quiting disrespects the integrity of the game. If the O's would have quit, they're whatever word is more embarassing than being called a pussy.

by birdman on Aug 23, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Respect the game!

That's what Dave T says, and I'm with him.

We all love Kevin Millar. Let's all stop acting like everyone here doesn't know that Millar is the shit. He is. He is the shit. Millar is our boy. -SC

by Stacey on Aug 23, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not saying in the the middle

I mean in the eighth inning when it's close to 9:00 P.M., they're already down by 20 runs, and have another game to play that evening. What's the point beyond macho posturing? If I were Trembley I'd be saying "screw this, I have another game to play tonight."

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 11:58 AM EDT reply actions

SOMEBODY has to pitch...

Honestly, I don't think there's a mechanism in the rule book that allows for a forfeiture by a team.

And as Jose Canseco proved, running a position player out there isn't a wise move - he blew out his soulder/arm/elbow (?) doing that one year.

"You can tell the City of Baltimore that the old evil owner stepped up and took care of things tonight." - Orioles scouting director Joe Jordan, 08/16/07

by duck on Aug 23, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I thnk a team can just not take the field

Look at rule 4.15

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/start_end_4.jsp

To be frank, I'm not sure why you guys are prolonging this thread of discussion. If someone doesn't understand why you don't forfeit, it's just not worth talking to them.

by drj on Aug 23, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe there should be a mercy rule.

oriolesupdate.blogspot.com

by BrianS on Aug 23, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions

YES! A MERCY RULE!

something like "All knowledge that the Orioles are playing a game on any given day shall be erased from the minds of every person in existence. The only exceptions to this rule will be on days Erik Bedard or Jeremy Guthrie are scheduled to start; on these days all knowledge will be erased only after one of the above mentioned is removed from the game. Their performance, however, will be allowed to remain in the memories of the Oriole faithful"

I like it. I heard Buster Olney say in tonights pregame meeting Trembley was talking about pride in the baseball you play. Really, really like thsi guy - too bad the O's will probably screw him out of a job sometime next year

"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." -Bob Lemon

by jloving on Aug 24, 2007 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions

It's more of a hypothetical

given the circumstances of the game being part one of a double-header. Why waste time and effort for a game you have no shot of winning and possibly damage your chances of competing in the second game?

My Dad was friendly with Vito Stellino, who some of you may remember was the pro football writer for the Baltimore Sun a while back. Vito covered the Steelers in the 1970's and he was great because he took the piss out of all the rah, rah win one for the Gipper bullshit that most football teams present as a public facade. He told my Dad that every NFL coach who has been around awhile has done one of the following things that might be viewed as giving up:

Deliberately allowed a score late in a game that gave the other team to take the lead so that his team would have time to possibly win the game rather than wasting the clock trying to prevent a score in a high-probability situation.
Accepted losing a game in order to rest starters for the playoffs.
Deliberately lost a pre-season game because he either wanted to look at players he was on the fence about, work out plays they didn't have down as well as he'd like, or bring an overconfident team back to earth by manufacturing a loss.
Tanked the final game of the season in order to get a better draft pick.

Now these things would all be abhorrent to Little League and high school coaches across the nation, but were accepted by guys who won Superbowls. Losses are a bigger deal in the NFL than they are in baseball, but there are circumstances when a loss or risk of a loss is acceptable in the grand scheme of things.

With so many more games and with the consequence of an individual loss so much smaller, I have to imagine that there are even more circumstances like that in baseball.

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Trembley

did the same thing by leaving Shuey and Bell in. He wasnt going to waste the bullpen by trotting Bradford or Walker out there to prevent an MLB record from being set, just as a football coach doesnt play his stars in a meaningless contest.

by nittany lion on Aug 23, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

why

"Why waste time and effort for a game you have no shot of winning and possibly damage your chances of competing in the second game?"

Because it respects the integrity of the game although I have a feeling you have a different definition of what it means to respect the integrity of the game.

by birdman on Aug 23, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

You better believe it

All that "respect the game" stuff sniffs of bullshit to me and I suspect that a lot of players probably don't believe in their heart of hearts either. The more you learn about Joe DiMaggio, for example, the more you learn that he was in it for the money and his own glory and the Yankees and baseball in general came in a distant third and fourth.

In the last Bill James historical abstract he wrote about how Branch Rickey got bent out of shape when he found out Leo Durocher was letting one of his pitchers drink before his games to calm his nerves. Durocher said something to the effect of "my job is to put more in the W column than the L column and however I do it is my business." I pretty much agree with that.

The job is to win. If you do it like the Oakland Raiders or Oakland A's in the 70's by getting drunk and high, fighting, chasing women, and missing a lot of team flights (Oakland must've been a fun place in the 1970's), that's fine by me. By the same token, if you're like the 1960's Green Bay Packers and win by being well-disciplined corporate professionals, that's great too. For that matter, if you're like most Yankee World Series teams and win while getting drunk and high, fighting, chasing women, and missing team flights while maintaining the outside appearance of well-disciplined corporate professionals, then you're living the dream.

In my short and sheltered life, I've found that doing something out of principle when pragmatism or reason tells me to do something else, usually doesn't work out so well, but that's just me. That's why something horrible as throwing in the towel doesn't bother me if you have good reason other than "I don't want to" or "it's too hard".

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

i suspected as much

as dylan once said, "You go your way and I'll go mine." Although I'll say I've never been a believer in that pragmatism stuff because people, myself included, do unpragmatic thing regularly.

by birdman on Aug 23, 2007 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Me too

and it kicks me in the crotch on a regular basis. You'd think I'd learn my lesson.

by yurizanow on Aug 23, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe if they win

5 or 6 of the next 7 the will forget about it. they are going to sweep TAB no matter what and MIN is struggling so there is some hope. I would have been nice to hang on and win the second game, which would have erased the first one, but that did not happpen.

Jeremy Guthrie ROCKS! Go to hell Paul Shuey!

by westcoastOfan on Aug 23, 2007 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

Here's reflection for you

ALL 30 RUNS given up yesterday were EARNED!

A little comparison-
Bedard has not allowed 30 runs in his last 16 starts combined. And you have to go back to May 20, that's 18 starts, to tally up Bedards last 30 Earned Runs.

WOW... just wow.

And when Dempsey has become the voice of reason, we should probably be a little concerned. -Heather @ OM

by dayzd toe on Aug 23, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply actions

and here's

some detailed analysis of that info:

BEDARD > orioles

wow. who woulda thunk it?!

seriously, I take solace in for however many games we lose to shit teams, we shave Bedard...and they don't. eat shit, american league.

"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." -Bob Lemon

by jloving on Aug 24, 2007 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions

err...

we don't shave him (or maybe we do and I'm just not privy to that), but we do in fact HAVE him

"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." -Bob Lemon

by jloving on Aug 24, 2007 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Comment & a question

May be when it got to 20 or so they figured, why settle for mediocrity when immortality is right around the corner. But hey, at least the field goals canceled each other out.

Didn't Earl forfeit one about 30 years ago? Something over a rain delay that shouldn't have been called? Or may be the umps didn't call for a delay when the should have? And didn't that lead to a change in the rules about what's considered an official game & what isn't?

"You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever." - Ron White

by Sluggo @ Camden Chat on Aug 23, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions

I think that was against the Blue Jays

He pulled the team off the field due to hazardous conditions. The Blue Jays had a BP tarp held down by bricks. Weaver cited a hazard and the forfeit was called when the team failed to take the field in the alloted time (5 minutes?).

That's different from getting pummeled.

by drj on Aug 23, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions