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GameThread: O's (63-70) @ Rays (81-51)

Baltimore Orioles at Tampa Bay Rays, Aug 29, 2008 7:10 PM EDT


Capt F1c2ed27477ed27d2d5d86459583ae35-getty-80321562jd003_tampa_bay_ray_medium

  Today's Starting Pitchers GS IP ERA WHIP BAA HR BB K W-L
Jeremy Guthrie - RH 28 183.2 3.28 1.17 .235 22 51 117 10-10
Scott Kazmir - LH 21 121.0 3.27 1.23 .219 14 52 134 9-6

Nice pitching matchup today. Ace-on-ace crime will be high in Tampa St. Pete today.

When I see the Rays in first place on August 29, I see skies of blue. And clouds of white. The bright, blessed day, the dark, sacred night. And I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

470px-louis_armstrong_nywts_3_medium

But then I realize, "Wow. I'm going to hate the guts of this team in a year or so, too." I know some of y'all don't think the Rays can come up with a fanbase as obnoxious and despicable as "Red Sox Nation" or "Yankee Universe," I pose to you a question: ever been to Florida? Ever talk to some of these people? Yeesh.

Now, that's a soft chide. The only Rays fans I've ever talked to have been very friendly, and are deservedly enjoying this excellent season they're having. But they're going to pick up the d-bags that make Guy That Yells All Night embarrassed to wear his cap in some places.

Is it wrong of me to root for the O's this series but also just not really give a crap if they lose a few here? The Red Sox are four and a half games back and have the Pale Hose in Boston starting tonight, but anything that would make Tampa's incredible run to an AL East title in the first season they've ever been above .500 (or close to .500) would be kind of nice. We rolled over for the Yankees for years down the stretch. Why not show our former basement brethren the same courtesy?

I think this now. Of course, when Jamie Walker gets taken yard by Carlos Pena in what turns out to be the game-blowing shot, I'll be righteously furious. Or, at least, as righteously furious as I can get in late August. Orioles Magic? Feel it happen?

Another losing season. I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal, you.

0 recs  |  Comment 124 comments

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you know what...

Fuck the Rays for three.

BTW, is the embedding in a post limited to you elitist types?

Kevbo: [to George Sherrill] George, you look a lot like Vin Diesel...

Flatbill: Let's get somethin' straight... Vin Diesel looks like me.

-From "The Making of Orioles Magic"

by dayzd toe on Aug 29, 2008 5:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

And I hope the dirty southsiders run the fuck over the pink hatted douchebags.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, not all of us are bandwagoners. Or d-bags.

Too christian to say the actual word.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe it is

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was just reading Roch

Danny C’s suspension has been upheld. You know from that time he totally wasn’t throwing at A-Rod? He’ll be back on Sept 5th. I’m sure we’ll all miss him.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 6:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does that mean Mary Kate is coming back up?

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haven't heard

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds idiotic

but he might have been referencing the Rays manager who said the gold glove award is more of an offensive award because that’s who always gets the awards

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a minute ...

Are we threatening to score in the first with Guthrie pitching? What’s going on here?

And WTF is with the cowbells?

"... so what's good for the goose is good for the gander," Trembley said.

by Bee the Ball on Aug 29, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey westie

long time no see

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ya

I have had a lot of stuff and the new site threw me off, but im back

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good job Ramon

Glad to know you actually do know how to execute a run down.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He IS in the best shape of his life

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ooh

exciting flashback

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh lord

this is going well.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hold on

Is Willy Aybar’s up to bat music Low by Flo Rida? Seriously?

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that

should be out #3

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

does anyone

actually come to devil rays games

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

sounds like Millar

is the one being heckled tonight. I hate that guy so much.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the guy who heckles all the time

He’s so annoying.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

o

I did not notice that.

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s somewhat famous

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More ammunition for

the “anyone can be famous these days” argument. He and Jenn Sterger should get together.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few years ago, my brother gave me tickets to the Devil Rays owners seats

behind the dugout. A couple of guys came down to the front row every time a particular D-Ray batter came up to bat and gave him HELL…about his batting average…contract…all kinds of inside baseball stuff that was waaayy over my head. I guess that was our baltimore version of this guy. The pisser was…the guy they were heckling blasted a couple of home runs after the hecklers did their thing and I remember the look the batter shot them after he hit both of those dongs. The fans eventually asked the hecklers to leave. Now it all makes sense. Thank you Camden Chat!

by Bromo on Aug 29, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol,

seriously, good story.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Guts

If he fades down the stretch I don’t know what we’ll do.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I do

We’ll lose even more games than we would have.

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on Aug 30, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is going 2 b

a bad day, if he cant stop this

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 7:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is Guts getting squeezed? Gameday had ball three

to Pena in the same place as Strike one…

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 7:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They're close calls

But he hasn’t had the plate all night so he’s not getting anything close.

This is getting painful.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just say Ohm

This will pass. And if you want to select a mantra to meditate with, try “Juan Castro is useless.” It’s very relaxing.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

more like a manfra

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks now i'm gonna have nigtmares

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dosen't he look like the guy from Raaders of the Lost Ark

the one who gets his palm melted?

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know,

I’m not sure that picture is relaxing or helpful at all.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Ernest Goes to Baseball Camp"

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just...never mind

Forget meditation for now. :P

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

if they looked like that they could stay

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better...

Skid Row

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on Aug 30, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Jaypay

was The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Melmo hurt!

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 8:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"In comes Cintron"

“And thats not good news”

no shit.

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No offense to Melmo, I don't wish him pain

But if he’s out awhile Huffy can play third which gives Lou more playing time. I like Lou. Plus maybe Aubrey will make more of those awesome faces when the ball gets hit to him.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 8:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That stadium is begging for a demolition team

What architect built that eyesore anyway?

by Bromo on Aug 29, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they should have painted the outside

Orange so it looks like a tropicana orange

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice bounce back Guts

keep it up.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Alright lets get 2 back this inning

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

or not

"Daddy, is Hevan like BIRDLAND?"
"No son, Hevan is BIRDLAND."

by BENNY BIRDMAN on Aug 29, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think

Millar is past his hitting hey-day

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 8:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wellll

On the plus side, this will probably be Guts’s worst outing of the year! Sooooo can’t wait until he pitches next time!

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 8:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is his second bad one in a row

which is disconcerting

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disconcerting, but nothing to worry too much about

they’ve both been against good teams, and maintaining a sub-3.30 ERA is damn hard in the AL.

An interesting thing to look at…will Guthrie keep starting through the end of the year, given that he’s going to set a career high in innings and the O’s aren’t in the playoff hunt? You can never be too careful in this type of situation.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Aug 29, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF?

My power goes out and it’s 3-0. My power comes back on 10 minutes later and its 10-0? Guess I’ll go find something else to do.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Where's our badass offense

this cannot end as a shutout

by Bromo on Aug 29, 2008 9:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is great

The Rays exploded for seven runs in the fourth inning, turning a close game into a laugher.

by westcoastOfan2 on Aug 29, 2008 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so, Ramon's ejection has been the highlight for me so far

that was an impressive stream of cursing, and I’m pretty sure he’s out in the parking lot slashing the tires on the umpire’s rental car.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 9:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

WTF!!!!

10-0??? And what was Ramon all fired up about?

Kevbo: [to George Sherrill] George, you look a lot like Vin Diesel...

Flatbill: Let's get somethin' straight... Vin Diesel looks like me.

-From "The Making of Orioles Magic"

by dayzd toe on Aug 29, 2008 9:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

an awful strike zone

and being tremendously frustrated, I believe.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, welcome back Westie.

I’ve decided to drink, and flip between Wii and college football tonight. I have chosen wisely.

"He’s in trouble. Whatever he throws me, I’m going to hit it."
-- Alex Cintron

by BrianS on Aug 29, 2008 9:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

holy fuck

I’m glad I’m drunk and about to go out

I check the score to see St. Guts getting shelled? Fuck that. At least its the rays, I guess.

More whisky!

by pipkin on Aug 29, 2008 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

13-1, huh?

Welcome back, Orioles.

If y’all don’t think this team might lose 90 again, you’re more optimistic than I am.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

Camden Chat
Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 29, 2008 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

considering that the preseason predictions

were for 110…we sure as hell shouldn’t be surprised.

by pipkin on Aug 29, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was pretty convinced the Braves would suck forever.

Then they ran off 15 division titles in a row.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't THAT long ago when the Sawx were nuthin but a joke

now they got the biggest bandwagon in sports history

by Bromo on Aug 29, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yankees still have that title...

in danger of losing it though. Proud to say i’ve been following the Sox for roughly a decade (around 2/3 of life).

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, you've been following them

since they’ve been winning?

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, because they were totally dominating in 1997.

I started following them after a month or so.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Sep 2, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone in Tampa

Is poor, old and doesn’t care. Not to mention that they have one of the most embarrassing stadiums in pro sports, but they do have a good audio system.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not old, poor, and I am a diehard Sox fan...

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then you explain that to Jim Palmer

Because he is under the impression that everyone in Tampa/St. Pete fall under one of those categories.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's right if he is talking the people who should be Rats fans by now.

It is a big military area, so you do get a lot of transplants.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comeback

Bitches. This is a vital game if we want to get home field this year.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yes, Mr Trembley

this is the proper situation for Jamie Walker.

God, he sucks this year.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice job. 14-3 Rats. Couldn't yall at least try to help us?

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We'd really rather not.

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Sep 2, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean

Stayed with the team for 11 years of misery or three and a half hours of torture?

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. I applaud you, and the fans of other teams that have sucked for a long, long time.

[still clapping]

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah well

If only all of us were lucky enough to be from Boston. Or have a grandma whose friend once visited and therefore confirm our close ties to Boston.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow I feel so validated

that some 15 year old red sox fan applauds my fandom.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uhhh

Show some respect. He is clearly superior to us because he is one of the few who follows the Red Sox. I mean, the fact that he would take some time out of his schedule to grace us lowly O’s fans with his presence is just a humbling experience for me.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Aug 29, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the few, the proud

the 15 year old red sox fans from tampa

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Aug 29, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not from Tampa, just stuck here while my Dad is stationed here (Air Force Base).

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Sep 2, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know there are a ton of bandwagon fans of the Sox okay?

I came over here because I was cheering for y’all to beat the Rays.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Sep 2, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Game. Y'all need some help real bad.

I would start praying for Cal Ripkin III to pop up somewhere.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 29, 2008 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

R-I-P-K-E-N

It’s not that hard to spell.

The question is, are you wearing a green Red Sox hat while typing this?

"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08

by getxstoked on Aug 29, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's pink

"I wasn't here for the losing years. But it feels a little like the days with Earl in charge and John Lowenstein smashing birthday cakes in the middle of the clubhouse with a bat." - John "T-Bone" Shelby

by duck on Aug 30, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, typing a little fast.

Don't question my choice of teams, or I will have to go all troll on you.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Sep 2, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, buddy

We’ve already got our Red Sox troll here, and you, sir, are no Awesome Mike Awesome.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Aug 30, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know why you're here.

I guess you all aren’t going for the subtle approach anymore..

by Y Not on Aug 30, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

obviously aimed at busfleisfojfersox, not Phil.

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Aug 30, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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