Some trade ideas
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 16, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
53 comments
Since the All-Star break began I've been mulling over possible trade ideas and these are they...them.
With Takashi Saito about to hit the DL with an elbow ligament sprain, the Dodgers are going to need someone to take over the closer role. Sure, Broxton could slide in but based on history Colletti loves his veterans. Not only this, but their outfield is anaemic against left-handers. What am I going on about? George Sherrill and Jay Payton for Andy LaRoche and Chin-lung Hu. They've pretty much given up on LaRoche and Hu after they've struggled - fancy that, a rookie's struggling under Joe Torre - with the bat but done extremely well with the glove (1 error in 92 innings for LaRoche, 1 error in 303 innings for Hu). Then again, who is hitting for the ol' Dodgers? The thing is, based on what I've seen, neither guy was given the chance to take their lumps. The Orioles would allow for that. They have time and been by doing just this with Adam Jones all season. Then again, there's always a possibility that both really are busts.
The Twins need a bat at third. That's a given. Someone who can hit with pop and isn't can make decent plays at third. Aubrey Huff for Trevor Plouffe or Steven Tolleson, Boof Bonser, and Tyler Robertson or Anthony Swarzak. Why? Well, Plouffe (has a funny name) and Tolleson are shortstop prospects who get on base a great deal with solid averages and speed, Boof Bonser is much better then he's pitched this season and could even be kept in the bullpen or the rotation (swingman since Albers is out), and Robertson and Swarzak are solid pitching prospects.
Carlos Marmol is absolutely falling apart and the Cubs are going to need some insurance in the set-up role. Someone who can keep the ball in the ballpark and induces ground ball outs. Someone who has been in "the show" for a while now, perhaps? Chad Bradford for Tony Thomas and minor league pitchers. Tony Thomas is in Low-A right now but could be promoted to Double-A by the end of the season, and the Os have stated they want to load up on pitchers in their system.
So, the reason I'm bringing these up is that the Os need infield prospects (duh!) and they have pieces who could very easily be moved for blocked prospects or guys in the Low-As, Tony Thomas, who will be in their system, moving up to the major league roster by the time they're ready to compete.
P.S. - I would have suggested any trade that gets this team a Alcides Escobar-type or Mat Gamel-type, but that's not going to happen. Well, at least trading with the Brewers it's not.
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Ya beat me by 2 minutes
so I’ll delete mine. No sense having duplicates lying about…
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pictures...
don’t make up for data and analysis. Yours had better content. I can always pretty yours up with images if you’d like. It’s impossible for you to make me look like I know what I’m talking about. :)
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my judgements
George Sherrill and Jay Payton for Andy LaRoche and Chin-lung Hu. -
This would be the most obscenely lopsided trade of the year. I’d give up Sherrill and Payton for LaRoche alone before you could say Bill Bavasi. He may have struggled, but he’s still the best prospect in the Dodgers system. Chin-lung Hu is pretty good too. I doubt we can trade Sherrill for two top-level prospects.
Chad Bradford for Tony Thomas would be quite good, especially if we can get extras.
I’m having a hard time figuring out what we can get for Aubrey, as he is overachieving by such a level. Will people really buy Aubrey as high as his stock is right now?
by math_geek on Jul 16, 2008 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche... best position prospect
Kershaw’s their best pitching prospect
by math_geek on Jul 16, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually...
i’ll bet if the o’s give a little salary relief w/ huff, a pretty good deal can be struck. i think they could at least get something for bradford, payton and mora if a greater percentage of salary is digested.
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 16, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of these trades would make me happy
Agreed on the Huff front. Especially when it comes to the Twins there will have to be some kind of salary relief. I really think that they would be interested in him. Heck, playing him at third and using Punto as late inning defensive relief makes a lot of sense.
I really doubt Mora’s going to be traded. He’s not hitting, he has limited no-trade protection (has to be near his family), his defense is suspect, and his attitude is anything but positive. More then likely, he becomes a bench guy if the they trade for a third baseman or don’t trade Huff.
What’s really funny about all this, I originally thought about Matt Kemp in a trade and began looking at the Dodgers outfield production. Kemp and Delwyn Young are the only guys who have respectable numbers against lefties. Payton makes so much sense it makes me want to vomit with excitement.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 16, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, Payton and Sherrill
make a ton of sense for a trade with L.A. It won’t happen, because the L.A. FO makes Andy look like Quick Draw McGraw, and no one knows who’s in charge. And that’s before you get to the owner who’s vetoed a half dozen trades in the past few years.
Hey, that sounds familiar…
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers, especially under Torre
undervalue rookies. Look how long it took Loney to make the lineup, and Matt Kemp can do no right in the eyes of teh teams fans and media. And they’re still running Andruw Jones out there. If there’s a team (besides Houston) who can be snookered, it might just be L.A. Not saying they will give up the store for a 6-week need, but they just MIGHT.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's to dreams then
but I’m not holding my breath. Trading two top position prospects for a good but not great lefty reliever and a bad outfielder is they kind of trade that can result in firings.
by math_geek on Jul 16, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure...
why not go down in a blaze of glory like baby bavasi?!
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 16, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he's determined to move those guys for immediate help
He’ll get a lot more than Sherill + Payton
There’s just no scenario where this can happen, outside a Kazmir-for-Zambrano type lightning strike.
by dkdc on Jul 16, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was kidding.
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 16, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying we'd get both
McCourt would never let that happen. But one + a fringe prospect? Maybe, just maybe….
And look at all those SAVES George has! Pretty easy sell to the casual fan that you’ve actually done something….
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
George isn't even a bad reliever
we’ve been ripping on him, and he’s struggled recently,as he’s overexposed as a closer. But as a Left-handed Setup man… he’d be absolutely great. But no-one in their right mind gives up a top position prospect for a set-up man or a LOOGY.
by math_geek on Jul 16, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Key sentence...
But no-one in their right mind...
We’re talking about an MLB GM of a franchise that who just gave Andruw Jones a shit-ton of money, after giving Juan Pierre a shit-ton of money, after giving Jason Schmidt a shit-ton of money, after giving Chan Ho Park a shit-ton of money (again!), after giving Derek Lowe a shit-ton of money, and after giving Nomar Garciaparra a shit-ton of money. And Jeff Kent.
I rest, your honor…
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derek Lowe has been
a great signing.
by Awesome Mike Awesome on Jul 16, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one.
What about the other six?
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On November 8, 2007, Park accepted an offer from his original team, the Los Angeles Dodgers, to attend spring training as a non-roster invitee. On November 28, 2007, Park asked to be let go by the Dodgers to play for the Korean team. After pitching with no health issues for the Korean National team, the contract was finalized on December 6, 2007. Despite being considered a long shot for the fifth starter’s role, Park pitched very well, but was ultimately passed over for right-hander Esteban Loaiza. He was eventually reassigned to the minor leagues on March 30, 2008. Faced with the problem of a fatigued and depleted pitching staff three games later, the Dodgers purchased Park’s minor league contract on April 2, 2008.[7] Park is currently being used as a reliever and a spot starter.
This is not a shit ton of money. The Rangers gave him the only “shit ton” he’s ever gotten.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Jul 17, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, THIS time, maybe
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 17, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NL
Sherrill could be very effective for a while in the NL against hitters who havent seen him before. Look what he did last night.
by nittany lion on Jul 16, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From The Sun
Exploring the O’s trade options
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll post one...
George Sherrill, LHP
Why he could be traded: Several contenders have holes in bullpen; can either close or be situational lefty; immune to pressure, making him good fit for playoff team.
Why he won’t be: Affordable; not eligible for free agency until after 2011; MacPhail has stressed importance of strong bullpen; has become fan and clubhouse favorite; uncertainty with Jim Johnson’s future role and Chris Ray’s health.
Potential suitors: Angels, Brewers, Cardinals, Dodgers, Rays, Yankees
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherrill
Are you sure is under control through 2011? He could be a super two, which would be consistent with him not being a free agent until after 2011, but in 2008 we “avoided arbitration” with him, which would speak to him being a free agent after 2010.
Off topic, is it preferable to have links open in a new window or not?
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jul 16, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
All above info is from The Sun.
And my personal preference is new window. YMMV.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
new window
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
by SC on Jul 16, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2011 is correct
Sherrill started the year with less than 3 years service time, and he needs at least 6 full years to declare free agency.
by dkdc on Jul 17, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Random ideas:
Huff and $5 Million to LAA for Brandon Wood and a lower level SS prospect
Sherrill to LAD for LaRoche and a SS prospect (Hu maybe?) (justification Torre is there to win now)
Roberts to Milwaukee for Rickie Weeks and Escobedo (or Gamel), not sure if they would do that, but they too have to win now
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jul 16, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers....
Sherrill to LAD for LaRoche and a SS prospect (Hu maybe?)
We’re gonna have to give a LOT more than that, or get a lot less back.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 16, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it is kinda wishful thinking
But the fact that Sherrill is under control for another few more seasons + the win now mode in LA + sherrill’s reasonable contract + other options at third for LA might equal LaRoche and some other B-/C+ prospect.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jul 16, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherrill + Payton
I really think they’re looking for an outfielder who hits lefties. A bench guy.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 16, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherrill + Luke Scott?
Scott is not so good with the lefties, but a better chip than Payton.
"Whether your name is Gehrig or Ripken, DiMaggio or Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That's all I've ever tried to do."
by spike2131 on Jul 16, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I can give up Sherrill + Jay
instead of Sherrill + Luke, I’d do that.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 17, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see...
i still think scott and reimold in left would make for a pretty nice little platoon.
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 17, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So would I
But if I’m the Dodgers, I’m pushing for Scott, not Payton.
If the deal is LaRoche and Hu for Sherill and Scott, do you pull the trigger?
"Whether your name is Gehrig or Ripken, DiMaggio or Robinson, or that of some youngster who picks up his bat or puts on his glove, you are challenged by the game of baseball to do your very best day in and day out. That's all I've ever tried to do."
by spike2131 on Jul 17, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The outfield issue
The Dodgers don’t seem to be looking for someone to play every day which is what Scott needs to do. They have Jones, Kemp, and Either and I don’t see them trying to get another guy who doesn’t hit lefties that well with moderate defense. Payton, on the other hand, hits lefties, plays all the outfield spots, and covers more ground then Scott. He just makes more sense then Scott. If this were a different trade with another team Scott would be an upgrade and make sense.
To answer your question, yes. LaRoche and Hu for Sherrill and Scott, I’d do.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 17, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
They don’t want an everyday OF, just someone who can be plugged in to hit lefties. Sherrill + Payton is a perfect fit for them. What can we get BACK, though, is where Andy earns his money. How much can we squeeze them for?
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 17, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion...
any trade that nets us a 1B/3B type AND a SS would be a major coup for the Orioles. They are two of our most glaring holes right now, and to get even one of them filled with a young, promising player would be a huge boon to our future.
I say even if you can only get one of them for Sherrill, you still do it.
by therobotian on Jul 17, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we can get a good 1B or SS type
for Shutdown, do it in a heartbeat.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 17, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what do you guys think about...
acquiring ronnie “the dillweed” cedeno? anyone think bradford and most of his contract would do it?
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 17, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's become a reliable platoon guy
He’ll probably stay with the Cubs this season. Who knows about next season. Also, he stopped hitting.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 17, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, figures...
after all, he IS a dillweed!
foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08
by j.q. higgins on Jul 17, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers fans want Roberts and Sherrill
This is an interesting turn of events. But really, who are they suggesting the Dodgers give up for Roberts AND Sherrill. Sherrill alone is going to yield a reasonable haul, especially since the same site suggest Siato might be destined for Tommy John surgery.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 18, 2008 12:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ROBERTS and Sherrill???
Methink not, unless they back up the truck. They would have to clean out their farm system to make it worthwhile for us. Sherrill’s overvauled, but Roberts is definitely undervalued. I’d have to see what L.A. is considering, but my first thought is, it ain’t enough.
This from the site makes me wonder how valid their analysis is concerning Sherill:
Wears down late in the season and can’t pitch on consecutive days
WTF?
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 18, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From that same site:
Well, it looks as if Saito’s career could possibly be over. According to team surgeon and the dodgers website, Saito has "a ligament sprain, which is a stretching or tearing of the ligament that stabilizes the elbow. It is an injury that often results in what has become known as Tommy John elbow reconstruction, which requires a full year of rehabilitation."Lets face it, Saito is 38 and this could be the end of his career. For now, he’s hoping to stay positive and see how his elbow reacts in 6 weeks without having any surgery, but he is not ruling out the possibility of surgery in the near future. This could be a long 2nd half.
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 18, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Saito might be done. They’re going to try Broxton for now, but who knows if that’ll work out.
True, their proposals are pretty crazy, but they have other guys who would help the Os out. Like, say, Kershaw, Hu, LaRoche, Scott Elbert, Pedro Baez…to start.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 18, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be just a START
for Sherrill and Roberts in the same deal.
I don’t like the idea of tying two of our BEST bargaining chips in the same deal. Wouldn’t it be easier to maximize their value in seperate deals?
"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby
by duck on Jul 18, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’m hoping most of the veterans are traded in separate deals with the exception being that a Jay Payton or a Jamie Walker be included on a deal to ensure a high-ceiling prospect.
by Dr Orpheus on Jul 18, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
couple points on the original post..
No way we can get LaRoche for Sherrill. As much as a closer is valued, a first year guy with no proven track record isnt going to get a #1 prospect in return. Adding in Payton makes a little sense, and may work but with Furcal a FA I cant see them using Hu as a toss in, no matter how bad he has been (also, I think he kinda stinks so why would we want him?)
Marmol had a couple bad outings, but he is still the top SU guy in baseball, so the Cubs aren’t going to worry about him. If anything they would want a guy like Walker to give them a LOOGY.
I agree we aren’t gonna get Gamel or Escobar without giving up the farm. Thats a team that really values its prospects.
Our best hope is that someone gets hurt. An injury to a 3B/2B around the league would be incredibly valuable to us. (I would love to see Youkalis go down so we had a shot at Lowrie)
Keep in mind that losing free agents nets draft picks, and if the front office is willing to step up like they did with weiters and get the top guys regardless of bonus demands then it may be worth it not to trade unless we get back AAA talent.
by ADLC on Jul 19, 2008 6:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LaRoche
I don’t think LaRoche is the Dodgers #1 prospect (Kershaw). He was BA’s #31 prospect coming into the season and has had some injuries this year.
To be fair, I didn’t think he was rated that highly, but I guess I’m wrong on that. So in order to get him, we’d have to arrange a deal involving Brian Roberts, though I’m not sure why the Dodgers would want him.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jul 19, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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