Please trade George Sherrill

by yurizanow on Jul 30, 2008 1:12 PM EDT

The guy enters the game with a 7-3 lead and exits with a 7-6 lead. This guy has gotta go and sooner rather than later because eventually other teams are going to catch on.

The numbers don't lie. The guy is on pace to set career-highs for hits, runs, home runs, and walks and he's 31 years old. It's not likely he's going to get any better. If there is a team willing to give actual baseball players for him, do it. The O's should be grateful they got a player in a trade that they could turn into more players. That's the kind of slick front office action I would love to see come out of Baltimore.

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Easier said than done

I trust that if a good offer comes in, AM wont hesitate.

by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Amen

Last night was ridiculous.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Jul 30, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Heyman says he won't be traded

I’m not sure when it became absolutely necessary that this team get a shortstop for Sherrill. Why not a starter or two? A second, third, or first base prospect?
This makes very little sense.

by Dr Orpheus on Jul 30, 2008 2:44 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I think the O's should be trading for talent, not for a specific need.

Really, the need some young talent at 1B, SS, 3B, pitching. You name it. Why hinder any talks with the requirement it include a SS?

by drj on Jul 30, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I find this fishy

Pretty much everyone has commented on the fact that demanding a shortstop only for Sherrill is very dumb, so I have to think that it can’t be the whole truth. We all know that MacPhail is a pretty good GM, and it seems pretty doubtful to me that he would turn down all other options as he needs a shortstop; this team could pretty much take anything besides catcher. I think the truth is that he is asking all teams for their young shortstop, and once they decline he is willing to accept other position players but for a higher price and no one wants to do that.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Jul 30, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

agreeing with you here

by Y Not on Aug 1, 2008 5:30 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

The price is high for Sherrill

He of the 1.46 WHIP and 4.23 ERA. Both above his career average. Righties have a .776 OPS against him.

MacPhail can tell us the price is high as Sherrill is a stud closer. Other teams can read stats and realize he can play a role as a set up man, and are probably offering a commensurate return. That’s not good enough for an All Star pitcher.

by drj on Jul 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

An All Star?

He was only in the All Star Game because of that one player per team rule. I would take anything half decent for flatbill in a heartbeat.

by Jonny Pops on Jul 30, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

The players voted Sherrill in

The fans vote, then the players vote, then the managers fill the remaining spots, taking care to make sure every team has one representative.

Sherrill was there because he was voted to the game by the players.

by PhilR8 on Jul 30, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I thought the pitchers...

...were entirely chosen by the managers, who in turn were constrained by the 1 per team rule.

by Jonny Pops on Jul 30, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

The cynicism flew right over your head

by drj on Jul 30, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I guess so...

...that was pretty dry even for you though. Either that or commuting back and forth across the country is starting to wear on me, which is a decent possibility.

by Jonny Pops on Jul 30, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

For the record

Per MLB Trade Rumors

Roberts and Sherrill are off the market

by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 30, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I believe it 4pm tomorrow

MacPhail is known to squeeze out all he can get in his trades. I think he’s just using the media to give him more leverage in negotiations. As the deadline approaches, he should get what he wants or at least settle for something a little less (but still very fair). I think we should see at least one trade by this time tomorrow.

by edsachs1 on Jul 30, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Fair?

The guy is on pace to set career-highs for hits, runs, home runs, and walks…

Isn’t he also on pace to set career marks for IP?

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jul 30, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Sure it is

He’s still one inning away from his career high of innings pitched yet he’s already surpassed his previous highs in hits, runs, and home runs and is only two away from his previous high in walks.

by yurizanow on Jul 30, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

gotcha

I didn’t look at the numbers. I just thought I had heard that he had already passed his IP total before the break.

I don’t think they’ll find any takers but I also don’t think that it would be bad to keep him as long as he fills his natural role as a lefty specialist / middle reliever for the next couple of years.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jul 30, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

The Criticism

Is completely unwarranted. He was a lefty specialist and setup man. He is now being called on to pitch the 9th and more. Of course his numbers will go up. When you don’t always face the primo matchup you will get burned once in awhile. Last night, yes it was not good, but he still finished out the job regardless. He’s under team control for 3 more years, and he is the best lefty reliever on the team. Even if he isn’t a closer, if we kept him for lefty and setup purposes then it wouldn’t be so bad either.

by PWubbs on Jul 30, 2008 4:55 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I disagree

Who cares if he’s left-handed and the Orioles control him for the next three years? He has shown himself to be a 31 year-old who isn’t so good at getting guys out, which is the first job of any pitcher. Guys who “finish out the job” are never the solution for a bullpen.

As I mentioned above, his past performance shows that he’s not an elite or even decent reliever and his age shows he most likely won’t ever be one. If another team offers something for him, it would be dumb to pass it up.

By the way, is there anybody on the Orioles you don’t like or don’t have faith will become a better player?

by yurizanow on Jul 30, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Hold on....

He has shown himself to be a 31 year-old who isn’t so good at getting right-handed guys out…

FTFY. He’s doing just fine against lefties, iirc.

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on Jul 30, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

And did you really mean to type...

Who cares if he’s left-handed and the Orioles control him for the next three years?

Seriously – THAT’S the way you want to start your defense? Seems to me those are two INCREDIBLY relevant details to a team looking for a reliever – cheap for 3 years and left-handed.

by duck on Jul 30, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yes, I did mean to type that

If you look at the sentence that followed it you will see why. There is no virtue in cheap, left-handed player if he doesn’t do the basic thing you would like him to do.

My Dad had a friend in college whose parents used to send him things they thought he needed. One time he got a box filled with size 40 pants and the guy called his father up and asked him why he sent him a box filled with size 40 pants when he was nowhere that size himself. His father responded “they were such a good deal.” That strikes me as an apt analogy.

Now, you do raise an excellent point when you talk about his value as a left-handed specialist, but he isn’t going to be the closer if he can’t get right-handers out and a loobie or whatever they call it isn’t worth holding onto if there is a team dumb enough to trade for him.

by yurizanow on Jul 30, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

You're not thinking like a salesman

Of COURSE you need a cheap left-handed reliever! You NEVER can have enough pitching!

Don’t defend your product’s (or pitcher’s) flaws, sell the buyer what they think they need! EVERYONE needs more left-handed relievers! Everyone!

And as for your dad, well, a few rich meals and he just might have needed those size 40 pants….

by duck on Jul 30, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I'm dense

I actually used to be a salesman, but I missed your point. I thought you were saying the Orioles should keep him for the reasons you mentioned. Sorry about that.

The guy with the size 40 pants he didn’t need wasn’t my Dad, it was his friend. That same guy’s parents sent him a case of Campbell’s soup because they didn’t think he could get Campbell’s soup in Madison, WI.

by yurizanow on Jul 31, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Anything for Sherrill,

This is as high a value player he is probably ever going to be. Its not even a white flag on the season like dealing B-Rob would be.

by jobe on Jul 31, 2008 2:52 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

+1

Sherrill’s been a top-quality LH reliever for several years now, and there’s no reason to think that’s changed.

A lot of the reason he’s valuable to the O’s is that he’s cheap and under control for a few years, and condending teams don’t focus on that when they make deadline deals. It would make more sense to trade him in the offseason or at the deadline a few years from now.

by dkdc on Jul 30, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

offseason fine,

But a few years from now is entirely too risky. His trade value was at a peak about a six weeks ago and now it’s slowing dropping. At this point, I’m worried that Sherrill’s value will be assessed as a LOOGY rather than a closer by the time the offseason rolls around.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jul 30, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

No one thinks he's a closer

He’s an excellent setup reliever/LOOGY who can be stretched in to an average-but-not-dominant closer.

That’s what he was 6 months ago, that’s what he is now, and that’s what he will be two years from now.

by dkdc on Jul 31, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He’s an excellent setup reliever/LOOGY who can be stretched in to an average-but-not-dominant closer.

I’m not sure he’s an excellent setup reliever. He’s probably as good of a set up releiver as he is a closer unless you believe the mental aspects of pitching in the 8th and 9th are vastly different. He’s an excellent LOOGY though. LOOGYs don’t have much value though, which is why he should be traded a month ago when teams could at least entertain the possibility that they were receiving something more than a LOOGY.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jul 31, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

LOOGYs don’t have much value though,

Which is why we gave Walker a ton of money a couple of years ago. Another stellar move.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jul 31, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He was just an excellent setup reliever a month ago. He had no more value then he does now or did at the beginning of the year.

If there does exist a mental “something” that a closer needs, Sherrill definitely has it. The man has ice water running through his veins with runners on base (often of his own doing). I call him just an average closer because most of the best relievers of the game are closers and Sherrill doesn’t stack up well when compared to the top 10 or so relievers in the majors.

I do think Sherrill’s one of the 25-30 best relievers in the major leagues. Every team could improve their bullpen by adding him.

by dkdc on Jul 31, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Off subject

but remember the MR the Twins had last year with the funky wind up/delivery? Where did that guy go? He had a hell of a year last year.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jul 31, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Injured all season

Elbow, I believe.

by Dr Orpheus on Jul 31, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I don't know about you...

But if the Sherrill/LaRoche deal with LA was legit and we didnt take it I may have to boycott the rest of the season. I guess its our own fault for enjoying the run of respectability that ran through the first half, now they won’t trade anyone.

Does anyone really think that finishing .500 is meaningful and worth pursuing? I would rather they trade away anyone that doesn’t help them in 2010 now, and get whatever we can in return.

You telling me we cant get a couple position prospects for Bradford and Walker? Huff has to have some value too. Sherrill and Roberts could return high end prospects.

The fact that the Orioles are apparently demanding teams give up their top prospect for guys like Bradford is quite discouraging.

by ADLC on Jul 31, 2008 6:53 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I can say with relative certainty

that LA wouldn’t part with LaRoche for George Sherrill. What an awful deal that’d be for them.

"There is a value to breaking the string of losing seasons as an organization or as a franchise. But breaking that streak can’t come at the expense of doing what you need to do to get your franchise to the point where it can reach the postseason." ~Andy MacPhail

by Stacey on Jul 31, 2008 7:53 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Agreed

But I still recommend boycotting the rest of the season if you feel that way.

August/September in Oriole land is ugly.

by dkdc on Jul 31, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I never saw LaRoche/Sherrill referenced anywhere

except our own “wouldn’t it be great if….” posts here at CC. I can’t imagine that was ever offered by LAD.

by duck on Jul 31, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yeah, I was dreaming

What a nice dream it was.
LaRoche was there and Escobar was there and Gamel and Rasmus…

by Dr Orpheus on Jul 31, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

So, did you escape for Orioles Hangout?

Or some other corner of the internet where people believe ridiculous things like that O’s would demand LaRoche for Bradford or Sherril, or that MacPhail wouldn’t deal Sherril for pieces that would help the team…

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Jul 31, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

+1

Whatever those people are on, i dont want any part of it. They are delusional for the most part. You have people over that think Huff should be given 4/60 extension and all kinds of crazy talk.

But Tony does give good minor league updates and draft coverage (Ex. Miclat our 5th round pick signed today).

by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 31, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He has uncertain value

+ Lots of people saw him shutdown the NL
+ LHP
+ Good contract terms
- His numbers are unimpressive and maybe a little scary (except for SV which are questionable)
Highly unreliable (esp of late)

I really think that the Sheriff is getting overworked (including by himself with his 25 pitch innings) which isn’t helping his performance. Also, he needs to quit pitching in non-save situations (from B-R):

Split BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip
in Sv Situ .202 .294 .347 .640 .225
in non-Sv .349 .453 .465 .918 .556

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Jul 31, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

All Star Game

He was shaky in his second inning of the All-Star game. Those guys were hitting it deep off him.

If I recall correctly there was one ball near the left-field warning track. That would’ve been a home run at Camden Yards.

by yurizanow on Jul 31, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

HR friendly OPACY

Maybe he should be dealt to a team with a larger outfield then.

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Jul 31, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Split BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip
in Sv Situ .202 .294 .347 .640 .225
in non-Sv .349 .453 .465 .918 .556

I noticied that too but I think he’s pitched in so few non-SV situations that his numbers are probably a fluke.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Jul 31, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I snipped that for readability

But it’s 36G, 34.2 IP in save situations
12G, 10 IP not.

Smaller sample size but still about 1/4 of his work.

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Jul 31, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

from BP...

“Great quote from a FOT (first time I’ve used that term!). “The Orioles want teams to pay for a guy with 30 saves, teams are offering for a guy with the other numbers of a decent middle reliever”

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on Jul 31, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs