Off Topic: Overrated Active Baseball Players

off the top of my head...

derek jeter (for some reason people insist he can play defense)
barry zito (i dont know if he’s still really “rated” at all though)
andruw jones (ditto)
jason varitek
david eckstein
richie sexson
trevor hoffman
dontrelle willis
eric byrnes
brandon phillips
carlos beltran

thats just my personal opinion without looking up stats or anything. also, i’m not saying some of these players arent good, just way over-hyped. there are a good number of players here i wouldnt mind the O’s having, but thats not to say they’ve earned their reputations.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on May 27, 2008 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks

Jeter, Varitek and Sexson were on my list. Byrnes is a good one. I kind of think that Jones and Zito are too pathetic and hated by their team’s fans to count. Kind of why I’m not putting Gagne on the list.

Thanks for the suggestions.

by brooklynlovesorioles on May 27, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i didnt even bother with gagne

it was in my head, but then i realized that when i thought of him, he wasnt wearing a dodgers uni, which means he was horrible

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on May 27, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrnes shouldn't be there

He covers so much ground and is part of the best defensive outfield in baseball.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on May 30, 2008 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and isn't a hitter

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 30, 2008 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jose Reyes

By a mile.

A low on-base percentage leadoff hitter whose biggest asset is his base-stealing ability.

I predict that his career will coast on the hype from his 2006 season for at least a decade in New York and that wasn’t even that great of a season. By my half-assed, 30 second comparison Derek Jeter played as well or better nine times in his career than Reyes did in 2006, which is the best season of Reyes career.

Right now Met fans are in a later looking for an explanation for why Reyes isn’t playing better. They’re looking at every explanation except the one that is staring them in the face: he isn’t good enough to play better.

by yurizanow on May 27, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was thinking reyes too

like you, i live in the NYC area and i hear it all the time. i didnt pick reyes though based soley on the fact that he has the talent to be great and he’s still young. he’s definitely overrated as a player right now, but he can definitely acheive what people think he can if (big if) he puts it together.

Jeter, no matter how much people believe it to be so, is not God. Hence, he is overrated.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on May 27, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what I'm talking about though

Mets fans are like “when Reyes goes into the Hall . . .”

It ain’t gonna happen. He has no plate discipline and hasn’t show any signs that he’ll get it. When Jeter was his age he was already established as a better player, not someone who has the potential to become a better player.

If Reyes played for the Pirates, you wouldn’t even know his name.

by yurizanow on May 27, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm

Why is this off-topic? About baseball. Bashes Yankees. Refers to Byrnesy, a former Camden denizen.

Have I not understood the topic all along?

Ronnie's OK, McCarver's the dillweed

by 33 on May 27, 2008 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

FYI

Jayson Stark recently did a column on this topic.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2880887

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

“When people battle me on this guy, I always sum it up this way: As great as Bobby Abreu can be, he lacks that all-important Derek Jeter gene. There is no voice in his head, screaming: “This ball has to be caught.” Or: “That runner on third has to be driven in.” In Philadelphia, where he was the centerpiece of the franchise, that one flaw showed up way too glaringly. Now, in New York, as the Yankees flounder, they’re getting aggravated over the same stuff. Funny how that happens.”

He’s so right. Totally great stuff.

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 27, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Capt Jetes is gritty!

Actually, Jayson Stark is a bit overrated. The problem with writing an “overrated players” column is that people will come up with different standards in defining “normal” or “average”. Stark’s analysis aren’t usually good but I love Stark’s Rumblings column. He’s really well connected and tends to have interesting rumors. Plus, he tends to leave out his own analysis and reports other people’s opinions.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah...

it’s kind of funny that he starts off in the zito entry by saying that high salary is not necessarily equated w/ being overrated, but that seems to be the chief indicator, in my book. his list is sort of old news, i think.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 27, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"This ball has to be dropped."

Or: "That runner on third has to be left standing"

"You don’t have to be a rocket science" – Jim Palmer.

by CoachOfEarl on May 29, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot all about Juan Pierre

It’s hard to be as overrated as he is/was.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on May 27, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure if anyone else would agree

But I’d put Ichiro Suzuki on the list. Suppose to be an elite lead off man, but has only managed to put up a 400+ OBP once in his career.

Josh Beckett should probably be on the list; only seems to pitch in odd number years or during hte playoffs.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on May 27, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ichiro has a career .378 OBP. This is well above average. It is in fact pretty f’n good. He is an elite leadoff man, because there aren’t as many as you think that put up .400 OBPs.

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on May 27, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is pretty good; but unless he’s putting up a very good SLG%; I don’t think you should be considered an elite player.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on May 27, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His lack of power is less of liability now that he's a CF.

When he played RF, I think the “overrated” argument makes a little more sense. He is a good lead off man but corner OF spots are typically reserved for power guys (not that I wouldn’t want Ichiro as my RF the last 4-5 years).

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do a lead-off man

have to post high SLG numbers to be considered elite? The job is to get on base as many times as possible to set up others to drive you in. Obviously, if he’s doing that with doubles, so much the better, and I like a leadoff HR as much as anyone, but isn’t judging a lead-off man by power numbers kinda like judging a clean-up hitter on OBP?

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on May 27, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Suzuki

Do a lead-off man have to post high SLG numbers to be considered elite?

In order to be considered an elite lead off man, I don’t think so. OBP is more important. To be considered an elite RF, a separate role, I think you have to consider power numbers. Ichiro has been a great lead off man but I think you can make the case that he’s an overrated RF.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So we're agreed

his numbers are pretty darned good for a leadoff guy who’s in CF, yes?

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on May 27, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure for CF

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm surprised no one has mentioned speed...

If anyone thought he was slowing down as he was getting older… get this:

22 SBs, 2 CS this year.

The guy also has a gun for an arm.

by Y Not on May 28, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The stats geeks do not agree about his gun

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/cannons-and-popguns-rating-outfield-arms/

From 05, when Itchiro still played RF, they found him to be league average.

"You don’t have to be a rocket science" – Jim Palmer.

by CoachOfEarl on May 29, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about...

michael young? vernon wells? jeff francouer (is he too young to be overrated, yet?)?

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 27, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Adam Lowen

"Whether your name is Gehrig or Ripken, DiMaggio or Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That's all I've ever tried to do."

by spike2131 on May 27, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

don't you have to first be rated in order to be overrated?

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 27, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's overrated by the O's organization

Maybe we could trade him for some bats.

"Whether your name is Gehrig or Ripken, DiMaggio or Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That's all I've ever tried to do."

by spike2131 on May 27, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, ive heard enough. i'm making my stand.

i think, for some unknown reason, that loewen will someday be good. 2nd or 3rd guy good. i just think we’ve jumped on him way too early. he shouldnt have sniffed the majors as early as he did, and he’s paying for it now.

in a year or two, i want to own the loewen rights to the loewen bowl. i’m staking my claim right now.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on May 27, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Loewen

i think, for some unknown reason, that loewen will someday be good. 2nd or 3rd guy good.

I have a good reason for why Loewen could be good in the future. He’s been good in the minors! He was always younger than the competition and he either held his own or did well. The main problem with Loewen isn’t ability, it’s injuries. The guy has pitched 161 innings in the big leagues with ERA+ 85. Not every pitcher is great from from the first start on wards. Provided that the guy can stay healthy, and that’s starting to become iffy, let’s allow the guy to develop a bit before tossing him aside.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

again...

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 27, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Donald Rumsfield!

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on May 27, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

coincidentally...

one of the most overrated secretaries of defense.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 27, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not like the very underrated Leslie Aspin, Jr.

by Chanumas on May 27, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

though, in fairness to his raters...

didn’t really last very long.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on May 28, 2008 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The prospects in large market high visibility teams

like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and Cubs are always overrated.

So I’d say
Phil Hughes
Kei Igawa
Phil Humber
Felix Pie

all qualify

by Chanumas on May 27, 2008 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll add a few

Jacoby Ellsbury, not the superstar that Sox fan’s that I know think he is/will be.
Joba Chamberlain, just because he can get people out in the pen doesn’t mean he will be an ace. Good young player, but not a proven savior, yet.
Torri Hunter, not the best defensive CF just b/c he makes web gems, but still a good player, just not a superstar.
Adrian Beltre, busted on the scene with 48 HR’s but hasn’t had more than 26 since. Good player just not a complete stud.
Travis Hafner, what in the world happened?
Delmon Young, I just dont think he will ever turn out to be more than an average payer.

Ditto on what Chanumas said about prospects in large market teams (but i would like to add that only the top prospects get overrated).

And to stir things up

Brian Roberts, man I love this guy, but he always seems to wear down after the All-Star break and hes not the superman i wish he could be.

by Reddrummer9187 on May 28, 2008 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And i gave guys such as Juan Pierre, Barry Zito, Andruw Jones, and JD Drew a break b/c they get so much hate from other people that its ridiculous.

by Reddrummer9187 on May 28, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's telling me "page not found"

"We’re not concerned about what other teams think. I know teams come in here thinking we’re playing the Orioles. And then 9 innings later, they got the loss, they know what we’re about." ~Adam Jones

by Stacey on May 30, 2008 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs