Arrieta Invited to Spring Training
by Baltimo on Jan 27, 2009 2:45 AM EST
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PrintRoch. I'd be pretty shocked if Arrieta ends up snagging a spot in the rotation, but then again, I'm still not quite sure what five guys are going to break camp at this point.
Although Matusz/Tillman consistently garner more hype than Arrieta, Jake has put together a fairly remarkable career thus far. Not only did he dominate the competition in Beijing, but his stint in Frederick was quite notable, and he failed to surrender an earned run in the AFL.
Arrieta receiving this invitation may be an indicator that the FO can't decide whether they want the guy starting at Norfolk or Bowie. Personally, I'd prefer that he begin the year with the Baysox due to the fact that he didn't even get a full season at high A, but putting him at AAA probably wouldn't be a bad decision either. If, however, Jake performs well in Florida, and then subsequently tacks on a nice run in Bowie/Norfolk, then he probably should get called up as he won't have much left to prove. At the least, I think we'll see Arrieta in Baltimore by August/September, likely before Tillman and Matusz.
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Wow, I really didn't expect
this quick of a timeline for Jake. He does have some nasty stuff though, but I think a year split between Bowie and Norfolk would do him well. I would prefer to stick to our idea of not rushing our pitching prospects, it rarely turns out well.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
Wieters was invited last year
From what I’ve read, it sounds like they just want to break Arrieta in against some major league hitters, and get a better idea of where to start him out in the minors this year. But hey, you never know…
The same could probably be said about Hendrickson
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
I cringe and shudder
when I think about him in the AL East.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
by sickuvitall on Jan 27, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
We'd be better off putting a batting tee out there
in lieu of him.
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
Tillman was invited last year
I remember Tillman was invited last year and impressed alot of people, however he was never thought to make the rotation. I imagine Arrieta’s invite will be similar, just to give him idea of major league competition and decide whether to put him in Norfolk or Bowie. But I have read a couple things so far this offseason calling Arrieta a dark horse to make the rotation. So I guess you never know. With the shape of the current rotation anything is possible.
Tillman was different
Obviously you’re not going to bring up a 19 year old kid, but Arrieta actually stands a decent chance to make the rotation out of pure necessity. I really hope he doesn’t get a spot right out of ST, though; if Jake impresses at Bowie after a few starts, then move him up to Norfolk immediately, and from there you can decide his future.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Jake will dominate
in AA ball, I can almost guarantee that. Send him to Bowie after a ST versus big leaguers, get his confidence soaring, and let him force his way up as the year progresses. I don’t want to ruin any of the Big 3 in a Hayden Penn sort of fashion.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
You could make the argument
That Arrieta could use some healthy competition in order to improve his game, but I’d much rather test him at AA/AAA before he hits the majors. I mean, it couldn’t hurt the guy.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Has a player ever been hurt
by staying too long in AA/AAA ball that maybe didn’t deserve to. Besides, why would you wanna let the rest of the league get used to his stuff before he’s a finished product.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
Well
Some guys don’t really need to do the entire minor league process, and you’re ultimately wasting their contract by keeping them on the farm. That being said, the O’s are in no rush to bring up prospects for immediate contributions, so no, it wouldn’t hurt to keep them at AA/AAA.
Maybe you could make the argument that it hurts them psychologically to dominate for so long?
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
David Hernandez
If you are going to bring someone up because of desperation, why not Hernandez? He’s 24 and has pitched above A ball. And you wouldn’t be risking rushing one of your more prized pitchers.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 27, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
David Hernandez
Jim Callis at BA said Hernandez, despite all of his strikeouts, projected as a middle reliever. Keith Law sees him as a 5th starter at best. Apparently, his stuff won’t hack it in the big leagues, sort of like Garrett Olson.
"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall
Yeah
My point exactly. You bring him up and you aren’t really at risk of the whole rushing the pitcher dilema (which I don’t know if I even believe in anyway).
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 27, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
David Hernandez
will likely never start in the major leagues. His numbers at Bowie last year were nice, however he rarely made it past 5 innings. He has no true abilitly to control his pitch count, which is a direct effect of his lack of command at times. I surely could see him as a middle/long reliever, but his K’s make me think he could even become a closer with some fine tuning.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
by sickuvitall on Jan 27, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
You're missing the point
My point had nothing to do with whether or not Hernandez could be a competant ML starter, my point was instead of using someone we actually value before they are probably ready (like Arrietta) out of desperation, why not use someone who’s actually older and who we don’t really value. I don’t think the goal is to compete in 2009 for the AL East title or a WC, so what’s the downside?
Really, I think we are going to see quite a few pitchers that probably have no business in a ML rotation this year. We are overloaded with guys that right now are probably projected as back of the rotation guys or worse. Patton, Albers, Penn, Waters, Burress, Bass, Hendrickson, Uehara, Hernandez, Liz, Pauley, and Hennessey (I’m sure I missed someone). The vast majority of these guys are probably not going to be on the 2011 O’s. We really need start weeding through these guys and figure out who’s going to sink and who’s going to swim. Some could be moved to the pen, but many are going to have to be given their walking papers.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 28, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
By making your point,
you sort of validated mine. I (and everyone else here) agree that we will not compete this year, so why risk any pitcher that we even value slightly?? All those names that you listed should be enough to get us through this year and it obviously won’t be pretty.
Why throw David Hernandez to the wolves if it is not necessary? To say that he is not valued at all is absurd. I also disagree with the evaluations of Callis and Law…I wonder if either of them have actually seen him pitch or if they are just tossing shit around based on what they have heard. If we force him into a starting slot this year and he sucks, there goes any chance of ever making him useful in the near future. We have enough wet noodles to throw on the mound this year without having to risk anyone who is even slightly valued in the system.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
by sickuvitall on Jan 28, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully a third those guys I listed will not be on this team after the AS break, others will be in the Pen, we need to pitch 1400 innings or so this year, there is tons of talent coming in after him, and eventually you got to find out if a guy has any value. I don’t consider giving a shot to a 24 year old with 4 years of professional experience, throwing him to the wolves.
Once again though, my main point was that there is really no need to bring up Arrietta yet.
As for Law, supposedly he does scout them. I would guess Callis has as well, I mean, that’s kind of their job). Just out of curiosity, did you (I was really asking, not trying to be a dick)?
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 28, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
If there is one thing that I pride myself on,
it would be my knowledge of the minor league system. Call me a loser if you will, but I LOVE going to minor league games. I have seen 3 David Hernandez starts, and the guy just flat-out isn’t ready for the bigs, especially not in a starting capacity.
I understand your logic as far as beginning the process of seeing what we have and who will be ready at what point in time. However, I just can’t endorse calling up Hernandez this year.
Now Brad Bergesen is an entirely different story. His upside is not as high as Hernandez, but his development is much further along. I would not at all object to seeing him up this year.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
by sickuvitall on Jan 28, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if either of them have actually seen him pitch or if they are just tossing shit around based on what they have heard.
I’m almost sure they’ve seen Hernandez pitch… especially Law who scouts TONS of players each year.
"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall
I tend to agree with Callis
more than Law on this one. The bullpen will likely be a good spot for Hernandez, unless he develops a solid off-speed pitch and learns to manage his pitch count.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
by sickuvitall on Jan 28, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Kranitz will undoubtly teach Hernandez a cut fastball. Like Jim Johnson, it mgiht do wonders for him.
"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall
Speaking of Jim Johnson,
I haven’t heard much about our plans for him this year. I can’t help but feel like we might be wasting his abilities in his current setup role.
"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."
the plan...
is to keep him in the setup role. once they cut bait on some of the old timers, see what some of the tweeners can do in the rotation and evaluate what the guys coming back from injuries can still do well, i imagine johnson’s role will be revisited.
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Jan 28, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I second this
Hernandez or Bergesen. If we’re going to spoil a prospect, it might as well be one of those two. That being said, I don’t think calling up either would necessarily be rushing them.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Don't forget the Boras factor
Another thing to remember is that Scott Boras is Arrieta’s agent. This seems to be the reason why the O’s aren’t making Wieters the OD catcher. So I believe they’ll wait on Arrieta as well. While it is possible that the he could make the rotation, I would bet that is invite will be more similar to Tillman’s.
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