Outside the box thinking: shortstop

by Dr Orpheus on Nov 3, 2008 4:09 PM EST Comment 46 comments

So, Tim Dierkes from mlbtraderumors.com has made his predictions for free agent destinations this offseason. It's a fine list. As I skimmed it, looking for whom he thought the Orioles would target, I was surprised by his belief that not only would the Orioles win out on the A.J. Burrnett sweepstakes, they'd also sign Felipe Lopez to fill their vacancy at short. "Huh," I thought, "no, that makes no sense."

While Lopez did, as Dierkes suggests, "mash" last season for the Cardinals, I just don't see that making all that much sense. He seems like a very forced, one-dimensional player. What I mean by that is, like Neifi Perez, he's either a very good defensive player or a very good hitter. When his glove is on, his bat is lacking and vice versa. With that in mind, I don't think it's clear which Lopez the Orioles will get. He'd be an enigma. And this team alrady has Daniel Cabrera to ffill that role.

If Lopez is right out, I'm suggesting looking elsewhere. Elsewhere, like Japan. Tomohiro Nioka is primarily a shortstop - played some third ('03, '06, and '07) and the outfield ('02) - and a free agent this offseason.

Why? It's simple. The guy has a solid, not great, glove at short - 59 errors in his 7-year career - with a fielding precentage of .983 and a career batting average of .285 (being hurt by his first 4 seasons of professional ball). Translated over to the MLB and the batting average drops a bit but it's still quite a bit better then the output from last year's parade of wet noodles.

What's more is he can be shifted to third or the outfield if a younger player can be found and before Billy Rowell, a guy I have little to no faith in at this point, is ready to take over at the hot corner.

And finally, money. Bringing in Japanese players yields instant results in marketing and ad revenue. Money this team dearly needs to continue fostering their farm system.

Thoughts? Am I insane? Other outside the box thoughts?

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Like I've outlined in the "B-Rob to SS" post

We need to keep in mind that these free agents are mere stopgaps. If it was up to me, I’d leave Castro/Fahey/Cintron at SS because it’s not like we’re contending anyways, and they’re certainly not expensive. However, if the Orioles are going to go out and get a free agent, I actually wouldn’t mind Felipe Lopez. A decent bat and a decent glove is all I want out of a temporary shortstop. I don’t know anything about that Japanese player, but I don’t see the use in bringing in a 33 year old guy. Any Japanese free agent is pretty much a no-no for rebuilding teams, right? Being a free agent means that they’ve been in the league for nine(?) years and are pretty much past their prime. Admittedly, I don’t know enough about the Japanese league to really comment, but if the press/ads that he brings in result in a net profit, I guess it would work.

The long term solution is Grant Green. He is a monster out of USC; I like him more than G. Beckham, and he could be in Baltimore by late 2010. Although that seems like a long time, this team could be stacked with young talent by 2011 because our current system will have graduated and they’ll all be contributing at the same time. To a lesser degree, Robbie Shields is an option, but unless he has a pretty fantastic season, the number five pick is overpaying for him. Because I see the Nats and Mariners both going for starting pitchers, the Padres seem like the only viable option for Grant Green. Hopefully Khalil Greene has a monster season, making Padres want to keep him and therefore bypassing Grant Green, but if not, Greene would be another cheap solution for us at SS.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 3, 2008 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

japanese no-no?

aki iwamura?

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Nov 3, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Iwamura

Was 27 when he came over. Still not that young, but a lot better than a guy going on 33.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 3, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not sure who...

…but what I’d like to see the Orioles do is take on a bad contract in exchange for a prospect. For example, let’s say that the Dodgers wanted to get rid of either Andruw Jones or Juan Pierre so they could sign Manny…perhaps we could get a SS prospect (in AA) and take on all of the remaining deal for whatever bad contract in exchange for say someone like Rocky Cherry.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 3, 2008 5:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe the Os have a contract that lopsided

If Tejada were still around he could be swapped for Jones or Pierre but there’s no contract that horrible.
Luckily, this team has few albatrosses. …sure, there’s Mora, yeah.

by Dr Orpheus on Nov 3, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

bad contracts

What I meant was that we’ll take on a bad contract to get a good prospect. So the deal would be Pierre + decent SS prospect for next to nothing (bullpen arm).

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 3, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the contracts

Not a bad idea if you could structure it properly. I’d want the medical exam to be very thorough.
I wouldn’t consider them prospects and I’d want LAD to eat some of that huge salary. It’s a lot of money to pay for people who can’t get on base.

Jones: 08:$9M, 09:$15M

agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 11.047

Pierre: 07:$7.5M, 08:$8M, 09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M

agent: Mark Pieper, SFX
ML service: 7.056

Furcal: 06:$4M, 07:$13M, 08:$13M (someone asked)

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 3, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Greg Miclat not in consideration?

Just a thought. He’s been pretty solid so far; yes, I recognize his limited playing time represents a incredibly small sample, I’m just saying.

by Dr Orpheus on Nov 3, 2008 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He would arrive ST 2011

And I’d rather he come up as BRobs replacement. Miclat still needs to prove a lot at the plate, however.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 3, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And what of Hoes?

This may be my favorite comment yet.

by Dr Orpheus on Nov 3, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I mean

I like the kid A LOT, but he is fresh out of high school. I got a chance to see him when he was at St. John’s, and from everything that I’ve heard/seen/read, he is the real deal. He could easily turn out to be better than Avery, but both kids are still a long way away. Guys like Hoes are part of the reason I like Khalil Greene; Greene is still relatively young and could stick around for a while until the young guys develop.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 3, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

Guys like Hoes…

Truer words were never spoken.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Nov 4, 2008 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In my fantasy world...

Hoes puts out at such a prodigious rate that he’s through the minors and with the O’s after 3 years, at SS.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right

But I think a 2012 all-star break/September call up is just as likely.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Nov 3, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They might rush him just to sell Hoes jerseys

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 4, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Question

Do you think Hoes jerseys would sell well in various area codes?

I think so.

by Dr Orpheus on Nov 4, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i stole this but.... where are my hoes!

Zartan says, "Sign Dan Johnson."

by birdman on Nov 4, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be big in Frederick

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Nov 4, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Orlando Cabrera

Seems like all the suggestions I’ve been reading are too far out of the box. Move Roberts to SS? Sign a Japanese player? (okay, that one’s not out of the box so much as it’s out of the Orioles M.O.) Sign yet another all glove – no stick option or a hot/cold player like Felipe Lopez?

Orlando Cabrera can hit. He can field. We’d only need him for a few seasons. Sometimes stopgap players are a good thing.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Nov 3, 2008 7:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Orlando Cabrera can hit.

Ahhhh…hmm. Hmm. To each their own? He does slap the ball around OK and he’s certainly a huge upgrade on the boners we rotated this year, but I don’t know that I’d say “he can hit”? I’m not even arguing, I’m just trying to figure out what I’d say about Cabrera’s hitting abilities. “His hitting is not without some merit”? “If you like batting average, then this guy is sort of acceptable”?

I don’t know that I like Cabrera in the “stopgap” role — for one thing you have to pay him as if he’s truly desirable, because if you don’t, some other team will. That means he’s not really a “stopgap” — he’s just a free agent shortstop, the guy you signed to play shortstop for three years or whatever. He is going to be a little bit overpaid on reputation as a “sparkplug” and a “winner,” because he happened to play 58 games and the playoffs on a World Series champion in 2004 and has been on some winning teams in LA and Chicago since. It is odd that his can-do attitude never did much for Montreal.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Nov 3, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

good use of “boners”

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Nov 3, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

makes me think of always sunny

additional +1

“later boners”

by pipkin on Nov 4, 2008 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

for even mentioning Always Sunny. Amazing show on so many levels

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Nov 4, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

especially amazing on the most important level

the funny one

by pipkin on Nov 4, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

My favorite show the last few seasons. My wife and I make a point to watch it.

by blawk359 on Nov 5, 2008 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

IASIP

Im all boned up!

by milkman41 on Nov 6, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand

how you can ever say, under any circumstances, that neifi perez has had a good bat

career OPS+ of 64

by pipkin on Nov 4, 2008 12:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

well

according to MLBtraderumors.com, Khalil greene is getting interest from a number of teams, including the orioles, here’s the link http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/orioles-reds-ti.html

What up?

by snakethejake on Nov 4, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

in theory...

i’d like getting greene, but i get some fearsome, byrnesian “dudebro” vibes off him.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Nov 4, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Greene is one of the reasons I like watching the Padres

but I figure his price tag isn’t worth what he would give to us.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Nov 4, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i change of scenery might do him some good, you never know and i guess that defeats the purpose of having this whole discussion.

What up?

by snakethejake on Nov 5, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also under 'NO'

From Rosenthal at FoxSports™®:

Free-agent infielder David Eckstein is making it known that he wants to play second base next season. Though his sample size at second last season consisted of only 197 innings, Eckstein performed better at the position than he did at shortstop for the Blue Jays and Diamondbacks.

According to the plus-minus ratings on Bill James Online, Eckstein made two more plays at second than the average fielder at the position and 12 fewer plays than the average shortstop. …

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 4, 2008 11:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Eckstein may actually have a brain in his adorable little noggin

He’s been below-average at short for a while, and he probably realizes that he’s getting even worse, and wants to go somewhere he can be useful (and less challenged).

by pipkin on Nov 4, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying no to him moving to 2B

I’m saying no to him moving to BAL

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 4, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh i wasn't implying you were saying don't move him

I was just commenting.

keep him the hell away from my orioles. If he came here I think Jim Hunter would cream his pants.

by pipkin on Nov 4, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll bite...

he’s scrappy!!!

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Nov 4, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget the heart...

…and the fact that he’s the son of a teacher! He’s super smart and that’s why he wants to move to second base because he realized that he doesn’t have the arm for second base. [/mccarver]

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Nov 4, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Using

“super” as an adjective is “super” annoying.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Nov 5, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wait...

super isn’t an adjective?

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Nov 5, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just

personally think it is annoying. I can trace it back to this woman I know with an annyoning, high pitched voice that can insert it several times into the smallest of sentences. Nothing against dfa…just voicing my disdain for super.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Nov 5, 2008 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs