Where are we going?
by Baltimo on Sep 1, 2008 5:10 PM EDT
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PrintI'm not going to make this a long post about the overall direction of the team, but seeing the lineup makes me wonder where we are headed.
Roberts (2B)
Jones (CF)
Markakis (RF)
Huff (3B)
Hernandez (C)
Scott (DH)
Millar (1B)
Payton (LF)
Castro (SS)
It it just a joke to me that Kevin Millar, Jay Payton and Juan Castro are starting on this team in September. I can kind of understand playing Huff, Roberts, Mora and Hernandez because they are producing, but the 7-9 hitters getting playing time is just flat out pathetic. Why do you call up Montanez, who obviously has no friends in the FO, and have him sit on the bench while 36 year old Jay Payton is out in left field? I understand that Montanez isn't a very good defensive outfielder yet, but who the hell cares whether Jay Payton is making plays in a season like this one. For the 11th straight season the Orioles are tanking it and Dave Trembley feels that putting Payton out there is the best decision for the team.
Maybe it is because Dave wants his option picked up, maybe the front office is telling him to do it, maybe the Orioles figure that the remaining fans are never going to leave this team anyways, or maybe Dave is just an idiot. In all likelihood, if you asked Dave Trembley why he is starting Jay Payton he would get defensive and exclaim that this team puts their heart on the line everyday and wants to win. We are going to get swept once again this series and we have Jay Payton out there doing it. Let Montanez learn. Call up Reimold and give him a chance over Millar; Reimold is going to be 26 freaking years old and he has more than proved himself in Bowie. To be honest, I'd rather give Cintron a shot at starting than putting in 36 year old .186 hitting Juan Castro in the game; the funniest part is that Castro is being touted as the "solution" and "what a relief it is" to finally have a starting shortstop. Give me a break.
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And you may ask yourself Where does that highway go?
I dunno.
Not sure why Reimold isn’t getting some time. Who else. Louie? Sure. But I have no high hopes for him. I bet Payton is playing because DD likes “experience” in Fenway, even if that experience sucks. If the O’s don’t call Reimold up, I’ll start thinking he’s not in future plans.
MacPhail has always said “patience”. He expected this entire year to be some flavor of the crap we see now. He probably hoped to see some pitching actually develop. So much for that. I think he realizes the O’s system has been long on hype and short on delivering. He’s said he not going to rush players. Looks like he’ll also play the service time game.
Now that the pitching has not materialized, and MacPhail is not likely to rush the current crop (and hopefully not screw them up like virtually every other hyped prospect), I wonder what will happen in the off season. Does this make it more likely he’ll trade Roberts for some more youth since the crap pitching pushes out this teams hopes another year or two? WIll others be dealt for some youth (Luuuke, Sherrill come to mind). Will the owner get impatient and we’ll see a flurry of free agent, in particular a pitcher or two? I think we’ll see this off season how much the front office buys into “patience”. Lord knows we have no choice, and we’ve endured this crap franchise for far longer than MacPhail.
This off season needs to show signs of life
because this team has finally jumped off the bandwagon. The clubhouse seems much more calm now that DD has taken over, but we need the new blood of callups to give this team a jolt. I want Jay Pay complaining about playing time while on the bench… It mean younger folks are getting Major League hacks and excited about it.
If this season could stop now, that wouldn’t be a bad thing.
How could he be doing his job when he didn't throw me out of the game after the things I called him?
On arguing with ump Russ Goetz.
Mark Henry Belanger
by Birdland in NC on Sep 1, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing that irks me
Is that this is not something that we can look back on and see how right MacPhail was, giving playing time to Payton(36), Millar(37) and Castro(36) is 110% not going to help us in the future. Period. Go ahead and give Liz, Olson and Burres more wasted time but do that while you play Montanez, Reimold and Cintron. Millar/Payton have been put on the trade block and no one bit, Trembley and co. cannot even justify them being in the game at all anymore. I would even be all for putting in guys like Penn and/or Scott Moore because the Orioles really have nothing to lose, the fans who are still watching could care less if the Orioles win or lose the remaining 25 games, we want to see this team look promising for the future or at least be trying. I am convinced that Reimold is being kept at AA to rack up good numbers and then be used as a trade piece, he is going to be 26 and hasn’t even been given a crack at the majors. I think Andy figures that if he calls him up he would go through rookie struggles and his trade value would decrease, we will have to wait and see how that one turns out.
The off season has a ton of promise, we have some guys who are coming off of studtastic seasons in Huff, Roberts, and Mora, with Ramon retaining quite a bit of value The Orioles should really be able to either get a nice haul in prospects if they are willing to pay off the contracts of Mora and Huff, or they should be able to at least dump the salary; something should and has to be done. Roberts is a different story, no one believes that he is a fluke and he is still a ripe age so I could easily see the Orioles trying to extend him to a 3-5 year deal. I think this is the wrong move, if the O’s are going to START to contend in 2011 then why play a 32 year old guy at leadoff, he can bring in a lot instead so that we can have sustained success.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
fwiw...
penn and scott are both injured, otherwise i think both would have been called up. neither reimold or costanzo are on the 40 man roster, iirc, though, i don’t know know at this point why you wouldn’t just waive payton and put reimold on the 40 man.
here comes the wave and the turn, here come the crash and the burn.
--mathew ryan
Reimold and Costanzo
Both need to go on the 40 in the offseason to protect them from rule 5.
So there’s certainly no harm in putting them on now. There’s plenty of dead weight that could be cut.
I can kind of understand playing Huff, Roberts, Mora and Hernandez because they are producing, but the 7-9 hitters getting playing time is just flat out pathetic.
I can understand Castro getting the ABs. The alternatives are sorry. He’s the best player defensively. Might as well play him. Cintron is the next best choice. Both suck. I really don’t care at this point.
Why do you call up Montanez, who obviously has no friends in the FO, and have him sit on the bench while 36 year old Jay Payton is out in left field?
Because Lou is rightly viewed with as a failed prospect. Once you labeled as a failed prospect, you get a lot of bench time. That said, you might as well play him. He might have some upside whereas Payton has none. But the likelihood of him having any upside seems pretty slim which is why I’m not worried about it.
Call up Reimold and give him a chance over Millar; Reimold is going to be 26 freaking years old and he has more than proved himself in Bowie.
Does Reimold play 1st? I thought he was an OF. I don’t see how cutting Millar give Reimold more playing time. But I definitely agree about giving him some playing time. Actually, screw Montanez, give his playing time to Reimold. The OF should be Reimold, Jones, and Markakis was here on out. Luke can DH and Huff can play 3rd while Mora heals.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
+1
Cintron ARE YOU SERIOUS? Can you imagine how many runs we would give up with his error per game at SS!
The point is
Who cares if Cintron gives up a ton of runs, the games are meaningless and at least Cintron has a 1 in 100 shot at making an impact on a future team, Payton has no chance at all and I just don’t get why he is in the game.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
the pitchers care
Olson and Liz have been awful in the big leagues. There confidence is at a all time low. I’m sure they’d want all the help they can get from the defense. Cintron has zero shot of ever making an impact on a future team, he’s chances are the same as Castro’s. Every team in the league had him if they wanted him, and they all passed. No chance he makes an impact for anyone 2-3 years from now (expect maybe as backup SS, which is the same role he has now).
Also,
Can someone explain to me what the clamoring is aboout with Lou Montanez? This is a guy with a career OPS .773 in the minors. He’s tore up the AA this year which is really isn’t anything special considering that this is the FOURTH time he’s repeated the league. He was quite unremarkable in AAA last year in 69 games. And he was unremarkable in AAA in 2006. And his defense isn’t all great! Good grief, this guy should feel thankful he’s in the majors. And why he’s getting ABs over Reimold is ridiculous.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
What have you done for me lately?
After storming through AA Bowie this season, winning the Triple Crown without finishing the season, he gets called up to replace Adam Jones, and all he does is hit .340/.377/.460 for a healthy .837 OPS. Not too shabby. Reimold is a legit prospect, that’s why he didn’t get called up, we’re being more careful with him. However, I’ll take Lou and his .837 OPS over Jay Payton and his sorry .255/.298/.369 ass any day, as that’s a freaking .667 OPS. He’s awful.
If Lou keeps hitting, the Orioles should keep playing him. If he doesn’t stop, then we got a legit player out of nowhere. Sometimes you have to take the gifts when you get them.
all he does is hit .340/.377/.460 for a healthy .837 OPS. Not too shabby.
In 50 ABs. Lou hasn’t even shown the ability to hit AAA pitching. Lou and Jay are both useless. But yes, you might play his sorry ass over Jay since he’s younger. See, this is why it’s depressing to be Orioles fan. People are getting worked up because the O’s aren’t giving enough ABs to a sorry ass AA player.
Reimold is a legit prospect, that’s why he didn’t get called up, we’re being more careful with him.
Well, the dude’s already 24. He’s played well at AA. If it wasn’t for injuries, he should have been up at AAA this entire season. I understand the value of being careful, but come on, it’s garbage time, let the kid get some ABs Then send him to AFL and AAA next year. If he does well, he should be the first OF to get a call up next year.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Montanez and Reimold
Seriously, why all the hate for Lou? The man is 26 years old and continues to show the ability to hit the ball. I am not saying he won’t cool off, but he has some pop and earned some respect with the bat. You are campaining Reimold because he is 24 years old over Montanez, and it is because you were told Reimold was the best thing since sliced bread to come out of our farm system (then Wieters showed up and took the bread away). Montanez out hit Reimold in AA and deserved a shot that he is performing with. I want to see him get more AB’s to see if he is truly worthy of starting in LF next year or if he is a 4th outfielder.
Here are your reasons as to why Montanez is not worthy:
In 50 ABs. Lou hasn’t even shown the ability to hit AAA pitching
You realize Reimold, this year, showed he could hit AA pitching and stay healthy for the first time. The man hasn’t played a full season at the AA level until this year, and you use that excuse to say Lou hasn’t earned a shot. It is a hypocritical statement, and it doesn’t make sense to use it.
See, this is why it’s depressing to be Orioles fan. People are getting worked up because the O’s aren’t giving enough ABs to a sorry ass AA player.
I’m confused because when someone wins the triple crown, it typically means they have at least a little bit of skill. Again, I am not saying he does exactly this in the majors, but when you find a gem that is not younger than 25 (Scott, Guthrie) and is able to produce for your major league ball club, then you have to relish in it. Even if he turns out to be a one year wonder, then at least you got use out of him.
let the kid get some ABs Then send him to AFL and AAA next year. If he does well, he should be the first OF to get a call up next year.
Montanez will already be here next year. He won’t be a call up because he will already be on the roster. The Orioles can make the same assessment by giving Reimold spring training AB’s next year than to bring him to the bigs right now. September call-ups should be for those people who the organization plans to use on the big league roster the next year. If the plan, even by your words, is to start him at AAA, then he doesn’t belong here in the bigs.
It just seems to me that you are so drawn in to the hype of Nolan Reimold when this is the first time he’s played above A-ball for an entire season. If he is so great, we don’t want his MLB service time starting until next year, and we want him to be healthy. He has had over 500 AB’s this season for the first time in his career. I am glad he is staying down, and I hope he continues tearing it up in the AFL. Until then, you should be happy that his teammate, who out performed him, is already here and playing well.
What it should have looked like
Seriously, why all the hate for Lou? The man is 26 years old and continues to show the ability to hit the ball. I am not saying he won’t cool off, but he has some pop and earned some respect with the bat. You are campaining Reimold because he is 24 years old over Montanez, and it is because you were told Reimold was the best thing since sliced bread to come out of our farm system (then Wieters showed up and took the bread away). Montanez out hit Reimold in AA and deserved a shot that he is performing with. I want to see him get more AB’s to see if he is truly worthy of starting in LF next year or if he is a 4th outfielder.
Here are your reasons as to why Montanez is not worthy:
In 50 ABs. Lou hasn’t even shown the ability to hit AAA pitching
You realize Reimold, this year, showed he could hit AA pitching and stay healthy for the first time. The man hasn’t played a full season at the AA level until this year, and you use that excuse to say Lou hasn’t earned a shot. It is a hypocritical statement, and it doesn’t make sense to use it.
See, this is why it’s depressing to be Orioles fan. People are getting worked up because the O’s aren’t giving enough ABs to a sorry ass AA player.
I’m confused because when someone wins the triple crown, it typically means they have at least a little bit of skill. Again, I am not saying he does exactly this in the majors, but when you find a gem that is not younger than 25 (Scott, Guthrie) and is able to produce for your major league ball club, then you have to relish in it. Even if he turns out to be a one year wonder, then at least you got use out of him.
let the kid get some ABs Then send him to AFL and AAA next year. If he does well, he should be the first OF to get a call up next year.
Montanez will already be here next year. He won’t be a call up because he will already be on the roster. The Orioles can make the same assessment by giving Reimold spring training AB’s next year than to bring him to the bigs right now. September call-ups should be for those people who the organization plans to use on the big league roster the next year. If the plan, even by your words, is to start him at AAA, then he doesn’t belong here in the bigs.
It just seems to me that you are so drawn in to the hype of Nolan Reimold when this is the first time he’s played above A-ball for an entire season. If he is so great, we don’t want his MLB service time starting until next year, and we want him to be healthy. He has had over 500 AB’s this season for the first time in his career. I am glad he is staying down, and I hope he continues tearing it up in the AFL. Until then, you should be happy that his teammate, who out performed him, is already here and playing well.
Reimold has never failed
While Montanez has failed repeatedly. You can’t just throw out the last 8 years of data that say, emphatically, that Montanez is not a major league hitter.
It’s possible that Lou has turned a corner, but it’s far more likely that he’s just having a career year.
Exactly
The organization said they are auditioning Montanez for the 4th outfielder job for next year with the possibility of him winning the left field spot. He has played well as the 4th outfielder, but I think it his time for trying to play everyday in LF. If Reimold can’t win the job out of spring training, we would be looking for a LF anyway.
With Millar probably going to the way of free agency, Scott would get moved to DH and LF would be wide open. I would gladly take Montanez in LF at this point while Reimold forces his way onto the team at AAA next year. Reimold has been injured and that’s where he has failed, by no fault of his own. I see Montanez starting in LF next year with Reimold in AAA.
I think that would align with what MacPhail has been preaching
Specifically, not rushing up the minor leaguers. As much as I’d like to see him audition (I basically said so above), it will be no surprise if Reimold stays down. Montanez is on the 40 man roster so please audition him instead of giving Payton any more playing time.
There just isn’t much youth ready to cycle up. The position player slots on the 40 man roster are loaded with useless infielders, thanks to the SS shuffle we’ve seen all year.
As for pitching we’re going to see the continued churn with the current cast of characters as the O’s look for someone, anyone to take advantage of the opportunity. Trembley said as much in one of his post game conferences. Guys on the 40 man roster: Bierd, Burres, F Cabrera, Castillo, Cherry, Cormier, Liz, Mickolio, Miller, Olson, Penn, Sarfate, Waters, sigh. (Yeah some are on the DL).
September has suck written all over it. In the meanwhile, boards will clamor over Reimold and Montanez. I’m rooting for a good draft position.
You realize Reimold, this year, showed he could hit AA pitching and stay healthy for the first time. The man hasn’t played a full season at the AA level until this year, and you use that excuse to say Lou hasn’t earned a shot. It is a hypocritical statement, and it doesn’t make sense to use it.
WTF? As dkdc said, Montanez has a history of sorry battting against AAA hitting. AAA hitting! He hit AA hitting this year after repeating the league the 4 TIMES. Reimold is repeating AA after being injured much of last year. It doesn’t make sense to say that I’ve made hypocrtical statement.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Yes it does
You made an argument about Montanez that can be used against Reimold. Markakis never faced AAA pitching, and I don’t put either of these players in that mold, but he worked out. Montanez is learning in the bigs and holding his own and doing well. Also, he was held back in the minors because of a position switch from SS to LF.
You made an argument about Montanez that can be used against Reimold.
Come on Pdub, Reimold is a prospect. Montanez is not a prospect. You don’t think developing prospects should take priority over non-prospects. Besides, I’m not even quite sure you’re interpreting my point correctly. Reimold and Montanez are not really comparable. As said before, my ammo against Montanez is that he has a history of failed hitting at a AAA level. Reimold hasn’t even made it to AAA.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Your argument would make sense if he wasn’t in the bigs hitting well. Yes, he had failed the two previous years to make a significant impact at AAA, and he was doing that at the age Reimold is now.
I will come out and say I expect him to be the starting LF next year if Scott gets moved to DH and Huff to 1B. Reimold may be able to outplay him and win over a spot and push him to a 4th outfielder, but I would say right now he has to be the favorite to start next year’s opening day. That is the real reason he should be playing now.
I am happy with Reimold this season, and I hope he comes back in the spring and gives them hell. He will be 25 next year and Montanez will be 27 and both played really well this year. This is exactly type of position battle we want to have as an organization because both of them will have to step up and play well if they want a spot on the big league team.
Your argument would make sense if he wasn’t in the bigs hitting well.
Come on pdub, it’s 50ish ABs!!!! 50! I mean do you know many O’s OFs have come and gone with success in a short sample size. If the O’s make any type of decision based on such a small sample, god help us.
I will come out and say I expect him to be the starting LF next year if Scott gets moved to DH and Huff to 1B.
If Montanez is our starting LF next year… oh, I don’t want to even think about the possibility.
I am happy with Reimold this season, and I hope he comes back in the spring and gives them hell. He will be 25 next year and Montanez will be 27 and both played really well this year. This is exactly type of position battle we want to have as an organization because both of them will have to step up and play well if they want a spot on the big league team.
Reimold is a legit prospect. Montanez is not. If the O’s don’t think he’s ready, fine, send him to AAA. Otherwise, the team better not impend the development of Reimold in order to get Montanez ABs.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
It just seems to me that you are so drawn in to the hype of Nolan Reimold when this is the first time he’s played above A-ball for an entire season.
WTF?! Reimold is middling prospect. KLaw projects him to be an average to slightly above OF. He’s a type of guy who will probably be a good player when cheap. That said, Reimold is actual prospect, not a failed retrend like Montanez. And I think the development of prospects should take priority over failed ones. OK?
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
So...
You are stuck on tags? Montanez, at 26, took much longer to develop after being a high school draft pick. It took him to the age of where a college draft pick would be at a make or break to develop into a major leaguer. He just did not live up to high school phenom status, and I will give you that.
Reimold was a college player that was slowed a year because of injuries. Another year at AAA to hone his skills won’t kill him nor will it hurt the team if Montanez is an average LF because, as you said, Reimold is only projected to be an average or slightly above LF anyway. So, my question will remain, why are you on this huge push for Reimold if you think he will only be average?
i'd like to say...
luke scott didn’t start kicking ass until he was a 26 year old at aa. that’s turned out okay. in fact, i think reimold and scott are pretty fair comps, ceptin one’s a lefty and one’s a righty. from what i recall reading reimold’s solid in the field, though i’m satisfied w/ the way luke scott has handled left. didn’t really realize it before last night, but he’s kind of got a cannon.
here comes the wave and the turn, here come the crash and the burn.
--mathew ryan
luke scott didn’t start kicking ass until he was a 26 year old at aa. that’s turned out okay. in fact, i think reimold and scott are pretty fair comps,
and in case pdub wants to use scott as an example of why Montanez could be… .whatever the hell he projects him to be, Scott TORE up AAA unlike Montanez.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
You are stuck on tags? Montanez, at 26, took much longer to develop after being a high school draft pick. It took him to the age of where a college draft pick would be at a make or break to develop into a major leaguer. He just did not live up to high school phenom status, and I will give you that.
Dude, that’s how minor league experts typically project players. Guys who have repeatedly failed at upper levels at an advanced age are generally not seen as regulars anymore because these guys usually suck.
So, my question will remain, why are you on this huge push for Reimold if you think he will only be average?
Because Reimold is younger and still has upside. Plus, it’s only a projection. Brian Roberts wasn’t projected to be much of player either. At this point, I would rather see Reimold regular at bats at AAA next year then sit on the bench. If the O’s want to use Montanez as a fourth OF than Reimold, that’s fine by me.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
My main point is
What the hell do we have to lose? That question can be applied to everything said in this thread. Yes Montanez has been largely unsuccessful over his minor league career. So what. Find a way to get him into the lineup, give him two months and if he doesn’t show up then cut him; he sure as hell hasn’t been given a chance yet and he deserves one. I just get so frustrated beause the lineup for the O’s is made up mostly of guys who we know aren’t going to have any impact on future contending teams, so why the hell play them.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
What the hell do we have to lose?
Nothing really. My point is that who gaves a fuck. Montanez sucks, Jay sucks. Who cares? If you going to give any a shot, let’s give to Reimold who actually has some upside. Otherwise, I can’t see why people are raising such a stink about Montanez. It’s depressing that we’re even having this discussion over whether to play Montanez over Jay. At least in the past, guys like Knott or House had a strong minor league track record. Montanez doesn’t even have that. .
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
If I remember correctly
Montanez was in the discussion for #1 overall draft pick a while ago which probably leads to some hype coupled with the fact that he had a mind blowing season. But back to the point, you can think that Montanez stinks all you want, but there can be absolutely no case made for playing Jay Payton over him. If Montanez has a .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of batting close to league average, he should get a chance over Jay Payton. Payton has no future. Montanez does.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
and just to give analogy
Jay v Lou debate = if two friends were at a restaurant and started to complain that the menu only has a shitburger (jay) when the restaurant should be serving a shitburger with cheese (lou) while ignoring the fact that there’s a decent restaurant across the street having an early bird special (Reimold).
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Right
But there isn’t anything we can do about that. If you ask me, Reimold has been injured before and now they are just keeping him at Bowie while he posts good numbers to showcase him. If I am correct, which I even dont think I am, Reimold is being kept at AA so as to keep his trade value relatively high so that he can be shipped off with Huff/Mora/Roberts to get a really solid prospect. I mean a Reimold/Huff package could/should bring us back at least one B+ level prospect if they other team is willing to pay off Huffs deal. Reimold isn’t reallllly being blocked, but he kind of is and can can definitely spare to lose a 25 year old injury plagued guy for a stud 3B/SS/1B prospect. I have a wish list but I don’t really think anyone in the FO has the balls to trade Roberts and Huff for anything of value.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Bowie is in the playoffs
I think Reimold is still in Bowie because they are in the playoffs. The O’s probably feel that AA playoff ABs are more valuable to his development than worthless MLB ABs. At least in Bowie he can learn to hit in the clutch. The O’s don’t NEED him in the majors, so why not let him finish what he has started? I imagine he (and Bergeson, Berken, and Hernandez) will be in Baltimore when Bowie’s season has ended.
also
ML clubs like to let their minor league clubs keep all their good players for the playoffs to keep the ownership/marketing people of those clubs happy.
Its because of the strange arrangement whereby the teams own the players’ contracts but not the clubs themselves. They are all affiliated, and they have to keep the business relationship cordial.
Bowie wasn't in the playoffs a little ways back
And Reimold was no worse/better than he is now if you ask me. Before Bowie started making their playoff push the Orioles were already deemed sellers and Reimold could have been called up; however, they did pull Montanez who went on to win the triple crown when the Baysox were making their push to overtake Akron. Reimold has had 700 AB’s at Bowie and hasn’t gone through terrible ups and downs, the guy has been pretty consistent. Reimold being left at Bowie for the playoffs can be used as a weak justification for keeping him there, but the Orioles FO didn’t care enough to leave Montanez and/or get Arrieta back in time.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Arrieta and Montanez
is in Frederick and has nothing to do with Bowie.
Montanez would not have seen the light of day this year except for a possible september call-up had Adam Jones not been injured. The Orioles must have liked him and wanted to see if he was for real and capable of playing for them next year. Well, he has played well and he is probably a lock for the 4th outfield job and a candidate to start in LF.
Well, he has played well and he is probably a lock for the 4th outfield job and a candidate to start in LF.
Tike Redman probably thought the same thing last year.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
That is a bad argument
When you put it in context as Tike Redman is 31 years old vs. 26 for Montanez. I do understand your point that Montanez has a very high chance of not being on the team next year, though.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
true enough
But I suspect they are viewed similarly by the O’s: the dreaded org player… so I think it’s a perfectly good argument!
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Done Arguing
You are dead set on Montanez being a piece of shit player who deserves to be on an independent league team somewhere, and Reimold should be the God of prospects that should be batting clean-up for this team.
Regardless of your intentions, that is how you are arguing your case. Reimold has not shown he is elite by any means, and he put together a nice bounce back season after spending most of the year before on the DL.
.284, 25HR, 84RBI, .868 OPS (Reimold in 507 AB)
.335, 26HR, 97RBI, .968 OPS (Montanez in 451 AB)
You can’t argue with the numbers of who deserves the shot regardless of past performance. Honestly, I can’t remember when 26 years was considered old.
You are dead set on Montanez being a piece of shit player who deserves to be on an independent league team somewhere, and Reimold should be the God of prospects that should be batting clean-up for this team.
My god man, I don’t know why you’re so pissed at me. Look, Montanez has not shown any ability to hit pitching beyond AA besides 50ish ABs. 50ish ABs is quite meaningless, if that makes me unreasonable then oh well, but I think most SABER orientated people think this way as well.
Reimold has not shown he is elite by any means, and he put together a nice bounce back season after spending most of the year before on the DL.
And I never said Reimold is an elite prospect. I even cited K-Law who projects him to be an average to slightly above average OF!!!!
You can’t argue with the numbers of who deserves the shot regardless of past performance. Honestly, I can’t remember when 26 years was considered old.
Montanez has better AA numbers (is that what you cited?), but who cares, he repeated league FOUR TIMES. That’s why they’re not comparable…. am I not being clear about this point? And 26 isn’t a problem per se… if he’s shown the ability to tear up AAA pitching like Knott or House, then I would be much more inclined to give him a shot.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
saw this from Jim Callis chat
Dan (DC): Montanez or Reimold?
Jim Callis: Reimold.
Dan = Pdub?
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
The point of my post
Was that I was refuting the argument that Reimold is still in Bowie becuase they want him for the playoffs. Arrieta could have easily gone from Beijing to Bowie and pitched in the pen for the stretch just like how Erbe was called up so as to continue his season. The Baysox/Orioles were willing to take away the EL’s best hitter but not an above average outfielder? Montanez was an obligatory call up if you ask me, when you post those kinds of numbers you have to give the guy a half assed shot and the injury of Jones just expediated that process as you mentioned. There is something behind Reimold not being at least moved to Norfolk as he has had already 700 AB’s at Bowie. That being said, Andy seems to be EXTREMELY cautious with his prospects and makes up his mind before the season that he is going to ease them through the levels.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
You may think its a weak argument. Yet David Price and Michael Bowden are both still with their minor league teams for the playoffs. In fact Bowden was sent back down from Boston for the playoffs. Both Tampa Bay and Boston may actually need these guys to push them into the playoffs. So I guess other teams besides the O’s feel that the minor league playoffs are important to their player’s development.
I'm not saying that you are wrong
I think that the Orioles are certainly trying to help Bowie with the addition of Erbe and apparent intentions of putting Arrieta with the Baysox, I just think that the whole premise of keeping Reimold there for the playoffs is a weak justification for showcasing him as a trade piece.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
ok i see
I guess we’ll find out the O’s true intentions after Bowie’s season is over. If Reimold isn’t called up they probably want to trade him. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Our OF is full as of now. Plus Reimold has an injury history, which could be a lingering problem. An offseason trade would be a nice option to keep open. I can see him being like Hayden Penn a few years ago. A prospect to trade when his value is high.
I think
That Trembley is comprable to George W. Bush in that he really thinks that he is doing what is right; the guy honestly believes that as “paying” Orioles fans we want to see the “best” team on the field and see the Birds win rather than lose while building towards the future.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
You know what is so hilarious, not to mention classy?
Showing your dislike for someone by referring to them as gay.
[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8
I posed it in the game thread
But we could definitely move up to 4th overall.
Baltimore 63 75
Cincinnati 61 77
Atlanta 60 80
San Francisco 59 79
Kansas City 58 79
Pittsburgh 58 79
Seattle 54 84
San Diego 53 85 .
Washington 53 86
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
There is an insider at OriolesHangout
And although he isn’t always right, a lot of the time he is pretty accurate with the stuff he reports. Check this out.
As usual read into this as little or as much as you want….
- DT has been asking for outside help for a while but has not gotten any.
- Very doubtful we make more than a token run at Tex. He does not think we’ll pay anyone over $12 million a season.
- With the thin FA catching market the front office feels it will be able to deal Ramon Hernandez. Would take a starter or reliever in return.
- Will acquire a veteran SS this off season. Will look to trade a pitching prospect for a ss prospect.
- I asked who the first pitching prospect (out of the guys AA and down) to join the Orioles rotation for more than just a call up and he said Arrieta. Most all scouts feel he could handle it now.
- I asked about the pen… A lot will depend on how Baez and Ray look in spring training. He felt for certain we would acquire at least one arm via trade or free agency.
- No intention to deal Huff. Roberts is a different story.
- He said he has not heard of a Markakis extension already being done. AM must be keeping this close to the vest if true.
- I asked if Reimold has ticked someone off and was told not that he’s aware of. They were looking for him to get thru a season healthy which he did. He’ll be given a good look to make the team in 2009.
Most of those just make me sick to my stomach. Dave Trembley has actually gone to the FO and asked for, presumably, veteran (30+) relievers in an attempt to stop the inevitable skid even though this team is going nowhere in particular. The Orioles also have no intention of trading 32 year old breakout season Aubrey Huff who has an OPS of .945 and could pull in legitimate prospect(s). Baez is going to be given another shot, does anyone remember how, now 31 year old, Danys Baez performed last season? Anyone? And lastly, instead of looking to call up David Hernandez (23) or Brad Bergesen (23), the O’s are leaning towards giving a look at Jake Arrieta who has pitched half a season at A ball and then went off to face pathetic competition in China. I don’t know how much I want to buy into these things, but this guy looks like he actually sat down with Trembley and the Dave actually stated that this is the direction that the franchise wants to go.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
OH Insider is more for entertainment purposes...
I saw this as well.
Huff – I doubt he can get a whole lot. I am concerned that his asking price is too high, but other GMs prolly know that Huff is flukey. But maybe we can get a good young player for him. I doubt it though.
Baez – he’s a sunk cost, so I have no problem seeing if he can a good year next year. Relievers are volatile so it’s possible he gets us a PTBNL next August. Woot.
Arrieta – I can’t imagine they are actually going to have him skip AA next year. I would imagine the front office is more excited about Arrieta than they are about Hernandez, Bergeson and Berken, which is reasonable.
Roberts – I’d be thrilled if they traded him, as I see it as a necessary evil to get better in the long term. We need infield prospects in the worst way.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Sep 7, 2008 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Arrieta – I can’t imagine they are actually going to have him skip AA next year.
They won’t. They’ll stick in AA, once R. Liz or Olson starts to sucks, and they will suck next year, Arrieta will be the top choice if he’s performing well in AA.
Baez – he’s a sunk cost, so I have no problem seeing if he can a good year next year. Relievers are volatile so it’s possible he gets us a PTBNL next August. Woot.
I could see actually being useful next year if he’s healthy. Nothing special mind you, 4.25ish ERA, but alot better than Cherry and other crap we’ve been rolling out (which is, of course, a low bar to set for Baez).
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Very doubtful we make more than a token run at Tex. He does not think we’ll pay anyone over $12 million a season.
Good. He’s not worth the money. BTW, for those hoping Dunn will do a 4 year, 48M type of deal, i hear Dunn is looking for something in the 100M range.
With the thin FA catching market the front office feels it will be able to deal Ramon Hernandez. Would take a starter or reliever in return.
The only thing the O’s will get is a 27-28 year org filler type of guy.
I asked who the first pitching prospect (out of the guys AA and down) to join the Orioles rotation for more than just a call up and he said Arrieta. Most all scouts feel he could handle it now.
Not Penn, interesting, I guess he’s trade fodder if anyone wants him.
No intention to deal Huff. Roberts is a different story.
I’m glad Roberts is on the block but not trading huff is stupid. Although, I know Huff has gawdy stats but he really won’t pull in much as a DH (and most teams won’t view him more than a DH). His inability to play a position, perceived or real, really hampers the team’s ability to trade him to a NL team. In the AL, the only possible fits are the Twins and Tigers. Given the paucity of potential suitors. I’m seeing a return of one low end prospect and a 26ish old reliever for Huff.
Wolf, wolf, wolf.
Regarding Huff
It seems like both you and dfa believe that he wouldn’t bring much back in return, but the underlying reason for that is because no one wants to pay him $9 million next year unless he can play a position in the field. I don’t think that GM’s view his hitting stats as flukely, but rather aren’t willing to pay top dollar for him along with forking over a prospect because they would not even be getting a position player in return. That is fine with me, we can pay it. Instead of going out and making bids for Burnett or Garland or any other 30+ player, couple Huff with Reimold and pay off the majority of his salary for a top tier middle infield prospect. You can make a very strong argument that Reimold is being blocked anyways.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
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