Mike Piazza retires

by Baltimo on May 20, 2008 5:30 PM EDT

At age 39 Mike Piazza has decided to hang up the cleats and call it a night. He was always a league away from us whether it be with the Mets or the Dodgers but nonetheless, come playoff time he was awesome to watch. He will be touted as the greatest hitting catcher of eternity by Mets fans, but they will soon be silenced by Matt Wieters. His career line is very impressive for having to catch games night in and night out but the real questions remains: Dodgers or Mets? I vote Oakland if you ask me but I may just be in the minority.

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Dodgers

So, you’re just overlooking his 6 days with the Marlins, huh?

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on May 20, 2008 10:57 PM EDT 0 recs

You are right

That deserves some serious consideration.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on May 21, 2008 12:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

Mets

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 20, 2008 11:07 PM EDT 0 recs

Dodgers

They were debating this issue on XM Radio. One of the announcers is a Mets fan. Not surprisingly, he said Piazza should go in as a Met because he spent more years in NY than LA and he was part of a WS team in NY. I decided to call in mostly because I was curious to see how hard it was to get on air and I was bored since I was driving home from LA. I got on air almost immediately which I didn’t like because it did give me much time to actually come up with an opinion, but I went with Dodgers. He did spend more years with the Mets but some of those years were decline years. In contrast, he most spent most of his peak years with Dodgers. And the whole WS appearance thing isn’t really compelling. Clemens wants to go as a Yank because he won a WS there but he spent more peak years with the RS. Same logic should apply to Piazza. Of course, like I said, I was driving at the time so I’m kind of guessing that he actually spent morre peak years in LA. In any case, I’m pretty sure I pissed off the Mets guy.

I also brought up Mussina with the XM guys. I’ll pose the same question here that I posed to them. IF he goes in, does he wear a Yankees or Orioles cap? I can’t make up my mind.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 21, 2008 2:17 AM EDT 0 recs

Chris Russell?

Is that the XM announcer/Mets fan? I can’t stand him. I think if you’re on XM you should at least take a stab at being impartial, but he’s always all “GOOO METS WOO!” I was driving home from Jersey one day last June when the Yankees were playing so bad and he wouldn’t shut up about how “The Yankees stink, the Yankees are done. The Mets are awesome, the Mets are SO awesome and the Yankees are SO horrible! Boo Yankees, Hooray Mets!” It was unbelievably amateurish and obnoxious. On the last day of the season when the Mets were getting the shelled and the the Yankees were headed to the postseason I thought of him.

"We’re not concerned about what other teams think. I know teams come in here thinking we’re playing the Orioles. And then 9 innings later, they got the loss, they know what we’re about." ~Adam Jones

by Stacey on May 21, 2008 7:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

XM uses

the home team feed. At least they have on every game I’ve heard on XM this year.

by duck on May 21, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

No it's not an announcer

It’s a guy who does one of the shows on XM 175. He doesn’t call games. I don’t think he’s a regular, he usually subs for Ronnie Lane.

by Stacey on May 21, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's was a talk show, not a game

I think it was Chris Russell. And yeah, his fanboyism was just so over the top. He kept acknowledging his home team bias but he stressed that it was possible to come up with a fair argument for Piazza as a Mets HOF inductee. Thus he kept pointing to the number of years Piazza played for the Mets and the fact that he made it to the WS with the Mets, but not the Dodgers. I’ll admit the WS thing really annoyed me, which probably partially motivated my call. After I ponited out that Clemens is using the same argument to go in as a Yankee, he then proceeded to take some jabs at me about my Oriole fandom, but the other dude was nice.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 21, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Got it

by duck on May 21, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don't really see

How the Yankees could make a legit claim at Moose going in as a New Yorker. Mussina had five all star seasons, all in Baltimore. Seven Cy Young top six finishes, one in New York. He had two 19 win seasons in Baltimore along with two 18 win campaigns, the highest win total he achieved in New York was 17, once. I think that if he were to get one twenty win season in his career, which would be this year or maybe next, he would be a hall of famer, if not I am not so sure.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on May 21, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Moose

Right now, I don’t think Moose will go in. He was having a good season until last night. If he could finish out this season with a strong performance along with another 1 or 2 strong season, he could finish kind of close to 300 wins (he’s at 256 now). But given his age, I don’t think this is likely.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 21, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Some people like to point out

That he was clean, as far as we know, in a very dirty era. Aside from that he has a .634 winning percentage which I believe is something like top 30 or 35 all time. His career K/BB is 3.5 which is absurd and he was the O’s all time leader in strikeouts until last season. His career ERA is 3.71, it isn’t his fault he hasn’t won 300 and never will, and he went 19-1 in ‘95 for the birds. I think that if he gets to 20 this year, which would be somewhat unlikely and ironic, he will get into the hall. I don’t think he will be a hall of famer but he should get in eventually and hopefully it is with the O’s.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on May 21, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Edit: I don't think he will be a first ballot hall of famer

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on May 21, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

I just don't see this as a problem he's gonna have

Mike Mussina, member, Hall of the Very Good.

Hall of Fame? No way.

by duck on May 21, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

no offense

But I HATE that idea. “Hall of Very Good.” But mostly I guess I hate it because too often idiots use it to condemn the chances of deserving players. So I guess you really wouldn’t take offense to that at all.

As for Mussina…

He should be in the Hall of Fame. He really should. He’s every single bit qualified. He is mildly borderline, but I would vote for him. But Bert Blyleven should’ve been in years ago and the moron sportswriters have yet to figure that out because they have absurd ideas of what “dominance” or whatever really is. Blyleven was a dominant pitcher; Mussina was, too. They have similar sheets, really, if you adjust for era on the innings pitched and stuff.

And he has a far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far better Hall of Fame case than Jack Morris will ever have.

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 22, 2008 5:35 AM EDT up 0 recs

Name a season

where Mike Mussina was the best pitcher in the league. Okay, now name another.

When I think Hall of Fame, I think guys who were head and shoulders better than anyone who’s playing. Maybe I set the bar too high – Jack Morris wouldn’t get a sniff if I was a voter – and Bert Blyleven wouldn’t have got in, either.

I never thought of Mussina as a Hall of Famer – someone whose deeds were so much better than had come before that people will know his name in decades to come.

Jim Rice? Forget it. Albert Belle? Nope. Robby Alomar? MAYBE. Mike Mussina? Nope.

I do think Mike Mussina has been very, very good for a long time. But he’s never been THAT GUY. Of all the active pitchers, honestly, the only one I put put it if he retired right now is Greg Maddux.

by duck on May 22, 2008 6:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

...what

Tom Glavine? Pedro Martinez? Randy freakin Johnson?

by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 22, 2008 7:11 AM EDT up 0 recs

No, no and maybe

Maybe I just set too high a standard. But when I think Hall of Fame, I think Walter Johnson and Babe Ruth, not Jim Rice or Tom Glavine.

by duck on May 22, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

If

Tom Glavine and Pedro Martinez are not in the HOF, and Randy Johnson is a “maybe,” then say goodbye to, um, pretty much every Oriole HOFer except half of Frank Robinson.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 22, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

duck's a small tent guy

There’s nothing wrong with that as long as you’re consistent.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 22, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Kinda like a strike zone, yes?

by duck on May 22, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

That and

a detachment from reality. It would entail kicking a whole hell of a lot of people out of the HOF, including (one would assume) Cal Ripken, Jim Palmer, Brooks Robinson and Eddie Murray.

by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 22, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

well, yes,

being a small tent guy means kicking out people. People will bitch about the people you kick out but that happens now.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 22, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

you are insane

Tom Glavine, Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson are three of the best pitchers to ever live. Pedro has a great Sandy Koufax-type case. Better case than Koufax, really, but I know Koufax is from olden days so I don’t want to push that one too far lest anyone have a heart attack.

“When I think Hall of Fame, I think really old people, not people whose flaws I ever got to see.”

What are you, Skip Bayless? The standard for the Hall of Fame is not and has never been Walter Johnson or Babe Ruth. Eddie Murray, frankly, doesn’t really have the numbers to hold a lighter up to a Babe Ruth fart, but if you want to tell me he’s not a Hall of Famer, then super duper.

If you are comparing people only to arguably the greatest pitcher and greatest hitter ever, then everyone else fails. That is a very poor way to judge anything.

It’s not about being the best pitcher in the league in any season, for God’s sake. Mussina was among the very best for MANY seasons. He has an excellent career resume. I don’t want to hear a thing about his lack of Cy Young awards or 20-win seasons. Steve Stone won 25 games for the love of God.

Robbie Alomar is among the best second basemen of all time.

Rice and Belle fall short, I agree.

To think “Hall of Fame” equates to “guys who were head and shoulders better than anyone who’s playing” would take out so many players. Ty Cobb played in the same era as Babe Ruth, so I guess Cobb is out, and Gehrig’s case is no good either. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Frank Robinson were contemporaries—PICK ONE. There can’t be a Ted Williams AND a Joe DiMaggio.

This is just a terrible, terrible argument. I don’t even have enough words. Thank God you don’t have a Hall of Fame vote, because you would rival the worst of the worst, the guys who throw Jim Deshaies a vote and never even consider someone like Lou Whitaker, because he didn’t “dominate the game” in the minds of … somebody. (For the record, I’m not saying Lou Whitaker should or shouldn’t be in, but there’s another borderline guy who got no talk whatsoever, while the moron sportswriters pre-controversy spent time wondering whether or not RAFAEL PALMEIRO deserved to be in with 3,000 hits and 500 homers.)

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 22, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

rec this thread up if y'all want to keep this convo on the front page, too

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 22, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah I always found the

Pre-Steroid Raffy argument funny. People were asking questions like, does 3000 hits and/or 500 homers get you in anymore?

I wonder who Alomar would go in as if he were to be inducted, a Blue jay or and Indian, I don’t remember who he had better stats with but I am pretty sure he played a lot longer with Toronto and won some rings there.

by Go O's!! on May 22, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

It just posed my comment as Go O's!!

Now that is weird.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on May 22, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up 0 recs