A's 2, O's 1: We're terrible
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I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I'm sure. It's one thing to come into this season with low expectations, and knowing the team is going to compete for Worst Team in Baseball, and knowing how rocky and downright bad it's going to be, but it's another thing to actually sit and watch it happen.
The O's came out for 2008 with another surprisingly fast start, ending April in contention. We're a week into May, 16-16, and now we're in fourth place. And brothers and sisters, it's only going to get worse.
We're a half-game up on Toronto, and the Jays are riding a five-game win streak. It's only a matter of time before we get settled in the cellar.
I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic. Think about some of the guys starting for this team. Luis Hernandez and his .542 OPS, weak arm, and frequent boneheaded baserunning mistakes. Ramon Hernandez and his .581 OPS, detrimental alleged defense behind the plate, and frequent boneheaded baserunning mistakes. Luke Scott (.778 and nosediving) and Jay Payton (.642 and steady) are in a left field platoon.
Our starting first baseman is OPSing .672. Nick Markakis is in a massive slump right now. Our number three hitter is Melvin Mora -- .729 OPS.
This offense is offensive.
And it kind of makes you feel bad for a starting pitching crew that is performing a lot better than most would have expected. Jeremy Guthrie (4.06/1.24) is doing his thing again. Daniel Cabrera (4.06/1.35) seems to have found a balance between power pitching and trusting his stuff enough to let people try to hit it. Brian Burres (2.87/1.28) has been terrific. Garrett Olson (2.08/1.08) has been great in two starts since being called up. Steve Trachsel is a waste of time, so let's not even bother talking about him right now.
The bullpen has been a little inconsistent, but they've held their own for the most part. There's not much more you could ask of this pitching staff than what they've given us, to be totally fair.
And then there's the boneheaded baserunning and fielding and other assorted screwery. It's hard to watch a team make so many fundamental little mistakes that wind up costing them games. The A's had no business winning last night. They shouldn't have scored a run.
But then the Orioles shouldn't be making two outs on every hit-and-run they attempt and gloriously fail to execute. The Orioles shouldn't run into so many outs. But Dave has them running, despite their constant presentation of evidence that they don't know how to run the bases. Roberts is a fantastic baserunner. Markakis is a really good, savvy baserunner, last night's boner notwithstanding. But guys like Luis and Adam Jones, while they have speed, aren't good baserunners. It's one of the few times I'll go out of my way to praise Derek Jeter, but that guy is a magnificent baserunner. It's not just speed, and we all know that. Markakis isn't terribly fast, but, like Jeter, he has good instincts and rarely screws himself over.
And it's not just on the bases. It's in the field, too. Melvin Mora, God bless him, makes more idiotic mistakes than anyone I can think of. He also makes a lot of highlight reel plays. His tendency to look to get a glory out and wind up getting nobody out is a little high. Luis Hernandez? I can't really blame him. He's not really a Major League shortstop. He does not have the arm for the position.
I'm not mad about them being bad, and I'm not upset about it, and it doesn't depress me or anything. But it's hard to watch a team so bad on so many levels. They try hard, there's a lot of moxy, and there's plenty of grit. They've got some gamers. That's super.
They stink, though. We all knew they would.
(And Aubrey Huff has been fine.)
1 recs |
48 comments
Comments
You should amend this title to our OFFENSE is terrible
We all know that the great sucking sound you hear at 10:00 pm is the Orioles playing in Oakland, but don’t then compliment 4/5 of our starting pitching and say our bullpen is improved. Those points don’t go to the “we suck donkey balls” argument.
We knew that our infield was getting blown up (Roberts yet to be traded), but our outfield would be better than last year. I still think the outfield is better this season because even though the hitting hasn’t come around yet, the guys are younger and WAY better defensively.
So now it’s our INFIELD and catcher sucks. Well, I’ll take it. Last year everyone sucked. This team is fun to watch when they aren’t looking like the bad news bears. I am still excited about seeing these pitchers and outfield grow up and then blowing this infield up in a month. That could be fun.
by Birdland in NC on May 6, 2008 8:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah man..
I’m praying that our pitching isn’t a fluke.
I like Burres a lot (he actually pitched decently last year, minus the 30-3 game…), but I find it hard to believe he can keep on pitching like this. On the other hand, his pitch selection, location, and changing speeds has made him very effective.
The other guys – we all know the story. Hope they keep it up!
Oh yeah, and F our offense. Major leaguers who are consistently unable to score a runner on 3rd base with less than 2 outs have no business holding taking a roster spot. Happens a little bit too often on our team/
by Y Not on May 6, 2008 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does anyone know...
if kranwich has a specific pitch that he advocates or if his thing is just the sensei “work w/in your style” philosophy of coaching arms?
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on May 6, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems to be the latter
Cabrera’s a fastball pitcher, he has him throwing fastballs. Burres works well using his curve as an out pitch, so he’s doing that. Sarfate has gas, so throw your heat, stupid.
by SC on May 6, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitching is improved, but this is still a bad team.
The pitching has been better than expected, or at least better than I expected. That’s good to see. The bats are horrible and the talk about playing solid fundamental baseball seems to have been mostly that – talk.
This is year eleven of the futility. There has finally been an acknowledgment of the fact that this franchise has been horrible. Let’s hope it continues. The big deals have been made. There are no more Bedards to sell. It’s a multi-year struggle from here on out to find and groom some decent players in the field before the O’s wind up on the positive side of .500 ball. They are improving, but they’ll still wind up at the bottom of the division and with a high draft pick. They’ll be in that position because of the talent they field.
by drj on May 6, 2008 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
second time in two days i'm saying this...
but in the words of denny green, “they are who we thought they were.”
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on May 6, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why I don't like Dave Trembley
He has no offense whatsoever. That’s not his fault. He didn’t put the roster together, draft players, run the minor leagues, make trades; he’s forced to deal with the players he has available and try to produce some runs. Fine.
Since that is the case, why is he using so many low-percentage plays to try and do so? Study after study shows that unless you have Rickey Henderson or Tim Raines on the bases the best plan is to stay put and wait for somebody to knock you in. Furthermore, it is almost never a good idea to do things like sacrifice bunts, hit and runs, and other out-producing plays that work infrequently and produce only one out when they do.
Look at the team across the field in the other dugout. The A’s have won a ton of games with less money than the Orioles by being patient, getting on base, and staying there until the hitter gives the guy a reason to move. They don’t waste their time and outs with bunts, steals, hit and runs, and other dumbshit National League crap and it pays off.
Just like it used to for the Baltimore Orioles.
by yurizanow on May 6, 2008 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I pretty much agree with that
All this “aggressive running” BS is costing us outs and maybe a win here or there. Diamond Dave needs to f’ing cool it. If your name isn’t Roberts, stay the f on base…and maybe even B-Rob needs fewer greenlights.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on May 6, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"dumbshit National League crap"
Nicely phrased. Newsflash for Bud: the whole league is crap.
And I wish Dave would fine a few people for baserunning indifference.
Rah Rah Rasputin / Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that / Really loved Birds. -- Boney M
by Titov on May 6, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh?
“It may be a part of what’s going on in the major leagues now, with guys when they hit it, somewhat styling it when they hit it,” Trembley said. “That may be the norm with what happens for the most part in the big leagues now. But it’s not acceptable with me; it’s not acceptable with what we’re trying to do or the direction we’re trying to go. I told Ramon that. He fully understands where I’m coming from.”
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on May 6, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave, he might *really* "fully understand where [you're] coming from" if
his wallet were lighter.
Rah Rah Rasputin / Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that / Really loved Birds. -- Boney M
by Titov on May 7, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the As are built around slow, power hitters
The Orioles are not. The Orioles have light hitting, fast guys. They should have the speed to pull off the small ball, even if they do fuck it up on a regular basis. I don’t mind seeing Adam Jones take a lot of risks on the base paths this year, because I assume that he’ll get better at it, and that, at some point, he’ll be stealing at the level of a Nick Markakis, if not a Brian Roberts.
But its not like they really have the option of standing on the basis and waiting for someone to drive them in. Nobody drives shit on this team. They are making the best of what they have. Which, regrettably, isn’t much.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
by spike2131 on May 6, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've come to the conclusion
we’re basically a NL team. No true power hitter, reliance on situation running, overuse of sacrfices due to one or more lineup positions totally bereft of power. We’re the AL equivilent of the Pirates, with a better pitching staff.
"If you're a fantasy baseball player, don't pick anybody from the Orioles. ... Nobody is going to pop your eyes out. But if you're in the American League East, bring your lunch, because you're going to need it." - Kevin Millar
by duck on May 6, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should be able to use that to our advantage
If we can play differently from all the other teams in the league, then other teams won’t know how to play against us.
As long as our pitchers can hold up their end, I don’t think that becoming the best team in the league at small-ball is a bad strategy. Right now, the problem is that we are not that good at small ball, as the past week of base-running blunders can attest. We need to be better at it than we are.
Still, I think there is a lot of potential there, and I personally find small-ball to be pretty fun to watch – certainly more so than waiting around for someone to hit a home run.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
by spike2131 on May 6, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
If we can play differently from all the other teams in the league, then other teams won’t know how to play against us
this won’t work. Once you get past middle school, teams scout. All of them. It wouldn’t take real long to find out what the O’s do – just fire up the DVR. MLB teams hire advance scouts for a reason. We don’t sneak up on anybody with this. Did you see the way the Angels ran on Cabrera? Because the book’s out—>
D Cabs pitching + Razor catching = guaranteed stolen base
And they took full advantage. There’s no sneaking up on anyone in the MLB with a quirky strategy. Maybe in 1930, but not now.
You can win playing smallball, but not with STUPID baserunning, which seems to be epidemic right now with this team.
"If you're a fantasy baseball player, don't pick anybody from the Orioles. ... Nobody is going to pop your eyes out. But if you're in the American League East, bring your lunch, because you're going to need it." - Kevin Millar
by duck on May 6, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:We need to be better at it than we are
Just a little poke here, but, thank you Captain Obvious…
we to be better at BASEBALL than we are.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think small ball really works regardless of the team
When doesn’t score a lot of runs, their outs become even more precious than they would for a power team because the number of runs they can expect to score are so low. If that is the case, why on earth would a team ever do anything that risks an out or (even worse) is designed to produce one?
The basic mistake that a lot of people make is the idea that it’s worth sacrificing an out or risking an out in order to move a guy one base over. That gets it all wrong. Check out the run matrix at the link below. It’s pretty obvious that the number of outs has a lot more outcome than the base that a guy is on. A guy on first with one out is more likely to score than a guy on second or third with two. Hell, a guy on first with no outs is almost more likely to score than a guy on third with one. Apparently that’s news to Dave Trembley who manages like the Orioles have more than 27 outs every game.
by yurizanow on May 6, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that is the case, why on earth would a team ever do anything that risks an out or (even worse) is designed to produce one?
First, because if we didn’t take risks, we would never score any runs at all. We don’t have the power. We need to be aggressive because thats all we have.
Second, I think its an overstatement to say that we make plays “designed to produce an out.” Yes, we bunt a lot – but when Mora bunts, he’s not bunting for the sacrifice. He’s bunting to get on base. And a lot of the time he does. And when he doesn’t get on base, it winds up being a sacrifice – which isn’t bad as a second-best outcome. I’d rather he did that than swing for the fences and pop out every time.
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
by spike2131 on May 6, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a lot of the time he does?
How about, “occasionally” he does?
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably 30% of his hits come off of bunts
And no, I don’t have any numbers to back that up….
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
by spike2131 on May 6, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
using the only hit chart I could find...
at Fox Sports, I come up with either 3/33 hits, 4/33 hits, or 5/33 hits as bunt base hits. The discrepancy arrives when trying to decipher US. Cellular Field’s infield hits. So according to that, at most 16% of his hits come via the bunt.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers
According to baseball reference, Mora ended his plate appearance with a bunt 5 times this year.
Out of those 5 times, 2 times he was credited with a sacrifice, and 3 times he was credited with a hit.
In Mora’s career, he has completed 163 plate appaerances with a bunt:
71 singles
46 sacrifices
4 foul bunts for a strikeout
42 non-sacrifice outs
I don’t know how that stacks up to the average player, but those look like pretty good numbers to me. 44% of the time he gets a hit, and 28% of the time he at least moves a runner over.
As much as I hate to admit it, Mora should probably keep bunting when he thinks he can get a base hit.
by dkdc on May 6, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better then thought
Even though were doing bad now, playing closer then I thought we would
by Michael18 on May 6, 2008 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do the batters we have simply suck...
or does the “hitting instructor” (batting coach, or whatever else you want to call him)?
I realize that we have no A-Rods or even any Tejedas on this team now, but why can’t they fucking hit it out of the infield? At some point, the entire team became slap hitters, bunters, etc.
I’m venting, of course, because it upsets me that such good pitching goes to waste. But the suckitude with the lumber has to be laid at the Crow’s feet. Sorry, for the bad pun.
by Lothar on May 6, 2008 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
btw...
shouldn’t the subcommittee be regulating who gets denoted a GOD? You can’t just be throwing that around willy-nilly, you know. They’re really slacking over there.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
couple a' more tings...
I can’t believe there wasn’t ONE, NOT ONE, subcommittee reference in last night’s thread. I’m very disappointed in you guys.
Also,
If you look at the lineups, you’ll notice Emil Brown, case in point that runs batted in mean F-all.,
SC, I hold you personally responsible for last night’s debacle. Do I sound like I care if you weren’t the one who didn’t cover first base quickly enough late in the game, or that you weren’t the one who couldn’t get a single run in with runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, or that you weren’t one of the ones who was PO, CS, or some other form of boneheaded out producing? I don’t think so… this is mos’def’ YOUR fault.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, the O's got debacled?
"If you're a fantasy baseball player, don't pick anybody from the Orioles. ... Nobody is going to pop your eyes out. But if you're in the American League East, bring your lunch, because you're going to need it." - Kevin Millar
by duck on May 6, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No we are in trhe rebuilding stage
Sometimes we play bad,sometimes we play over our head,that is where we are at.
I,m convinced we will play better as we go along.Changes will be made along
the way.I dont think its time to judge them severely,being patient is hard after ten
yrs.We lost Adam Loewen& luke Scott has been sick & in a slump.Things
are happening that are out of our control but that worm will turn..
by hagers on May 6, 2008 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm curious - how long will it take to turn?
I expect years before the team is competent. The O’s will need to deal some young arms to fill the infield. Maybe a Roberts trade will bring one decent player. I expect they’ll pick some college players in the draft. It will take several years for this to come together. Maybe 2011 or 2012? The O’s might be on the fringes of historical ineptitude, assuming the Pirates don’t blow past the 16 year mark.
by drj on May 6, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of us here (I don’t mean to speak for anyone else) think the Orioles are finally, after many years, pursuing the correct strategy of rebuilding through younger players.
I support this, and I want to be patient in hopes that they can get it right and this team can content again (I certainly don’t expect it this year), but it’s not going to be very fun to watch for a couple years. (Not like the last 10 have been a blast)
Why the Hell Not?
by BrianS on May 6, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
position players on the field last night that MIGHT contribute to a winning team in Baltimore:
in order of most likely being on the next winning O’s team:
1) Adam Jones
2) Nick Markakis
3) nobody else
THAT’S how long it will take for this team to be competitive.
THIS is Birdland?!?
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on May 6, 2008 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If that's how long it's gonna take,
you might as well take Kickass off that list, I suspect he’ll get tired of playing in shit.
Improving the ballclub: Not one of Peter Angelos' concerns.-SC Wed Jan 30, 2008
by dayzd toe on May 6, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't really have a choice...
they could have a winning team in the next couple years. contender’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish.
if you’re just saying “might,” luke scott and brian roberts “might” also be ont he next winning team. not too likely, but possible.
ronnie's a dillweed.
by j.q. higgins on May 6, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roberts and Scott
As good as gone. Scott has no place once Reimold gets his act together. Roberts is too valuable as trade bait.
by PWubbs on May 6, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if Reimold doesn't get his act together?
MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC MAGIC
by spike2131 on May 6, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why Markakis is listed second
seriously though, MacPhail’s done a good job stock-piling arms so far. but save for Wieters and MAYBE Reimold (although that jury has been deliberating for awhile now), this organization is still bereft of offensive talent—all the way down.
the current middle infield situation is simply the exclamation point to all this. it is CRITICAL that the O’s next wave of prospect-mongering include some middle infield talent.
THIS is Birdland?!?
by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on May 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Scott will see the day.
Provided he starts hitting again, that is.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on May 6, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#2
The sad thing is that he’s a free agent in 3 years. Unless the O’s sign him to an extension this offseason, he might be around when our young pitchers start to become really good (if ever). I still say trade Cabs if he keeps up his good performance. The O’s can always resign when he’s a free agent. And we desparately need position players.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
by birdman on May 6, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Markakis..
I think has 3 years after this one before free agency - if MacPhail’s rebuilding program is going anywhere, hopefully we’ll have a team worth staying on by then. But, yeah, hard to imagine any of the other position players being around - for one thing they pretty much all need to be replaced before there’s a good team anyway, and most of them are pretty long in the tooth.
"Killing a Yankee fan -- is that illegal in this state?" -- Homicide Life on the Street
by BirdFanLA on May 6, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Destined to be Gone
These players are destined to not be an Oriole within the next 2 years:
Pitchers:
Trachsel, Sherrill, Bradford, Walker
Players:
Ramon, Millar, Huff, Roberts, Mora, Scott, Payton
All of these guys are going to go by way of free agency, trade, or outright released. Basically, 78% of our starting line-up, one starting pitcher, and the back-end of our bullpen. Only the back-end of our bullpen is actually producing and that’s only because of Sherrill. Bradford and Walker have been utter disappointments this year in my book. They never get the job done when we need them.
by PWubbs on May 6, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Only sorta true
“Bradford and Walker have been utter disappointments this year in my book.”
Yea, Walker’s made a few bad pitches this year, but Bradford’s 2-1 with 8 K and 1 BB. Only 2 runs allowed all year. And weren’t the commentators saying something about him being second in the league in runners stranded? Dude’s been good this year.
by crippz on May 6, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's remember...
We all knew this was a rebuilding year, the start of a process. Everyone expected from the beginning that this was going to be a terrible 100 loss club. I’m thinking they actually might be better than that, maybe at least a little better than last year, but still a poor team. Everybody got all excited about the fast start—me included mainly because it was fun to deny reality for a little while.
"Killing a Yankee fan -- is that illegal in this state?" -- Homicide Life on the Street
by BirdFanLA on May 6, 2008 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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