Pads GM Towers: Peavy-Olson-Pie-et al is up to Cubs now
by silverstadium on Dec 9, 2008 1:36 PM EST
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PrintKevin Towers says in the Union-Tribune this morning that a deal is in place. It's up to the Cubs to sign off on it.
We've been around the room with this one already. I think it comes down to what we value more. A young unproven starting pitcher? Or a young unproven outfielder?
Now, the question to me, is can the Cubs pull off this deal considering how much they'd have to pay Peavy, their status on the selling block, Tribune's bankruptcy, and perhaps new legal troubles of the Tribune owner.
Setting aside all this, would the Cubs want to make the deal? Towers doesn't outline the whole package, but I think from a baseball perspective they need to do it. They have one of their best core of players in awhile, but they need someone like Peavy to put them over the top.
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So if this goes through
This would be Olson for Pie for us? I don’t have any high hopes in Olson, but our outfield would be a bit crowded. Nicky, AJ, Luke, Reimold maybe, and Pie? Guess one of Reimold/Luke would be traded then perhaps? Or at least more available for trade.
Even though I don’t like Olson the team seems to need as much pitching as possible.
Funny how last year Pie was the untouchable in the Brian Bob talks and now we might get him for just Olson?
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
I think Luke would be traded
Luke would be a great fit for the Cubs, and they will also be opening another hole at 2B by trading DeRosa to the Phillies.
This screams blockbuster with the Cubs, but I don’t think they have the talent to get just Luke, let alone Roberts and Luke.
Also, another rumor has us getting Marquis (and cash) along with Pie.
Rosenthal is reporting
that the Peavy trade can’t go through until the new Cubs owner is identified and can sign off on the payroll increase. Seems like that could keep the deal from happening in the immediate future.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8917320/Cubs-say-they%27re-not-close-on-Peavy-deal
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
Read
something about them having to move Marquis as well. Would that mean BAL would end up with Marquis or what?
Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark
Potentially
Cubs are supposedly willing to absorb mostof his salary, so Marquis might only cost $3-4MM.
He’s not a long-term solution, but he would eat innings next year, and he’s better than signing a Garland type to a long term deal.
I'd be ok with that
He’s no great shakes but we will need pitching next year and according to Cots he’ll be a FA after 2009. That’s better than having to sign some mediocre Paul Bird for like 3 years.
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
I guess
what I’m asking is would we potentially end up with Marquis and Pie for only Olson? I agree that Olson being a pitcher makes him more valuable but if we could get some serviceable time from Marquis while some of the young guys develop it might not be that bad of a deal. Plus we could then move one of Scott, Pie, Reimold.
Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark
I don't think we should trade Luke
I just plain don’t trust Nolan Reimold.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
I can't really comment on possible Luke trades
Because I recognize that I’m irrational about him. I don’t know why I like him so much.
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
It's the sideburns
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
Hmmmm
I don’t like Felix Pie too much. Hes never really put up stats that backed his top prospect billing a few years ago, and has never hit lefties in his life. Garrett Olson has completely flopped, but I think he should get one more chance. Value for value almost everyone would take Pie, but hes not really a good fit for the O’s right now. Andy is probably looking at Pie as a long term solution, but I don’t think he’ll ever be that good.
Also
Ramon-for-Freel swap may be announced soon:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/12/source_ramon_deal_closer.html
None of these are franchise-altering moves, but it’s nice to see some action.
Roch is reporting the same thing
I don’t really get adding Ryan Freel. He adds nothing. That’s gotta just be to dump Ramon more than anything. Roch is reporting that the Brewers are also interested in him.
http://masnsports.com/2008/12/another-bidder-for-ramon.html
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
Yep
The primary goal is to dump as much of Ramon’s salary as possible. Freel is just coming back because the Reds don’t want to absorb all of Ramon’s contract. Freel’s value is as a super-sub, and he could start at a variety of positions which gives MacPhail a little flexibility to try to trade Roberts or just deal with injuries.
Hopefully the mid-level prospect is decent.
says we might get a prospect in the deal too. I’d rather have a prospect than Freel (especially since Freek isn’t a shortstop) but I don’t want to have to watch Ramon this year. The only thing is those draft picks if he makes it to type A, but there is no guarantee that offering him arbitration would be worth it.
Pie and Reimold
Why not platoon the two? They have very similar minor league numbers. Maybe as a two-headed beast they could give us a pretty decent left-fielder.
Let’s be honest. Luke is just a placeholder. He’s a league average guy that is great for the team right now but has little to offer us when we hope to contend in a few years.
Yeah, I'm really surprised we'd trade Olson
just for Felix Pie. I mean, who the heck cares but Felix Pie does really jam up our outfield, and it’s not like starting pitching is an area of strength for us
Pie for Olsen
given that the Orioles are not going to be competing in 2009, I think we are still in a place where you deal for the most talent, regardless (to some degree) of positional need. Pie is certainly more talented than Olsen. Olsen, even at his best, even at the most optimistic projections, grades out as a back end starter, while Pie could be much more. Pie and Reimold would be a great platoon, and we could always deal from a position of outfield depth next season and beyond.
Ramon for Freel
Ramon is dead weight to this team, Freel is no kind of starter but given the absurd backups we have had in the past few years, from Fahey to Bynum to post callup-hot-streak David Newhan. I’d be pretty happy to have a utility player who doesn’t embarrass us, or look like a 12 year old boy.
Because I know you guys love this stuff so much
an insider on the OH is reporting:
Cubs get Peavy from SD
Orioles get Pie, Marquis + 4 million cash from CHI
Phillies get Derosa from CHI
SD gets Hill, Vitters, Cedeno from CHI, Olson form Bal, Happ from PHI
http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73161
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
I'd say that makes sense for everyone involved.
by silverstadium on Dec 9, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Olson for Pie, Marquis + 4 million???
I’m pretty sure I would take that deal. As people said before, Pie certainly has more potential than Olson, and getting Marquis for 3 million (I think his salary is about 7 million) is a cheap throw in to start to clean up our rotation.
More like $10M
According to Cot’s Contracts, Marquis makes $9.875 million this year. So we’d be getting him for a shade under $6 mil, which still isn’t horrible.
that is correct
they backloaded his contract to the last year
ah, thanks for the correction, I should have figured on backloading
still, we could end up spending a lot more for a league average pitcher this year than 6 million dollars. Orioles fans deserve at least 3 pitchers that can be league average.
He works for now
and you could flip him now at that price if something comes up. Marquis is another better in the NL pitcher, who I think also hits very well, who cant be happy about pitching his walk year in the AL East on a poor team.
Milwaukee might be a good fit but the deal would have to get bigger.
besides being liked by folks in Pikesville
I can’t see how getting Marquis can be very good. He always seems to get off to good starts then falters in the heat of the summer. Theres a reason why Guthrie can pitch well in Baltimore during the summer and its because hes in real good shape, unlike the rotund Marquis.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
For SD
is a pretty underwhelming package. Vitters is so far away, Hill has been hurt and has Steve Blass disorder, Cedeno is just fodder and Olsen and Happ can probably do ok but there is nothing there in terms of ace material.
For example I can think of some Canadian pitcher who brought a little better package.
From the Orioles standpoint I have to trust Andy that Pie’s upside is worth morth Olsen. I guess its just like asking in the draft-go for need or best player and if we get Pie its best player-we hope. Marquis is what he is and that is fine. I still wish they would throw in Gaudin esp since I have heard non tender talk about him although this deal might change that.
SD is boxed in
Three differences between the Bedard deal and any Peavy deal:
-It seems that the Pads are in the midst of a fire sale because the owner is in financial trouble and in the midst of an ugly divorce. The rest of the league knows this and so they’ve been giving lowball offers. See, there are worse owners than Angelos out there.
-Peavy has a huge contract. Bedard’s was reasonable.
-MacPhail knows how to preserve leverage to get the best deal. The Pad management hasn’t been able to hide how desperate they are to deal Peavy.
by silverstadium on Dec 9, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously
Pads are selling and would be apparently selling pretty damn low if you ask me. Peavy has a four year deal at just about 60 mill (11 mill first year). For an ace pitcher, its actually pretty darn reasonable considering Dempster is getting 52 for four year.
Andy would appear to be leveraging the situation just like he did with Bavasi last year. This year he is just acting more like a facilitator, helping to grease the wheels and get what he hopes is a fair return.
The biggest thing actually hampering Towers though is Peavy’s no trade clause. Its hard to deal when its one team at a time. Still if Towers says no trade at the end of the week then I guess he might try to move Giles (good luck with his no trade clause) to save salary in 2009 and see if Peavy gives him more options later.
Good point
Peavy’s contract is very reasonable and he is much more proven and reliable than Bedard at this point last year. It still is big money, though, and might keep some teams out of the picture. Bad ownership and negotiating seem to be at the root of the problem, not the contract.
by silverstadium on Dec 9, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Schmuck update on Ramon
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/12/hernandez_trade_update.html
Apparently, the Ramon Hernandez deal is slightly sweeter for the Orioles than previously reported. The O’s are believed to be getting two mid-level prospects and fourth outfielder Ryan Freel for Ramon.
Just waiting for an announcement.
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
2 mid-level prospects and Ryan Freel for Ramon is more than we would have gotten in draft picks after having to pay and watch the bastard for another year.
This, if true, is incredible.
What is a mid-level prospect anyway? B-? C+?
is level a reference to ability or standing?
i.e. does that mean a couple guys at high a or double a or a couple b-/c+ prospects?
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
I thought about that too
But would we really call Hayden Penn or Garret Olson high level prospects??
However midlevel could be B prospects too. I’m guessing B+ and above is out of the question. But I may be wrong, MacPhail has surprised me before.
John Sickel's rankings
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/6/683712/cincinnati-reds-top-20-pro
Your guess is as good as mine on where “mid-level” falls.
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
I kind of think about from the O's terms
so when I hear mid level O’s prospect it isnt anyone in our top 30 but I hope I am wrong.
Mid-level should be top 30
Once you get past 30, you’re stretching it to even call them a prospect.
Brad Bergesen, Kam Mickolio and Mike Costanzo are classic mid-level prospects, in my opinion.
Steve Traeschel trade
I guess Moore and Cherry would have been mid level but they actually were pretty high at one time so I guess lets just wait cause I have no idea and I suspect we all might have different definitions.
Inside help
The one good thing is Krivsky should certainly be helping Andy choose the prospects since he knows the system inside and out. I would temper my expectations though.
Let's hope Mr. Rosenthal is correct.
Even if we are unsure of the level of prospects we are getting, let’s face it, getting rid of Ramon is the top priority here. Watching him fumble around behind the plate last year was painful. If Quiroz has to start for awhile, oh well, its not like we were competing in 09 anyway.
Except that Quiznos got dropped from the roster yesterday
Although they may be able to rescind that given the current situation
This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.
I missed that
if we get two mid level prospects we might have to do some roster juggling
They probably won't be players
that we need to protect from the Rule 5 draft.
This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.
Now all we need is a catcher and a half
Free Agents (per Cots):
Catchers
Rod Barajas TOR
Henry Blanco * CHC
Johnny Estrada WAS
Toby Hall * CWS
Adam Melhuse TEX
Mike Redmond * MIN
Ivan Rodriguez NYY
David Ross BOS
Javier Valentin CIN
Jason Varitek BOS
Vance Wilson DET
Gregg Zaun * TOR
I vote for Gregggggggg Zaun.
This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.
I don't know
if that will work…I think he may be related to someone affiliated with the O’s? I could be wrong though.
Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark
probability, signability
all point to Zaun. Pudge could actually help Florida. I think Barajas will be in Toronto and I thought Redmond was in Minn.
Yeah, I don't see the sense in making a trade at this point
and if TOR has any brains, they keep Barajas or upgrade. I like experienced catchers who have worked on excellent pitching staffs, it’s what we need right now more than a big bat catcher.
This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.
micheal barrett
apparently the Os have interest in him too…and David Ross is no longer a FA, signed with Houston I belieb.
How old is Barrett?
He was an original Shorebird in ’96.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
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