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The Crow Must Go...Now More Than Ever

What on God's Green Earth is it going to take to convince the Orioles front office that Terry Crowley should have packed his bags and stopped pretending to be a Hitting Coach years ago?  How about these numbers:

 

O'S TEAM STAT     RANKING AMONGST MLB CLUBS

AVG   .246               27th                       

OBP   .317              25th

SLG   .392               20th

RUNS    227            25th

2B         87                25th

The outlier amongst the offensive stats is HRs where we're 12th in MLB and, astonishingly, 4th in the AL.  Although what this tells me with our crappy OBP and Runs stats is that we've got a bunch of jackasses, with (surprise, surprise) no plate discipline, swinging for the fences and hitting solo dongs since nobody can bother to get their ass on base on this team.

So what the fuck is it going to take?  We've known for years now that The Crow's "philosophy" about hitting is basically a mixture of "do whatever the fuck you want" and "be aggressive".  The man has been much more comfortable with a cheerleader pom-pom in his hand than a bat for years on end now.  Can someone in the FO please wake up about this jackass before he fucks up Adam Jones' future in the Major Leagues?

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Amen...

I’ve been meaning to write this post myself for at least a week. Though you threw in much more profanity than I would have used, for which you are to be commended. The most disturbing thing this season has been the regression of Nick Markakis, if you ask me. And he’s the one guy that’s always praising the Crow. Sheesh.

by Brotz13 on Jun 2, 2008 1:26 PM EDT   0 recs

Yes...

he’s lucky to be in fucking baseball!

"Chickens are hard to catch." Jennifer Scott (Luuuuuuuke's Mom)

by dayzd toe on Jun 2, 2008 1:35 PM EDT   0 recs

+1 to Dayzd Toe

What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

by Ghost of Floyd Rayford on Jun 2, 2008 4:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I advise you not to watch today's game.

Guthrie is pitching against Wakefield. The ACE of the red sox staff (with his 4.70 ERA and 1.39 WHIP). The bats are due for a worse snooze fest than they’ve been in.

Anyhow, I find it interesting that the O’s are willing to jettison managers and pitching coaches for lack of on-field performance, and one could easily argue that they had no talent to work with. The O’s cleaned house in the minor leagues. It’s getting to the point where the two constants throughout all the inept baseball we’ve watched for a decade are Angelos and Crowley.

by drj on Jun 2, 2008 1:38 PM EDT   0 recs

What will it take

to get Jim Palmer to quit calling The Crow “good” or “one of the best?” I know he can’t just throw the guy under the bus but he is a little ridiculous. I’m not sure Crowley has ever sniffed mediocre much less good.

I've got two nickels and a paradigm. - RWH

by BPinOK on Jun 2, 2008 1:49 PM EDT   0 recs

This is not a rhetorical question:

Do you think having another hitting coach would make a big difference?

(that being said, I agree, he needs to go)

by Y Not on Jun 2, 2008 3:09 PM EDT   0 recs

Yes

Maybe the Orioles wouldn’t have dramatic improvements in their numbers but with the influx of young guys coming into the organization this year and the next few, teaching them the right way would definitely be beneficial. Not that the Crow isn’t teaching them the fundamentals because us fans don’t know what he is doing, but it obviously isn’t working out. He is one of those guys that everybody is fond of; you can see hitters flocking over to him after many at bats and it is likely that most of them would not vote for him to be ousted even though the production isn’t showing up.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Jun 2, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It probably won't be a hugely dramatic difference.....

....but it’d be worth it for young uns like Adam Jones to have the idea of plate discipline put into them.

by Chanumas on Jun 2, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

psychological difference

also a physiological one.

I mean, cuz I wouldn’t be in danger of having a stroke.

by pipkin on Jun 2, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

also,

I see the Crow more as an enabler of bad batting habits. I don’t think firing the Crow will make a huge difference but he does perpetuate a free swinger mindset that’s damaging.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jun 2, 2008 6:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, but he did his best with Jack Cust.

btw, I just realized that a two game swing in our record versus the Reds in 2004 would have given us Jay Bruce. He was our top choice but the Reds picked just before us so we ended up with Brandon Synder instead.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jun 2, 2008 7:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

when it rains it pours.

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Jun 2, 2008 8:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

HAHA

that’s horrible.

by Y Not on Jun 2, 2008 8:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Frankly, one of the silver linings to the O’s crappiness could be a decent draft pick. Every win bounces them up the draft order.

It seems the organization has learned to value them.

by drj on Jun 2, 2008 8:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Rick Down is available

The Mets fired him last year and replaced him with Rickey Henderson (and then they handed the division to the Phillies).

I always figured a successful pinch hitter would be better at being a hitting coach than Crowley. The Orioles seem to be a team of Rob Deers and completely unable to not swing at a bad pitch.

by yurizanow on Jun 3, 2008 12:03 PM EDT   0 recs

but...
I always figured a successful pinch hitter would be better at being a hitting coach than Crowley.

crow WAS a successful pinch hitter. 11th all time? that’s pretty good.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on Jun 3, 2008 12:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

He meant to say that for someone who was such a good pinch hitter, you would think Crowley would be a better hitting coach. The syntax was a little mixed up.

by Brotz13 on Jun 3, 2008 1:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ah...

that makes sense. i thought the suggestion was rick downs was a really good pinch hitter.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on Jun 3, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

From a fanshot about yesterday's highlights.

Trembley’s new mantra-

That was the plan… let’s work the count and let’s see if we can get ourselves into some good hitting counts… especially early in the game.

AKA-Terry Crowley’s lucky to be in fuckin’ baseball. Don’t listen to that kook anymore, I’m the new hitting coach.

"Chickens are hard to catch." Jennifer Scott (Luuuuuuuke's Mom)

by dayzd toe on Jun 6, 2008 1:04 PM EDT   0 recs

not to be devil's advocate...

but if we’re going to destroy him for the horrible numbers, shouldnt he get some praise for any good ones (such as the o’s being 4th in the AL in HR’s) I’m not saying he’s really any good, but lets give the guy a little credit. I feel bad for him. poor dude.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on Jun 10, 2008 11:16 AM EDT   0 recs

I feel bad for us.

Poor Orioles fans finally get a pitching staff and are forced to watch a team that can’t score runs.

Since this was initially posted, we’re now 24th in Runs Scored, 25th in OBP and 10th in HRs in MLB. So again what this tells me is that Crowley’s hands off/”aggressive” “philosophy is manifesting itself in our offensive performance as a team that cannot get On Base to get knocked in by the Big Blow.

by Jonny Pops on Jun 10, 2008 11:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i hear ya

but look at this team. are they performing THAT much below their potential? this isnt exactly murderers row. no one thought we were going to score runs before the season even started. thats just coming to fruition.

Again, i’m not defending crowley, but its not like this team would be an offensive juggernaut with another hitting coach.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on Jun 10, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the crow
but its not like this team would be an offensive juggernaut with another hitting coach.

That’s true but the Crow preaches a free swinger mentality. That’s what bugs me.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jun 10, 2008 2:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well

i guess thats the reason for the shit poor averages and the suprising amount of homers. good with the bad, ya know?

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on Jun 10, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but

it’s not good. it’s just bad. homers don’t matter if you’re not scoring enough runs with them. it’s like the guy who hits .300 and walks zero times. that guy sucks as a player, despite the misleading average.

by Jonny Pops on Jun 10, 2008 4:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i know i know i know

like i said, i’m not saying he’s great, i’m just trying to give the guy credit for SOMETHING. everyone bashes him for everything. thats just one part of the offense i’m impressed with and i like to give credit in the rare instance that its due. thats all. i know that the byproduct of that is that we have no men on base for them to knock in with the homers so its pointless, but its still a surprising stat.

"Don't worry, the fans don't start booing until July." - Earl Weaver

by daveh873 on Jun 10, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

3 run homers...

require two men on base. And we ain’t getting that very often, as Jonny Pops says.

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on Jun 10, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah fuck Terry Crowley....

he needs to be banned from the Majors

Geaux Eaux's

by NawlinsOriole on Jun 11, 2008 12:11 AM EDT   0 recs

The last line of JP's post is the most imprtant. I'll say it again: Adam Jones needs Terry Crowley like

Custer needed more Indians. Er, Native Americans.

Rah Rah Rasputin / Lover of the Russian queen
There was a cat that / Really loved Birds. -- Boney M

by Titov on Jun 11, 2008 12:59 PM EDT   0 recs

nick markakis just stated that he credits his success to terry crowley

no kiddin.

Markakis can attribute his success against left-handers to his approach and willingness to make adjustments. He credits hitting coach Terry Crowley for much of his offensive success, and Crowley notes Markakis’ work ethic is among the best he’s seen.

by Y Not on Jun 14, 2008 8:22 AM EDT   0 recs

Yeah

Markakis has been a pretty die hard defender of Crowley’s since he’s been with the team. I imagine that’s part of why they keep the old guy around. Unfortunately for The Crow though, Markakis’ success with the O’s would seem to have a hell of a lot more to do with natural ability when one takes a look at his Minor League numbers and then at the amount of Major League league success the rest of the Orioles hitters have enjoyed under Crowley’s tutelage.

by Jonny Pops on Jun 14, 2008 2:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So let me understand

Our team is, by and large, a completely awful offensive team. Ok. One could argue that this is because our 3-4-5 hitters are Melvin Mora, Kevin Millar, and Aubrey Huff – who are all aging and mediocre at this point – and Ramon Hernandez and Freddie Bynum are also in the lineup like everyday. Fine, and you counter that the Crow might be hurting their chances at being good hitters, and at least he certainly isn’t helping, so he should go.

But now, when someone says “What about Nick, he’s a great hitter and credits the Crow religiously” you say that’s because he would be a good hitter regardless of hitting coach. So, the bad hitters can only be bad hitters with a bad hitting coach, but the good hitters don’t require a hitting coach at all? So the players’ individual talent only matters if it helps your arguement? I don’t understand.

I’d argue that Crowley should go because the results aren’t there, but then again the only guys he’s really coached all the way have been Roberts and Nicky, who are our two best hitters. And AJ is basically his, and he’s starting to come along, too.

by elk on Jun 14, 2008 6:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My argument

is simply that Markakis has always been a good hitter and had consistently shown natural ability long before he laid eyes on The Crow. The results of the rest of Crowley’s proteges, minus Roberts, are a considerably less sexy because hardly anyone has stuck around in the Majors. We’re talking about organizational guys like Luis Matos (now in Liga Mexicana), Larry Bigbie (Big in Japan) and Jay Gibbons (open letter to any team in baseball begging for a spot in AAA). The Crow has a long and undistinguished record at this point with the ballclub dating back, in this stint, to the 1999 season. Let’s look at out 14 team AL rankings in OBP and SLG during that period:

YEAR OBP SLG

2007 9 10
2006 8 10
2005 8 5
2004 4 8
2003 11 11
2002 13 11
2001 13 14
2000 10 10
1999 4 7

So during his past 9 years with the club, Crowley’s hitters have only twice been in the top half of AL teams in OBP and twice been in the top half in SLG. That is a poor track record gleaned from a whole lot of data in a large statistical sample. So while Nick might think highly of The Crow, the numbers speak very convincingly otherwise.

by Jonny Pops on Jun 15, 2008 4:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Those guys

obviously didn’t get any help by going to a different hitting coach. Maybe they just weren’t very good baseball players? I mean, Matos, Bigbie, and Gibbons? Com’on. I totally understand your point, and even support it, but your argument is terrible, if your convinently opting to discard Markakis and Roberts and focusing on the guys who plain and simple aren’t talented.

Did moving to Cincinnati make Corey Patterson stop being so damn infuriating? No. It did nothing for him, except maybe make him a little worse (somehow). Did going to Boston make Javy Lopez any better? Nope. Also Gibbons problems were more injury than anything else, weren’t they?

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke

by elk on Jun 15, 2008 3:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You're right.

My argument is terrible, if by terrible you mean backing up an argument with tons of statistical data garnered from the past 9+ years Crowley has been with the team.

But seriously, narrowly focusing on Roberts, Markakis, Gibbons, Matos or Bigbie is no way to evaluate the Orioles offense. What I’ve presented above both for this season thus far and for Crowley’s past 9 years with the O’s gives the big picture…and what an ugly picture it is.

by Jonny Pops on Jun 15, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh

Ok. Fair enough. Let me show off similar stats, this time with our team pitching over the past years:

2007 5.17 13
2006 5.35 13
2005 4.56 10
2004 4.70 7
2003 4.76 10
2002 4.46 7
2001 4.67 10
2000 5.14 11

That’s throughly terrible to mediocre at best. Are you telling me that it was totally on Mark Wiley, Ray Miller, Leo Mazzone, and Sammy Ellis. These guys (maybe not Ellis…) have tremendous reputations, especially Miller and Mazzone, but they didn’t have the talent here to make it work.

The reasoning is simple, because either the players sucked (Sir Ponson, Jason Johnson, Omar Daal, etc….) or the coaching just didn’t click with the good pitchers (Mazzone and Cabrera, for example) which just messed them up further.

Well, is Rick Down going to come in here and “click” with Boom Boom Bynum and Melvin Mora and Ramon Hernandez and fix their combined -9 VORP? Uh, no. In fact, the Crow does “click” with Nick the Stick and Brian Roberts (and apparently Luke Scott, based on his outstandingness so far), and the judge is still out on Adam Jones (though Jones does give a lot of credit to Crowley).

I don’t know why the Crow hasn’t been fired yet. His production has been just as bad or worse than the pitching staff, which has gone through plenty of coaching changes, and it looks bad that he’s stuck around so long. But a) I’m sick of just saying “He’s lucky to be in fuckin’ baseball” and then b) pointing to our mediocre offense and saying it’s all his fault when the Talent isn’t there.

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke

by elk on Jun 15, 2008 9:25 PM EDT   0 recs

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