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Report: O's make first real move of the winter, trade Ramon Hernandez for Ryan Freel

37944811_medium

via www.baltimoresun.com

Per Ken Rosenthal:

The Reds have reached preliminary agreement with the Orioles on a trade that will send catcher Ramon Hernandez to Cincinnati for outfielder Ryan Freel and two prospects, according to a major-league source.

The deal is pending the approval of the commissioner's office, because it involves a cash transaction of more than $1 million.

On Monday, major-league sources said the deal would not be completed unless the Orioles picked up a significant portion of Hernandez's remaining salary.

Hernandez is owed $8 million in 2009 with a club option of $8.5 million or a $1 million buyout for 2010, meaning he is guaranteed $9 million.

No word yet on the prospects, but this is really about getting rid of Ramon. He was a constant source of frustration last year behind the plate and wasn't much better hitting.  With our savior Matt Wieters on the fast track to the bigs, it was clear there was no place for Ramon. And if you're thinking he could have been a good backup guy once Wieters is called up, I direct your attention to a few years ago when Ramon was the new kid and Javy Lopez was the back up. It wasn't pretty.

Adios, Ramon. When I remember you, I'll try to remember your first year with the O's more than the last two.

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Comments

Display:

I bet he has a bounceback year

Contract year, small ballpark.

That fat bum.

Ah well, I’m guessing the prospects aren’t much. Maybe a coupla live arms that are mostly projection? Either that or older guys repeating AA who might stick as relievers.

by pipkin on Dec 9, 2008 4:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

eh

A deal that had to be done. Freel can be a slightly improved version of Jay Payton. The prospects likely be fringe guys, but it can’t hurt to have some fresh bodies.

by UMterp08 on Dec 9, 2008 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This gives us a collection of Luke Scott, Adam Jones, Ryan Freel, Nolan Reimhold, Lou Montanez, Nick Markakis on out forty man roster. Can we keep five outfielders? Does that mean that we lose Montanez? If we can’t keep five, do we lose Scott or just send Reimhold to AAA? Finally, what happens if we get Felix Pie also?

What the heck are we going to do with seven outfielders if we get Pie?

Still, no need to keep Hernandez, although it will be effing hilarious not to have a single catcher on our 40 man roster (Quiroz was outrighted).

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My guess is

If they get Pie, they’d play the OF as Markakis, Jones, and Pie with Luke DH’ing and Aubrey moving to first. That leaves Freel on the bench and Reimold and Montanez in AAA. Or they could trade Luke and replace him with Reimold or Montanez. Freel also plays 2B, right? If they don’t get Pie, Luke will stick in LF and Reimold/Montanez could handle DH duties. Or they could try to trade Huff and put someone else at 1B. Who knows at this point.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Freel plays 2B, it lets us trade Roberts if we want to do that

Our team is a big gigantic mess right now, with six outfielders, no catcher and no shortstop, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Freel’s played 5 games at 2B since 2006. Seems a bit of a stretch to get rid of Roberts with the idea of having him replaced by Freel.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ah, well, OK then. But we have no-one but Roberts capable of playing second base right now. We’ll need to see more than that.

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Luke and Aubrey will split up DH roles

I think Freel is pretty much just going to be an outfielder with us.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 9, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So less AB’s for Luke and Aubrey, more for Freel? Not sure why we would want to do that. Let Aubrey play 1B or DH, Luke in LF, and Freel can be the 4th OF’er or an 8th inning replacement for Luke.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All I'm saying is that Freel will play the same role as Jay Payton did last year

and Luke should be getting alot more at bats at 1B/DH. I’m also assuming Millar is not with us next year so Aubrey also plays alot more first. Freel just won’t be playing infield it looks like.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 9, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Huff to 1B

I guess you think the Orioles are already out of Tex contention… If anybody thinks Peter Angelos will let him go to the Nationals they are crazy.. If he does than well he is more of an idiot…

by fearthechant on Dec 9, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Does anybody really think

Teixeiras going to the Nationals?

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 9, 2008 10:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

headline should say

O’s make first real move of off-season to clear room for Weiters

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Dec 9, 2008 4:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I didn't want Wieters to be around Ramon too much

Too many lazy habits that could have been picked up and too jaded an attitude from Ramon.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 9, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If nothing else...

…Hustly McDirt ought to make up for Ramon’s laziness in the eyes of fans who don’t like the word ‘quantifiable.’ Not that Ramon’s quantifiable stats were any better.

And based on personal observation I have never seen a catcher less willing to block the plate than Ramon. I mean honestly, it was always “let me get two steps in front of the plate then dive back at the runner to try to make the tag as he scores.”

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 9, 2008 4:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Catcher block percentages

From beyond the box score:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/1/675791/2008-catcher-block-percent

Scroll way down for our two former catchers from 08.

Although, to be fair, they should factor in DCabs.

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A friend and I were looking for numbers on that earlier

we came up dry. I suppose just googling “catcher block percentages” never occurred to us. thanks for the link.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 9, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

NP

Meanwhile, I’ve spent way too much time looking for another catcher defense sabernalysis that I swore was on THT, but I can never find it.

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 7:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ramon stopped blocking the plate in Oakland

I think Denny Hocking from the Twins broke Ramon’s collarbone one year, and after that it was free pass to the plate.

"These Boston People Are AWFUL"

by Brillz on Dec 9, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Prospects

may actually be halfway decent, depending on how much $$$ we’re sending to Cincinnati.

Also, so much for MacPhail being too slow to get anything done…

Let the Matt Wieters era begin!!!

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Dec 9, 2008 4:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And remember...we have Krivsky

who I imagine knows the Reds system well

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"and remember, we have Jim Duquette..."

Everyone welcome Victor Zambrano!

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great point...

I hope we got Soto…

by fearthechant on Dec 9, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to really know what to think about this without knowing the two prospects or how much money we are saving. It’s good to get rid of Razor and make room, but Freel is completely worthless. He is a worse hitter than Ramon at a less demanding defensive position, although granted, Ramon isn’t exactly adequate defensively.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

hardly...

freel couldn’t be a completely worthless hitter b/c he gets on base at a roughly comparable rate to mora and roberts, who are both pretty good at getting on base (.357 career for freel to .355 for mora and roberts).

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Except Mora and Roberts actually have a little bit of power. Freel has none. And Freel is just about to turn 33 and his last 2 years have been well under his career average.

The only value I can see from Freel is he can steal a base or two. Although his SB% is actually fairly poor the last couple years.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

injuries...

he’s been hurt most of the last couple years. i’m going to presume the o’s are doing/have done their due diligence. this isn’t really like the patton situation.

even so, i’d say a guy w/ speed that knows how to get on base is a great bottom of the order guy to set up roberts/jones/markakis.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m guessing that the O’s were just willing to take any spare part that Cinn was ready to give us in order to get rid of Razor. Hopefully one of the prospects is halfway decent, but the fact that they aren’t named doesn’t make me too optomistic.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm fine with that

You can’t let a guy like Ramon near Wieters and let Wieters be jaded like Ramon is.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 9, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

apples and oranges

First comparing a second baseman to a corner outfielder is comparing apples and oranges. A second baseman that hits at the league average is far more valuable than a corner outfielder that hits at league average. Freel’s OPS last year was .700. If he would have had enough at bats to qualify, that would have been the 6th worst amongst outfielders. Roberts’s .828 OPS was the sixth best amongst second basemen. Mora’s .826 was good for 7th amongst 3rd basemen. Yeah, Freel can play a lot of positions – he can where a glove and stand in a lot of positions anyway, but right field is his best postion and his defense is a touch below average even there. (UZR of -0.6 last year). In his last 400 AB’s he’s stolen 21 bases and has gotten caught 16 times. He’s a terrible basestealer. For all his faults, Hernandez was still a very good hitting catcher. (OPS good for 8th in the league amongst catchers). A good GM would have gotten something for him. Players of Freel’s abilities are a dime a dozen. They can be had for pretty much nothing.

by uneasy rider on Dec 9, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From Freel's wiki entry:
Farney

Freel gained some notoriety in August of 2006 when The Dayton Daily News reported that Freel talks to an imaginary voice in his head named Farney.1 Said Freel: “He’s a little guy who lives in my head who talks to me and I talk to him. That little midget in my head said, ‘That was a great catch, Ryan,’ I said, ‘Hey, Farney, I don’t know if that was you who really caught that ball, but that was pretty good if it was.’ Everybody thinks I talk to myself, so I tell ‘em I’m talking to Farney.”2 Freel later said that Farney’s name arose from a conversation with Reds trainer Mark Mann: "He actually made a comment like, ‘How are the voices in your head?’ We’d play around and finally this year he said, ’What’s the guy’s name?’ I said, ’Let’s call him Farney.’ So now everybody’s like, ‘Run, Farney, run’ or ‘Let Farney hit today. You’re not hitting very well.’

It’s gonna be another interesting year…

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 5:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

that's amazing

I love the guy already. Whoever has me for Secret Santa, get me a Freel shirt

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

TRADE LUKE SCOTT FOR PITCHING

Hey, I love him as much as anybody. But let’s face the reality of our logjam in left. We can play Reimold and Montanez as stop gaps for a season. We are going to suck this year anyways. Luke actually played well enough where maybe we can get a pitcher of sorts. Unless we get some pitchers soon we are going to have the bullpen committee literally starting games.

I hope Freel never touches the field. The O’s are embarrassing enough as is. We should bring back Brady if we want stolen bases and OBP. You seen the guy lately? You could skin carrots on those abs.

by Dr. Giggles on Dec 9, 2008 5:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Reimold and Montanez

should not even be stopgaps for a month

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

Reimold would seem to have earned an audition.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am fine with Reimold getting an audition

but I am not fine with Montanez being anything above a bench player

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, so Lou may have bombed with the Cubs,

but whats with all the Montanez hating? Winning the triple crown despite not playing the last month in a pitcher-heavy Eastern League is no joke. Obviously the boy has more baseball talent than everyone on this forum combined, let him get a chance. Luke Scott has one of the ugliest games I have ever seen for fucks sake, and since when can the Baltimore Orioles afford to ignore talent??

by sickuvitall on Dec 9, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously the boy has more baseball talent than everyone on this forum combined, let him get a chance.

OK, I’m fine with you defending Lou, but I never want to see this logic used here ever again. It’s completely irrelevant and the next thing you know we’ll be getting lectured for disliking Brandon Fahey because he, too, is better at baseball than all of us, or I won’t be able to say Sidney Ponson is a rotten lardass because he’s better at baseball than I am.

Winning the triple crown despite not playing the last month in a pitcher-heavy Eastern League is no joke.

No, it’s not a joke. It makes him really good at Double-A baseball for once in his crummy career. He is 27 years old, was the #3 pick in the 2000 draft, and his career has been crap until now. Moved off of shortstop into the outfield, NEVER hit until this past season, and every year was a disappointment. Frankly, I’d HOPE he can hit at AA by now. He’s had enough chances. He came into pro baseball hyped at age 18 and it took him until 23 to escape the ladders of A-ball.

If he works out I’ll be psyched, dude. I say this every time I don’t think a player is very good: I’d be happy to be wrong. If he’s tagging the ball in spring training, give him a shot. On a short leash. But Montanez is at the point in his career where he’s guilty until proven innocent.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough...

and I will avoid the ‘he is better than us’ argument in the future. I am just not willing to disregard a player due to past failures with other clubs. If he fails with us, then ok. But at least give him the chance to fail, don’t just write him off because he had trouble developing.

by sickuvitall on Dec 9, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I am tired of picking up other teams’ retreads and watching them fail with us.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow

I must be tired b/c that made me laugh out loud.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 9, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nevermind

I read that wrong. yesterday was a long day.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Dec 10, 2008 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care what happens

You should always be able to say that Sidney Ponson is a rotten lardass.

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I imagine if I played little league

this past summer, I’d win the Triple Crown as well.

And that’s not to say that the Eastern League is little league, because it’s isn’t, but just like I am too old for little league, Montanez is too old for the EL. He’s past his expiry date.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think college would have helped

players like Montanez and Rowell, who were picked out of high school and didn’t get the experience that NCAA baseball provides. Perhaps if their skills were more well rounded coming into their organizations, we wouldn’t give up on them so quickly.

by sickuvitall on Dec 9, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Remind me...

How many HRs did Luke hit this year? How many RBIs? Seems to me, I could find a dozen OFs in the AL that didn’t do what he did, easy. Of course, that means I have at least 42 to pick from, but still, what are the odds that Monty even duplicates Luke’s numbers this year?

Why don’t we wait until Spring Training to see how Monty and LUUUUUKE compare, shall we?

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In his first 38 games in the bigs

He hit .295 / .316 / .446. Needs some plate discipline, but in my mind, he deserves another look at least.

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The prospects we're getting:

Brandon Waring

Justin Turner

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

They both look like they love their mothers

and a warm piece of apple pie

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And take their vitamins?

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Flintstones

10 million strong…and growing

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As long as

they love their moms and take their vitamins.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

saying their prayers, and taking their vitamins?

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Dec 9, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Read the link

and all will become clear

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 10, 2008 6:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and cheerleaders

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh good lord

For real? You busted that out? Tremendous.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 10, 2008 8:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We’re talking about Ramon Hernandez here. That’s about as much as you can expect. If Waring could actually play 2nd, then he would be a little bit interesting, but I’m guessing that by 2B/3B; they really mean 3B.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He’s probably now the best 3B prospect in our system, lapping Moore and Costanzo who both shit the bed last year.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention...

phenom billy rowell.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh holy shit

My mind blanked on Billy Rowell. I briefly forgot his existence. How do you like that?

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so's his hitting

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he could shorten

his rediculously long swing, that would +contact and -strikeouts. He is still young, let someone attempt to teach him…

by sickuvitall on Dec 9, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a funny!

Seriously, this IS the Orioles, we’re talking about. WHO, exactly, is supposed to teach him plate discipline? Terry Crowley, Jr.?

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008…

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 11, 2008 2:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Turner looks like crap

But Waring has decent numbers

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How does he look like crap?

I’m still trying to understand this number game.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

as soon as I said crap I felt a little bad. His numbers aren’t that bad.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Turner better than Waring

Waring’s strikeout numbers are scary (156 K’s in 441 AB)

by dkdc on Dec 9, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that's ridiculous

But his OBP is decent.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see

Turner looks like he could turn into a Theriot type guy; someone that plays everyday, defying logic, instead of being used in the utility role.

Also, scrappy.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

plus he's playing for the Peoria Javelinas

Pagoda! Where’s my javelina?

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's the last time you stab me...

pagoda.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"He has the cancer."

“No…he…doesn’t!”

by Brotz13 on Dec 10, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are you calling Coltrane?

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 10, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You wanna talk some jive? I’ll talk some jive. I’ll talk some jive like you’ve never heard!

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"Oh yeah?"

“RIGHT ON!”

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 11, 2008 2:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a javelina

is apparently a pig of sorts, not a Javelin thrower of spanish descent like I thought for many years.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2008 1:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

really...

more of a wild boar, i believe.

(which is not to say you’re entirely wrong…)

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2008 9:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You might’ve thought the same looking over Brian Roberts’ numbers for a couple years in the minors, too. Or the majors. Or just watching him play.

Ramon Hernandez was so completely not valuable to our franchise that if one of these dudes turns out to be a halfassed AAAA infielder, we probably win.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m still happy with the trade, I was just getting googly eyed at the 2 mid-level prospects idea. I didn’t think these were 2 mid-level prospects.

Ramon Hernandez is awful and I honestly would rather see Jason Varitek play for the Orioles than Ramon Hernandez. That’s how much I hate him.

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we're getting way more than we should have received

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, god now. As bad as Razor is/was; he was better than Varitek. Not to mention that I’d have to hear about his play calling about 10 times as much as when he played for Bostocn

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But Varitek is a gamer

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And gritty

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so is eckstein

What up?

by snakethejake on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought one of the benefits of civilization

was not having to put up with gameyness and grit.

That’s what refridgeration and washing machines are for.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 10, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

at least Varitek

tries to be effective defensively. That matters, I have no idea how much that matters, but it counts for something. I’d like to see what our pitchers would look like with a catcher who was at least competent about calling a game, and I don’t think that Ramon was.

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And if they don’t make it beyond AA, then we probably saved some money.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 9, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From TBC

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/brandon-waring.shtml
Scouting Report
Power: 100
Speed: 40
Contact: 6
Patience: 64

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/justin-turner-1.shtml
Scouting Report
Power: 46
Speed: 68
Contact: 76
Patience: 38

Also, Turner got an honorable mention from Sickels, Waring did not.

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not with a rating of 6 on contact

What, does he swing and spin around for a while while saying “wee” in some kind of Looney Toon fashion?

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2008 9:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the 6 was supposed to be for patience

Given the 156 K in 441 AB. 35%!

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, the 6 was for contact

From the site:

Contact: Compares strikeouts against a player’s plate appearances

Patience: Simply the number of walks compared to at bats

"Hats for bats, keep bats warm." Pedro Cerrano

by wscott on Dec 9, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

6 contact, but 100 power

Maybe like a Rob Deer type?

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2008 1:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DUN DUN DUNNNN

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 6:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else really want to see us randomly draft a Shortstop or Catcher in the rule 5 draft???

I figure, it can’t hurt us at all to do so. We’ll practically have our pick of scrub prospects. This team isn’t going anywhere, and we’ve have two spots in our 40-man available.

by math_geek on Dec 9, 2008 6:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1

I’d like to see us waive someone like Alfredo Simon, who I can’t even remember really, and sign Izturis and two Rule 5ers. I’ll be happy for one though.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2008 1:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

shit, i take it all back...

per roch:

Freel would have been Buck Martinez’s starting second baseman in Toronto in 2001, but he tore up his ankle. Martinez really likes the guy. He thinks this is a great trade.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2008 6:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

From the razor sharp mind of Buck

What’s next? Insight from Jim Hunter.

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

God, if DEMPSEY likes him

I might need to be talked off a ledge…

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I miss Dempsey already

him and his stories about Zaun and Palmer talking about his springs in Round Rock, I can not wait for the season to begin!

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Miss Dempsey?

That makes one of us.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

umm, sarcasm

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Dec 9, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know

Just makin’ a point, that’s all.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 10, 2008 6:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Palmer should write a fucking memoir about his trips to Round Rock

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Dec 9, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, it's gonna be another long season...

…but getting to watch Markakis, Adam Bomb, and Wieters grow up together might just make it worth it. Granted Nick is pretty much ‘grown’ but you get the idea.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can you say...

Hello Greg Zaun…… Can’t wait to hear Demp say his name 20,000 times between now and May 16th.. HAHA

by fearthechant on Dec 9, 2008 9:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope he drops that extra 'g'

In March I’m adding two d’s to my name. DDAVIDD!

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Grregg Zzaunn

If we sign him I’ll have to make shirts

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Andy MacPhail – 1
O’s fans counting on the inevitable disappointment – 0

To be continued…

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Dec 9, 2008 11:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ramon's value...

…was next to nil, right? 12 months ago I didn’t want to trade him cuz I thought he might accrue some trade value, but that didn’t happen. I suppose a utility player is nice, right?

In the end, will this trade be any different if we hadn’t just DFA’d Ramon or something?

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2008 1:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yes it will

because we’re not on the hook for ALL of Ramon’s contract now. It’s like DFA’ing him, but getting 20% off.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Dec 10, 2008 6:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My analysis

Ramon’s projected production next year is worth ~$7.5MM, so his “value” is -$1.5MM because he is owed $9MM.

On the other hand…

Freel’s projected production next year is worth ~$2.5MM, so his “value” is -$1.5MM because he is owed $4MM.

Both of these guys had similar negative value in the trade market because of their contracts. So, in my reckoning, the trade was a good move if one of the following is true:

1) The prospects we got back were worth more than the cash paid.
2) The payroll that was freed up is spent well in a depressed free agent market.
3) There are some negative externalities from Ramon that aren’t reflected above (ie his game-calling or his poor influence on Wieters).

I don’t think #1 is true – there are conflicting reports about the cash, but it looks like the O’s paid the equivalent of mid-to-late first round draft pick bonuses.

I think there’s a decent possibility that #2 will be true, but it’s also pretty easy to be pessimistic given the Orioles history.

I’m a big believer in #3.

I like the trade.

by dkdc on Dec 10, 2008 9:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
  1. is a risk. We got 2 7th round draft picks iirc. Which isn’t a death sentence, but these are guys who, chances are, won’t make it. At least they are infielders, which we seem to be fresh out of in the minors.
  1. will probably be spent on 1.6 years of a certain no hit hot glove SS, I hope
  1. bang on, as long as his vet replacement doesn’t turn out to be a huge dbag

I like it, not because I like Farney or the kids, but because we needed to get rid of RH

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

stupid auto format

This will be my signature until the Orioles get a real SS.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's a great trade...

…Ramon had negative value to the O’s and his salary was a sunk cost. Effectively, the O’s just created room for Wieters, saved $2M, and picked up a couple of future alternatives for cheap utility guys.

The O’s aren’t going to get Furcal, as they’re close to signing Cesar Izturis for 2 years. Great glove, lousy bat…but the O’s really don’t need much more offense…none if they land Teixeira.

Roberts
Jones
Markakis
Teixeira
Huff
Mora
Wieters
Scott
Izturis

…is a strong lineup and strong defense. This year, the pitching won’t be good enough to compete…but perhaps 2010 will provide hope with Matusz, Tillman, and Arrieta coming up.

by sabertooth5185 on Dec 10, 2008 10:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm happy with these moves

1) We need Izturis’ defense. He’s relatively cheap. Even with his bat, he won’t hit worse than our shortstops in 2007.

2) The Freel-Ramon trade is essentially a wash. I don’t think either prospect will make it and the monetary impact is probably neutral. But we dump someone who’s become a pain, given Trembley more flexibility with his bench, and cleared the way for Weiters. Here’s Keith Law’s take.

Plus, I have irrationally liked Freel in fantasy baseball. Maybe it’s the name, maybe it’s his uber-utility status, maybe it’s the stolen bases. I like the idea of him as an Oriole and, in real baseball terms, he doesn’t hurt the team, even if he doesn’t help all that much.

by silverstadium on Dec 10, 2008 10:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well said...

Ramon was just becoming a local joke. I can’t even count the amount of times O’s broadcasters on tv and radio pointed out his lackluster defensive efforts. Regardless of the return, which I think will be about even, Ramon is GONE!! THANK U SWEET JESUS!!

by sickuvitall on Dec 10, 2008 3:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Turner is good

All the members of the Reds formers think they gave up too much in Turner.

.330 in the fall league.

by NickMarkaces on Dec 13, 2008 1:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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