Let's talk about pitching

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 19, 2008 8:38 PM EST Comment 24 comments

Because that's what we need.

We need 2 starters (at least 0-2WAR) for 2 years. People with experience, but not old ex-superstars that might be douchey. Then we let Olsen/Liz/Waters/Bass/Penn/??? fight it out for the job. In 2010, add Tillman/Matusz/Arrieta.

MLBTR FA list here

Should we get a near retiree like Randy Johnson or Glavine?

Should we get a injury/rebound type like Pavano?

Should we drop some coin on Lowe? (i like this one if we don't get that other expensive guy)

Looper? Garland? Hire a Japanese speaking pitching coach?

Hopefully I didn't mention someone who already got signed...

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I'll bite...

Should we get a near retiree like Randy Johnson or Glavine?

Uh, no. Next.

Should we get a injury/rebound type like Pavano?

Uh, no. Next.

Should we drop some coin on Lowe? (i like this one if we don’t get that other expensive guy)

Lowe I would spend money on.

Looper? Garland?

Now you’re going to make me look up stats on a Friday night. Not gonna do it. Pass on both.

Hire a Japanese speaking pitching coach?

No, but there’s a Japanese pitcher or two we might want to think about.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 19, 2008 9:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I've always kind of routed for Derek Lowe

even if he was on teams on I hated. Even being on big market clubs he was still kind of underrated. People don’t remember he won twenty games in 2002 and could have won a Cy Young in 2006. I would love to get him as long as that sinker is sinking, because you pretty much know your going to get a sub 4 ERA with him.
I’m relieved we didn’t seriously go after Burnett, so we can at least throw an offer his way.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 19, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with Lowe

is that he’s not a top of the rotation guy, but wants to get paid like a top of the rotation guy. At this stage, he’s a 3. It makes more sense, and I’ve been blowing this trumpet for over a years now, to go after one or both the major Japanese pitchers out there, Kenshin Kawakami and Koji Uehara, in hopes that this move will help the Orioles to bring in more revenue and begin scouting more talent from Asia.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 20, 2008 5:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We have all week

I’ll just say that I’m not thrilled about Nippon League pitchers. It’s like AAAA or the AFL. That was kinda snobby, huh?

The more I think about Lowe, the more I like him. Piss of the rest of the ALE? Check. Do we have a good groundball defense? Check.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 19, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lowe does make a lot of sense

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 19, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I had hoped the O's had gone after Lowe the last time he was a FA.

I haven’t paid attention to how he did last year, but He’s someone I’d consider.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i don’t hate the idea of garland.. and yes lowe would be a good one.

What up?

by snakethejake on Dec 19, 2008 9:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was going to respond to this

But duck said exactly what I would have said, so there.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 19, 2008 9:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great minds, thinkin' alike.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 19, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure how great my mind is...

… but also agree with you on Lowe.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 20, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My sense is this is going to be a patch job

on pitching. Which eliminates Lowe, Garland, Oliver Perez and Wolf and almost any pitcher with an annual salary of $7 million or more.

The Japanese pitchers seem to be getting more expensive each week. Still, the Orioles need to bridge this cultural bridge and link themselves to the Yanks and Boston when Japenese players think East Coast. Unless the Oriole scouts disagree, I would offer to take Kei Igawa off the Yanks hands at .15-.20 on the dollar and offer the Yanks an incentive if Igawa becomes a league avg pitcher-to say .40 on the dollar.

So we should look at some innings eaters on one year deals. You know the list. I also happen to like Pedro if the price is right. Keep hearing Tim Redding and Jason Marquis and the usual suspects. Brad Penny may be the poor mans Ben Sheets with an incentive type deal. Looper will probably be to expensive and want at least two years.

I think the O’s will try to find one semi-reliable arm to slot behind Guthrie and then let the arms race begin. Patton, Olsen, Liz, Bass, Waters, Burress. I just dont see them trying to spend a lot of money on pitching or anyone except Brian and Nick this offseason. Of course trading Brian, Huff, Luke, Sherrill even Nolan Reimold for more pitching is a possiblity.

2009 is going to be remind us a lot of 2008. The O’s will try to add organizational depth and like all of us cross our fingers and hope the arms race in the minors is what we should be truly watching. Having Patton and/or Olsen step up would be a great bridge to the rest of the on coming minor league wave.

by sanders833 on Dec 19, 2008 10:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pavano, Sheets...

Those two seem like ‘low risk, high reward’ guys, but Sheets is rumored to be getting like $15mil per for two years from the Yankees. Garland’s peripherals scare me. I’m not sure what the upside is for Randy Johnson and Glavine are, especially considering that we should be planning for 2010 not next year.

I would try to secure someone you can count on for 200 innings though, as long as the price tag isn’t ridonculous. Maybe we just should’ve kept DCab…

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 19, 2008 10:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is Sheets

really that much of a different pitcher than Burnett as far as numbers and injuries? I know Sheets has been in the NL but is it close? I like Sheets but I figure he’ll re-sign with the Brewers…or may have already?

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 19, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sheets is still a FA

Rangers may be interested in him, he lives in Dallas area in the off season

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 19, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My vision is clouded here

But I love Sheets. Along with Peavy, he is one of my favorite current pitchers to watch. Would I love to sign him? Sure, but the injuries do worry me.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 19, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe I'm crazy

but given that we have no chance at competing in 09, I am kind of excited about the idea of taking this year to see who can pitch and who can’t. Give Olsen and Liz one last shot to see if they can preform as 4-5 guys, maybe bring up a David Hernandez, whats up with Patton? see if Johnson can do anything in the rotation, maybe something will surprise us. Later in the year, give a few starts to Mastutz, maybe even Arrieta or Tillman.

Meanwhile, yes we do need someone to provide us with some innings, but we can’t give up anything of value, sign a Tim Redding or someone similarly bullshit like that just to have a warm body on the mound.

But meanwhile, we do not need to invest in a Lowe, even if he is reliable and somehow really underrated. By the time we are competing he’ll be 38…

by ItsBenFeldman on Dec 19, 2008 11:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

not crazy, its the strategy for 2009 and maybe 2010

The key is not to rush any of the kids because its already taken its toll a bit on Olsen, Liz and of course the poster child in Daniel. If we are going to use a patch work then use it. Dont rush up Hernandez, Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, etc because they have a hot streak in the minors. Now IF they are dominate in the minors maybe (and what I mean is pitching like Hamels, LIncecum, Gallardo did in the minors before being called-you could see they were wasting pitches in the minors at that point). Liz was brought up last year and he was ok. Chris Waters didnt belong up. Olsen needed to go down sooner. If Mark Hendrickson is signed (yuk), then Waters and Burres will probably be gone as they are all pretty much the same type pitchers.

Ben, you better get used to a little bull….and remember it is warm and a mound. I actually like Tim Redding to eat innings. To me, he is a poster child for that job.

Lowe is better suited to the NL, the Yanks shouldnt be bidders at this point. I think the Mets might be getting ready to have him fall back to them esp if the Sox get Tex. The Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, and Brewers seem like fits if his price or years drop. I think the Sox can look at the age, cost and Lowe’s numbers with them prior to going to the NL West and decide to pass. Sheets turned down arbitration which would have guaranteed him at least 12 million. Texas makes some sense, except its not a park to go to rebuild value, but if Sheets is healthy he can win anywhere but it wont be here. He and Smoltzie are perfect fits for Boston on a one year deal since Boston has depth to cover missed starts.

by sanders833 on Dec 20, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's not...

…and say we did.

Talking about pitching makes me depressed.

by Jonny Pops on Dec 20, 2008 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Tim Redding =/= innings eater

He was not much better than our rookies, pitching in the NL last year. He’s had two seasons with over 150 innings…03 and 08. He’s bounced between AAA and MLB his whole career. We already have lots of that.

We need some real pitching…someone that the kids can look up to and learn from and who can keep and winning momentum we can muster going through the middle of our rotation. And I think we need to get it on the FA market, even if it’s the middle of the pile. But I think we can afford 15M and I think we’d get a lot out of it.

The Yankees get Sabathia, the Mets get K-rod, and the Orioles get Ryan Freel.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 20, 2008 12:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looper

I like Looper a lot but I’m pretty sure he’s a 4.50+ERA guy and pitched in the NL and out of the pen most of the tiem. He grew up about 45 minutes from where I did and played on an Olympic team. Of course he’s getting on into his 30s now and probably isn’t the answer but I wouldn’t mind having him on the team.

And I got over that “excitement” of seeing what the young pitchers could do about mid-May last year.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 20, 2008 4:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i agree.

What up?

by snakethejake on Dec 20, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

the O’s should forego any thoughts of bringing in Type A free agents like Sheets or Lowe. Yes, they’re the best out there at this point, but it would put a crimp in the development pipeline to give up draft picks.

I don’t see why they couldn’t sign a couple of the older vets (i.e. Johnson, Glavine, Pettitte, et al) to one-year deals as a stop gap to the flow of minor leaguers in 2010 and beyond.

It’s already a good offensive/defensive squad. If they get Teixeira, it could actually be the top producing lineup in MLB, as they’ll almost surely get big upgrades at C and SS. Defensively, just getting rid of Hernandez behind the plate and jettisoning the collective group of no bat/no glove SS’s from last season will make a pitching staff look better.

So…get a couple of one-year deals into the rotation, pencil in Guthrie for his usual, and expect reasonable improvement from youngsters Liz/Olsen/Albers…and see where the season takes them. A couple of good breaks, and the O’s could actually compete in 2009. If that doesn’t happen, they’ve got great trade deadline chips in Sherrill, Huff and Mora.

by sabertooth5185 on Dec 22, 2008 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs