O's 3, White Sox 3: That was time well spent
by Scott Christ on Apr 29, 2008 12:43 AM EDT
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PrintThe O's and White Sox played to a 3-3, 11-inning draw today thanks to heavy rain in Chicago turning the field into a slip and slide/marsh, and no makeup date has been announced as the teams don't play again until way later this year, and that's in Baltimore.
By the time it comes around, I don't think it'll really matter if this game ever gets finished or not, but they could also choose to do it Monday, June 23, since both teams are off, the White Sox leave for L.A. on the 24th, and the O's would just have to come down from Milwaukee, equally useful as they're in Chicago starting the 24th to play the Cubs, anyway.
But one inning of baseball maybe? Getting a crowd in and disrupting travel plans and all that for what could be one inning of baseball? Sounds...dumb. So I expect they'll just finish it in Baltimore.
I'm attaching a poll here because I can't decide who wins today's Cabrera Bowl. Here's Danny's line: 6.1 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 7 BB, 2 K.
I know he managed to skirt by walking seven today, but he walked seven today. I think this one qualifies as a toss-up. So do your duty.
via d.yimg.com
zknower and I will both refrain from voting for our own causes.
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Walking 7 is bad
but allowing 4 hits in 6.1 innings is pretty sweet. This is definitely a QS, even if ZK owes a steak to every fielder on the Orioles.
I know I haven’t been around much… NFL draft festivities beckoned.
that's actually what I'm thinking, too
The 7 BBs really bother the shit out of me but bottom line is we were in the game.
by Scott Christ on Apr 29, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
what about a push?
He kept us in the game so i voted for zk, but it wasnt a good start, he just got a little lucky at the right time and stranded a ton of people. So this start should result in a push, i think its a legit option
by Reddrummer9187 on Apr 29, 2008 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
This one goes in my column, no doubt
This is not a push. I think it sets a bad precedent to start debating what makes a quality quality start. The original post says I get a point for any QS, and we will debate only games where a QS was achieved and then lost in later innings. Do we really want to have to debate each and every game? I thought that was what the QS metric was there for.
Here’s what I have to say about yesterday’s game.
1. Danny delivered a 2-run game (not even 3!) to the bullpen in the 6th. You know that you will take that every damn time it happens.
2. 3 of the walks were to Jim Thome. Thome will hit 35+ HR this year. Yesterday, he was 0 for 3, no runs scored, no RBI. Danny pitched around him, and he should have; that’s his job. If he’s relying primarily on his fastball, he should be treating Thome as if he’s Barry Bonds. His Thome strategy was successful. Without it, maybe he only has 4 walks, but the game is 4-1. You would prefer this?
3. Consider some of the other aspects of Danny’s game: how he bounced back from bad situations. This is what we’re looking for this year. He got into jams, but then instead of imploding, he got out of them, with ground balls, and third outs (a number of his walks came with two outs). Likewise, after Quentin homered to lead off the sixth, Danny was unfazed and got the next 3 batters in a row.
4. Look at the last two walks, in the seventh inning. The first was a 9-pitch AB in which swisher fouled off 3 pitches before getting the walk. Then, following a bunt, which Cabrera fielded cleanly, Thome was IBB’d, again as he should have been. Neither of these was a typical Cabrera “can’t find the plate” walk.
5. As mentioned before, the ump’s small strike zone, horrible pitching conditions.
I’m leading this poll 3-1 before I even post this. I think last night was exactly what we’re hoping to see from Danny this year: finding a way to pitch, instead of just throwing the ball, when he doesn’t have his best stuff.
if he walked walked no one
but gave up three HRs, it would be a different convo. Win for ZK
"We might as well just win this game." -Adam Jones
7 Walks
But it was a quality start that deserved a win. As much as I would like to criticize him for the walks, he never really let them capitalize on them. It was not his best stuff, but he was able to keep things under control and put us in a position to win.
here's my argument
And I don’t really care either way, but it’s the reason I put the poll up.
Control is the main problem Cabrera has. Walking seven and striking out two is pretty got-damt horrible. The man was livin’ on a prayer out there, and while he came out unscathed, for the most part, he really shouldn’t have. It was very much the old Cabrera, minus strikeouts.
Uh, take his hand, and we'll make it, I swear?
"Turn them over to us one time. I'll show them where the other side of the fence is." - Dave Trembley
Did you WATCH the game?
He didn’t have horrible control. His pitches were, by and large, around the plate with late movement. He had a number of 1-2 counts. He was being aggressive (except with Thome) and it paid off.
“Livin’ on a prayer”? Try not to let your bias outweigh the result of the game.
not to mention...
one or two hit batsmen.
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on Apr 29, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
wild pitch/pitches
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on Apr 29, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact still remains that he only gave up 2 ER.
"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."
by BENNY BIRDMAN on Apr 29, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
How many were IBB?
At least one. Plus, the second ER was with help from the bullpen.
He got yanked too early, I thought. Whatever happened to Dave wanting to give pitchers a chance to stay in and win tie games? Normally, I don’t agree with that, but Danny was doing fine.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
In other news...
Luke Scott will be at ESPN Zone tomorrow at 11:00AM answering questions. Could someone please go there and ask him why he’s so awesome?
According to the "rules"
that’s a QS… I don’t care if he walked the basesloaded every inning and then got triple plays, 6+IP, 3ER or less=quality start, even though I find that to be one of the dumbest “stats” ever. Even more so than BA. But my vote goes Z. Cabs got himself into some trouble but worked his way out of it. Last year, that line would have looked like:
4.2 IP, 3 H, 5 ER or more, 9 BB, 6 K.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
yeah, up there w/ the gamewinning rbi...
yes, technically a quality start by baseball terms, but sort of crummy any fair measure. i mean, this start was downright trachselian!
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on Apr 29, 2008 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ronnie is, in fact, a dillweed
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
verily, on this point...
we agree.
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on Apr 29, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I think QS is a legit stat
Basically, it boils down to “you keep your team in the game for most of the game.” Its not a measure of how you did it, its a measure of that you did it.
Sure, on the edge, 3 ER in 6 innings isn’t great, but its also not bad. If Trax gave us that every outing I would be very happy.
However, I also thing there should be a stat called “TS”, for Terrible Start, for pitchers that go less than 3 innings and give up 4 or more runs.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
I vote SC.
IBB aside, you’re still talking a half dozen walks. Early on, I was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt that, yes, it was drizzling the entire game when it wasn’t outright pouring down rain. He hit a guy & there were times it was obvious that the ball was slipping away for both pitchers.
But D-Cab’s new M.O. is to throw a lot of fastballs. A LOT of fastballs. And he throws a 2-seamer. You could coat a baseball in grease & still throw a 2-seamer relatively accurately.
I dunno – I guess I’m just not sold on the “new” Cabrera yet. And his arch nemesis, the walk, showing up all game yesterday isn’t the best sales pitch I’ve ever heard.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
He's going to have control problems
That’s why he’s Daniel Cabrera. The thing is, he has problems finding the strike zone no matter what. We just have him throw more accurate pitches now.
7 WALKS.
Sorry, Z. I voted for our boy SC on this one.
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again."
I voted for zk
It really could have gone either way, but I think it all comes down to the fact that I don’t want to admit to myself that Danny was the same old Danny. Actually, he was better than last year’s Danny. Last year’s Danny would have walked 7 but also allowed a buttload of runs. This was more reminiscent of pre-Mazzone Danny who walks 7 even though the other team can’t really hit him.
Also, for the record
I’M NOT IN LOVE WITH DANNY CABRERA. That’s just some stupid rumor that was started in the back of Biology Lab last week!
SHUTUPYOUGUYSSTOPMAKINGFUNOFME!
QUALITY START: A game started in which a pitcher lasts for six innings or more and allows three runs or less.
That’s the glossary definition on virtually every baseball site out there. It’s pretty clear who gets the point.
But this was the Danny we all know…
I know its technically a quality start
But he walked seven and at anytime things could’ve gone horribly wrong. So SC.
that's just the thing..
everyone is judging on what COULD HAVE (and last year, WOULD have) gone wrong. But it didn’t. He settled down and battled in tough spots. I was under the impression Cabrera Bowl was more a comparison of Old Danny to New Danny, than actually Danny to Other GOOD pitchers, and based on that, this one goes to Z.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
I voted for a QS
Technically it is. Was it actually a “quality” quality start. Probably not, but rules are rules. It definitely was worth a poll and a discussion.
yeah...
depsite my carping about the technicals, i’ve gone w/ z on the “don’t hate the player, hate the game,” party line.
ronnie's a dillweed.
I voted for z....
I don’t like that his walks are back up, but a QS is a QS.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
Did anyone notice
that almost the same % of people that voted with zknower voted “my loins are aquiver” on the other poll and the flip side voted sc and “i have no loins?”
I've got two nickels and a paradigm. - RWH
I looked at the box and Immediately thought "Push." But there are reasonable arguments against that, so I think we should appeal the decision to a universally acknowledged fair judge:
Let’s ask Sid.
And if you disagree with his verdict, just get off your jet ski and punch him out.
Rah Rah Rasputin / Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that / Really loved Birds. -- Boney M
z wins!
I’m OK with that. Really, he and Cabrera deserve the point. He did his job (or, well, the defense picked him up, but he pitched to that defense, so hey). I think really my point is more that this kind of start is a concern.
And a 21-to-21 K-to-BB ratio is a concern.
agreed.
I think “concern” is a little strong, but that’s just because, more than anything, I admired his composure. Irrespective of his pitches, Danny has a LOT more focus this year, and I think that’s helping.
But I will agree that this start is not exactly one for the vault. How he fares next time out (in the guaranteed fair weather of anaheim) will speak volumes.
yep
The Inevitable Daniel Cabrera Meltdown has not been a problem so far. Even when it’s not going gangbusters, he’s pitching to his strengths. That’s very admirable, and Rick Kranitz has done a great job in that regard.
by Scott Christ on Apr 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
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