Shysterball doesn't want Mark Teixeira

by yurizanow on Aug 7, 2008 4:02 PM EDT

http://shysterball.blogspot.com/2008/08/os-fans-dont-know-whats-good-for-them.html

The gist of the article seems to be that if the Orioles sign Teixeira, it will contradict the work Andy MacPhail has been doing to build the Orioles from the bottom up by reverting to Peter Angelos free-spending ways.

I don't know I necessarily buy that. Although I would go after Adam Dunn, who probably cost less money for similar offensive output, the Orioles will eventually have to sign somebody who didn't come up through their own system and Teixeira is young enough that he could meld nicely with the young players who will be coming up in the next few years and still have some productivity in him when the O's are ready to compete.

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I don't get it

I thought the plan was to develop a young, cheap core of players and fill in the holes with free agents.

It’s impossible to develop a legitimate major leaguer at every position, so signing premium talent like Teixeira is the only way the Orioles will ever compete.

By the time the Orioles draft and develop a power-hitting first basemen of their own, guys like Markakis and Guthrie will be hitting free agency.

by dkdc on Aug 7, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Teix talk

All of this talk premature w/o knowing dollar figures and years. Do I want the O’s to sign Teix in the offseason? Of course. Do I want the O’s to sign at any cost (e.g. 10 years, 230 M)? Hell no.

Wolf, wolf, wolf.

by birdman on Aug 7, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Smart thought

and I’m sure every other team out there is thinking the same thing. I don’t really think that Teixeira gets the 10 years Boras wants for him, nor do I think he hits 200 million. His output just isn’t that good, even if his agent is. I expect the Orioles will do more than kick the tires on him…but honestly I don’t know if he winds up here. I don’t think he’ll be a Yankee though.

Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for wolves... all we know is, he's called Luke Scott.

by elk on Aug 7, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

the rays, for instance...

3 homegrown players in their starting lineup, 2 in their rotation.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on Aug 7, 2008 5:18 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I would like Teixeira and Dunn please

Mark at first, Dunn at DH/LF, stick Aubrey at 3rd, and besides SS you’d have a pretty good major league lineup. No way the O’s would do that, but could they afford it if they wanted to?

"There is a value to breaking the string of losing seasons as an organization or as a franchise. But breaking that streak can’t come at the expense of doing what you need to do to get your franchise to the point where it can reach the postseason." ~Andy MacPhail

by Stacey on Aug 7, 2008 7:42 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Sure they could

Especially if they can dump Mora and Ramon’s contracts.

But the pitching would still be atrocious.

by dkdc on Aug 7, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Thus we have the circle...

Signing any bat this offseason is going against what MacPhail is trying to do in Baltimore. As far as I’ve understood, he’s trying to sell off the vets for young, mlb ready players and prospects; obviously. That process hasn’t been completed. The team still contains veterans who need to be traded and the farm still needs to be fertilized before any offseason pick ups are even considered.

If they’re goal is to follow the Marlin/A’s/Diamondback/Rays paradigm, they’ll need to strip down to their skivvies, completely, and wait until the farm is reloaded and as many of the prospects currently in the system are ready. The idea of “added veteran stabilization” is, I thought, in reference to teams that don’t have solutions at a position but have young players in others and need some leadership. Plugging one hole this offseason with several others leaking doesn’t really make sense. Do as the Rays did this year, build up your prospects and add some help when the time comes to compete.

by Dr Orpheus on Aug 7, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I don't think that will work on its own

I think some people (not you) are caught up in the notion that there is something virtuous or moral about having a team filled only with homegrown players and that signing free agents is reflective of some sort of weakness or failing. That isn’t the case. You get a World Series ring even if the team is made up of hired guns like the Red Sox were in 2004.

The Orioles don’t have in their system anyone to play first base that anyone things will amount to anything anytime soon and they don’t have any power hitters except for Matt Weiters (sort of). They need those things if there ever going to be good. Any player they draft won’t be ready for another 3-5 years and I doubt any other teams will want to trade their power-hitting prospects.

If the Orioles had Dunn and Teixeira they would be ready to compete NOW. Their lineup would compare with the Red Sox or the Yankees or the Rays. You put out a team that has a lineup with Roberts, Markakis, Teixeira, Dunn, and (if he turns out to be half as good as he looks) Matt Weiters, that team is going to be in the hunt offensively speaking. Plus Dunn and Teixeira are 28, which is plenty young enough to expect they’ll be able to contribute for awhile.

by yurizanow on Aug 8, 2008 2:48 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

it's kind of cool...

to have a core of homegrown dudes, but the ultimate goal is to win or conversely (and not necessarily in opposition to the previous point) build a model for sustainable for success.

homegrown is also a misleading term, b/c i think it’s strictly applied to dudes that a team scouts and signs and develops, but i think an organization also ought to be credited w/ players it develops into useful major leaguers. i think of dioner navarro and edwin jackson here who were both basically top drawer prospects that flamed out to the point that they were the return for toby hall and mark hendrickson. ouch.

foghat goes with everything--birdman, 5/16/08

by j.q. higgins on Aug 8, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Sure

I guess the big concern for me is that when teams begin to “compete” that’s when they are willing to sell off parts of their farm system. The Orioles aren’t ready for that. Not even close. The system requires more overhaul. If Teixeria and Dunn were to sign, I feel it would give the fans the belief that the Os could compete in ‘09; which they can’t. If they have that mentality and go out there as they did this year, it becomes inevitable that they trade prospects for some spackle and leave things as bad as they were before. Truthfully, if Teix and Dunn were free agents after the ‘09 seasons, I would be 100% behind signing them and preparing for a run in ‘10, but with the system and questionable (3-5) pitching staff I just don’t see the logic.

by Dr Orpheus on Aug 8, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I really don't want to test Aubrey Huff again

This year seems flukier than hell to me.

"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum

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Bad Left Hook

by SC on Aug 8, 2008 2:42 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

He's better than Mora out there

which appears to be our only other offer out there. No 3B’s coming up that I know of and I don’t think they’d sign a 3B FA as long as we still have Melvin on that ridiculous NTC contract.

by Stacey on Aug 8, 2008 7:08 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It's about timing

If Teixiera’s FA was coming one year later, there’d be something to talk about. Andy’s not going to bring in high-priced free agent position players with long contracts until the rest of the team is ready to for the help, like, say, 3-4 credible starters. For now, they can keep propping Millar up or play Huff, or they can move Razor over when Wieters comes up if they manage to move Huff.

by fishoutawata on Aug 7, 2008 10:46 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Razor at first

I can see it now, ball in the dirt and he just lets it go by effortlessly.

by Reddrummer9187 on Aug 7, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Oh God

don’t even get that picture in my head.

Geaux Eaux's

by NawlinsOriole on Aug 8, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Long Tangent

I think you have to try to compete in 2010-2011. Any longer timeline than that is sort of self-defeating, and based on the current structure of their roster I think that’s a reasonable timeline.

Here’s my projected 2010 roster, assuming no trades/signings are made and including only the players I feel confident will be solid major leaguers in 2010:

C Wieters $0.4MM
1B
2B
SS
3B
LF Scott $4.0MM
CF Jones $2.5MM
RF Markakis $7.0MM
DH
BN
BN
BN
BN

SP1
SP2 Guthrie $3.5MM
SP3
SP4
SP5 Cabrera $6.5MM
RP Sherrill $4.5MM
RP Johnson $0.4MM
RP Ray $4.0MM
RP
RP
RP
RP

Total committed payroll: $32.8MM

Back of Rotation: You have to hope that you can fill out two of the three rotation spots with young arms out of Olson/Liz/Penn/Patton/Tillman/Hernandez/Spoone/Bergesen/Berken/Matusz/Arrieta/Erbe. $0.8MM additional payroll.

Rest of bullpen: I think you can fill out the remaining four spots in the bullpen with guys making near the minimum from the group of Bierd/Albers/Sarfate/FCab/Cherry/Hoey/McCrory/Mickolio/Miller/Perez and failed starters from above. $5.0MM additional payroll.

Bench: Guys like Quiroz/Fahey/Bynum/Montanez/Reimold may have a role. No matter what, this shouldn’t be expensive to fix. $3.0MM total.

That brings the total to $41.6MM, with #1 starter, DH, and the four infield spots left to fill. There are a lot of different ways to fill these six holes, and assuming that a competitive Orioles can support a payroll of about $100MM, MacPhail has about $60MM to work with.

Whether he trades Roberts/Huff for ML-ready prospects, or extends Roberts and takes the draft picks for Huff, or does something completely unexpected, signing Mark Teixeira (or Adam Dunn or Ben Sheets or CC Sabathia) fits into the plan perfectly. Even if it’s a year early.

by dkdc on Aug 8, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs