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O's offer Tex $180+ Million?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/teixeira-negoti.html

The Yankees' imminent signing of free-agent left-hander CC Sabathia to a seven-year, $160-million deal would seem to take them out of the running for Mark Teixeira, but that will hardly ease the competition the Angels face in retaining the free-agent first baseman.

According to a source from a team who is involved in negotiations, the Washington Nationals and Baltimore Orioles "are coming in hot" on Teixeira, with the Nationals apparently willing to offer the slugger a 10-year deal for more than $20 million a year and the Orioles willing to go nine years for at least $20 million a year.

The Boston Red Sox are also aggressively pursuing Teixeira. For more details, go to latimes.com.

-- Mike DiGiovanna

It's probably just chatter, but that's a pretty serious offer if true.  I like Tex a lot, but 9 years seems crazy to me.

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I agree

He’s pretty athletic for a first baseman, but still…that’s a lotta years and a lotta dough.

Also, if they lose out to the Nats on this I’ll probably shit a chicken.

by pipkin on Dec 10, 2008 4:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i know, haha

but seriously, the nats? gross.

I mean, if the only difference is that tenth year…is that really where you draw the line? really?

by pipkin on Dec 10, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In 10 years, $21M/year is going to be chump change

that I still wont’ be making

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It would break my heart

to see Tex sign with the Nats, and then decide to live in NOVA. That would be bullshit.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen

I’d rather see Tex renounce capitalism and live in a commune than see him make his home in NOVA. Imagine if he started wearing a Redskins jersey around in public. Barf.

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's hard for me to hate the 'Skins at the moment

after, you know, what happened last week.

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hey, i'm a skins fan

and I hate them. I bet I hate them more than most non-fans do. It’s what being a skins fan is all about.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet I hate them more...

but i’m a Giants fan. Then again, the skins are my least-hated team out of the other 3 in the east

"I’m sure glad he didn’t try to bunt." - DD on Melmo's game winning double, 6/17

by daveh873 on Dec 11, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jints

are my least-hated of the three. haha.

That’s how it usually goes. We just detest each other, as opposed to white-hot hatred.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I basically hate the entire east

with the Giants and Cowboys at the top. My hatred for the ’skins is a little less…

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah go skins!

RIGHT…..

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Life on a Kibbutz not for you?

But, yeah, screw the ’skeen’s

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 11, 2008 2:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tex will go

to whomever offers the most money. It’s really that simple. Unless Boras pushes him into BOS or NYY due to marketing concerns, which is a real possibility. The O’s may need to bid 5% or so over the next highest team if that team is LAA, NYY or BOS.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 6:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Question

Do we agree now that, if Tex signs to PHN, we boo him when he plays at OPACY? Or do we respect his decision?

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no boo

but no cheer, either

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d boo anyone who doesn’t have enough class to avoid signing with PHN or the MFY. A Marylander with that little class??? It’s a no brainer.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he ain't playin' for us

He gets booed. Goes double for anyone on TOR, BOS or NYY.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So you boo everyone?

You just go around booing every player on other teams? That seems like a lot of work.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If they don't play for the O's

Screw ‘em. Unless it’s the Dodgers, my back up team. And I have to be civil to the Cubs for in-laws reasons.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, let's boo

an extremely talented player who would rather go to the best run team in the MLB where he has a chance to win the World Series every year.

I know we stress the geographical importance all the time here, but does that even matter most of the time? I mean you hear about guys being from certain places and taking that into consideration, but does any fan base cling to the hometown boy comes home story like Orioles fans? It’s totally ridiculous.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The best-run team in the MLB?

Due respect, Stacey, that’s a hard position to quantify. A string of winning years because you buy a lot of players doesn’t mean you are the best-run team.

The Sox clearly have a great organization and an impressive farm system, but they also make mistakes like everyone else. They just have the money to cover those mistakes up.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok then

In my opinion, the best run team in the MLB. Yes, they spend a lot of money. But they’re not the Yankees. They make smart deals. They traded for Beckett and Lowell when no one else wanted to touch Mike Lowell. How did that work out? They refused to give Pedro Martinez and Johnny Damon the extra year they wanted, and they were right. They consistently have a farm system that seems to have a pretty high turnout of good players and they pay their players a lot, but unlike the Yankees they don’t hand out ridiculous contracts to free agents like they are going out of style. What FA’s have they gone after? JD Drew. Manny. I’d say that worked out. Ortiz they picked up for nothing. They traded for Beckett, Schilling. They did pay an arm and a leg for Dice-K, but you could argue that’s helped them more than with just him as it appears the Japanese pitcher they just signed took less to be on the Red Sox.

The Red Sox get lumped in the same category as the Yankees a lot because of their high payroll, but I think they are a lot smarter than that.

Who would you say is the best run team in the MLB?

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Unfortunately

+1

Its crazy how many of their draft picks pan out.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not lumping them in with the Yankees at all

It’s no comparison. The Yankees are not in a class with the Red Sox.

I’m just saying that because they can bury their mistakes, they get some passes.

Beckett is a perfect example. They signed him for $10M for three years. In one of those years he was great, in one of them he was average, and in one he was pretty damn bad. On a small-market team with lower payroll, fans are calling for the head of that GM. But the RS can absorb the mistake.

And again, to use your example, they paid an arm and a leg for Dice-K. $100M, to be precise. So far he has given them one mediocre season and one stellar season. If he’s this dominant for the next 6 years, it works out for them. If not, it’s really not a wise baseball decision, is it? The fact that you’re citing another player taking less to be on the RS as a result of this signing is immaterial, as we have no idea if that player will have success in the bigs.

They paid Manny $7M to go away this year. Was it the right decision? Jason Bay had a great postseason, but Manny’s was epic. In an ALCS that was decided by a hair’s breadth, would Manny have made the difference? A lot of speculation on this one at the time.

They paid Curt Schilling $8M to pitch for them in 2008. That didn’t really work out either. Is this just bad luck? Some of it certainly is. I could argue that he was hurt for a portion of 2007 and was 42, and it might be wishful thinking to think he was going to have another $8M year in him, but hindsight is 20-20.

On the plus side, they clearly have an incredible scouting and draft organization. Papelbon, Pedroia, Bucholz, and on and on. And they clearly will act in an effort to win rather than sit with a losing hand—I have to admire them for that.

At the end of the day, I don’t think there is one “best-run team” you can point to. The RS are certainly up there. But I’m a little more impressed with the smaller market teams (Oakland, Minnesota, etc) who seem to contend fairly regularly but have to do it with fewer resources and a smaller margin of error.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent points

You’re right money provides the ability to cover mistakes. Perhaps I overlook that because I’m the first to admit I’m jealous of the Red Sox and their organization. People can say what they want about their douchey fans and the overspending, but when you look at them in a vacuum they would be the best team to be a fan of overall. It’s no wonder why they have so many bandwagoners.

As far as Oakland, pfft. Everyone always calls Billy Beane a genius and he does make quite good deals. But for whatever reason he can’t build a team to go all the way. His teams are built to lose in the first round of the playoffs if they get there. I know the playoffs are somewhat of a crapshoot, but still. I’ve had Baseball Between the Numbers by the BP folks in my queue to read for a great number of months but haven’t been able to get around to it. One of the chapters, written by the genius that is Nate Silver, is titled, “Why doesn’t Billy Beane’s shit work in the playoffs?” Maybe one of these days I’ll get around to it and can speak more eloquently on the subject.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=betweenthenumbers/billybeane/060405

If Beane had money to burn, he’d be able to hold onto talent and buy it when necessary. Specifically, the kind of talent that increases the odds of winning championships.

by drj on Dec 11, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey that's the chapter

I’ve been putting off reading.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

two teams that impress me on how well they are run....

are the Twins and the Cardinals. The Twins seem to have winning seasons no matter who leaves. The Cardinals have had some pretty good seasons since about 2000, with the exception of 2007. They win a lot of games but don’t overspend.

I would agree the Red Sox are one of the best run teams in MLB. One tough bunch. However, I can’t wait till the O’s are that tough again.

"The main idea is to win"-John McGraw

by Orioles 1894 on Dec 11, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

It’s totally ridiculous and it really makes no logical sense why anyone would boo him.

But it also makes little sense why I care so much whether or not the Orioles suck. As a fan I reserve the right to do things that make no sense.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Which

is exactly why I brought up the question in the first place. I’m curious if others will feel slighted if Tex goes to Boston over coming home. Because Baltimore’s a small market, that’s why we get all warm and fuzzy over the hometown guy coming home.

I wonder why I pump my hard-earned money into a sport where a guy gets to scratch his chin over whether to take a $190M deal or a $200M deal. At that price, come home where (whether it’s logical or not) your hometown fans will freaking idolize you for a decade.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

-1

I don’t know. If it were me, I wouldn’t feel like I was obligated to go back to my hometown team. I think I would just becuase I love the Orioles, but it’s not realistic for me to expect everyone else to feel the same way. Teix will make his decision based on whatever he feels is important to him, which is reasonable. And if that takes him away from Baltimroe, then I’ll probably boo him a little which isn’t really reasonable, but too bad.

The weird thing is I don’t even want Teixera to come to Baltimore.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I can’t help that I drink tall glasses of Hater-ade. I may be crazy, but I would love to see Tex here, a nice addition to make a team competitive again. What ring would be sweeter than the one that has his hometown team on it, knowing he was key in bringing the trophy to our town?

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Money

Money is important to him. That’s fine. We all want more money, I can bet. But his ego would soar in this town.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I reserve the right

to boo ANYBODY who doesn’t play for the O’s.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

damn straight!

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 11, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And even some that DO

I was looking at YOU, JayPay.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont ever remember

Payton not hustling.

Or not swinging at a shoulder high fastball, but the man hustled and I would have him on my team if utilized properly (platoon against lefties, defense, pinch runner) signed for a 1 million not five and not blocking anyone.

I would boo the front office for his signing in the first place. One of the worst contracts we gave out.

by sanders833 on Dec 11, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's true, isn't it?

if you’re not very good at your job and someoned wants to pay several times what you’re worth, is it your fault for taking or their fault for offering? same goes for danys baez, jwb, etc.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 11, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said he did

I just didn’t like him.

You’re applying logic to a decision where it wasn’t applied originally.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ha!
You’re applying logic to a decision where it wasn’t applied originally.


I’m going to steal that and use it at work.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 11, 2008 9:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Feel free.

Or Freel, as the case may beel.

Wow, was that a bad pun.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We boo...

…anyone who plays for those fucking shitheads. Including if their name is Cal Ripken Jr. Brooks Robinson or Jesus H. Christ.

by Jonny Pops on Dec 11, 2008 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

what about...

jesus jones?

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 12, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right here, right now.....

I will confirm I haven’t thought about that group in AT LEAST 15 years.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 12, 2008 9:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

group?

i was talking about our centerfielder!

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 12, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Nats want to give him >$20M /year for 10 years

they can have him. That’s just ridiculous. Better he goes to them than the Red Sox anyway.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly

I mean, if you were to give me PA’s checkbook, I’d do it, but if I was the actual owner, I wouldn’t.

Especially in this economy.

Also, consider the source, the LA Times…talking about 2 east coast teams in a bidding war. I haven’t heard anything from any other source that convinces me of the truth of this.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

Could be B.S. PR put out by Camp Boras in order to drive up the bidding. That bid from the Nat sounds fishy. Robothal’s contacts are reporting that Tex prefers east coast teams for family reasons.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2008 4:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

tru dat

If the Angels outbid everyone by $60M, they’ll keep their man.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty well for CC

Considering he can supposedly opt out after 3 years and $69M.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Getting Tex would be great!!!

but the price is a bit steep. Sure would add some punch to the lineup….. :)

"The main idea is to win"-John McGraw

by Orioles 1894 on Dec 10, 2008 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Obligatory Rosterbation

Lets say the rest of the offseason is:
Sign Izturis for 2 yrs/$6MM
Sign Tex for 10 yrs/$200 MM
Sign Uehura for 2 yrs/$10 MM
Sign Zaun for 1 yr/$2MM
Trade Olson for Pie, Marquis and $5MM
Extend Markakis

C Wieters
1B Tex
2B Roberts
SS Izturis
3B Mora
LF Pie
CF Jones
RF Markakis
DH Scott
Bench Freel, Zaun, Reimold, Montanez

SP Guthrie
SP Uehura
SP Marquis
SP Cabrera
SP Albers
CL Sherrill
RP Ray
RP Johnson
RP Walker
RP Baez
RP Sarfate
RP Liz

That puts the payroll for 2009 at ~$100MM even. That’s a very good lineup, solid defense, a bad but somewhat improved rotation, and a below-average pen. Probably a 75-80 win team. This doesn’t get interesting until/if the minor league pitching comes through.

The payroll for 2010 would be $60MM after Huff, Roberts, Mora, Marquis, Baez, and Walker come off the books and accounting for arbitration raises.

I think it you get Tex, you also need to extend Roberts and make a push for 2010/2011.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 4:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Obligatory retort ;)

Zaun made $3.75M last year, so he would need more like $4M+

I seriously doubt we would get Pie, Marquis, and cash for Olson. This deal seems to be moving away from us, at least in the rumor mill.

Where does Huff fit into this?

I think the rotation will improve given defensive upgrades and increased experience, and the bullpen will improve given the return of Ray/Baez and the improvement of the rotation. Without Tex, 75 wins. With Tex, at least 81 ;)

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Retort retort

The Jays overpaid Zaun on a 2 year deal after a solid 2006 season. Outside of the last 2 years, Zaun has never made more than $1.2MM in a season, and he’s a 38-year old declining catcher. If he’s really demanding that kind of cash, then Quiroz (or another cheap vet) will do.

I completely forgot about Huff for a second (although I included his salary in the payroll). He would DH, Scott would play LF, and just forget the Olson-Pie trade.

I still like the idea of getting Marquis on a salary dump assuming the O’s don’t give up significant talent (which is reportedly A-OK with the Cubs).

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

x3

MLBPA says you have to pay at least 80% of the previous years salary. They also say there is no such thing as a cheap veteran. And I think it’s worth it for the experience, if he’s really willing to play coach for the pitching staff and Wieters, which it sounds like he is.

I’m not sold on Marquis. I’d just as soon keep Olson and give him another year ala DCabs. Who we should send him away for minor leagers.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That 80% only applies to players in arbitration. Free agents can sign for any amount. Chan Ho Park made $15MM in 2006 and the major league minimum in 2007.

I like Marquis on a 1 year deal as a guy to soak up some innings and provide depth so we can avoid rushing Tillman, Arrieta, and Matusz. That has value even if Olson is kept.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Luke Scott, right fielder

I don’t know, I’m warming to the idea of trading Scott for prospects. The Cubs are looking for a left-handed right fielder and Scott fills that role quite nicely. As I mentioned before, the Cubs have quite a few shortstop prospects and the Phillies have Jason Donald. Who knows? If the Orioles are part of the Peavy deal, I wouldn’t mind MacPhail trading Olson and Scott for Pie, Marquis and a 5-10, on BA or otherwise’s list, prospect.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe I'm not thinking straight

But I would pay whatever it takes. We can’t have him go to Boston. He is the best (non superhuman Pujols division) 1st baseman in baseball. He is going to have a slow decline, and we can probably expect him to maintain his current production for the next 4-6 years. We have no real 1st base types in the pipeline other than Rowell (who is a huge question mark and pretty far away even if he pans out), and Snyder, who doesn’t really have the bat for 1st.

Imagine a 1-5 of Roberts, Markakis, Tex, Wieters, and Adam Jones, that is absolutely a championship core.

I think this is a position where overpaying is pretty acceptable.

In addition, we have been so weak at first, that Tex is an automatic 5-7 win upgrade, Tex + Izturis + Wieters replacing Ramon takes this team from an ExWl of 72-90 to probably what is essentially an ExWL of…83-79 (figure Tex worth 9 wins to Millars 2.5, Izturis a 2 win upgrade over last years collection of corpses, and Wieters worth 5.5 wins to Ramon’s 2.5).

This doesn’t take into account expected increased production from Adam Jones (lets say an extra 2 wins there).

85 wins is no real goal, but its a much more solid foundation. Then in 2010, if one of our big 4 prospects pans out, and we get something from one other, we are very genuinely looking at a 90 win team.

This is obviously very random, but That 90 win team is only an 84 win team in 2010 without Tex, a 90 win team can luck into 95 wins, an 84 win team can’t.

I see two scenarios, one, we are never good enough to get past the rest of the division and who cares what we spend on anything.
Two, We are just good enough to make a couple of playoffs between 2010 and 2014, and Texiera is a difference maker.

always pay top dollar for top talent, stay out of the middle.

by ItsBenFeldman on Dec 10, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Huff won't produce at 2008 levels

But that’s a pretty nice 1-6

1. Roberts
2. Jones
3. Markakis
4. Teixeira
5. Huff
6. Wieters
7. Scott
8. Mora
9. Izturis

That would be a MLB lineup for a change. And I’d like a lineup where Mora is our 8th place hitter. Too bad we have exactly ONE starting pitcher…

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 10, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine just how many fat pitches Nick would get

hitting in front of Tex.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine just how many phat bitches Nick would get

just picking from Tex’s leftovers.

Or would it be the other way around? Regardless, they’d make great wingmen.

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nick's the looker

Tex has the cash.

potent combo.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 1:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Your last sentence

is what has been plaguing the O’s for the last 11 years, except for Belle (who knew he’d get hurt?).

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 10, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

105.7FM in Baltimore

is reporting this offer is on the table. Waiting for someone else to verify, they’re rarely the first to break news when it comes to the O’s…

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Dec 10, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No confirmation from Roch

http://masnsports.com/2008/12/the-teixeira-rumor.html

I know everyone is spinning in circles over the Los Angeles Times report that the Orioles are “possibly willing to go nine years for at least $20 million a year.”

Read that closely: “Possibly willing.” That doesn’t sound concrete to me.

The story is sourced, as so many of them are here, which is fine. But those possible figures aren’t coming from the Orioles.

But no denial, either.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Surprisingly,

I agree with Roch. My groin is prepping for a kicking however.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2008 6:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yanno

I checked over at Federal Baseball to see what the fan were saying, and there weren’t any.

Do you think Tex is gonna sign for a 100 loss team?

This is all cooked up by the Boras BS machine.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect its all cooked up....

I can’t imagine Washington spending that type of money….

"The main idea is to win"-John McGraw

by Orioles 1894 on Dec 10, 2008 7:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I can.

Jim Bowden is not very bright or good with money, hence his extending Dmitri Young not long before he got sent off to Syracuse.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

12 million or whatever for DaMeat Hook

is a lot different than 200 mil. for Tex. We’re talking the Lerners, here.

by pipkin on Dec 10, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that is true.

But Bowden is still an idiot.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tex numbers at the end will be huge

I am going 9 at 22 with rounding to get 200 which Boras can say is better then the 10/200 even he first thought about.

I guess if Tex wanted to take a chance on say Balt or Wash he could try for an opt out as well after three years. It could very well be that the Nats or O"s might push the envelope on this one, would Tex bite?

I cant think of many contracts like this that have aged well. I mean Arod’s first deal (with an opt out-forgot about that one already) held up from a production level. You can argue about Jeter’s deal. Manny’s deal held up. Pujols first deal looks like a steal. I think Miquel Cabrera will hold up.

Still most look bad very quickly. Toronto would love to move Wells. Probably wish already they hadnt signed Rios. Todd Helton’s deal (for a 1b with back and knee problems no less) looks like a monster albatross. Vladdie’s deal is just barely holding up because of his knee. Giambi’s deal went south, Travis Hafner’s deal has crushed Cle (something about DH’s), Eric Chavez has really hurt Oakland, MIchael Young’s deal has looked bad from the moment he signed.

I think Tex will hold up for five years but you are talking about 22% of your payroll for a 100 million payroll team.

I think the reality is this team doesnt make a serious push until 2011. I think I would have to pass on Tex if the window is that big to we even begin to compete. If the Yanks want to go all in on Tex, CC and AJ even they will have to hold payroll at some point. Which means the Orioles should have even more money to spend next offseason. Yeah, I know Tex wont be there. But as I look at this like the bean counter that I am its really hard to see a deal like this happening in every aspect.

by sanders833 on Dec 10, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just a heads up, a lot of info here

I know it’s the Hangout, but it’s definitely the most active spot at the moment: http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72230&page=130

and yes, that’s 130 page thread.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Dec 10, 2008 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

why do people post on that site?

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 10, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I"m not sure I'd call that "info"

More like rampant speculation and bored people getting revved up for no reason.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I looked at the site

and some dork posted a picture of Spock.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 10, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, Spock rules

The guys at Lookout Landing, one of the most informed and literate SBN community, love Star Trek. So go screw.

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

is there a locker I can push you into somewhere?

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll put it out there

I’m pretty stoked for the new Star Trek movie.

by blawk359 on Dec 12, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

It looks badass.

Also, does no one recognize my avatar as Worf playing for the Pike City Pioneers? :(

by PhilR8 on Dec 12, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

I had never clicked on your profile to see the full-size pic…..I figured it was ManRam. That’s pretty bad. But I’ve had a few vodka and Red Bulls, so I’m not ashamed to admit that I thought Man Ram was a Klingon.

by blawk359 on Dec 12, 2008 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is info

Sun just posted a new article.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles1210,0,3105554.story

The Orioles have apparently made it to the final four of the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes, though it remains to be seen whether they’ll be able to offer enough money to lure the free-agent slugging first baseman back home.

However, the club has made a strong bid, offering a seven-year contract for between $140 million and $150 million, one industry source said.
However, as of last night, the Orioles hadn’t gone as far as eight guaranteed years, according to an industry source. MacPhail said he has been keeping owner Peter Angelos abreast of the negotiations. Angelos has been long enamored with the first baseman, but, according to the source, he is against offering Teixeira a 10-year, $200 million contract, which is what the player and his agent had originally been seeking.

“Suffice to say, I keep him apprised of where we are,” MacPhail said. “I don’t go anywhere without his prior approval. We talk about it on a daily basis. Of course, he’s involved. We wouldn’t be one of the four clubs left standing if he wasn’t a sincerely interested party.”
MacPhail said there is no deadline on his offer, but the club certainly would like to know of Teixeira’s plans sooner rather than later.

“I don’t think it’s so much bidding,” MacPhail said. “You just don’t want to get a sizable chunk of what you can do so tied up in one deal that other ones slip by. That’s the only thing that we have to factor in. That’s the only restraint. I’ve never been a huge deadline guy, but I do think they’re aware that we don’t want to have nothing happen and lose an opportunity to have something else slide by.”

MacPhail acknowledged the Orioles are “handicapped” if the most important factor for Teixeira was winning immediately.

I still think Tex is going to the Red Sox.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tex as a Red Suck would literally break my heart

Can you imagine Tex at the Yard wearing a pink hat? With all of PHN cheering his name? Oh my god I’m having an anxiety attack pills now

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

its gonna happen

and i’m really surprised the yankees aren’t in on him

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I will say

that if I had Tex’s talent, I’d want to play for a competent organization that was throwing a ton of cash my way, too. It’s one thing to be a fan; it’s another thing to be employed by a great organization that has a history of success and treating its players right.

Well, a recent history, anyway.

by PhilR8 on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

plus

If I’m Tex, yeah, being an O’s fan growing up is great…but being a money fan growing up is pretty sweet too.

I mean, we all talk about following our hearts if we were in these guys’ positions, but these guys are probably mostly like us. They want that money. If I was in CC’s or Tex’s place I’d probably take teh cash, too.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 1:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

love or money...

it’s tough…there’s definitely a lot of ways the o’s could tinker w/ the contract to make it more attractive if they can’t give him red sock money. years, opt out, limited no trade…do you really think theo epstein is going to give a dude 8-10 years? that seems to me to be not the way he works.

that being said, the attraction of being credited as the savior of the team you rooted for as a kid has got to be at least something of a draw compared to the instant gratification of almost certain playoff contention. seriously, though, a core of markakis, the doc, wieters and tex? that’s really kind of scary.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 11, 2008 9:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm torn!!!

I haven’t been big on Tex this off-season because of the high price tag, long term commitment, and possibility of him leaving his peak just as the rest of the team is shaping up.

But now that we’re so close, I can’t help but be a little excited. A 1-3 of Roberts, Nick, and Tex might be the best top of the lineup in baseball. And I don’t want to see him go to the Nats or the Sox, his two most likely destinations.

The interesting thing to watch here is Epstein. As higgins says, tying up guys for 10 years doesn’t seem to be the way he works. On the other hand, with Sabathia, Cameron, and more upgrades to come, the Yanks look to be rebounding big this year. Tampa isn’t going anywhere. And Theo has plenty of cash to play around with. My money is on the Sox doing whatever it takes to get him. Tex will want to come here or Washington, but he’ll get an extra 10 or 20 mil to head to Beantown.

by silverstadium on Dec 11, 2008 10:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think it's the oppostie

BOS will get TEx even though they are $10-$20 M LESS than what the Nats or O’s offer.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in retrospect

I am glad we didn’t get Vlad

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's true, too

How “can’t miss” did THAT contract look at the time? Just what, 2 short years ago?

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what

The Angels have more than gotten their money’s worth from Vlad.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not counting last season

Yes, but his 2008 was awful — declines in hits, 2B, HR, BB, average, OBP, and SLG and K’s were way out

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"way up"

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right

Vlad is probably on the way out, but he’s still got some juice left.

Probably time to DH the guy, though.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For that type of money

Yes, awful.

If I am giving out that type of cash to someone, I need amazing numbers every year

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well that's nice in fantasyland

but in the real world, 15.5 million for a 130 OPS+, on top of four MVP quality years and a bunch of playoff appearances is a great goddamn deal. Especially when you’re paying Torii Hunter even MORE because the FA market shifted back up a couple years after you signed Vlad. I do hope the Orioles share your absurd standards though.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 11, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And for the record

Vlad’s VORP (40.5) puts him second in the AL among RF, behind Nick Markakis at 47.5. If Vlad’s season was “awful,” you would certainly balk at the O’s offering Markakis a similar deal when he reaches free agency, I’m sure.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 11, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think any O's fan who says

Vlad isn’t worth the deal he took with the Angels has got a case of sour grapes.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's check back in 10 months

and see if that applies.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, and how long is Vlad's contract for?

As each season goes on, this contract will look worse and worse. He’s declining.

They’re good numbers, but I would expect more across the board.

And yes, I am sure I do have sour grapes, but so what? My team has been awful for years and I am tired of it. Being a fan isn’t always about being rational.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 11, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, and how long is Vlad’s contract for?

Angels had an option for ‘09 which was exercised. He’s a free agent after next season.

I do hope the Orioles share your absurd standards though.
Well that’s nice in fantasyland

Geez, I didn’t agree with exitfare either but there’s no reason to be a condescending dick about it.

by birdman on Dec 11, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What do you expect from a guy that's "Awesome"?

When you have to constantly point something out about yourself, rarely is it ever true.

“BUT OMFG, IT’S THE INTERNETZ, I AM BEING FUNNY” – AWEZME MYKE AWEZOME

But no one’s laughing

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

“If you don’t know a Michael Scott, it’s because you are a Michael Scott.” Steve Carell.

AMA is sort of like the Michael Scott of CC. Offensive, but unaware… or maybe very aware but likes being offensive.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I'm very aware

He was (is) being retarded and I (very mildly) addressed his dumbass concerns, at which point you chose to mount your high horse and tell me how gosh darn rude I am. Hooray!

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 12, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just calling it like i see it brother.

I just find it interesting that you consciously and purposively choose to be offensive. Didn’t mean to hop on da high horse.

by birdman on Dec 12, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because they have dumbass opinions?

Okay. He’s still wrong and a dumbass. For now you can wait until the next time I say something and tell me how gosh darn rude it is, because you really have a boner for that. I’ll try to have something ready for Christmas.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 12, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and i forgot

this MAY explain why people want to punch you in the face!

by birdman on Dec 12, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, I thought the contact was for longer

I do stand by my original statement though — he is declining, and will continue going down

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So is just about every other player

His contract was great; the fact that he will not be any good three or four years AFTER it expires is rather irrelevant.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 12, 2008 11:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if

he misses every game this season with a torn taint, his contract will STILL have been a great one. If you would expect more, the team who hires you as GM would never sign a free agent.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on Dec 11, 2008 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vlad is a HOFer

I would have loved to have him. He’s in decline now but his huge contract worked out fine.

by birdman on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

But notice the Angels arent talking extension either. I thought the last couple of years that Vladdie was getting even worse in his “pitch selection”. He seemed to be getting himself our more and more. I wonder if his bat speed was going and he was guessing even more?

However, I also noticed he seemed much more patient once Tex got there, even willing to take walks. So I think Vlad will miss Tex if he doesnt come back. Manny and Vlad would be an interesting combo and maybe even add Dunn although it sounds like Ibanez is the back up plan.

by sanders833 on Dec 11, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've never been big on getting Tex

   I don’t think that the Nats will get him, but if they do, it would be a huge win for the Orioles. First, it keeps the Yanks and Sox from getting him. Second it keeps Angelos from making a huge mistake in locking up long term money and a draft pick on Teix.

And also remember the Orioles get something like 80% of the Nat’s TV revenue. I don’t think that Teixeira alone is going to suddenly turn the Nats into a huge draw, but I don’t think it could hurt. And that’s more money for us.

But it’s all wishful thinking, Nats aren’t getting him.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 11:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

that...

is a novel perspective. i really wouldn’t have thought of that.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 11, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot about the MASN revenues

Yeah, keeping him out of NYBos is enough reason to root for the Nats, but that definitely puts it over the top. Word is that the Yanks are back in the Tex game, they are the leader for Burnett, and they still might take Lowe. I guess the days of buying yourself a pennant may be back.

by silverstadium on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt that report

Newsday (a newspaper, not a blog!) reported yesterday that the Yankees are all but out of it. I think this is just Boras trying to goose the Sox into upping their offer.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

80% of nothing is nothing

Although that would probably increase with a big signing like Tex. However, when they go from losing 100 games to losing 90, it’ll still be nothing.

You have to think that PA doesn’t feel as threatened by the gnats. But if he’s so obsessed with him as they say, I would think he would want control and not just TV rights.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Boras

I can see Tex going to Washington if Boras scams them into offering him a ridiculous Arod like contract. Arod went to a bad team because they paid atleast 25% more than his market value. Tex would do the same. That being said, Washington will still be bad with him. Bowden is an idiot and will never be able to build a good team. At some point, in the next couple of years, Washington’s ownership would be sick of being saddled with a $25 million dollar player on a 70 win team. Then the O’s could pick him up via trade and could get DC to pick up some of his salary.

by uneasy rider on Dec 11, 2008 11:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We may truly be in this thing

From mlb.com:

The Orioles do know where Texieria stands, though, thanks to a face-to-face meeting between the first baseman, agent Scott Boras and MacPhail late last week.

Teixeira, a native of Baltimore suburb Severna Park, Md., apparently spent most of the tete-a-tete grilling MacPhail about the future of the organization, and the executive said one thing he didn’t have to do was sell him on Baltimore.

“That’s one thing, in this particular case, that really wasn’t [part of it],” he said. “What we had a right to understand — and what we have an obligation to tell him — is where we are as an organization, what we’re trying to do, how we’re going to try to do it [and] how much progress we’ve made in the last year-and-a-half in that regard.”

And I bet Andy’s a good salesman. If Teix is considering Charm City at all, he must have some flexibility for waiting to win. Andy can point to Markakis, Jones, Roberts, Weiters and Teix as an intiidating core of players, then show off all the arms that are two years away. That, plus living in the town you want to live in, plus a high-end offer, might make it happen.

Rumored offers, as of yesterday:

Red Sox (rumored offer — Unknown): While Teixeira is seeking a 10-year deal, all indications point to the Red Sox being more comfortable with something in the 6-8 year range. The Herald’s Sean McAdam reported today that, according to a source with knowledge of situation, the Sox were struggling with the idea of offering Teixeira an eight-year contract. SI.com’s Jon Heyman doesn’t think the Red Sox are currently the high bidder for Teixeira, though he still considers them the favorites. The Globe’s Amalie Benjamin brought up an interesting point about opt-out clauses, which the Sox don’t seem to be open to. From Benjamin: “One piece that might not be part of a Mark Teixeira deal for the Sox would be an opt-out clause. Though it seems to be the hot item in recent deals, [Theo] Epstein didn’t mince words in describing his distaste for such clauses. The Sox also have a policy against no-trades in contracts. ’We’d be strongly opposed to it,’ he said.”

Angels (rumored offer — Unknown): SI.com’s Jon Heyman reported that the Angels intend to set a limit and stick to that limit, which he believes to be around $160 million. “Scott knows where we stand,” Angels general manager Tony Reagins told the LA Times. “We have a level of salary and years that we’re comfortable with, and hopefully that will get it done. . . . If it doesn’t, we’ll have to move on.”

Nationals (rumored offer: eight years, $160 million-$180 million): SI.com’s Jon Heyman believes the Nats would be willing to go as high as 10 years, $200 million, which is the bar Boras set earlier this offseason.

Orioles (rumored offer: seven years, $140 million-$150 million): Orioles president Andy McPhail told the Baltimore Sun he is against offering Teixeira 10 years and $200 million.

If the bidding goes up appreciably, we’ll probably be out of it….But I don’t think Teixeira would play for the Sox for a discount, and I don’t think he’d sign with the Nats when they show no way to win for years on paper.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So now the question is...

Has Angelos authorized MacPhail to offer just enough to put us in the game but not win? Or is he serious? Because I would think that if the only difference is $10 mil, that Angelos would have to get it done.

Again, I’ve been against this deal since the beginning but the closer we get, the more excited I become.

by silverstadium on Dec 11, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I still think it's all about the money

Biggest contract gets him, and I think that’s going to be the Red Sox.

by dkdc on Dec 11, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

“What’s important” to him is $$$. A championship is second.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

eh

if you’re looking at 8 years and $180M or so, it may become about something other than money.

Consider this: $10M is about 5.5% of that overall contract. To put it in perspective, I don’t know what you do for a living, but if you make $60,000 this year, and you had two job offers—one in your hometown for $70,000 and one in a shitty town you didn’t like for $74,000, would you automatically take the higher-paying job?

It depends on how much you like your hometown, how much you dislike the other town, and which company you think is going to do better in future years.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand

In an earlier comment I said the money had to fall off the equation at some point. He’s already said he wants to be close to his home in Severna Park, so location is a big deal, but he’s still entertaining offers in Boston, NYY, etc. Which is why I feel like it’s $$, championship, then location.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you can compare this decision to a normal person's life.

A star baseball player goes through essentially three stages of his career: pre-free agency indentured servitude, the BIG ONE, and the wind-down.

Teixeira just finished up stage 1. He’s been paid well so far, but this next contract he signs is the BIG ONE. This is the one that makes him fabulously wealthy so that he never has to work again if he doesn’t want to. He can guarantee a life of security for his family and children and even his friends if he wants to. He can invest in businesses and travel the world to pass the time.

If he’s still able to pay baseball after this contract expires, he’ll already have the BIG ONE in the bank, and maybe he’ll start to look at some quality of life factors. The stakes aren’t as high, so maybe he’ll take a little less to live near his family. But almost every player who has been in the position to take the BIG ONE has signed with whoever offered the most money.

On the other hand, I think the argument that Tex will sign with the Red Sox because they offer the best chance to compete is just as silly.

11 players have ever signed at least a $100MM contract with a new team: Sabathia, Giambi, A-Rod, Manny, Soriano, Zito, Hampton, Beltran, Griffey, Brown, and Carlos Lee.

Exactly one of those players signed with a team that made the playoffs the previous season.

by dkdc on Dec 11, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But

$170 vs $200 million? When you’ve got that much, who’s counting? Quality of life will never be an issue for this guy or his family even before he signs this contract. Yeah, he’s gotta give Boras his cut, yeah, taxes are a B, but jeez, my salary is somewhere in the vicinity of 0.0001% of his, and I’d take a cut to be close to home. It just boggles the mind that we’re willing to pay an entertainer this kind of money, but not a teacher. And this is coming from someone who hated school but loves baseball.

I’m not a Tex fanboy. I’ll be fine with or without him, but I am a little put off by his even considering Boston, growing up an Os fan. Sure, once you’re in the biz it changes everything, and I’ll never know what it’s like to be in his shoes. But I’m a fan, and I’m allowed to complain and be unreasonable.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

there are like 800 ML baseball players

Most of whom don’t make close to this much money.

There are hundreds of thousands of teachers. Spurious comparison.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not even the point.

I was just on a side rant about paying too much money for entertainment. Good luck to us all buying tickets if we were to make two signings like this. The point I would make is that money is great, but when you’re talking hundreds of millions, what’s 15-20 off the top?

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe they've already set ticket prices for next year

but by all means, if you’re unsatisfied with the product the Orioles are selling and the price they’re charging for it, spend your entertainment dollars elsewhere. Lord knows enough of us have.

The players are paid what they are because the teams, who are owned by billionaires, make enough money to pay them that.

I often have the same thoughts about money like that, but I’ve never been in a position to maximize my earnings in that manner. I bet I’d be wooed by the money, too.

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again

No real increase next year, but give a guy over $150 million, and see if tix hit MFY-level (or dare I say it, hockey) prices in 3-4 years. I would like to be able to take my kids to games someday.

My original comment was b/c I was curious about the CC sentiment if Tex went to Boston. If he’s going to be in the AL and not on the Os, I would rather not have to face him upwards of 20 times a year.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Shoot me

But Roch just said this: “”http://masnsports.com/2008/12/will-tex-spurn-his-hometown-te.html" >I never thought I’d see the day the O’s would offer someone 150 million dollars. No one is worth that. But that is the price you have to pay in the game in 2009.

Tex would become a hero and almost an Orioles icon the minute he signs a deal with Baltimore. If he goes to Boston, it will probably be ugly for him whenever he returns to his hometown."

And that’s pretty much what I’m thinking. What’s a few mil when you can play for your childhood team (that does, arguably, have a chance of contending during the life of his contract) and become an instant icon in this town? To some degree, I think the infamy is worth as much or more than the green stuff. He could have a loooooong post-baseball career in Baltimore if he plans ahead.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree

but I’m not a big shot ballplayer. I would think, I’ve got money in the bank but I want to be on a winning team. Thus, the Tex/AM discussion. He’s trying to ascertain that the team is committed to building a winner.

Being in an area where I want to be is important. I turned down $10k/year to not move to Houston. But I’m not everyone.

I would also take 7/140 over 8/160 over 10/200, but I’m better at math than most.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Step increase

Wait, no step increase? What about inflation? Staples like bread and milk get more expensive every year.

by blawk359 on Dec 11, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming 10% increase/year

7/140 = 14.750, 16.225, 17.848, 19.632, 21.595, 23.755, 26.131
8/160 = 14.000, 15.400, 16.940, 18.634, 20.497, 22.547, 24.802, 27.282
10/200 = 12.500, 13.750, 15.125, 16.638, 18.301, 20.131, 22.145, 24.359, 26.795, 29.474

They all average $20M/year, but the shorter contracts pay better up front.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Dunn?

From a pure baseball standpoint, he’s about the same age, phenomenal OBP and slugging. Maybe not good defensively, but we’d get a legitimate middle of the lineup guy that will be productive for just as long as Tex without the unfathomable contract…
1)Roberts
2)Markakis
3)Weiters
4)Dunn
5)Huff
6)Jones
7)Scott
Looks awfully good too in 2010/2011, and it would free up a ton of money to go after some competent pitchers.

by HolyOs on Dec 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm on board.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Only if Tex goes to a competitor

I see Dunn as a poor man’s Tex…no defense or plate discipline. But we do need the big bat.

OTOH, since we’re all about defense right now, I’d hate to see our ham handed 1B drop the throws that Izturis busted his ass to field.

Roberts
Jones
Markakis
Dunn
Wieters
Huff
Scott
etc.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No plate discipline?

I’m assuming you’re basing that on his strikeouts. But check out his walks before you make such a declaration. Because of them his OBP is like 150 points higher than his AVG.

Dunn is no Teixeira. But he’s built for the AL. I’d love to have him.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 11, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're correct

I made the same mistake yesterday too. Too much going on.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, but

A poor man’s Tex is pretty damn good. Plus, he’d only have to play the field for maybe a year or two (while we rebuild) before Huff get’s too old to even play DH, his contract runs out, or we manage to trade him. Then we could move Dunn to DH and with Huff’s contract gone after 2 years we could spend the money on a solid all around 1st baseman or pitching (if somehow rowell or snyder develop better than expected). The OBP and slugging would be so valuable in the middle of the lineup to build around with the young talent of Markakis, Jones, and Weiters developing

by HolyOs on Dec 11, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No reason that Huff can’t play first right now. And I’d take his glove over Dunn’s.

It’s first friggin base, Huff can handle it.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Huff isn't that old

And if he hits like he did last year, he should be offered an extension.

Click around here for comparisons between Tex/Dunn/Huff

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 11, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now the Yanks have a deal on the table with AJ Burnett. Thats the only thing that I have against the Yanks. There is no damn way that revenue sharing is fair in MLB if Steinbrenner is able to sign who ever he deems possible.

by Misterwookas on Dec 11, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

revenue sharing is a lame compromise.

until MLB has a salary cap, the disparities will continue.

by zknower on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rev sharing won't solve it

A HARD salary cap (like the NFL) would.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rev sharing would work

if the small market owners were forced to put the $$$ on the field & not in their pockets

Hard cap? What country you think this is? N. Korea? Cuba? The one thing I think I hate more than anything else about sports is a “stop me before I spend again!” owner who demands a hard cap.

Reminds me of the classic movie Becket, a scene where Becket & King Henry are hunting in the forest & get caught in a rain storm, so they help themselves to the nearest cottage…

Henry: I’m cold. Get a fire started!

Becket: You’ll find no wood in this house.
 
Henry: No wood? In the middle of a forest?

Becket: These people are entitled to two measures of dead wood per year. One branch more and they hang.

Henry: My edict?

Becket: Your edict.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 11, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sport is a different animal

The MFY or PHN are dependent on their competitors in a way that other businesses are not. Sure, we see drug stores clustered on corners now, but Walgreens would do much better if RiteAid didn’t exist. Ask Apple how happy they would be if Microsoft suddenly disappeared.

But without the other teams in MLB, MFY and PHN have no one to play, or at least have fewer, more competitive options. So, it’s in their best interest the rest of the league does well, also.

You can’t argue that a hard cap has been detrimental to the NFL, and its model has included free agency for quite some time.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A few points

Paring all 4 leagues from 30-32 teams to 24, 20, may be even 16 to get a lot of the dead wood off the field/ice/court is something at least worthy of serious discussion. And yes, I’m well aware that my beloved Islanders would be among the 1st to go. (:-(

Now about the NFL, in terms of TV & merchandising numbers there’s nothing wrong going on in the NFL. But look a little deeper. It seems to me all the cap has done is create a league full of mediocrity and one-season-wonders. I suppose the Pats are the closest thing to a “dynasty” the post-cap NFL has. However, to refer to them as such cheapens the memory of the 60s Packers, 70s Steelers & 80s 49ers. THOSE were dynasties. Instead what you get are champions like the Giants, who were so lightly regarded that in Aug. most people had them down for 3rd place and 8-8. OK, they’re proving people wrong, but still, when have you seen a WS champion so disrespected by the “experts” the following March?

And why does the late season Sun. night prime time game have to keep shifting from week to week? It’s because the schedule makers don’t have a hint of a trace of an idea who’s going to be any good the next year! It’s not a case of not knowing whether a given team will be 14-2 or 11-5, they don’t know if a team will be 14-2 or 2-14.

It’s not so much that a hard cap prevents teams from spending wildly but that it prevents them from developing from within. Look at the Chargers. Years ago they would have been able to keep Brees around until they were sure Rivers was ready to be a consistent winner. Now? Not so much.

And finally, does it really help the bottom feeders of the league? There are teams that haven’t put a quality product on the field since George the Smarter was in the White House (sorry, SC). Which proves that artificial gimmicks can turn success into failure, but not the other way round.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 11, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Both Roch and Schmuck are talking

as though the Os are out, made their ‘best’ offer and have no chance, like Tex to the Red Sox is a done deal.

Now, both of them are idiots. But honestly, did the Os do it again? They MUST know that 7/140 wouldn’t get it done. Was this really just a pony show so they could say to the fans “we tried?” If the Os have the best offer and he doesn’t take it, fine, I get it…but if their offer is in last place financially (it appears to be) what the hell do they expect? The hometown discount was getting in the door to negotiate.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 11, 2008 6:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I actually thought

per season salary the O’s were there if you use the 150 number that is about 21.5 which beats out Miguel Cabrera if I remember my numbers. Now the O’s are going to have to go another year at least and I think its going to take 9 at 200 for the O’s to win but maybe eight will do it if its the best offer. Tex reminds me of a mercenary type when its comes to dollars.

by sanders833 on Dec 11, 2008 7:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tex

Unfortunately, there is no way that Tex will sign with us. The local connection means little because Boston is so close. If he wants to come home to visit the folks, he can hop on a plane at Logan and be here in an hour. Moreover, consider the plusses of playing with the Sox. In Boston, he will always play with a contender. The Boston FO and organization are first class. Fenway is always sold out. The Sox farm system, unlike ours, is packed with prospects. It’s like a kid who is admitted to Harvard and a local college. He may have ties to the local college, and he may have friends there, but he is going to Harvard. The O’s may be on the right track under Andy, but they are still a deeply damaged franchise. Tex knows that.

by BaltoBen on Dec 11, 2008 7:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

You ever fly out of Logan?

You don’t even get to the runway in an hour, let alone Baltimore. That airport is brutal.

Not saying that that is going to have an impact on Tex.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 8:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

logan stinks

Impossible to get to by mass transit, too (though not as bad as the two Queens airports).

by pipkin on Dec 11, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Logan does stink

but I was able to get there by mass transit all the time…granted, I lived in Boston in 2001-2003, so that may have changed, I dunno.

I do know I was always going there to fly Airtran back to Baltimore which made the T ride the cleaner, safer, more enjoyable experience. I always expected Airtran to chain me to an oar and throw me some hardtack.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 11, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hated Logan when I lived there from 1999-2003, but they’ve also massively improved the Logan situation since then. The T station is brand new (it even has escalators!) and the shuttle system works fine. There is also a bus shuttle that runs down town in its own tunnel so it isn’t bothered by traffic.

by dkdc on Dec 11, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, as someone who lived there for 3 years

It is pretty easy to get there by subway, and then a shuttle bus.

Although I always took a cab because I didn’t want to deal with carrying my bags on the train.

Also, there was never a time I wasn’t delayed at Logan — the runaway hang out over the water and it is always windy.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 12, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

I’m not sure that their farm system is any better than ours right now. Who do they really have that is ranked that highly? Lars Anderson (which kind of makes the run at Tex a little curious).

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 11, 2008 8:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Their farm system...

Is definitely worse than the O’s right now. It’s deeper, but it doesn’t have the impact talent the O’s have.

by dkdc on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I was hoping Tex would

just take the best financial offer.

Now Keith Law today said he thought the Angels would go 7 at 175. I dont know about that but I am not sure the Yanks or Boston would even go there.

For that 25 million you could probably get close to signing Dunn, Ibanez and Furcal if you were the Angels. And still have 85 million not committed in long term deals and use Kendry Morales to play first.

Still if Tex signs with the Angels that would probably make the Yanks and Boston happy, Peter Angelos happy and the Nationals could go wreck their franchise (wreck it further?) by committing huge money to Manny Ramirez, like 25 million at four years.

by sanders833 on Dec 11, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Boras wiretapped talking about Tex....

“I’ve got this thing and it’s fucking golden, and I’m not gonna give it away for fucking nothing. I’m not gonna do it.”

by Jonny Pops on Dec 11, 2008 9:23 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

+1

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 11, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

btw, sort of on the topic...

phils sign ibanez at 3/30? are you fucking kidding me? thanks a lot, assholes.

…i really don’t get why ibanez was such a hot property, yet dunn is kryptonite.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 12, 2008 10:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yeah its weird

dunn is younger, better, and they both can’t field

by pipkin on Dec 12, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn is a victim

somewhat of stereotypes. I mean think about the folks on this board who posted about Jack Cust. Especially the moment when he had his infamous base running episode. You can slip Dunn right into that picture. Even JP Richnot, GM of Toronto, a Beane disciple, had not one good word to say about Dunn who he should be drooling about. Another factor, batting avg, still draws more attention then OBP. Ibanez isnt a good outfielder, I dont know the numbers but the perception (and probably reality) is Dunn is a worse defender at two positions. I also suspect that many fear locking up Dunn longterm and watching him balloon in weight is a risk.

I suspect, but dont know, that Dunn is considered not only a slow but bad base runner. I also suspect Dunn isnt considered a great clubhouse influence or tireless worker. I also know Pat Gillick loved Ibanez, hence the Phillie connection. I also know Ibanez didnt brag about signing a 100 million contract which means in a defacto kind of way that Dunn is going to start off unhappy and Ibanez is already feeling like he struck it rich.

Two baseball people that know him best are sunny Jim and Wayne Krivsky. So I suspect once Tex is gone and then Manny the market for Dunn, Abreu etc will develop. So far we have Ibanez at 3 -30 and I suspect when the Nats whiff on Tex, then the market rate is set for Dunn in Washington. I would love to see Dunn sign a two year deal in Washington. Then we can watch him up close and see if he might make sense as a DH in 2011 when hopefully that big wave of pitching hits Birdland.

by sanders833 on Dec 12, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This makes Pat Burrell available

As a poor man’s Dunn I guess.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 12, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fine

I’ll take Pat. #3 in Philly history in a number of stat categories. The Os are a poor man’s team. Bring him on down.

by blawk359 on Dec 12, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now they're saying the Gnats offered 7/140

and eyeing Dunn and Orlando Hudson as a backup plan.

How does a 99 OPS+ multi-GG 2B enter into a power hitting OF search?

Also, WTF Zrbiec for coming out and telling the world that the O’s made their best and final offer on Teix? per “a source”

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 12, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think it comes down to

The Nats have some money to spend, and by golly they’re gonna spend it, even if its just on the O-Dawg (how about that Ronnie Belliard extension? Bowden’s a moron)

by pipkin on Dec 12, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno...

i actually think ronnie belliard is a good fit for them. a perfectly chromulant 2nd baseman. bet they could get SOMETHING for nick johnson if they traded him, presuming that they’d use dunn at first. soemthing’s gotta give in the outfield, though. you figure dukes and milledge are locks, langerhans is your 4th, willie harris is maybe your tweener (he can play 2b-of). between pena, dunn and kearns you have a great outfielder, but dunn is the only guy i’d really keep and say defense be damned.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 12, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nit-picking

I believe the spelling is “cromulent”. But the fact that you used it in a sentence embiggens my soul.

by Brotz13 on Dec 12, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's probably it

Hudson is a fine player and I’d take him if we didn’t have BRob. But you’d want both him and Dunn. Maybe that’s what they were saying , and I can’t read.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 12, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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