Bedard's agent denies extension talk

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 12:14 PM EST in News Comment 89 comments

Source: ESPN (Javylicious got it first in the thread for the post below)

Sources told MLB.com on Wednesday night that Orioles owner Peter Angelos has decided to make a last-ditch effort to sign Bedard to an extension as trade talks with the Mariners continue. The sources said that Angelos called Bedard on Sunday and talked about the possibility of a five-year deal. The pitcher said he would discuss it with his agent.

MLB.com could not reach Bedard or his agent, Mark Pieper, for comment Wednesday. But on Thursday, Pieper released a statement vehemently denying that Bedard will enter into contract discussions with Baltimore.

"The report that appeared yesterday regarding Erik Bedard on MLB.com is wholely inaccurate and contains nothing factual," Pieper said. "Quite honestly, that type of journalism is irresponsible and reckless."

OK, let's get real here. How many goddamned "irresponsible and reckless" stories can one fuckin' trade rumor have? At some point, someone has to have said something true. Every goddamned step of this process has been denied by everyone involved. Adam Jones talks to the Venezuelan press, it's denied. Bavasi and a Mariners PR rep talk, it's denied. MacPhail is about to start denying he said things that he said yesterday. Extension talks? DENIED.

It's the media! The media has everything wrong! It's not the same old drag ass Orioles bullshit with some disinformation to spice up the dish. This is also vintage Andy MacPhail, for those that don't know any better. Ask around.

Buster Olney has this:

The Orioles have asked the Mariners for written language that Seattle will submit Jones and Sherrill for a physical examination by the Orioles -- and if they pass physicals, then and only then will Baltimore be obligated to finish the trade. The inherent risk for the Mariners is that if either Jones or Sherrill were to flunk their physicals in Baltimore, then the respective value of the players would be diminished within the industry.

Jones, 22, is regarded by scouts and executives with other teams as a rising star. "He's going to be a monster," said an AL talent evaluator. "If you put he and Nick Markakis in the same outfield, that is the start of something."

...

SERENITY NOW!

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Huh? Am I wrong here?

Isn't it always the case that when a player physical is required that the trade is dependent on the player actually passing it??? Isn't that the whole point? And if they are damaged goods; wouldn't the next team that tried to trade for them also figure that out?

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 31, 2008 12:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Olney's account explains a lot.

It makes sense. The rest of the rumors, including the contract extension, have an air of, "teams trying to stall for time while they work out legal stuff, simultaneously trying to save face and yet not damage reputations of either side".

Gone, but still haunting us all.

by zknower on Jan 31, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re: the Onley info

I'm not quite sure what this means. You hear all the time the trades are complete "pending physicals," which sounds like if the player fails the physical the trade won't go through. How is this situation different from every other trade pending physicals ever? The story you linked says, "When Jones was quoted as saying the deal was completed, this created a rules question, sources say: If the Jones went for his physical examination, would the Orioles then be beholden to accept him, even if the physical exam did not go well."

Why does what Jones say affect anything? He's not the one making the decisions. He probably just misunderstood what Bavasi told him.

Serenity now, indeed.

Well, this winter brilliantly encapsulates the problem at the top that's made the O's sort of a joke franchise for roughly a decade now. ~Rob Neyer

by Stacey on Jan 31, 2008 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ahh...

Maybe Jones' comment is the key here. Maybe these physicals happen secretly all the time so when players fail it doesn't become public knowledge. When Jones opened his mouth, it was no longer secret.

But the problem with this whole thing is that wouldn't another team require a physical before trading for Jones? So a team finds out the bad news from the O's this week or they find out when they do their own physical on Jones when they have a deal in the works with the M's next year.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

by silverstadium on Jan 31, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

There have been instances of players getting traded and then the other team finds out they're damaged goods. Mike Sirotka, for one:

Drafted by the Chicago White Sox in the 15th round of the 1993 MLB amateur draft, Sirotka played all five years of his Major League Baseball career for that team. After the 2000 season, he was traded to the Toronto Blue Jays with Kevin Beirne and Brian Simmons for Matt DeWitt and David Wells in a deal that would infamously become labeled by White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams as "Shouldergate." Sirotka would never pitch an inning for Toronto because of a torn labrum in his left shoulder perpetuated during Game 2 of the 2000 American League Division Series against the Seattle Mariners. Although Williams was aware of the injury, he failed to inform Toronto GM Gord Ash. Ash later appealed the trade to MLB Commissioner Bud Selig, but Selig refused to overturn the trade, essentially telling the Blue Jays they should have known what they were getting into.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think so

I mean, I just heard on the radio the other day, "Johan Santana is traded to the Mets pending his physical." That's not a secret. If he failed his physical, the trade wouldn't go through, right? And everyone would know, right?

Maybe I'm just dense.

Well, this winter brilliantly encapsulates the problem at the top that's made the O's sort of a joke franchise for roughly a decade now. ~Rob Neyer

by Stacey on Jan 31, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Physical

So maybe this is where the hip thing is coming from. But I'm with Philly...I thought these physicals were standard with trades. Or is it just free agent signings? And doesn't Angelos have a history of being a stickler with these physicals?

by silverstadium on Jan 31, 2008 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes he is

That's why Aaron Sele never signed here - failed his physical for us, but passed it for Seattle, I believe?

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat. Do you?

by duck on Jan 31, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yep

It's not even so much that Sele failed his physical, it's more that he failed on the Orioles/Angelos scale. It revealed enough wrong with him to deter the team.

That one wasn't a big deal, but Sele had quite an interesting career. He was one of the luckiest pitchers of the modern era. He was exactly average in his career numbers, yet he won 57% of his decisions. He also got to be part of the ridiculous 2001 Mariners, a team where Paul Abbott could be Paul Abbott and go 17-4.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

precious...

in that cubs thread, one guy was like, "i don't want roberts anyways, i'd rather have mark!"

be it theriot or derosa of which they speak, that's straight up ig'nunt. you don't want one of the best 2nd basemen in mlb? um, okay.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 31, 2008 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Theriot is a Ryan

And yes I don't understand preferring Mark DeRosa to Brian Roberts.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ah, yes...

ryan theriot.

there really is no comparison, though.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 31, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs fans are idiots

that was fun to say.

but seriously, anyone who says they'd rather have Mark DeRosa to Brian Roberts knows nothing about baseball.

oh, and this. i have complete serenity. this Bedard/Jones trade will go through. i said it last week. i said it again earlier this week. it will go through, my friends. it's just a matter of time.

patience, grasshoppers.

FUCK MASCOT MILLAR and HORSESHIT HUFF

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Jan 31, 2008 1:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

It's not whether or not it will go through. It's the long, arduous process that is the Orioles attempting to make a trade. This whole thing has been a fiasco.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

with both points, cubs fans being idiots is a given. but with the whole trade..if you just take a step back from all of the bullshit rumors that the media sends out everyday.. last week andy said he wanted to get something done before pitchers/catchers report. obviously there is substance to this trade and jones just messed up and opened his mouth prematurely. in reality its only been 4 days since news of the trade broke. .there is still plenty of time to get this done...also were so quick to jump the gun and blame angelos, and rightfully so but maybe we arent giving andy enough credit here..if he does get this bedard trade done and then gets roberts over to chi, then this would be the most productive off season the o's have had in a long long time

Some people ask me what I do during winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Roger Hornsby

by dulak8 on Jan 31, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and it bears repeating...

he got three dudes (at least two of which appear to be moderately serviceable) for steve "moderately serviceable" trachsel.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 31, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm now thinking...

This trade gets announced by tomorrow afternoon. We'll see.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thinking about it more

Here's what I think happened. I think the people who have been most truthful during this whole process have been Jones and MacPhail.

Basically, this deal was going to go down by Tuesday at the latest, until Jones screwed up and talked to a reporter about going to Baltimore. He was supposed to get his physical before any deal was announced. By talking to a reporter, he screwed everything up because the Mariners have a vested interest in keeping Jones's health private as long as he is their property. Even if he has no known injury, you don't want something coming out about a blue chip prospect like that before you unload him on somebody else.

So, when Jones made his comments to the press, the Mariners tried to pressure Baltimore into making the trade before the physical. This is probably where all the "multiple sources" came from saying it was a done deal. Baltimore refused, and for the last four days the teams have been haggling over physicals.

Everything else was probably bad journalism. Reporters and columnists, not knowing why no deal was taking place, went with the theory that Angelos must have blocked it, because he's blocked trades in the past. Then when that didn't seem to be true, they went with the theory that the Orioles were still trying to extend Bedard, because MacPhail had indicated a couple months ago that he would pursue that. I am sure these reporters had no difficulty finding "sources" to back up these speculations, even though they were only speculations.

But the comments by Bedard's agent seem pretty categorical. There are no contract negotiations going on. The Orioles are trying to trade Bedard. The talk yesterday of multiple teams was probably an effort to force Seattle to give in to their demands on the physicals.

So, at this point, the trade will go down as long as Seattle allows pre-trade physicals for Jones and Sherrill, and those physicals come up normal. If they don't, then perhaps they do have something to hide about Jones's health. The rumors about a degenerative hip may date back to rumors from when this guy was being drafted, for all we know. Or it may just be something somebody heard from somewhere and repeated to somebody. Or maybe there really is an issue.

That's the best sense I can make of all the evidence from this week.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 2:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

This isn't the first time this has happened with a Baltimore Orioles trade or supposed trade. The only benefit of the doubt I can really give MacPhail and the Orioles in this case is that MacPhail's first trade with Tejada was pretty quick.

The Orioles have a strong history of needing to take a leak, standing outside of a public john because they're not absolutely positively certain that there is not a bomb-strapped terrorist inside, and then winding up doing nothing but going, "Ooooh! Ooooh!" and pissing their pants.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Just getting this trade accomplished may be a feather in MacPhail's cap. Read other GM quotes about Big Pete, and he's that guy waiting outside the restroom peeing his pants while he attempts to make sure everything inside is perfectly safe.

On the flip side, it sure looks like MacPhail has a tendency to fall into analysis paralysis. Are we doomed to watching all future trade talks, contract extension, arbitration cases, etc. drag on and on like this. In public, for the (baseball) world to laugh at?

And for the third side... Maybe this is what it will take. Maybe MacPhail's plodding style is the only thing that will work with Angelos. I read that MacPhail has had more success getting players traded (likely and making other moves like firings, reorg the minors, etc.) because he keeps his boss in the loop. Hopefully only making him feel like he's part of the decision. Perhaps our only hope is that MacPhail continues to be the infinite well of patience one must be to deal with Angelos. We can only wonder how long it will last. This is about as positive a though I could come up with after witnessing this fiasco.

"This is Birdland"

by drj on Jan 31, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Macsnail

MacPhail can take as long as he pleases if it means a return to prominence.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 31, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The hip

This would reinforce my feeling all along that the hip thing with Jones is just a hypothetical worst case scenario supporting why we need a physical first. The hip was mentioned because Baltimore fans are familiar with it happening to Belle.

by silverstadium on Jan 31, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have

a degenrative finger condition. I've been putting sub-flooring in my attack so my wife can tell me to put more shit up there and it's not exactly high noon up there. Anyway, I keep hitting my damn finger with the hammer. At this rate I'll be down to 9 digits before it's done.

"When you are in with the Lord there's just one reward, and they'd just as soon make it come true." -REK

by BPinOK on Jan 31, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice talk about Cubs fans.

Let's see, you guys are fans of a team that the owner has systematically destroyed over the last ten years, and who now has a GM who makes trades at the speed of glaciers taking over Europe. But we're the idiots. Mm-hmm.

Brian Roberts is a good player. No question about it. But he did not have a good second half in 2007 (he hit .247/.341/.415 after the All-Star break) and to my mind, he is a marginal upgrade over Mark DeRosa, certainly not worth the prospects MacPhail was asking for.

I'm just so sick of hearing about this. If there's a deal to be made, it should have been made two months ago.

by Al on Jan 31, 2008 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Well, how many Oriole fans do you see defending Angelos? So how is that relevant?

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 31, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

teams don't reflect fans

And let's not act like no Cubs fan has ever taken a verbal swipe at the fanbases of others, huh?

I don't think anyone really meant anything malicious. You do a great job at BCB, Al, and I'm a regular reader, which I think you know (and if you didn't -- I'm a regular reader!)

Maybe it's an AL East thing. Red Sox and Yankees fans are idiots. Blue Jays fans are Canadian. We root for the Orioles. The Rays have fans? etc.

I view the Cubs, personally, as an ally. We've made a fair amount of trades the last few years. Thanks for Sammy Sosa! Hope you enjoyed Jerry Hairston.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

also....

thanks for giving us people for Trachsel.

Batting fourth....playing center field....

by zknower on Jan 31, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True enough.

Everyone takes swipes from time to time. I'm a regular reader here too, as I'm sure you know.

Me, personally, I really don't want Brian Roberts. But about half of BCB readers do (see my current poll).

Oh, and thanks for Kevin Hart. Hope you're enjoying "Boom-Boom".

Al, visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Al on Jan 31, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, I'm not the biggest Bynum fan

I could go on. I won't. He does have an infectious smile, I'll give him that. I wish he'd infect gloomy gus Mora with it.

Where I think Roberts would be a HUGE upgrade for the Cubs is basically replacing Theriot and moving DeRosa to short. Theriot is like Brian Roberts Lite -- very, very lite. But that's not really the plan, is it?

If you do get Roberts, trust me, you'll quickly grow to love him. He plays his ass off. You're going to hate him batting right-handed and wonder why he doesn't just stop, however.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But that wouldn't happen.

DeRosa can't play SS on an everyday basis. I suppose it can be argued that Theriot shouldn't be there, either. But with Fukudome and Soto occupying spots in the lineup that were filled with, well, people who shouldn't have been there in the first place, the offense is going to be better anyway.

About Roberts leading off -- we have discussed this to death at BCB -- even if the Cubs get him, he won't. Alfonso Soriano will lead off. Is that the right thing to do? Maybe not. But he hits better when he leads off, and pretty much sucks when he doesn't.

Incidentally, who is the Oriole in your signature?

Al, visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Al on Jan 31, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's crazy.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Jan 31, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bruce Chen

My thinking is DeRosa could handle things at short as an offensive plus for the position and then be replaced in the late innings by a glove. Theriot is no great shakes as a shortstop anyway, is he? You should've taken Tejada AND Roberts! I'm not sure what exactly the Astros plan on doing with him anyway.

I figured Soriano would stay leading off and Roberts would hit second if a trade went through, since Soriano's just one of those guys you have to cater to to get the most out of. I still think it makes the Cubs a better team, but does it win the division for them? Nah -- they probably win it anyway.

Mostly I want the trade to happen because as much as I love Brian Roberts, I'm all for as close to a complete demolition of this team as we can get. Tejada, Bedard and Roberts were the pieces that we've talked about moving. Tejada's gone, Bedard's all but gone, and let's just move Brian, too. The Cubs are the only team that have come up in serious talks as far as I know.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You said....

I still think it makes the Cubs a better team, but does it win the division for them? Nah -- they probably win it anyway.

Exactly. So what's the point of making this deal? All it does, from a Cub standpoint, is take away some starting pitching depth, something any team can ill afford.

(Personally, I'd think you'd rather forget Bruce Chen.)

Al, visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Al on Feb 1, 2008 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

playoffs?

that elusive world series title?

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There's a huge difference

between an 83 pyth win team and a 90 pyth team. Now, given that the playoffs are a crapshoot, which would you rather have?

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Feb 1, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Shoot

Al, I just remembered - I'm supposed to buy one of the BCB shirts because of that stupid bet, aren't I? Anyway, I haven't forgotten, I'm just a student with a microscopic bank account balance...I'll rectify the situation soon. :)

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Feb 1, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Email me.

We'll work it out.

Al, visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Al on Feb 2, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chen had one good season

That sort of sticks in my mind these days. I forget all about the one after that was brutal.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 1, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing wrong with Canadians

and the Rays are going to be pretty fun to watch this year.

Although I will be glued to all 162 O's games like I am every year....

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Jan 31, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Canadians are arrogant

And I bet the Rays win 75 games. I'd put money on Carlos Pena's production not being 60% of what it was last year.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Jan 31, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh please.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Jan 31, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to which?

Canadians are arrogant. Ohhh. We have outstanding health care. Fuck you!

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 1, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They do.

And how is that arrogant, exactly? I imagine plenty of folks from your neck of the woods travel up there all the time for meds and even treatment given the sorry state of healthcare in the States.

Arrogant and Canadian are not two things I generally associate. Sure, they have their Anti-American thing going on, but that's the entire world. And to be honest if any country knows a thing or two about the United States, it's Canada.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

right down to our dandruff

(courtesy busted tees)

Batting fourth....playing center field....

by zknower on Feb 1, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I wouldn't say Canada has everything figured out with the health system. They have chronic problems with delivering care. Major complaints about waiting periods are common. Then the country clamped down on attempts to provide privately funded care. Canadians cross the border to the south to get care as well. The migration isn't only one way. The overall effect has been a documented brain drain where Canadian doctors are migrating to the U.S. Doesn't seem to me anyone has it figured out.

"This is Birdland"

by drj on Feb 1, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I think we should invade Canada, or let the Nazi Terrorists do it so that we can find out just how tough they are without America's protection that guards them from intruders. Shape up or ship out, Canada! We'll sell your land to the commies!

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 1, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be arrogant

if my health care system work and I bordered a country that acted like it was perfect and the bulk of its citizens had no respect for the rest of the world.

"If you're not practicing, somebody else is, somewhere, and he'll be ready to take your job." -Brooks Robinson

by exitfare on Feb 1, 2008 8:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HA!

"a country that acted like it was perfect and the bulk of its citizens had no respect for the rest of the world"

-you're describing much of the world.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Feb 1, 2008 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah?

i'm not so sure he is. while this certainly happens elsewhere, Americans in my experience are remarkably ignorant of the world they live in. perhaps it's because our natural resources are so abundant and our economy shelters us from really needing to know about other places. who knows?

i remember my first year of college, i took a required world history class for freshman. the teacher had a map at the front of the class, and each day she would ask for a volunteer to come up to the map and point out a country she'd pick. nobody knew where anything was. for the first week, in a class of 30+ people i (and this is not blowing my own horn, since it's nothing to be proud of) was the only person who knew where any of the countries were. easy countries, like Australia, the UK, Germany. it came to the point where she wouldn't call on me anymore. and then nobody could figure it out, and a few weeks later she just stopped doing it to stop embarassing people. and it wasn't just that people were thinking fuck off and didn't want to participate. she would call people to the front of the class and they would not fucking know...would stand there, befuddled.

it was a sad display.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Johnnypops,

you my boy!

"All I have to say is our partner is going to shock the world because he is none other than THE SHOCKMASTER!"-Sting

by jobe on Feb 3, 2008 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I only have respect for folks who earn it.

Who in the world has earned it? The Brits. Anyone else? The Israeli's. I'd add the Turks. There are others. but I'm not going to take the time to list them.

The rest - well, just pretend I'm from Missouri.

by timg56 on Feb 1, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeesh...

as a cubs fan, i'd think you'd be sympathetic to fans that stick w/ their team through dogshit years and dogshit owners.

i'll echo what scott said, if you get roberts you will definitely grow to love him. beyond the fact that he's a bit younger than derosa, i'd say he's quite a bit more than a marginal upgrade over derosa. beyond that fact that he's a legit leadoff hitter, even w/ a mediocre 2nd half, he bested derosa by 10 points in adjusted ops and about 4 points in warp3.

his counting stats would probably go up significantly having to play so many games against the pirates and at great american as opposed to squaring off against the yanks and bosox.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 31, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One thing

I really enjoy is watching how many pitches BRob see every at bat. How many times have you seen him start the game off with a 10 pitch at-bat that most of the time ends up with him on base. I don't really know how much stock you can put into how many pitches a guy sees but those are some fun at bats to watch...especially when you had to prepare yourself for Tejada who never met a pitch he didn't like.

"When you are in with the Lord there's just one reward, and they'd just as soon make it come true." -REK

by BPinOK on Jan 31, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Love Robert's patience

more than any other of his playing qualities. It was always nice to know that while Tejada wouldn't do much to work the pitcher and the count, there was always B-Rob, who rarely let the Crow's advice affect his performance. Roberts could look truly Joe Morgan-esque at the plate.

"All I have to say is our partner is going to shock the world because he is none other than THE SHOCKMASTER!"-Sting

by jobe on Jan 31, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon

This is a bad argument. Brian Roberts is "marginally" better than Mark DeRosa because he had a bad second-half last year while he was playing hurt and frustrated being on a losing team that was going nowhere? DeRosa is a decent player, a useful guy to have on any team because he can play multiple positions, but Roberts is a legit leadoff hitter who can post a high OBP and swipe 50 bags with his eyes closed.

Put him in the weaker NL and on a team that is in the hunt and watch him excel.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Idiocy of Cubs' fans

I have a long-time friend who is a huge Cubs fan and acknowledges that Cubs fans are idiots. But that's okay. Baltimore fans are idiots too. We develop irrational attachments to mediocrities like B.J. Surhoff and Jeff Conine, after all.

Pretty much all baseball fans, when viewed as a group, come off as morons.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You dare to suggest

that St. Surhoff was mediocre????

"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Feb 1, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fwiw...

m's have just inked brad wilkerson which had previously been pretty much seen as a companion to any adam jones deal.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Jan 31, 2008 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Heart of the lineup in '09?

While we're on hold, I've let myself do some daydreaming. Roch brought up Mark Teixeira possibly commanding $20m a year when he hits free agency after this season. I know we need to get younger and cheaper, but why not throw some money at an impact free agent or two who still has plenty of good years left, esp with Huff, Payton, and Millar off the books, or soon to be, by then? Tex would turn 29 a week into the 09 season and would have maybe 5 more years of being a legit cleanup hitter.

If this f-ing Bedard deal goes through, the 3-4-5-6 in our lineup would be Markakis, Tex, Jones, Wieters. I would certainly pay to see that lineup every night.

by Cockeysville Crony on Jan 31, 2008 8:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

And Mora will be coming off then as well.

I would probably hold off on signing big money FA until we are actually ready to compete (or at least closer to being ready). Lets see what we really need and then go shopping. There are concerns that Weiters is too tall for the stresses of catching, and isn't there concerns about Rowell's glove at third? It may come neccesary to move one/both of these guys or someone else around; and if so it'd be nice to have the luxury of not having a huge contract locked into a particular position, especially first.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 31, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me dream

I know it's pointless to put together '09 scenarios now, but I am indulging my overly optimistic imagination for now. Two homegrown guys, one from a trade, and one from free agency in the meat of your lineup is a good, balanced formula for success.

On another note, I live/work in Chicago and have too many Cub fan friends. They all think they'd be giving up too much for B-Rob and think DeRosa is so damn good. I know gauging fanbase characteristics is an entirely unscientific process, but one thing I'm pretty sure about is that O's fans can never be called homers, esp compared to fans of other teams.

When baseball writers do those "I'm bored so let's create a list" articles about the best ballpark experiences in the game, they always talk about how knowledgeable O's fans are, or at least whoever's left of them.

by Cockeysville Crony on Jan 31, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Tex...

I think Baltimore should definitely go after him hard after the 2008 season. A hitter of his caliber who actually wants to play for Baltimore (supposedly) and has local ties does not come along that often. You've got to jump on that when you get the chance. Plus, as noted above, it's not like he's going to be over-the-hill. Sign him to a six-year, $120 million contract. If the rebuilding isn't done by the time we're three years into that deal, it just means the rebuilding was a bust anyways.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus...

We don't really have any first basemen in the pipeline anyway.

by crawjo on Jan 31, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well

Certainly no potential firstbasemen of Tex's caliber. They say Rowell might end up there, same with Weiters if his frame cant take catching. If we could get some young guys to develop alongside him then that could be a winning combination.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 31, 2008 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it

Why would you want to pay him $20M a year when the team is still rebuilding, though? Who's to say there won't be someone better available once the rebuilding is done? And why would he want to play for a team that's just a year or so into the rebuilding process to begin with? Sign a player like him, you have to start signing other free agents in some effort to field a competitive team.

Mark Texeira's a really good baseball player, but he's not Babe Ruth. I don't quite get the obsession. (And I can give a shit that he's from Baltimore. It only matters if you're a local if you play your entire Hall of Fame career for your hometown team.)

by Stanicek on Feb 1, 2008 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2010?

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought, McPhail had said that 2010 was about the time they expected to contend? Assuming everything went right.

"When you are in with the Lord there's just one reward, and they'd just as soon make it come true." -REK

by BPinOK on Feb 1, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE: Assuming the trades go through

Hopefully, 2010 is about the time we start fielding a real ML team. I don't see why we would want to add big money FA before we are ready and have a solid core though. I would guess that most of 2008 and 2009 we are going to be finding out who these guys really are; who can actually play at the ML level; and who can play where. We don't have the money to build a core team around high priced free ageants, we need to build a core around our young players, and then use free agency to fill in holes. It doesn't make sense to me to start filling in holes until we actually know what the holes are, which I don't think we'll know by the end of 2008.

The free ageants we should be signing right now or even next year are the Steve Traschel type guys that we aren't really expecting to build a team around. 2 year, low risk deals.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 1, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see one year

making that big of a difference. I mean in a perfect world where people are joyful to play for the Baltimore Orioles, what you say makes sense. But bear in mind that in reality most FAs would not choose to play here if their lives depended on it. IF Tex is willing to sign here because it's his hometown, then that's a deal we need to make, in my opinion, even if it's a year early.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

If the rebuilding goes well, I think a year is going to make a huge difference. I hope that by the end of 2009 we have a far better idea of who we are and who we aren't than by the end of 2008.

If the money is right and we show the baseball world that we really do have a core of solid players, I really think players will sign.

I would love to have Tex; but I'm not sure we aren't going to have solid corner infielders from the organization. And I really don't want the Orioles to commit until we know. Adding random high quality pieces that we all personally like makes less sense to me than taking a look at our team's needs and trying to address those needs.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 1, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

An issue

is whether Wieters can, or will be allowed, to stick at C. I suppose Snyder could be at 1B as well, but I hardly know if that's reason to hold off on acquiring a player like Tex. But honestly, a little logjam with HIGH quality players like this is not such a bad thing. There are other parts that we'll need to trade for at some point and this sets us up to do that (as long as we don't do anything stupid like give Tex a NTC) and there will be no lack of suitors for either Teixeira or a prospect formidable enough to want to have instead of Tex. Having organizational depth is the kind of problem you want to have to open up other options. We're just not used to it because it hasn't happened in a long time around Bmore.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

No, having a log jam isn't bad IF you have all your other bases covered. Signing Tex means there is some other player that you may need that you won't be able to sign.

I'd rather have 2 high quality players at two different positions getting 650 AB's/year than have two high quality players at the same position fighting for AB's; or some player break out in the farm system and be stuck behind a high priced free agent.

Maybe we'll have a bunch of guys advance far quicker than anyone expects and we'll know where we stand after this season, I just think that's a long shot.

Besides, I can never remember how to spell Tex's name.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 1, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Again

this makes sense in a world where we're able to land free agents without grossly overpaying them. That world does not exist. Now obviously I'm operating under an assumption that Tex would give Baltimore a fair shake of a deal if he signed here...which could be a complete and total fantasy. But I think given the moribund reputation of the ballclub amongst most players, trades are the route we need to focus on in the coming years to fill our needs. And if a player like Tex was willing to sign that could be very valuable to us both on the field or in the market.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

I'd be surprised if Tex doesn't demand at least a limited no trade contract. He knows that if the Orioles' rebuild isn't paying off three years into his contract, he'll be one of the first to go. You think he wants to risk getting traded to the Pirates?

Batting fourth....playing center field....

by zknower on Feb 1, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, sure.

We give him the right to void 10 small market teams that can't afford him anyhow. But we absolutely need options if we give him a big contract like that.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wieters is sticking at C

Snyder, by all accounts, will be a first baseman.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 1, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

honestly...

i've never heard of wieters being converted from c until later in his career. by all accounts, he is a plus defensive catcher at this point.

i think the knock on snyder as a 1b is his lack of power, but he's still pretty young and it's hard to know how much of that is due to rebuilding from his shoulder issues. at that same point, i think you could do a lot worse than a lyle overbay type.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Feb 1, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

The questions I've seen about Weiter's have been whether his body can handle the abuses of catching being that he is such a big guy. I've seen the concern several times and Keith Law brought it up again in his ratings:

The biggest long-term concern with Wieters is his size: He's 6-foot-5, which means there's a lot of pressure on his knees when he squats. The history of catchers his height is filled with players who moved off the position or who suffered leg and knee injuries, including the best all-around catcher in the majors today, Joe Mauer. If Wieters can buck history and stay behind the plate, he'll be rivaling Mauer for that title in just a few years.

That obviously doesn't mean it's going to happen and if it does it's going to be a problem right away; it's just a concern. I don't think I've seen anyone question is tools as a catcher.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3221365&action=u psell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist %3dlaw_keith%26id%3d3221365

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 1, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

right, so we're basically saying the same thing?

it could be a concern, probably not in the cards for several years.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Feb 1, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2010

"Maybe I'm wrong but I thought, McPhail had said that 2010 was about the time they expected to contend?"

2010 is based on the assumption that the team brings in a whole new crop of young talent. Not trading Bedard impends that goal. I haven't followed every word of this debate of trading or not trading Bedard, but if the team is fully committed to rebuilding, they need to trade Bedard. The team needs a massive influx of young talent. How else do you accomplish that goal fast w/o trading off players like Bedard? Obviously the team needs to draft better but keeping Roberts and Bedards only delays the rebuilding.

Rocky Cherry, O's pitcher, not the ice cream flavor.

by birdman on Feb 1, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You missed...

the rest of my quote...the one right below that said "assuming everything went right."

"When you are in with the Lord there's just one reward, and they'd just as soon make it come true." -REK

by BPinOK on Feb 1, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oops, i did it again.

Rocky Cherry, O's pitcher, not the ice cream flavor.

by birdman on Feb 1, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yeah

I'd go after that mofo. The timing's fine too. Sure for his first year or two the Baby Birds will still be maturing, but by year 2-3 of his contract this team could be kicking some serious ass. Teixeira will be 29 next year, a 4-5 year contract for 20 Million is certainly worth it. Plus we're gonna have the money with all these cheapass contracts on our books now.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 1, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

He's not Babe Ruth, but he will be a 29yo switch-hitting, LHP-mashing 1B whose career averages are

.286/.371/.539 37HR 120RBI

That is the true #4 hitter in his prime that this team has been lacking since Raffy1.0.
And he'll be hitting the market at just the right time for us to pick him up, increase the sex appeal of our developing young club, and package/market him as the prodigal son returning.

Think about Pie?, Jones, Markakis, Wieters, and Teixeira in the same lineup.
Now wipe the drool off your chin.
See?

Our fans are better than yours.

by OEutaw on Feb 1, 2008 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's good stuff

I'm sure someone could come up with a much larger list than that. Apparently being a good litigator doesn't translate to the business or baseball realms. Angelos and Jeffrey Loria really shouldn't be allowed to own teams but hey, it's their money, they can do what they want.
---------
http://www.vcao.net

by danielbank on Jan 31, 2008 9:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

tex and cubs

having tex on the team would provide great veteran leadership for a still really young team, plus he has stated in the past that he would love to play for baltimore! how do you not want a guy like that on our team. secondly i just wanted to state that i love watching carlos zambrano pitch..the guy has heart..i wish cabrera played with a tenth of the passion that guy does

Some people ask me what I do during winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do, I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Roger Hornsby

by dulak8 on Feb 1, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Roberts

It seems the Cubbies might not part with Felix Pie in any deal afterall...

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/02/01/orioles-rumors-brian-roberts-erik-bedard/

by ET90210 on Feb 1, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's true.

Did you expect them to?

Al, visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue

by Al on Feb 2, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't know

what to expect anymore. We're dreaming of a better tomorrow and sometimes our optimism knows no bounds. I imagine you must have had a similar outlook at times.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 3, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs