The interest in Adam Dunn is non-existent...

i'm on board. sign his ass.

by pipkin on Nov 27, 2008 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What?

The Orioles aren’t interested in a 300 pound guy, who is terrible in the field, and is going on 30? Preposterous.

If I was MacPhail’s position, I’d not only sign Dunn, but I’d also bring in Burnett, Tex and Garland. I swear, we’d be title contenders for the next decade!

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 28, 2008 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

yeah, who needs 40 homers a year from a DH

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Nov 28, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You got me

I forgot that we have a gaping hole at the DH position, which needs to be filled on our contending team.

You probably know my position on bringing in guys near 30.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 28, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This farm system isn’t going to crap out nothing but diamonds. A lot of these guys are going to fail. Dunn — especially if cheaper than expected — is the right type of free agent to sign. Aubrey Huff can play first base.

There is nothing bad that comes from having good players on the team, and Dunn isn’t 37 or anything either. He’ll be good a while longer. He wouldn’t block anybody, he’ll keep walking 100 times and hitting 40 dongs, and his defensive problems become a moot point since all he’ll do in the AL is take his ABs.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Nov 28, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thank you sc

thank you thank you. I wanted to respond to Baltmo and I didn’t quite know how to put it. Dunn is exactly the kind of guy to go for, especially if other teams don’t like him and you can get a discount.

by pipkin on Nov 28, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah def

Dunn is a guy the O’s should go for. In all likelihood, Dunn probably already had his career year, but what cares? Hes still good for solid numbers. I don’t really see anything thats gonna stop him from doing his thing for the next few years.

Dunn is 29. Hes probably looking for a five year deal, but most teams will try to sign him for 3-4. Age isn’t an issue at all here.

Its not like hes being brought in as a franchise cornerstone or any team would have to really break the bank open to sign him. Hes just a really solid player with some good years left.

by UMterp08 on Nov 29, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Question #1

will he be blocking anyone in the system within the next 2 years?

Uh, no, no he won’t.

Question #2 – does he fill a need?

Yup, sure does. He can DH, and Huff goes to 1B, and all of a sudden, we have half of a ML infield as far as offense. No, Mora still doesn’t count.

Sign him.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 29, 2008 7:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Cool

There is nothing bad that comes from having good players on the team,

actually,

This farm system isn’t going to crap out nothing but diamonds,

so we should invest that money in the draft and internationally instead of on players with

defensive problems,

right?

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

I have nothing against Adam Dunn; on the contrary, I think he’s vastly underrated as his OBP more than makes up for his less than glamorous AVG. On a contending team, a guy that can drive people home and get on base is invaluable in the DH slot. However, if Dunn is going to only do

his thing for the next few years,

and

most teams will try to sign him for 3-4,

then what is the use as the O’s will not be contenders? I have no doubt that Dunn can post a nice HR total, OBP, SLG% and bat in a ton of runs, but it’s pointless if he is on a losing team. It’s just wasting more money. I don’t want Tex either, but at least that guy fills an actual position for the foreseeable future. Although Tex would begin to gracefully decline in 3-5 years, he would still be usable for a while longer. On the other hand, Dunn at 33/34 will either walk or be useless at his position. I’m sure this ticks people off, but if we’re not going to be in the hunt, then why even try to put quality on the field for the short term.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 29, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

Nothing against Dunn, he’s a excellent hitter, but he just doesn’t fit in with the team’s long term plans.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll disagree

I have no doubt that Dunn can post a nice HR total, OBP, SLG% and bat in a ton of runs, but it’s pointless if he is on a losing team.

I think the point is, sign some guys like Dunn and Tex and Burnett and then you hopefully don’t HAVE a losing team.

I’m all for the Dunn signing. He makes sense as DH, it causes zero problems in our lineup (Huff will be our 1B next year if Dunn signs or not, people, Millar ain’t coming back) and he’s getting signed for below what his value should be given the outs he avoids.

Sign him.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 30, 2008 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're entitled to your opinion

But I don’t believe we’re two pieces away from a contending team. If that’s the case, then why add veterans in the first place?

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 30, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

Even if we acquire Dunn, Tex, and Burnett, the pitching staff would still be one of the worst rotations in the AL unless Olson and R. Liz step it big time. And this is assuming Burnett will stay healthy.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take that one step further

Even if we added Tex, Burnett, Garland/Uehra/Byrd, and Furcal, we still wouldn’t make the playoffs. If Olson/Liz did step up, we’d probably get regressions from Mora, Sherrill, Huff and possibly Scott.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 30, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and JJ as well

just because it’s going to be hard to improve upon a 203 ERA+. Ramon might bounce back a bit though given that he’s a playing for a contract.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

JJ would only regress because, as you pointed out, it’s somewhat inevitable. However, his contributions would still be valuable to any team.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 30, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yes,

didn’t mean to suggest that JJ wouldn’t be valuable. Although I think he should get a crack at the rotation.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did Wayne Krivsky have a good relationship with him? Maybe he could give Dunn a call…

A friend of mine is a Reds fan and she reports that one of the few friends that Dunn had was Krivsky. Dunn was loathed by the Reds play by play team (arguably worse than Jim Hunter). I’d say that it should be easy to play left in Camden, but after watching Jay Gibbons butcher it I’m not so sure.

I’m not sure what role Dunn has…he seems a born DH, though I’m not sure if he agrees with that nor am I sure the wisdom of allocating those resources for a DH. Sure, having someone like Ortiz would be awesome, but I’m not sure he’s a luxury that the non-Yankee/Red Sox teams can afford. But I’d love to see him batting cleanup…

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 28, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I heard some of the PBP comments on XM a while back

“Loathed” is perhaps being too kind.

by PhilR8 on Nov 28, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Brennamans are schmucks

Father and son both. They are terrible, terrible commentators and I don’t care what their legacy is in Cincinnati. They’re a black eye on their profession. They’re ill-informed, completely biased to their own ideals, and have refused to acknowledge the legitimacies of thinking any other way. They insult players they don’t like and insult the intelligence of their audience. They’re mean-spirited, hateful, unhappy men. I’m sure someone disagrees, but I’ll pull a Brennaman and not be open to hearing any other thoughts.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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by SC on Nov 28, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a great thread on the subject

Marty Brennaman Really Does Hate Adam Dunn [Red Reporter]

Great read that illuminates the many opinions regarding Dunn, and the average Reds’ fan opinion of Brennaman. Who knew that the Reds had such informed and articulate fans? Well done.

by PhilR8 on Nov 28, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Best reply

Marty
Ya know, I used to defend Marty quite a bit, especially to my friends from out of town.

Until a game last year. There was a rain delay, and Marty and Steve were taking calls. A caller asked how ERA was calculated. Steve flat stated he didn’t know, and Marty’s answer was both convoluted and completely wrong. That’s right, the “Hall of Famer” couldn’t even explain the most basic pitching stat available.
just….wow.

by sidnancy on Feb 5, 2007 9:41 AM EST actions actions 0 recs

by PhilR8 on Nov 28, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hysterical

Brennamen: I think he was overweight last year. He walks to his position. He walks off the field. You see no energy whatsoever and that disappoints the heck out of me.

This is like saying the Orioles biggest problem is a lack of energy, not a lack of talent. Thanks for posting this!

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 28, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares?

Sounds like this guy may be cheaper than he should be.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Nov 28, 2008 8:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd almost rather have Dunn...

…than Tex, but only because he’d be a hell of a lot cheaper. And yeah, as SC said…40 dongs, 100 walks, and I don’t give a rusty fart about his Ks or if he gets fat or what he does in the field during interleague. Sign him.

WTH, sign ’em both!

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Nov 29, 2008 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd defeinitely rather have Dunn

He’s undervalued where as Teixeira is overvalued right now. And maybe more importantly, he probably wouldn’t need a long term contract.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Nov 30, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So then what is the point?

I’m not sure I get it.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 30, 2008 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The point is I think spending the money for Teixeira would be a huge mistake for the Orioles. He’s going to require locking up large amounts of money long term. That doesn’t seem to be a smart move for a rebuilding team that is likely still a year away from knowing what they really need. It’s also a mistake seeing that he would likely be blocking the second best position player prospect.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s also a mistake seeing that he would likely be blocking the second best position player prospect.

Which prospect are you talking about? I didn’t know we had a 1B prospect, Otherwise, Tex could help us during the rebullding and potential winning phases.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brandon Snyder

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brandon Synder had a bounce back year but I wouldn’t let him stand in the of getting Tex. He’s probably two-three years away from being ready. If he turns out be any good, we can deal with that problem at that time. At worst, we could DH him if we sign Tex.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 to 3 years would be somewhere in the middle of the Tex’s contract. Snyder is no sure thing, but I don’t see the point in just throwing him away, or having to have him locked in as a DH if he does work out.

Why not wait to see what we really need before we give away a couple draft picks, negating or at very least having to find a new position for one of our better prospects, and commiting large amounts of money for the next 5+ years.

And if we are going to commit money prematurely, why not do it where we have a definite need down the road like SS or the rotation. And if that player doesn’t exist, than save your money and find him next year. It’s not like are going to compete with the leaders in 2009.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 to 3 years would be somewhere in the middle of the Tex’s contract. Snyder is no sure thing, but I don’t see the point in just throwing him away, or having to have him locked in as a DH if he does work out.

I guess it comes down to what type of risk you’re willing to take. Risk 1) Pass on Tex, pass the job to Synder, Synder turns out to be bust. Risk 2) Sign Tex, Synder turns out to be a very good 1B, being suck with two above average 1B. I much rather than make the second mistake especially since Synder isn’t a great prospect to begin with. According to Sickets, he’s a B- prospect with a “horrible” glove.

Why not wait to see what we really need before we give away a couple draft picks, negating or at very least having to find a new position for one of our better prospects, and commiting large amounts of money for the next 5+ years.

Why not wait? Because Tex is a rare talent. Young, gold glove defense, top notch offensive player. Maybe 6-10 players of this type of free agent come along in a decade.

And if we are going to commit money prematurely, why not do it where we have a definite need down the road like SS or the rotation.

We could do both, that is sign Tex and another good free agent down the road especially since Mora, Huff, and Roberts will be coming off the books soon.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s very, very good, no argument there, but it’s not like huge hitting firstbasemen are that rare. 6-10 a decade would mean that we have a very good chance of seeing another Tex next year. Maybe even for a position where we know we have no other alternatives.

And the only thing that is more overrated than a firstbasemens defense is the gold glove award. Our boy Raffy won it in Texas one year where he was primarily a DH.

BTW, you forgot one other risk. There is the risk that Teix is a little of a disappointment, and the Orioles are straddled with that contract for the next 8 years. The downside of that risk is we maybe talking about how the Orioles haven’t finsihed over 500 for the last 20 years. Easy way to minimize that risk is to actually wait until you need the big money FA. And the easy to maximize the payoff would be to get that big money FA at a position you have the biggest need.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s very, very good, no argument there, but it’s not like huge hitting firstbasemen are that rare.

Good hitting 1B are not rare. Texiera is a top shelf hitter even among 1B. Throw in excellent defense, he’s a rare talent. .

6-10 a decade would mean that we have a very good chance of seeing another Tex next year. Maybe even for a position where we know we have no other alternatives.

6-10 is pretty generous regarding position players. Who’s the next stud free agent? Next year’s free agent class doesn’t have any Texiera like names.

And the only thing that is more overrated than a firstbasemens defense is the gold glove award. Our boy Raffy won it in Texas one year where he was primarily a DH.

Fine. See Bill James’ Fielding Bible. Texiera an excellent defender.

BTW, you forgot one other risk. There is the risk that Teix is a little of a disappointment, and the Orioles are straddled with that contract for the next 8 years.

Yes, you’re right. Risk 3 should be: We sign Tex, Tex goes into the crapper, This is certainly the worst case scenario. But I’m very willing to take this risk given Tex’s track record, youth, and his skills set should age well. And most importantly, Synder just isn’t very good. If we dont’ sign Texiera, the next stud free agent 1B will be a past 30 Ryan Howard.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

btw, the next stud free agent is Matt Holliday

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill has him at 6th, that’s very good, but I mean we aren’t talking about the 1B version of Brooks Robinson here. And how many runs then wins does that really translate to? My guess is that its really not that many for a 1st baseman. Also, I don’t know how James dtermines his ratings, but I do know that Teixeira is actually a few fielding runs worse than average for his career.

And Howard maybe the next stud free agent FIRST BASEMEN. We don’t neccesarilly need a 1B, at least not as bad as other positions. And I’d say 6-10 is probably very conservative if you are talking about all FA. There is at least 1 FA that is comparable to Teixeira’s talent just about every year.

If you think that the Orioles biggest need is a top end firstbasemen and that need is urgent, than I could see the faciniation with signing Teixeira. I just don’t see that as the O’s biggest need and the need is really not that urgent; and could be addressed far cheaper with far less risk, which will allow the O’s to continue to address specific needs.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill has him at 6th, that’s very good, but I mean we aren’t talking about the 1B version of Brooks Robinson here. And how many runs then wins does that really translate to?

Not sure about wins. Brooks Robinson is kind of a high bar to set. Teixera is a terrific defender though. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

And Howard maybe the next stud free agent FIRST BASEMEN. We don’t neccesarilly need a 1B, at least not as bad as other positions.

Yeah, I mean we at least have Synder at 1ST whereas we have NOBODY lined up at 3rd, SS, or 2B unless you count Rowell at 3rd. But like I said, Snyder just isn’t very good. He’s the not the type of player you bank on (like say Wieters) in justifying NOT making moves. Even the RS, who have Lars Anderson who’s pretty good 1B prospect, are after Tex. You sign the talent and sort it out later if the prospect comes through. I would much rather risk having too much talent than NO talent at any position.

If you think that the Orioles biggest need is a top end firstbasemen and that need is urgent,

I don’t think it’s the biggest need nor do I think the need is any more urgent than at 3rd, SS, or 2nd. The next stud IF free agent may not be until Howard, Fielder, or JJ Hardy. I’d take Tex over Howard and Fielder in a second.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

a rebuilding team that is likely still a year away from knowing what they really need

I’d defeinitely rather have Dunn

he probably wouldn’t need a long term contract.

If we’re a year away from even KNOWING what we need, then why bring in a guy going on 30? That was my question.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Dec 1, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Because we can lock him up for far less money and duration than we can Tex.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But we would be locking him up during our rebuliding phase. What’s the difference between a 66 win team versus a 69 win season?

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Depends on when you think we can be competitive

I don’t think it’s out of the question that 2010 is possible if a bunch of things pan out. And if we can get a deal on a player like Dunn, I don’t see why you don’t lock him up for 3 or maybe even 4 years.

You’re right though, the Orioles future isn’t going to be determined one way or another by Dunn. But he is cheap and Dunn/Huff is an upgrade over Millar/Huff.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 1, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it’s out of the question that 2010 is possible

If we can compete by 2010, let’s get Tex and Dunn. But there’s no way that will happen. Our pitching is terrible. Matusz could be ready by 2010 but Tillman and Arrieta will probably need need to take their lumps in 2010.

by birdman on Dec 1, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's my thinking

If we looked ready to compete in 2010, I’d be all for one of Dunn/Tex and Burnett. However, I don’t see that being the case.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Dec 1, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want him

If he really is drawing no interest, that is ridiculous. He’s great. And as far as him being old, he’s one year older than Teixeira. What an old fart.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Nov 29, 2008 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow...

…are these Dunn detractors really this out of it (no offense Baltimore)? If Dunn can be gotten for a discount on account of GMs being stuck in the 1950’s then we should be going full speed ahead after this guy. Something tells me the O’s, even with MacPhail, just aren’t that smart though.

by Jonny Pops on Nov 29, 2008 12:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I dunno..

We need to add a bat, I think everyone knows that. Once the market for Tex establishes and we’re out of it, I could maybe see Andy deciding to go after Dunn. Maybe.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Nov 29, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t have anything against Dunn. The strikeouts don’t bother me. I’m not sure what type of contract he wants. Dunn serves no purpose 2-3 seasons except to add a few meaningless wins. If he wants a 4 year, 80M deal, I would rather pass simply because the O’s would probably look to trade him around the time they are projected to be competitive. I MUCH rather have Texiera. Better player, and he’s probably looking for a contract that will help us through the transition and hopefully winning seasons.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 2:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You do rememvber

who Tex’s agent is, right? Tex ain’t gonna be about nuthin’ but helping Tex. If we bid the most, we’ll sign him (MAYBE). If we don’t, we don’t get him. It’s (hopefully) as simple as that.

My fear is, we put in the highest bid, and he STILL signs with NYY or BOS.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 30, 2008 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I said I much rather have Tex, I didn’t say we’d get him. Actually, I’ve been saying all along that we won’t.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn vs. Teixeira...

2004
T 131 OPS+ 38HR 112RBI 117RC
D 146OPS+ 46HR 102RBI 132RC
2005
T 144OPS+ 43HR 144RBI 140RC
D 141OPS+ 40HR 101RBI 122RC
2006
T 126OPS+ 33HR 110RBI 121RC
D 114OPS+ 40HR 92RBI 109RC
2007
T 150OPS+ 30HR 105RBI 115RC
D 136OPS+ 40HR 106RBI 117RC
2008
T 151OPS+ 33HR 121RBI 134RC
D 129OPS+ 40HR 100RBI 111RC

I’m not sure if this comparison shows how ridiculous it is that there isn’t more interest in Dunn or how effing awesome Mark Teixeira has been. But I’ll take either – the upside to Teix is rep + prodigal son angle + badass #4 switch-hitting 1B & all that entails. The upside to Dunn is that you get a serious power threat & run producer to sit in the middle of your lineup for a lot less coin than you’d have to shell out for Teixeira.

If Dunn isn’t plan “B” I have some serious questions about MacPhail’s strategy. I understand building the core first but you do have to keep an eye on what will be available to you in FA when you feel you’re ready to add those pieces. If the crop is better now, grab them now.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Nov 29, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure if this comparison shows how ridiculous it is that there isn’t more interest in Dunn or how effing awesome Mark Teixeira has been.

Dunn can’t play defense. He’s seen largely as a DH and I believe rightly so. DHes don’t get much love as Aubrey Huff will find out next offseason even if he puts up another good year. In contrast, Texiera is a top notch defender. Nobody wants to give out a long term, expensive contract to guy who can’t play the field.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

If we have to lock up to much money in Dunn we have to look at the fact that we have to fill every infield slot by 2010. If you could get Dunn for maybe the same deal we gave Aubrey Huff ( 3 years at 8) maybe we could look at it. But the Orioles need to spend dollars on defense and infield corners plus pitching before we blow a chunk on Dunn.

I just dont think Dunn at 12 mill for say five years fits the organizational plan.

And whether it was justified or not I still have JP Richardi’s scathing indictment of Dunn ringing in my ears….

by sanders833 on Nov 29, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And whether it was justified or not I still have JP Richardi’s scathing indictment of Dunn ringing in my ears….

Dunn probably is a lazy shit, but who cares, he produces. In any case, I would rather take a gamble on a good minor league free agent like Dan Johnson or Dallas McPherson (if they’re available) or a vet one year stopgap than put a ton money into Dunn. If we were ready to compete next year, I would love to have Dunn.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ready to compete

Is the key, then yes you would look at your budget and see if you make a deal that makes sense.

But the reality is we need starting pitching. MM is here for one year and no minor leaguer ready. No shortstop and nothing in the minors. Brian is either going to be traded or require a four year extension around 11 million a year. And if Aubrey leaves we dont have a 1b and Brandon Snyder is not really a good fielder and doesnt hit for power (are we talking Ross Gload at 1b for goodness sake).

The best fit might just be seeing if Aubrey Huff would sign an extension for two years say at 9. I dont think that is a perfect solution either but it might be worth exploring at some point if you cant really get a prospect or pitching for him now.

You could also offer a 1 million contract to Frank Thomas if you want a cheap DH.

by sanders833 on Nov 29, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather Frank Thomas than extend Huff. His production will decline and I don’t want to be on the hook when that happens.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

Nobody wants to give out a long term, expensive contract to guy who can’t play the field.

Manny Ramirez has a differing opinion, but okay. I haven’t advocated giving a long term expensive contract to Dunn. He’d be a hell of a lot cheaper than Teix & give you a lot more bang for your buck, offense-wise. Teix is going to be expensive as hell. Not that I’m against signing him, either. Pete’s got the money.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Nov 29, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Manny Ramirez has a differing opinion, but okay.

Come on man, Manny is a FAR better hitter than Dunn at a comparable age. Both had their walk years at age 28. Manny hit 186 OPS+, Dunn hit 136+. At age 27, Manny hit 173 OPS+, Dunn hit 114+. At age 26, Manny hit 146 OPS+, Dunn hit 141 OPS+. Dunn couldn’t hold Manny’s jock strap in the two years leading up to their free agency.

by birdman on Nov 29, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Then again...

there are maybe 30 hitters in MLB history that could, right?

And Dunn’s not costing Many money.

If I saw a lineup in 2009 that said

1. Brian Roberts
2. Adam Jones
3. Nick Markakis
4. Adam Dunn
5. Aubrey Huff
6. Luke Scott
7. Melvin Mora
8. Matt Wieters
9. SS – TBA

I’d be a pretty happy Orioles starting pitcher most nights.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 30, 2008 8:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

there are maybe 30 hitters in MLB history that could, right?

Given that Manny is a sure fire, HOF talent, probably. But I was just responding to the suggestion that Dunn and Manyy are comparable talents at the time they entered free agency.

I’d be a pretty happy Orioles starting pitcher most nights.

I would too. As a fan, I would be pissed. What the hell are Huff and Roberts still doing on the roster. Can’t Andy muster up a couple of decent prospects who develop into replacing Huff and Roberts? IF Andy can’t find a deal that beats the compensation picks we would receive for Huff and Roberts leaving, then yes, keep him. Otherwise, they need to be gone.

by birdman on Nov 30, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we're finding out

that the market for those two players isn’t what we expected. We wouldn’t gain enough coming back to make trading them make sense.

It’s not like Brian’s out there fielding 2nd base with a walker, and Huff, surprisingly, looks like he can still hit.

It doesn’t do the O’s or MacPhail any good to give them away – we might as well get the draft picks if that’s the case.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 30, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If there is no market for Roberts

Which I doubt, then keep him and let him walk for draft picks. The problem is that people are pushing for Roberts to sign an extension, and there are serious talks going on. Call me a cynic, but I don’t foresee a sign and trade.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 30, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem

is you are still not winning games because you still dont have pitching and have locked up Dunn for five years and now in 2010 you dont have Huff, Mora or Roberts.

I understand wanting to score runs. But adding a 5 year/12 million DH doesnt solve the any infield holes, starting pitcher deficiencies and ties up payroll.

When you sign a long term guy you cant think one year out. Dunn doesnt fit the long term reconstruction of the team at this moment.

Sign a Frank Thomas if its that bad, or just let a Nolan Reimold, Luke Scott or Luis Montazez fill the slot. Heck, you could even give Matt Weiters some bats there if you wanted although you would have to carry three catchers (assuming we still have RH).

by sanders833 on Nov 30, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

But...

adding a 5 year/12 mill DH doesn’t preclude solving those other problems, either. There’s not a small finite amount of money allocated to next year’s budget – say, a 75 million self-imposed cap. Signing Dunn doesn’t keep us from signing Burnett with the amount of money this franchise is making. We may not be the MFY, but we sure as hell shouldn’t be operating like the Marlins, either.

To paraphrase our incoming president…

A GM should be able to do two things at once.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Nov 30, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If we are going to spend that much

it should fill at least one of the four infield positions or a starting pitcher slot dont you think?

Its just a contract with no upside-no defense, no bullpen, no starting pitching. I want to go after those needs with the money first.

Now if in January he is still out there and wants to talk about a two year deal then maybe something can be worked out…

by sanders833 on Dec 1, 2008 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and now...

dunn was not offered arbitration, so he wouldn’t even cost draft picks to sign. this almost makes too much sense for it to get done.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 2, 2008 11:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Dunn: Yes. Tex: No

Count me among the Dunn lovers. As others have said, there’s no reason why we can’t both rebuild the team and have a few decent veterans around at the same time. Tex will cost too much and require too long term a commitment. If Dunn can be obtained at great value and for, say, 4 years instead of Tex’s 6+, then I think he’ll be worth it.

by silverstadium on Dec 2, 2008 11:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

there’s no reason why we can’t both rebuild the team and have a few decent veterans around at the same time.

SAVE THAT MONEY TOWARDS THE DRAFT!!!! Sign players who want over the slot money, that’s what we need, not Dunn.

by birdman on Dec 2, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Was just

about to add that Dunn was not offered arb. I like it. What’s the price tag likely to be? I would like to think that 4 years of Dunn would allow him to be on at least 2 competitive O’s teams.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 2, 2008 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I still dont get it

The Orioles wont lose their draft pick anyway so it doesnt change anything.

Dunn turned down a two year offer from Arizona. The Orioles are not going to offer a long term deal to Dunn. Its not going to happen, not if you want to keep payroll flexibility going forward.

Plus Dunn wont sell one season ticket. And if he throws in a .215 season his contract will be a boat anchor and the fans will revolt further. Picture this team in Aug and Sept, when the starting pitchers again all have sore arms and the bullpen pitchers all have sore arms and ask yourself how Dunn will change that situation. How many quality innings did he thow, how many runs did he save with his glove, how many runs did the bullpen save the starters? He might look good hitting some homers in late spring or in June or July but he wont solve what ails this team.

Pitching, defense, bullpen, should be the priorities.

I would rather sign AJ Burnett with the money then Dunn (I am sure he thinks 5 @15 which is basically AJ)
I would like to trade Brian for pitching (I have mentioned Javy Vazquez and Clayton Richard)
Trade Daniel Cabrera straight up Jason Marquis and F Pie. Cubs dump salary, we get a one year innings eater and prospect.
I would like to see if we can get Randy Wolf now that Houston is out.
John Garland (who I didnt want) may be off the market since the Angles offered arbitration and he had a 12 million salary his last year.
If we trade Brian, I would like to look at O Hudson and we still need a SS and in 2010 we need a third baseman and first baseman.
IF we upgrade the starting pitching I would like to consider adding Kerry Wood (two year max) and reslotting the entire bullpen. I would also consider Juan Cruz for a three year deal, maybe as closer, maybe as starter or maybe just to eat quality innings.

That would be my plan. I am not going to shoot a big wad of my payroll especially in years ahead that may be plagued by a recession on a guy who cant take the field. Sorry, I wont do it.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn

made 13 last year while Burnett made 13.2. I would guess Burnett gets quite a bit larger raise than Dunn considering he’s one of the better SP FAs on the market after CC and Peavy. I don’t disagree with what you are saying about pitching and defense but I just don’t see many of those holes being filled. I hope I’m wrong but I see more of the same next year.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 2, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

peavy

is not a free agent. the highest rated seem to be cc, lowe, burnett and oliver perez. i’m still curious about sheets. he seems to be generating little interest, but seems indistinguishable from burnett in terms of injury history and has pretty similar career numbers.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 2, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's right...

my bad. Peavy isn’t a FA.

What about Braden Looper as a stopgap? He made 5.5 last year and was not offered arb.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 2, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Things that make you go blahhhh

Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says Looper is seeking at least a three-year deal.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

seeking is the operative word

Varitek is also seeking a Jorge Posada type deal.

by birdman on Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand

I think Scott and Jason will be seeking a long time….

However, this might end real soon because I wouldnt be surprised if Jason accepts arbitration from the Red Sox.

Back to Looper, you put him on the list, wait and see what the landscape looks like and if we are desperate and he is, that is where stopgaps meet. But I dont like his chance for success in the AL East much.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

or Randy “Hungry Like a” Wolf. He wasn’t offered arb either. He might come cheaply as well.

by birdman on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is the guy I like as well

But I think he would want a 3 year deal at 8 and I might be underselling him. The Mets would probably be high on him. Milwaukee, LA Dodgers, Angels if Garland or CC doesnt sign, Texas but they have been quiet, and I guess all of the AL East teams would inquire except Tampa.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

3/8 for wolf?

yeah, i don’t think that’d it fly, but it might.

i think a lot of dudes are going to have a serious wake up calls vis a vis contract demands. this will be a BIG market correction year.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 2, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Quality starting pitcher

doesnt quite correct as much since the demand is strong. Now Wolf will be interesting. Is he considered “quality starting pitching”? When he is healthy he is a solid number 3.

Kind of like fantasy the free agent tier is

CC T-1
AJ, Lowe T-2
Sheets, Oliver Perez, Randy Johnson, Pettitte T-3
Wolf, Garland, Byrd, B Penny, P Martinez T-4

I will lump the rest but you could keep splitting guys like Looper, B Colon, M Mulder, M Prior, Odalis Perez, Freddie Garcia, Carl Pavano, etc. I would consider Pavano on the same deal that Atlanta just gave Mike Hampton possibly. I would have interest in Pedro as well although I think he goes to the Mets. The problem is the AL East is not where pitchers like to go to re establish their market value.

You can argue that any of the tier four guys could go up and Wolf comes off a pretty strong year. Of course, pitching is so inconsistent. A team starting off last year with Sheets and Penny at say 1-2 would have been a team thought to have strong pitching.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Hampton

signed with Houston obviously.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Question

Why would Hampton want a 1 year deal with no options? I get that he wants to prove he’s healthy and that great that a guy with injury history will go out and prove himself but what’s the deal with the options? Is that just him saying he didn’t want options b/c he wasn’t going to get them anyway? Just curious.

I’m not a big fan of either Byrd or Wolf. I think Penny, Sheets and Perez would be interesting.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 2, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no, i realize that...

my comment on market correction was meant more “globally” and i was suggesting that 3/8 for wolf wouldn’t fly b/c it would be too low.

why do YOU think sheets is t-3? i think he’s every bot as durable and effective (if not more so) than burnett.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 2, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because Sheets is hurt right now

HIs timing is bad.

by sanders833 on Dec 2, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ah...

i did not know that.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 3, 2008 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

both...

definitely merit a look since both garland and byrd were offered arb (you figured garland would, but paul byrd?)

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 2, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vazquez >> Atlanta

So much for that.

As for Dunn, that lineup above looks pretty good to me, and I am fine with Huff as 1B. All depends on price. I wouldn’t go 5 years with him, but I don’t think anyone else would either. We could be in the driver’s seat here, no need to rush.

by fishoutawata on Dec 3, 2008 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Aw sh..

On Vazquez, we obviously didnt match up with the White Sox once they decided to go young. Of course, we dont match up with anyone who wants to go young unless we go one of our top four minor leaguers which doesnt really make sense.

Really the only guy I see to trade is Brian to get legit players at this point. Huff and Scott may draw a prospect but I doubt it.

by sanders833 on Dec 3, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huff

is Huff or will he be a Type A free agent? Since he wasn’t traded last season my guess would be that he might be more valuable to us if he becomes a Typa A FA next year.

Looks like ATL is going to offer Burnett 5 years. Not sure I’d be comfortable with offering him 5.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 3, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what's worse?

not getting vazquez or not getting lillibridge? i thought for sure that macphail could pry that fucker loose.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 3, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not getting Lillibridge

Vazquez is a one year rental. He serves no purpose with us except to win a couple of meaningless games.

by birdman on Dec 3, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lillibridge?

Looks like he had a pretty lousy year: .220/.294/.344 in his second go-round at AAA Richmond, and .200/.238/.338 in 80 AB in Atlanta on top of that. Now, his overall minor league stats are much better than last year indicates, but I would think his performance in ’08 is cause for concern.

by Brotz13 on Dec 3, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i'm not particularly impressed with his numbers either

But if I could have him or Vazquez, give me Lillibridge… or give me Vazquez so I could him trade him for a players better than Lillibridge.

by birdman on Dec 3, 2008 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No Vazquez

Was signed for two years. That would have been a solid 200 innings per year. And if he pitched well the first half of year one you probably could have added a year to his deal in this market.

Man this club needs pitching.

Basically Atlanta is taking my pitching plan-adding Vazquez for basically Flowers in my opinion and then going all in on Burnett who looks good in the NL East. It wouldnt surprise me if Atlanta tried to get Hoffman to add some bullpen depth and reslot Gonzalez and Rafael Sorianno.

Which just means if AJ lets CC sign somewhere other then the Yanks, the Yanks might just be desperate enough to offer AJ six years, just because they friggin can.

I had no interest in Lillibridge. I was going to look at Hudson. But I really have no interest in adding Hudson or a big dollar free agent until we improve the pitching.

by sanders833 on Dec 3, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously depends on what kind of year he has

If he has another year like last, I would guess he’s an A, top 30%

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 3, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Two things

Huff has been notoriously inconsistent and how many free agents were allowed to walk without arbitration this winter? IF Huff has a bad year you want to pay him another 8-10 million if he accepts arbitration? Same with Melvin, Ramon Hernandez? Folks this aint happening. I doubt any of them would get arbitration from the O’s.

I would really try to utilize the fact he had a great year and a team that is close can have him for a one year rental. Still very few matchups with other teams and of course I think the O’s would have to eat salary to move him.

Minn, Tampa Bay, maybe the Angels if they get shut out…

Plus would somebody tell me how Florida might get Jonathan Sanchez for Jorge Cantu? IF that deal goes through I might just have a seizure! Calling Andy MacPhail, calling Andy MacPhail….trade them Huff and Scott….calling Andy….eat salary….Andy pick up the phone…..

by sanders833 on Dec 3, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh. I was just saying he’s probably going to be a type A if he has another season like he did this year. And if he does, yeah, I’d pay him another $8-10M.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 3, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

brian sabean...

is an asshole.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 3, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

About the only thing I can say

for Sabean is he didnt pick Billy Rowell…..and then picked some pitcher…I guess the O’s didnt need.

by sanders833 on Dec 3, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ouch, man...

yeah, there is that. so, maybe, he should just go back to scouting and leave the executive stuff to guys that don’t have old man fetishes?

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 4, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Huff at first

Huff is not a very good defensive first baseman. At this point in his career he should be a DH. Dunn is a good player, but players with low batting averages generally age poorly. Any contract over 3 years would be a mistake. The O’s will give up more run’s with Huff’s glove. They will score more with Dunn’s bat than they would with a replacement level player (Millar). Dunn is only worth (to the O’s) the difference between the runs he produces and the runs Huff allows. This makes him less valuable to Baltimore than a team that can DH him without compromise, but if his value is discounted to the point that it reaches the new value, Mac should sign him.

by uneasy rider on Dec 5, 2008 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs