Rosenthal: O's considering 39-year old Jim Edmonds at 1B

by SC on Jan 10, 2009 10:25 AM EST in 2009 Free Agency Comment 43 comments

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Orioles have shown interest in Jim Edmonds as a first baseman. I haven't heard this, but anything's possible. It would be a curious move, however, given that they'd prefer a right-handed bat.

Edmonds was a spark for the Cubs last season, hitting .256/.369/.568 with 19 homers in 250 at-bats after looking completely, 100% finished with the Padres. His decline began in 2006, and he's going to be 39 in June.

If he could hit like he did with the Cubs, he's a great help. Preferring a right-handed bat is ... well, whatever. Ryan Garko is a right-handed bat, but he's really not very good, and Peter Schmuck says he's told the Orioles and Indians have had no discussions about Garko anyway.

A few brief thoughts:

Edmonds > Millar, period.
If they think it's a good idea to run Chris Gomez out there in a platoon role at first base, they're bonkers. He's a nice guy to have around, but as much as I don't mind having Gomey back, he hit .273/.322/.333 last season with the Pirates. He's 38. It's about time his extended career collapses.
Can't we just play Huff at first base, Scott at DH, and figure out Montanez or Reimold in left field during spring training? Adding a player for addition's sake seems silly, and with names like Richie Sexson and Jim Edmonds floating around, it's really all we're talking about.
At least no one's mentioned Darin Erstad.

Poll

Jim Edmonds: Yea or Nay?

Yea!

113 votes

Nay!

161 votes

274 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I'd say nay

For one, at this stage of his career, Edmonds seems like a guy that needs a pennant race to thrive off of. The past decade hes been playing for the Cardinals, which staged one of the better runs in baseball history really. With the Orioles being out of it by May and playing in front of 15k crowds, I can definitely see Edmounds flopping like he did with the Padres.

And secondly, hes just not a full time player. The past three years against lefties, hes posted OPSes of .441, .631, .479. Seeing as how this team will need 13 pitchers for probably the better part of the season, I can’t see the need to bring in a guy like Edmonds with roster space at a premium.

by UMterp08 on Jan 10, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ummmm....

…are we even looking at Adam Dunn? Why are we considering these washed-up has beens at 1B when there’s a legit, good slugger in his prime still waiting to be signed?

by Jonny Pops on Jan 10, 2009 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

football mentality

strikeouts
doesn’t run to his position
doesn’t like baseball
hates baseball
hates it with his whole entire heart
STRIKEOUTS

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."

by SC on Jan 10, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cause we dont want to spend the money

by sanders833 on Jan 10, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

It would not cost as much as you think, look at Pat Burrell. I think if you put 3 years 36 million on the table he might bite, and that is not a contract that would cripple us financially.

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 10, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen.

The market for Dunn just doesn’t seem to be there, at least until Manny and other corner OF types sign. Milton Bradley only got 3/30 and despite being bugfuck crazy, I’d bet many teams value him over Dunn. At least throw a feeler at the guy and see what happens.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 10, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What's his OBP again?

And tell me WHY we don’t want him at age 29?

Chick dig the long ball. Sign him, Andy.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Jan 10, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn's career OBP

is .381

I live in AZ part of the year and when the Dbacks picked him up I swear this guy was on base 3 times a game, every single game. He finished his Dbacks career with 42 walks in 44 games and an OBP of .417.

Not sure what Dunn’s agent is asking for but I think we would be crazy not to at least attempt to sign him.

by 7Swords of Salat on Jan 10, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OBP cont.

Dunn had a higher OBP last year than all of the following players:

Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Jose Reyes, A.Soriano, Aramis Ramirez, Carlos Beltran, Prince Fielder, Derek Lee, BJ Upton, Brian Roberts, Dustin Pedroia, Grady Sizemore, Justin Morneau, Bobby Abrue, Vlad Guerrero, Derek Jeter, Curtis Granderson, Ichiro, A. Huff, MIguel Cabrera, Jermaine Dye

by 7Swords of Salat on Jan 10, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes he can get on

and we know he can hit with power.

But he cant play defense, he strikes out 185 times or more a year, and he isnt considered a highly motivated player. Since he fans so much, he can be pitched to in critical situations which negates some of his value to carry a team.

So there are pros and cons. If Dunn falls into the Ibanez/Milton Bradley price range the O’s need to take a look, I dont care about the cons at $10 mil a year for three years. That makes Dunn a rule breaker at that price…for a .400 obp and 40 plus homers I would pay $10 mil for the next three years considered in the last two years I dont have that much in the way of payroll committments. Now if we sign Roberts that might change the equation, esp at $10 mil for him a year as well.

by sanders833 on Jan 11, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He wouldn't have to play defense

if he came to the Os. The man is a born DH.

Ans as for “high motivation,” can anyone really claim that Manny is a highly motivated player? I don’t think so, yet he is one of the greatest hitters of all time. Now Dunn is not in that league, but my point is this: in baseball, I will take talent (.400 OBP and 40 dingers) over “heart” (quantifiable how, exactly?) any day of the week and twice on sunday.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 11, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes he is

but that is 10 million dollars not committed to a defensive position, there is a cost to that.

HIgh motivation means a number of things. One thing that Manny has done very well is maintain his playing weight and physical regimen. Dunn has been questioned about this “work ethic”. I think I read he lost 20 pounds this winter (can someone confirm that). Hope he doesnt pull a Prince Fielder power shortage. For some reason, I wonder if Dunn’s baseball instincts are also being questioned. I really havent seen him play so I cant say.

Still, I think my post says at the right price I am on board. But I really think the O’s dont want to spend any more money then absolutely necessary for 2009. Otherwise, why arent we talking to this guy?

by sanders833 on Jan 11, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What does "baseball instincts" mean?

Does that have to do with “taking the extra base” and all that kind of stuff? Because if so, Bill James will tell you that Dunn is actually a good baserunner in that regard. I don’t see that signing him simply to DH somehow creates a cost for “not committing the money to a position.” Designated Hitter IS a position in the American League and you want to pay someone to HIT. Dunn can do that. Where’s the downside? I don’t think the Os ARE going to go after him because they don’t want to spend any money, but if it would mean spending a little more to sign him, as opposed to signing Jim Edmonds, where’s the downside?

I also say the potential of a “Prince Fielder power shortage” is extremely slim. It’s more likely that the Fielder of 2006 and 2008 IS the real Fielder (25-30 dingers) as opposed to the Fielder of 2007, with his outlying 56 HR.

Dunn, on the other hand, has hit 40 dingers for six straight years. He is also not a great big fat guy like Prince Fielder is. Nobody’d call him svelte, but as I believe SC once said, Fielder is fat for a guy at Target or Arby’s, for a regular average guy, he’s fat. This doesn’t lead to consistency.

As far as the Ks…I don’t care. Strikeouts aren’t that bad, really. Better than hitting into DPs (just ask Earl). Lots of the guys on his comp list at baseball-reference struck out a hell of a lot too (Strawberry and Reggie Jackson come to mind, #s 1 and 5) but they never got stuck with the “hates baseball so very very much” label. Now, they were both certainly more valuable fielders than Dunn was, but the point is, objections to his potential utility to the Os (Ks, doesn’t love baseball like Joe Shlabotnik does, can’t play D) are FAR outweighed by the fact that he would hit 40 HR (nobody else on our team will do that) and get on base at an elite level (only Markakis will do that) and that he won’t have to play defense.

Will we sign him? Of course not. Should we at least explore it? Absofrickinglutely. Why? Because he MIGHT actually result in a few extra wins over the next few years, as opposed to Jim Edmonds or Millar or whoever else they ultimately sign and call “our new power bat.”

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 11, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“I think it’s probably fair to say that Adam Dunn, for all his obvious talents, can be a remarkably frustrating player to watch. He is a dreadful left fielder, a designated hitter in outfielder’s clothes. He’s slow*. He strikes out a ton. He hits .225 with runners in scoring position for his career (and over his career he has never hit better than .248 in those situations). He walks (797 times) about as often as he gets a hit (955 hits) — those walks might be good for value but that doesn’t make them fun to watch. There is a sense around the game that he does not especially like playing baseball; and nobody who has watched him play with any regularity would argue that he demonstrates Willie Mays’ joy.”

I took this from a blog this morning which I think sums up what I have been trying to say about Dunn. The asterisk about his being slow covers the part about him being a good baserunner and up until this year Dunn scored a 100 runs a season which is also a good sign that he can get home when he gets on.

I am going to argue the point about the DH being a position. Since he can be filled by any offensive player, it is not an efficient use of resources. Getting value for payroll is also a GM’s job. Since the O’s may be budgeting around 70 million a year for a while then Dunn at 10 mil is just under 15% and Dunn at 13 mil is almost 20%.

As for a few more wins, well Millar or Edmunds will cost a mil a year. Dunn at 10-13 mil better bring in a few more wins.

Drop the k’s argument and look at the batting avg. He can be pitched to. He doesnt play defense, he is not an efficient use of payroll. At the right price ok but it has to be right and as you said I just dont think the O’s want to spend and more importantly dont want to hitch up the wagon to Adam.

by sanders833 on Jan 12, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And yet you leave out the REST of that blog

which goes on to compare the Adam Dunn “Hates baseball but is good at it” type to the Willie “Bleeds Baseball but Sucks at It” Bloomquist type, where Posnanski goes on to say that, while you can’t make up a team ALL of Dunns, you’d certainly rather have Dunns than Bloomquists.

So your argument is two fold:

1. Hates baseball so very much that he’s boring to watch
2. He has a low batting AVG.

To which I say:
1. Boring to watch is a team that loses 90 goddamn games a year
2. His career OBP is .381, higher than everyone on the Os but Nick, making anything to do with batting AVG irrelevant. That’s what AVG is compared to OBP: irrelevant. And before you bring up AVG with RISP, just what kind of players have been there to get on base for him?

And sure, the DH can be filled by any offensive player but from the DH spot you value ONE thing: offense (however you want to quantify that…I prefer OBP over all else) Dunn GIVES it to you. Putting Cezar Izturis there is a waste of resources. Putting Dunn there is not.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 12, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Time for us both to take a breath

as its pretty obvious the O’s are probably aiming for boring this year….

by sanders833 on Jan 12, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, yer prolly right

and damnit I just wanna see them do better. I’m sure you do as well.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 12, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

See I get pissed

when I look at Atlanta.

There rotation going into the offseason was Jair Jurgen and a bunch of arms. They tried for Peavy, Furcal and lost Smoltz (which in the end is probably better for them).

But they add Lowe, Vazquez (who should be much better in the NL) and add a Japanese starter mostly from money they would have paid Smoltz for this year. Plus, Tommy Hanson, hello rotation overhaul in one year.

In the NL East, they are now competitive. Still have money to spend and free agent bats rusting on the vine….and some youngsters ready to help in the minors.

That frustrates me.

by sanders833 on Jan 13, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well..

does it frustrate you because they spent to become competitive and the Os didn’t? Or because in the NL East it’s possible to do that? I’m unclear.

I don’t think that rotation overhaul would get it done for the Os in 09, not sure if that’s what you meant or not.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 13, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well yes

The Braves and O’s had the same season in 2008. We draft next to each other in 2009. Both teams had one reliable starter ending the season (Jair Jurgens vs Jeremy). Compare the Braves offense to the O’s and I make the case the O’s are better.

The Braves laid out their strategy this offseason (acquire two starters) and executed it, even with a number of setbacks (Peavy, Furcal and Smoltz). They got Javy V, Lowe, and the Japanese starter. I suspect they arent quite finished with offensive upgrades and have minor leaguers ready to add in Hanson, Heyward and others.

So yes, I am frustrated that the O’s couldnt lay out a plan to get competitive-trade Roberts for two starting pitcher prospects, sign two free agent pitchers (at least one higher end) and say add Orlando Hudson and still have all your prospects. A competitive team in my opinion with an influx of minor leaguers coming and still having payroll flexibility starting in 2010 even after signing two free agent pitchers.

Also, I am frustrated that in the AL East you either upgrade or your out before the season started. But Tampa did it right and the O’s havent. I know Andy feels that is the way he has to as well and since almost all of the Orioles incoming prospects are pitchers I guess Andy is going to wait and see what he has.

But 2009 is going to be butt awful. I thought last year would be bad but the influx of talent in NY, Boston and even Tampa is going to put a beat down on the O’s and I am frustrated, patient and understanding yes, but frustrated.

by sanders833 on Jan 13, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Boring to watch is a team that loses 90 goddamn games a year"

Hey, look on the bright side. We’re not the Nationals.

by blawk359 on Jan 13, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm thinking of staging an intervention

for people who, when listing negatives about Adam Dunn, include that he strikes out a lot. It’s ok, I used to think that too. As I’m recovered from this condition I feel qualified to lead such an intervention.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Jan 11, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with Dunn on the K's

when you hit .235 regularly you have holes. Which means you are being pitched to.

Now you want to give me a 165ks and BJ Upton bring it on.

by sanders833 on Jan 11, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His career OBP is .381

and his OBP last year .386. Either one of those would have been the better than anyone on the O’s besides Nick last year. He walks over 100 times every single year. His career OPS is 900. His career OPS+ is 130. And he hits 40 home runs per year. The impact of his strikeouts is negligible.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Jan 12, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Strikeouts

Its not that he strikeout, its that he hits .235 while doing so. That means he has many holes in his plate coverage and when runners are on base he is getting pitched to as much as pitched around.

by sanders833 on Jan 12, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Those holes aren’t big enough to prevent 40 homers though. But I see your point to a certain extent. A groundout or flyout is more valuable than a strikeout, and possibly even a walk, with runners on base. But run production hasn’t been Dunn’s problem given his RBI totals.

by birdman on Jan 12, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

you figure though if he hit .260 we would be talking about Ryan Howard though in terms of run production.

by sanders833 on Jan 12, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say

It’s not that he strikes out, it’s that he has an OBP of .381. We will have to just disagree because .235 doesn’t mean shit to me when .381 is out there.

It seems that you are drawing the conclusion that because his batting average is low he gets pitched to when there are runners on base. I’m not sure how you get that. If you have some facts/stats about that I’d love to see it. I have no idea where I’d find stats on when a hitter strikes out vs walks when there are runners on base but I just did a quick search on mlb.com and can tell you that Adam Dunn was IBB’d 13 times in 2008 which is good for 13th best in the majors.

[Guthrie's] president of my heart. ~PhilR8

by Stacey on Jan 12, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget...

those are 40 RALLYKILLING homeruns!

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Jan 13, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the discussion

is how to value Dunn, not that ..381 isnt valuable or 40 homers isnt valuable. Nobody debates that. I will take them all day long. But I can lay out my arguments why the O’s wont commit the salary and you can lay out why the team should. I think ultimately they want to hitch the wagon to someone else, that simple. They dont want to do a two year deal since it just comes off the bottomline and they dont want to do a longer deal to give them the flexibility to pursue other options they think are more desirable.

Believe me, I understand your thinking on getting Dunn but I dont think the O’s will pursue him at any price because they dont want to spend money in 2009 when they know their payroll is still not trimmed of large contracts and attendance, sponsorship and all variable revenues are probably going to significantly decline. And the team will be bad with or without Dunn.

We must be having the same discussion as all GM’s because there doesnt seem to be a line at Dunn’s doorstep yet. Quite frankly, I dont understand that either.

by sanders833 on Jan 13, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ks

The strikeouts were a bit frustrating however it seemed to me he walked way more than he struck out in clutch situations. Of course I only was able to see him for 44 games last year, so not sure if that the norm with him. Opposing pitchers did NOT want to face him in the clutch that’s for sure, however the Dbacks lackluster offense probably had something to do with that.

The Dbacks fans and announcers loved big Adam. I would love to see him in an Os uniform, especially since we can DH him.

by 7Swords of Salat on Jan 11, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

football mentality

doesn’t run to his position
etc.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

by SC on Jan 11, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All Dunn does is clog up the bases.

by drj on Jan 11, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

who let Dusty in?

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Jan 11, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clog?

He’s scored over 100 runs 3 times. And another year he had 99 runs. And that was with the Reds. With some solid hitters behind him in the lineup (Huff, Mora, Wieters), he would score at least 100 in this lineup.

by 7Swords of Salat on Jan 11, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

worth remembering

Dunn will require a draft pick forfeit. That is not an inconsequential thing. And I’m a big Dunn proponent

by pipkin on Jan 11, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather just give it to Salazar.

I’m serious.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Jan 10, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nay

if we can just have huff do it, screw it. If its Jim or Richie? Dear lord let it be Jim.

"I’m sure glad he didn’t try to bunt." - DD on Melmo's game winning double, 6/17

by daveh873 on Jan 10, 2009 11:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This would be stupid!

by O'sFan21 on Jan 10, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is an awful idea

I don’t have a problem with a stopgap here and there, but why not find a Dallas McPherson type and give him a shot at 1B?

Edmonds is a bandaid, and a bad bandaid since he doesn’t hit well enough to carry 1B.

by dkdc on Jan 10, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

#3 is what I've been saying all along

But whatever

by pipkin on Jan 10, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why not Edmonds? Come on down!

Camden Yards is perfect for aging, senile athletes. Win or lose, it won’t bother them a bit.

by MurraysLaw on Jan 10, 2009 11:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Dunn's defense

I know this won’t stop any of you FOOLS who criticize Adam Dunn’s outfield play from doing so – (this will just be for fun and my own benifit and whover else is entertained by it) – but there is a way to measure defense – a very BASIC one- its called, well i just call it the amount of plays a guy has made.

In 2008 Adam Dunn made 1.97 plays per game (per 9 innings) as a LF – the league average was 1.90!!

For Adam Dunn’s career he has made the same exact 1.97 plays per game, in 950 games out there – since 2001 when Dunn came into the league the league average for ML Lf’s is 1.93!!!

Do you understand what this means you idiots out there? Dunn was and has always been and was again last year an A-V-E-R-A-G-E major league LF. Do uyou understand that? ? He’s not a Gold Glover, He’s not GOOD, He’s not BAD, He’s certainly not a DH unless of course you wan’t to classify ALL OF THESE inferior Left Fielders to Dunn as Designated Hitters…

Pat Burrel 1.77 in 1185 games
Moises Alou 1.76 in 1244 games in LF
Luis Gonzalez 1.99 in 2418 games
Josh Willingham 1.76 in 371 games
Ryan Braun 1.95 in 149 games
Carlos Lee 1.98 in 1403 games
Jason Bay 1.97 in 740 games
Man-Ram 1.76 in 890 games in LF
Matt Holliday 1.92 in 687 games
Adam Lind 1.87 in 153 games
Carlos Quentin 1.83 in 135 games
Delmon Young 1.99 in 151 games

Endy Chavez, Alfonso Soriano, Randy Winn, Dave Roberts, Carl Crawford, Johnny Damon, Shannon Stewart, Jay Payton, Ben Francisco, Garett Anderson were/ are significantly better than Dun catching the ball in Left Field over the years. they were ALL also more athletic players and were all able to play a decent CF at times during thier careers. Besides Soriano, Lee, and sometimes Anderson, NONE of them can put runs on the board like Dunn

the most interesting players on the top list are Holliday and Quentin. Both are damn good hitters like Dunn is, both are error-prone OF’s like Dunn who don’t throw particularily well but catch the balls near them and a few more. Enough to hold down jobs as average fielders who earn thier living with thier bats. Whats the difference?

Neither of them have to listen to MADE UP FANTASY BULLSHIT about how terrible of a Left Fielder they are!

He’s okay out there. Thats it. He isnt killing anybody. Would he more of an asset at 1b? Sure. Maybe. He just isn’t that bad of an outfielder folks.

by casejud on Jan 26, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs