Patton with labrum tear?

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Feb 20, 2008 9:05 PM EST Comment 38 comments

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-osnotes0220,0,2248999.story

what the hell do the Orioles have to do to climb out of the pathetic mess they have put themselves in after 10 years of poor drafting, bad decisions and overall mismanagement.

the dysfunction continues, as it really sounds like the prize of the Tejada trade is damaged goods, that the "biceps strain" the Astros shut him down with actually turns out to rhyme with "fabrum bear".

Mr. Patton, maybe we'll see you in Camden Yards in 2010.

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WTF?

No physical on this guy? Fucking hell.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 20, 2008 9:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

If this is true, I feel sorry for the Orioles, a labrum tear is sort of a death sentence for a pitcher, and that was the prized piece that the O's got for Tejada.

by cubsfan2883 on Feb 20, 2008 9:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Please, not that!

Look, I'm no pitcher, and I hate to do personal anecdotes, but...

This ain't good. No matter how good the surgeon, no matter how successful the procedure, his shoulder will never be 100% again.

I'll spare you the stories of my shoulder 'scope, because I'm sure there's a dozen of you that have had worse than me. But as my ortho said, "It will never be the same. It will be close - maybe 90, maybe 95% as good as it was. But it will never be the same."

Thankfully, in my case, that's plenty good enough. I don't wrestle with my wrestlers, so it's not like they're missing anything. No residual pain, it doesn't even tell me when it's gonna rain.

But I'm not paid to throw a baseball, either.

IF it's a torn labrum, and it requires surgery, this ain't good.

How, of all did, did the ORIOLES miss a torn labrum on a guy's physical? I mean, I can't imagine that PGA doesn't order an MRI on the shoulder and elbow of every pitcher the FO even thinks about trading for or drafting and demands to see the films himself. Isn't that what he did with Aaron Sele?

This isn't as bad as the Sox and Schilling (because Patton sure as hell ain't making $8 million with us this year, nor is he the ace of the staff), and after the Mitchell Report, getting anything beyond a bag of balls for Tejada might qualify as a fleece. But if this is true, we sure got a lots less for Miguel than we were slapping ol' Andy on the back for about 2 months ago.

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat.

by duck on Feb 20, 2008 9:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

physicals

"How, of all did, did the ORIOLES miss a torn labrum on a guy's physical?"

For the Seattle trade, only Jones and Sherrill had a physical. This is quite surprising though given that Angelos is usually anal regarding physicals.

Rocky Cherry, O's pitcher, not John C. McGinley's love child.

by birdman on Feb 20, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One more point

I really need an editor

"How all all TEAMS, did the ORIOLES...."

And to think I used to write for a living.

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat.

by duck on Feb 20, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

DAMMITT

"How, of all teams, did the ORIOLES..."

I hate typing. And it hates me.

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat.

by duck on Feb 20, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FYI, guys

I don't think this is necessarily as a big a deal as you're making it out to be. I believe Adam Loewen has had a torn laburm for years and he's never needed surgery.

by Stacey on Feb 20, 2008 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

if he was shut down

"strained biceps" is code for "future lbrum surgery" just like "forearm strain" equals "Tommy John".

call the rest of us jaded, or overly pessimistic, or downright Orioles fans, but this just ain't good.

a pitcher CAN pitch with a "flap tear" as Patton alludes to in the article. HOWEVER, in the grand scheme of things, i don't think anyone would prefer the main guy you trade a former MVP for having any kind of tear in the mechanism that allows him to throw 90 MPH.

i was a pitcher in H.S. and college, and let me tell you, once the shoulder starts to disintegrate, you're pretty much screwed. elbows are MUCH MUCH easier to recover from.

I came to Camden Yards to watch the O's and all I got was this lousy "Fenway South" t-shirt.

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Feb 21, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hah!!

call the rest of us jaded, or overly pessimistic, or downright Orioles fans

Now that is a great motto for us.

by dfleis on Feb 21, 2008 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Hopefully this isn't as bad as it can be, but I'd be much less concerned if there was no tear at all.

But you're right, we should keep perspective. After a decade, it's easy not to do so, though!

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Feb 21, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Great...

nice acquisition, MacFAIL

by GeronimoGil on Feb 21, 2008 8:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

According to orioles.com

MacPhail knew about this the entire time. So maybe it does suck, but the wool wasn't pulled over his eyes (speaking of his eyes, their level of blueness is freaking me out)

Notes: Patton Not Being Rushed

by Stacey on Feb 21, 2008 8:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

re:

So the O's were that antsy to get rid of Tejada.

They can talk all they want about his upside potential being worth the risk. None of us know the extent of the injury, but the O's fan in me expects the worst.

"This is Birdland"

by drj on Feb 21, 2008 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, yeah

Someone probably was able to leak to them that the shit was about to hit the fan with him and the Mitchell Report.
It really wasn't that hard to guess that it would, even if nobody gave them a heads up off the record.
Tejada wanted to go.
MacPhail wanted him gone.
He made no sense for this team.
The Astros front office and owner have never even heard of steroids, making them the perfect trade partner.

Patton's injury sucks and this significantly reduces his chances of ever being worth a shit, particularly as a starter, but hey, there's still four more players we got in that deal.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 21, 2008 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

RE:

I kind of get the feeling that Houston knew as well that Tejada was going to be on the list and knew it would be easier to get the trade done before it's release. The trade going down the day before the release of the report is too much of a coincidence for me to believe.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 21, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sure

But it's still a bummer to see the (supposedly) best piece of the trade is actually damaged goods. Go O's. Didn't someone say "In MacPhail We Trust"?

"This is Birdland"

by drj on Feb 21, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL...

Maybe "Fabrum Bear" should be the Orioles' new mascot.

"Mom! I want to get my picture taken with the bear. Ow! My shoulder"

oriolesupdate.blogspot.com

by BrianS on Feb 21, 2008 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This cracked me up

Good job.

by Stacey on Feb 21, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Some research...

Kerry Wood had labrum surgery. Jury's still out on whether or not he can ever be effective again.

On the bright side...

Jason Schmidt had labrum surgery in 2000. He's had some great seasons since then.

Jose Valverde had labrum surgery and he's had a couple good seasons.

So I wouldn't call it a death sentence for Patton, especially at his age. It's not encouraging for sure, but one would hope that MacPhail knew exactly what he was getting into after reading that article on orioles.com. One could also surmise that we wouldn't have been able to get a pitcher of Patton's quality in a package for Tejada if that pitcher was completely healthy.

by silverstadium on Feb 21, 2008 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE:

Hasn't Kerry Wood had just about every part of his arm and shoulder injured?

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 21, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Kerry Wood had labrum surgery. Jury's still out on whether or not he can ever be effective again.

No it's not. Kerry Wood is maybe the stupidest pitcher I have ever seen. "Fuck, that hurts my arm. Let me try again. Fuck, that hurts my arm. Let me try again. Fuck, that hurts my arm. Let me try again. Fuck, that hurts my arm."

I'm not calling the man himself stupid, but as a pitcher, he is a real shit-for-brains.

Gone but not forgotten...

by SC on Feb 21, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's posts like this...

that remind me why you are our fearless leader, SC.

"Fuck, that hurts my arm. Let me try again..."

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat.

by duck on Feb 21, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's like Bart Simpson and the cupcake

Does that mean Kerry Wood is also dumber than a hamster?

by punkrawka on Feb 22, 2008 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A couple corrections

1- he's more beloved to Cubs fans than perhaps Brian roberts is to O's fans. He's done a lot for the city of Chicago, and for the Chicago Cubs franchise.. he's been healthy for the first time in years last year, and should be good to go this year..

2- I'm not sure if what Wood had done was as serious as some of the other major labrum reconstructions, or even as serious as what Mark Prior has had done. Wood's injury was more in the rotator cuff as opposed to the labrum...

3- I think Dusty was pretty set on keeping him in the rotation, regardless of whether he wanted to be or not.. Dusty rode him and Prior pretty hard during his tenure. I don't blame Dusty for injuring Wood, but there were things he could have done that he didn't do.

by cubsfan2883 on Feb 27, 2008 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

granted

Schmidt has had a couple very good seasons, but he also missed all of last year with another labrum surgery and won't be ready for opening day this year. and there are a few pitchers who have come back from labrum surgery and contributed, but most that return are marginal major leaguers at best.

do the names Matt Clement, Mark Prior, Anibal Sanchez and Tony Armas Jr mean anything? these are all guys who had labrum surgery and are trying to come back this year. would you want any of them?

how about Brain Bullington, Kenny Baugh, Bobby Livingston? all are former first round picks who had labrum surgery. ever heard of them?

how about Kurt Ainsworth?

i'm not trying to be depressing here, just realistic. few pitchers come back from labrum surgery at all, let alone be successful. most never come back.

this is old, but still interesting reading:

http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/

here's the science:

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/06_99/richards.htm

I came to Camden Yards to watch the O's and all I got was this lousy "Fenway South" t-shirt.

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Feb 21, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya

And I'm disappointed too. I find it hard to believe that MacPhail would screw up something as big as this when I don't see a major mistake that he has made yet. Maybe I have blind faith here, but I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. For a little while anyway.

by silverstadium on Feb 21, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Patton

From that Slate article:

"Of the 36 major-league hurlers diagnosed with labrum tears in the last five years, only midlevel reliever Rocky Biddle has returned to his previous level. Think about that when your favorite pitcher comes down with labrum trouble: He has a 3 percent chance of becoming Rocky Biddle. More likely, he'll turn into Mike Harkey, Robert Person, or Jim Parque, pitchers who lost stamina and velocity--and a major-league career--when their labrums began to fray."

-----------

I asked Keith Law if Patton is done if he has a torn labrum or slap tear. He said, "I wouldn't say done, but it's very bad news for Baltimore. Shoulder problems often lead to long-term velocity loss, and he can't afford that."

IMO, it's highly doubtful Patton will turn out to be worth anything. The Tejada trade will most likely turn out to be useless. Scott may turn out to have some value. Costanzo doesn't look too bad. But overall, I'm not optimistic about the trade.

I wouldn't say done, but it's very bad news for Baltimore. Shoulder problems often lead to long-term velocity loss, and he can't afford that.

Rocky Cherry, O's pitcher, not John C. McGinley's love child.

by birdman on Feb 21, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be forgetting

about those fireballers, Albers & Sarfate. Sarfate in particular was tearing it up last season and supposedly looks incredible in ST, which is a good thing, because I think that motherfucker's out of minor league options! Albers also has one hell of an arm, even if his wiring is positively Cabrera-esque.

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 22, 2008 7:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I'm not very optimistic about those guys, particularly Sarfate. His control stinks. Albers was an OK prospect a year ago but he did poorly at the big league level this year. I still have some hope for him but I'm not very optimistic about either pitcher.

Rocky Cherry, O's pitcher, not John C. McGinley's love child.

by birdman on Feb 22, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Man

F all those career stats on Sarfate. Homeboy walked 1 and struck out 14 last year in 8.1 innings with Houston. Think "figured it out". Think "turned the corner".

"Everyone always says 'You don't have to do this.'"

by Jonnypops on Feb 22, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why must pitchers be so fragile?

Really, if Troy Patton turns out to have a career exactly like Jason Shmidt, torn labrum or no torn labrum, I'm still glad we made the deal because the shit Tejadas going through would never ever be good for a rebuilding program.

"All I have to say is our partner is going to shock the world because he is none other than THE SHOCKMASTER!"-Sting

by jobe on Feb 21, 2008 1:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Because it's not a natrual motion

The body wasn't designed to throw a small sphere 90 mph repeatedly on a semi-weekly basis.

I'm always surprised at pitcher who last more than a few years. The wear and tear on tendons, joints and muscles by pitching is extreme.

I remember 14 straight foul balls in one at-bat.

by duck on Feb 22, 2008 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this why there's an old adage...

about needing ten prospects to develop a couple major league pitchers.

So, I said, uh, lama: how about a little something for the effort?

by jq higgins on Feb 21, 2008 3:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Which is why I have no problem with MacPhail's continual stocking of young arms over position players.

by silverstadium on Feb 21, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like to follow the minors

And the other young arms we got aren't looking that spectacular. Albers may be the second best young pitcher that we have acquired and he is less then impressive.

MVP.