Orioles looking at SS Cesar Itzuris
The article says that they're not interested in Furcal for price reasons, or Cabrera and Renteria because they don't want to pick up a class A free agent and give up draft picks.
Also notes that the Padres wanted to trade us Khalil Greene for Garret Olson, but the Orioles weren't interested. Khalil Greene sucks, so I don't really care.
11 months ago
math_geek
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Someone wants Garrett Olson?
Now there’s a headline
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
by exitfare on Nov 21, 2008 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. I would trade him for a couple boxes of game balls.
by O'sFan21 on Nov 21, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would keep Olson over Greene in a heartbeat
Greene has a 1 year until FA and sucks. As suggested by his minor league record, Olson still might have some upside.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 21, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Khalil freaking Greene
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/greenkh01.shtml
A 28 year old shortstop with a career OBP/OPS of .304/.427 And he was only worse last year with an OBP/OPS of .260/.339. His OPS+ last year was 64.
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's OBP/SLG
OPS would be both combined.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Nov 21, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, you're right
I just mistyped, meant to type OBP/SLG. If I could edit it right, I would.
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Khalil Greene
at all.
Granted, Cesar Izturis at the plate, well, that’ll make you avert your eyes.
But: +19 in 2008 at SS according to Dewan’s +/- system, consistently good in Pinto’s probablistic model of range…if you sign him for a bit you are conceding that you don’t care much about the bat but want a consistently good glove at SS. And given the shit parade we ran out there last year in BOTH categories, I’d take it.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Nov 21, 2008 11:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Beats the crap out of
Brandon Fahey at the plate.
"Whether your name is Gehrig or Ripken, DiMaggio or Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That's all I've ever tried to do."
by spike2131 on Nov 21, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 to this.
And .260 would be an improvement over much of what we got this past season.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
khalil Greene...
is absolutely miserable
by semaj2989 on Nov 21, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
y'know
Cesar Izturis is fine by me. He can pick it, and maybe with full-time play (if Diamond Dave doesn’t start yankin’ his chain) he can get back to his career year numbers of 2004, when he put up an eye-popping 88 OPS+.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Nov 21, 2008 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad that the Orioles aren't trying to sign big money guys except for Tex and Burnett
I’d be much happier if they were avoiding Burnett as well, but whatever.
With Tex, I’m torn because we might actually get what we are paying for.
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean everyone loves Mark Belanger, right?
I dunno if you can be a contender with Mark Belanger out there anymore, but the Orioles aren’t a contender anyway. Izturis is a perfectly acceptable stopgap. Pencil him in at #9 every day and try to figure out what you’re gonna do in a couple years.
by pipkin on Nov 21, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record
The Orioles had a much worse SS than Mark Belanger last year and scored 782 runs, which is more than the Angels, Rays, Brewers, and Dodgers scored. You want a SS who can hit for sure, but it’s not the end of the freaking world if you don’t have one.
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly...
wasn’t the shortstops out there giving up all those walks and home runs.
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Nov 22, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in this day an age
that is like having Tony Pena Jr as your SS.
Its also a big part why Cal Ripken, Jr. is legendary. He changed the position.
by sanders833 on Nov 23, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DO IT
With our pitching staff, it’s all about the defense.
Then again, a career line of .260 / .299 / .331, we’ll have to come up with some big offense somewhere else.
Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.
by CoachOfEarl on Nov 21, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a great sign
That MacPhail rejected Olson-for-Greene. Flanagan would’ve been all over that.
Olson reasonable upside may be LOOGY at this point, but at least there’s a chance he could contribute down the road. Greene is a stopgap.
by dkdc on Nov 21, 2008 1:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think we're being a little too down on Olson
Give him another shot, I say.
by pipkin on Nov 21, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll get it
who else are we going to put in there?
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stay patient
with Olson. I dont mind taking a look at Greene but not at the cost of giving up five years of a guy who will find it eventually.
I know Greene looked terrible last year but his road splits most of his career are not bad. Izturis isnt bad defensively and can run a bit but the hitting is light. I wouldnt mind seeing either one but I am not giving Olson to see Greene here for a year.
What prospect would we be willing to give up for Greene, assuming we take all the payroll of Greene?
by sanders833 on Nov 21, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't give up any prospect for Khalil Greene personally
well, maybe a fringe prospect if I was sure Greene would be a class A free agent or something.
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd give up failed prospect hayden penn
who might actually have a chance to be decent in the SD ballpark
by pipkin on Nov 23, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Penn
was exactly the guy I was thinking
I think you keep waiting on Greene until they call you and beg you to take him
by sanders833 on Nov 23, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd hold onto Penn
The difference between Greene and Cintron is what 1 win. And we would only have Greene for a year while Penn still has upside.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 23, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i just think the team's given up on him
i was a big proponent of giving him another shot, but that doesn’t seem to be happening, so might as well see if you can use him to get something.
by pipkin on Nov 23, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so might as well see if you can use him to get something.
Sure, I don’t think Greene counts as something though. We already have a Greene and his name is Alex Cintron.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 23, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cintron can play defense?
I was unaware of this.
by Dr Orpheus on Nov 24, 2008 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he can't,
but greene sucks with the glove as well. He’s better than Cintron though, but that isn’t saying much.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 24, 2008 3:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When did Cintron
hit 27 homers and drive in 97 runs in a season?
I would like to see a motivated (contract year) K Greene take a few shots at the Monster and our own left field porch in exchange for a fringe prospect (if we think Penn is healthy then yeah dont move him either). In the end I think K Towers is going to have to work real hard to move Greene and his salary.
Teams like Clev, Minn, Det might have a little interest but the salary works against that. I think in a month Towers will be pleading with Macphail to take Greene for nothing.
by sanders833 on Nov 24, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When did Cintron hit 27 homers and drive in 97 runs in a season?
Never. Greene hit OPS+ 64 last season before breaking his hand on a self-afflicted injury. He might bounce back, but who cares, if he does, he’ll be gone.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 24, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and...
cintron and greene’s best offensive seasons are pretty comparable by OPS+ (114 for greene to 112 for cintron). in that same season that greene smacked 27, he also had a pitiable .291 obp…that makes him sort of pedro feliz-esque except, of course, that feliz can pick it.
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Nov 24, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Greene
I still would like to see Greene in an AL offense in our park for 81 games in his contract year. If the cost is his contract what the heck is my opinion.
Maybe he finds it and we sign him mid season. If not, maybe we get a draft pick. Maybe arb, who knows. But if the cost is say Luis Hernandez (if he is still in the system) then what the hey is my call.
by sanders833 on Nov 24, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he finds it and we sign him mid season.
If he finds it, he’s testing FA unless we offer phat money. But getting the draft picks would be nice.
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 24, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ahahahha
WTG Andy!
“Whatever we are going to do, I am pretty confident that it’s going to be a significant improvement over what we had, not that that is a high bar,” said MacPhail, who has yet to make Izturis an offer.
by zknower on Nov 21, 2008 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
fahey and the merry bunch of elvian shortstops
While funny and true, I don’t think macphail should’ve said this. Presumably brandon fahey has the internets…and if he’s reading this page, for chrissake pack on some pounds!
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Nov 21, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Brandon, if you're reading this
please give up on baseball and never play for the Orioles again. Thanks.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Nov 21, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Olson?
Olson seems like AAAA fodder to me. Sure he’s left handed so he’ll go from team to team, but that doesn’t mean he’s good. Of course, Khalil Green isn’t good either and the very fact that this was offered as a serious offer tells you more about Olson than anything else.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Nov 21, 2008 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't even think he gets lefties out...
by O'sFan21 on Nov 21, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the bullpen can be a resurgence for crappy starters
Consider Sarfate as a starter versus Sarfate as a reliever
by math_geek on Nov 21, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the BP can add a few miles to Olson's fastball
Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."
by birdman on Nov 21, 2008 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garrett is a helluva nice guy
and when he is sharp, he can paint the corners wonderfully. Just too inconsistent so far, but hey, I haven’t given up completely. Lefties are such a commodity that I think he deserves at least one more serious look…
by sickuvitall on Nov 22, 2008 2:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and even if it's incremental...
he DID improve last year over his cup of coffee numbers. liz, however, was eerily consistent.
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Nov 22, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want Greene
But Olsen is most definitely worth holding onto.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Nov 22, 2008 9:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Olsen leaving
has that John Maine feel to it. On a team aching for Sp’s getting one year of Greene makes zero sense on even the slightest chance that Olsen makes it. SP development takes time. Even if he doesnt make it as a starter he may have a future in the pen. Its just way to early to give up on the kid.
There is no upside getting Greene for Olsen. There is upside to keeping Olsen. If it doesnt work so what. But who wants tor regret giving away a capable under control SP for one year of anybody in the O’s situation?
by sanders833 on Nov 23, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Olsen had too good of a minor league career to abandon him after one year; he at least deserves one more shot.
I’d like to have Greene because he’d be a decent stop gap with at least some kind of a ceiling. Sadly, if the Padres get rid of Khalil Greene, I believe they’re quite set on drafting Grant Green this year. If by some miracle Greene starts to hit in PETCO and the Padres decide to keep him, we may have at least a chance at a shortstop similar to Gordon Beckham.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Nov 23, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SP's who really struggled early
Some obvious ones are Koufax, Ryan, RJ
How about Jamie Moyer, Jonathan Sanchez on SF.
Check out Javy Vazquez’s first two years…..shield your eyes..
Check out E. Volquez’s first 20 starts for Texas over three years…not pretty
Mike Pelfrey on the Mets took awhile
Johan Santana struggled his first couple of years with the Twins
And this list could go on and on…..
by sanders833 on Nov 23, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Pelfrey is still going
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
by exitfare on Nov 23, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pelfrey would be our second best pitcher
He seems to be settling in now as he finished 13-11 with a 3.72 era and 19 quality starts out of 32. In 17 starts the previous two years he had an era of 5.5 and a whip of 1.75 in the NL East.
He should only get better and I suspect the same with Olsen. Remember when Erik Bedard looked lost a couple of seasons ago and like someone flipped a switch he became lights out until he got hurt (again).
My point is if the track record in Triple A (which by the way Olsen is about the only Oriole pitching prospect who has actually produced quality, meaningful stats at that level) suggest success then please just be patient. Losing patience with a young pitcher is easy to do. We cant afford to make that mistake.
by sanders833 on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should make a play for Jason Donald?
He’s blocked in Philly, so maybe a couple of bullpen caliber arms could get this to work?
Kid OPSed .888 in Reading last year.
by ADLC on Nov 23, 2008 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's projected as a second baseman, isn't he?
by Dr Orpheus on Nov 23, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
and he’ll start now that Utley is out for a while
by pipkin on Nov 23, 2008 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I was just confused as to what role ADLC was projecting for him. According to reports, he doesn’t have the arm or glove for a shortstop, so are you suggesting he play second and trade Roberts for a shortstop prospect or something? I’m trying to understand.
by Dr Orpheus on Nov 23, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he made a simple mistake
And thought Donald played SS, then he’d obviously be blocked by Rollins.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Nov 23, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I was very disappointed when I heard of Utley’s injury quite some time ago as that meant Jason Donald having an actual role in Philadelphia.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
by Baltimo on Nov 23, 2008 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Back to Isturis for a moment
The Cardinals seem like a perfect fit for him yet they are letting him walk. Makes you wonder why doesnt it? And they are rumored to be in on Crosby, which judging by the way the Cardinals spend money, doesnt ring true. Why not just resign Cesar? They must not have liked something.
by sanders833 on Nov 23, 2008 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think they just need production from another position
Perhaps there was something else involved, but my perception is that they need someone that can hit more then Itzuris.
by Dr Orpheus on Nov 24, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like we dont
Yes, I want defense but everyone thinks we have offense.
What if Roberts is traded…
Mora and Huff regress…Jones stays neutral, Luke Scott struggles in his second year with the club in the AL-he slumped badly from August on.
The Orioles need to look at more production offensively as well, if possible. You cant assume career years from Mora and Huff if they even remain with the club.
I would still like to take a look at Felipe Lopez for a year if Izturis is the best we can do. And I still like Greene or Crosby if the only cost is taking their salary from their current team. Heck, I even like Julio Lugo. He can play third, short, second even outfield. Of course we would need tremendous salary relief as well and consider this a long, long shot of ever happening.
Bottomline I guess is get an acceptable one year option without giving a prospect. If its Izturis I can live with it for a year. Anything is pretty much better then last year. But I hope we can do better then Izturis.
by sanders833 on Nov 24, 2008 12:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
fwiw...
the royals signed luis luis. insert joke [here].
(i mean, the orioles shortstop sitch was a joke last year, but for an org that has invested SEASONS in angel berroa and tony pena jr….uh, the fuck)
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Nov 25, 2008 3:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And now we know the reason
why the O’s will never be the WORST team in the AL. Wow, they saw Luis Luis as an improvement over what they had last year?
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
by duck on Nov 25, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, KC will be an offensive machine next year
First they trade for Mike Jacobs’ .300ish OBP, then this. I doubt that they’re penciling Luis Luis into the lineup, but I wouldn’t even want him as a warm body at AAA after last year. I’ve heard that Dayton Moore is leaning toward keeping DeJesus, otherwise I’d be panning the Crisp trade as well (Crisp over Gathright is an upgrade, which is what that move amounts to if DeJesus stays).
by Brotz13 on Nov 26, 2008 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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