what would you want to trade him for, someone that could help us win in 2009? just think, its Joe Mauer with more power.

Now I am not necessarily advocating we do it. What I am doing is trying to stimulate some discussion on this board – which, let’s face it, has been kinda slow since the annual swoon. So let’s get real. Wieters could and should command some serious talent in a trade. Our pitching was once again, for the 789th season in a row, fucking abysmal. We’ve been acquiring pitchers galore in our trades and drafts, but do you really feel confident with Arrieta, Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz et al changing our fortunes on the mound? I don’t. What I could see is turning into a Texas Rangers sort of thing with some good offensive pieces and no fucking pitching whatsoever. Is holding onto a bright prospect worth all that? The problem though is finding one team, or team combo (even tougher) willing to give up the amount of pitching Wieters is worth.

i mean, if memlo stays, i expect him to regress to high 80, low 90 OPS+ guy and you have to think huff will regress at least to low 100s. that being said, it’s not unreasonable to imagine roberts, markakis and scott to more or less repeat their seasons.

the big x factors are how does adam jones develop and what happens at first.

With Navarro playing the way he has this year, they wouldn’t be in the market for a young catcher. Any system could use Price, but if we were going to flip Wieters it should be for strong middle infielders; minor league pitching should not be at the top of our wishlist. I think the Rays might even emerge the winners in that deal because they have 8-10 pitcher vying for five spots in their rotation and could make up for the loss of Price more easily than we could make up for losing Wieters. It wouldn’t make sense for either team, though.

Wieters may be the top hitting prospect in baseball right now. But he is still a prospect. Those are the types of deals you get for established major leaguers. Wieters would probably only be traded straight up for another prospect (for example, for David Price or Clayton Kershaw). The other team may throw in a grade C prospect. I highly doubt you’d get multiple prospects that are in a team’s Top 10.

If you want to trade Wieters you wait a year or two. He’ll get more than he would now, even if he doesn’t live up to his high expectations.

Ngata for Colston is more plausible than Wieters for anyone else. Given that Ozzie is extremely successful in drafting defensive players, and Rex gives exotic enough looks to plug in guys like Bannan and still have things run smoothly, losing Ngata would not hurt the Ravens as much as losing Wieters would hurt the O’s. The Orioles have a major hole at catcher, have no one else behind Wieters coming up, and the position is very hard to fill regardless. Colston would be the deep threat to complement Mason as Clayton does absolutely nothing for the team by doing the same shit as Mason. If Wieters was flipped for pitching heavy package, we would be losing a Joe Mauer type guy for additional pitching depth on top of our 6-7 guys who already have a shot at making the ML rotation.

I noticed that nobody has actually answered JP’s question. What could we get for Matt Wieters? Well, a lot obviously.

Yes, obviously.

He could be the centerpiece for a deal for Peavy or Prince Fielder.

Wieters is probably going to be a better player than Prince Fielder, so no thanks. Peavy is pretty suh-weet but why trade for a 28-year old pitcher when we have young guys (Tillman and Matusz) that could be outstanding by the time this team is ready to compete?

When you’re building for the future and you have the best prospect in the world of baseball, you don’t trade him unless you’re getting back an absolute bounty of prospects. Wieters is as close to a sure bet as it gets.

No one answered the question, I think, because the answer is clear (“a lot”) and no one wants to do it.

1. We include him (he’d be the centerpiece but not the only part of the deal) for a superstar. As you mentioned Peavy or Fielder are good examples.

2. We trade him straight up for another prospect (we’re not going to be getting multiple prospects for him). The only two I’d even consider trading Wieters for would be David Price or Clayton Kershaw and I highly doubt the Rays or Dodgers would do that (with Navarro and Russell).

Trading Wieters would just be a horrible idea. Its anything but selling high. As I stated earlier his value will be higher when he becomes a major league player, even if he doesn’t live up to expectations.

And we got Joba and Phil Hughes, too.

For a guy going on 34 who is earning 30 million a year? Maybe I would understand if we were making a push for 2009, but it doesn’t make much sense as we stand right now. Only player I would trade Wieters for would be Pujols.

Both can be regarded as throw away positions offensively, and Wieters projects to be much better defensively than Ramirez. Hanley is one of my favorite players outside of Baltimore, but Wieters could have a higher ceiling at the plate and looks to be much better defensively.

The Yankees wouldn’t allow themselves be outbid in the Sabathia sweepstakes by the Orioles. Additionally, who is to say that Mora/Huff don’t regress to below league average numbers. I’d put money on Furcal staying in L.A. If you attempt to make these moves, we would not have the money to pay late round draft picks, invest in international scouting, or extend Markakis/Jones.

The Orioles cannot have the best of both worlds; sure, Arrieta, Matusz and Tillman would be ready by 2010, but after that our system would be bare as a result of the 2008-2009 offseason splurge. I respect your opinion, but don’t you want sustained contention? We have gone this free agent path before, and it has never worked; we end up losing to big market teams on the real studs and settling on washed up veterans. If MacPhail set his sights on big name free agents, and then subsequently lost out on them, he would not be able to resolve that the minor league path is the right way. Instead, he would pursue older, lesser players like former GM’s have done for the past decade. I couldn’t think of anything more detrimental to this team.

They’re also getting Chris Ray back. If he can resume his closer role, then Sherrill could move back to his correct position of LH Setup.

I have a feeling that Ray won’t slip back into the closer role immediately. If Sherrill moves into a LOOGY role, his trade value will be damaged. They’ll let him close, hope he does well and then ask for something ridiculous in return.

Then I remembered we have zero viable options at SS anywhere in our entire system. GET FURCAL. It’d be reminiscent of Pudge to the Tigers.

My overriding point is that the AL East is more vulnerable now that it has been in several years.

I think the AL East is even stronger now because the Rays are so good… they;‘ll probably take the place occupied by the Yanks the last 10 years. The Yanks and Jays are still very good. Andl, of course, the Red Sox are an excellent team. We’re screwed.

I think it’s a mistake to assume that failing to sign the "gems" would necessarily result in signing lesser, mediocre veterans. I don’t think it’s ever wise to sign less-than-impact players to multi-year, multi-million contracts…its just an exercise in prolonging mediocrity…or worse.

Until the Orioles prove otherwise, they’re guilty.

…to assume that failing to sign the "gems" would necessarily result in signing lesser, mediocre veterans. I don’t think it’s ever wise to sign less-than-impact players to multi-year, multi-million contracts…its just an exercise in prolonging mediocrity…or worse.

Except that the O’s have repeatedly done that.

than going after free agents.

As far as my earlier comment about less-than-impact free agents, I have to disagree. Those contracts are the ones that good teams avoid and in which bad teams abound (Gibbons, Walker, Baez, Mora, etc., etc.).

That’s what I said, they should stay away from those type of moves. But you are going to need sign some guys to 2 year deals just get through 162 games next year.

As for the Orioles contending, we finished 28.5 games out of first place this year. Further back than all but 3 teams. Unless they go on a massive spending spree for a slew of top end FA’s (something they have never been able to do); I don’t see this team competing next year for the division.

Spending money on top end FA for 2009 makes no sense to me. Unless you have Yankee money, you need to build a core of players first.

and less like almost any other team in the league. I’m repeating what’s already been said, but they really need to focus on building internally and signing FA guys to fill holes when they’re ready to compete. Adding Teixeira would do very little and Hu, although I was high on him for the last year, doesn’t look like he’s healthy enough yet; he complained of blurred vision and was shut down.

it’s giving them up. the o’s scored more than the the rays and the angels, but both those teams have pretty damn solid front 3s…imagine how good the o’s would have been last year w/ guts and two guys w/ similar numbers anchoring the rotation?

Drafting and developing young pitching, and putting money towards LOCKING THEM UP. Like the Giants did with Cain, like DBacks did with Haren, like Kazmir and Shields of the Rays.

Obviously, Guthrie might not be the best target for lockup due to his age and Borass representation, but if guys like Tillman, Arrietta, Matsuz, etc. are solid and demonstrate great proficiency, it might be smart to hold on to them

As of right now, our infield needs to be addressed before we start stockpiling additional arms. I would be absolutely shocked if Mora, and possibly Huff, don’t regress significantly. Moreover, we don’t have anything coming up for the next few years.

We have seen the Orioles repeatedly make stabs at big name guys, come up short, and settle for whatever is left. Watching the Rays just reinforces the notion of building from within; they are the best team in the majors, and because of they’re all young, homegrown products, they will be able to contend for years to come. Luckily for us, when we build a system that produces like that, we have the money to go out and shore up a hole or two. Unfortunately, at this point, we have a lot more than a couple of holes.

If they can get decent value, they should Brian Roberts.

He is THE guy. We have had number one prospects come up in our system before who showed a ton of promise, but no one like Wieters. Nicky, for example, looked really good coming up through the farm, but most people didn’t regard him as highly as Wieters because, as good as his numbers were, they were not in the same league as what Matt has posted, and his stats were to be expected from a corner outfielder.

And the O’s re forced to trade him/let him walk, I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to trust the organization again.