Sun: O's in "lead" for Rich Hill

by Oriole on Jan 29, 2009 10:37 PM EST Comment 51 comments

Hey, looks like another trade with the Cubs, kids.

This time the Orioles are "in the lead" for Cubs disgraced lefty Rich Hill. The price is low a PTBNL and the quality of which depends on Hill's success in Baltimore. I think its a nice gamble, but I'm not holding my breath. Hill had a swell 2007 by going 11-8 with a 3.92 but last season he turned into a poor man's Daniel Cabrera and walked any batter in a 10 mile radius. Maybe he can rebound...maybe he won't.

I'm fine with the gamble, the O's need to do some low risk gambles. But I hope this is the last trade with the Cubs for awhile.

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hmmm

I…like it. I like it just fine.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Jan 29, 2009 10:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kranitz was his pitching coach

in the minors when he was doing well. If there’s a team where Hill might bounce back, it’s gotta be us.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Jan 30, 2009 6:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, just like Leo Mazzone knew guys like Jim Brower and Russ Ortiz. I hope Hill also brings a good pinochle game.

by drj on Jan 30, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

though in fairness...

those guys were bums. hill was kind of the shit before lou piniella took the reigns (what is it w/ the cubs and managers that hate pitchers?).

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Jan 30, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

This is one of those very low risk, very high reward type deals. It’s not like the guy lost it years ago & is a million to one shot of recovering. He’s not even Rick Ankiel. Yet.

If it worked we would literally have SP talent dripping from our ears.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Jan 30, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome

Get it done.

Maybe Hill is cooked, but there’s no reason for the O’s not to give him 30 starts to make sure.

by dkdc on Jan 29, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good luck with that.

Hill hasn’t been able to throw strikes since the end of 2007. No one seems to know why. It appears to be mostly psychological.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 30, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither

could the kid in KC, Greinke, and I’d take him in a heart beat.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jan 30, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that was anxiety based

in terms of social disorder…he could still locate his pitches….

Hill might have been hurt but I cant tell which came first-the bad back or lack of command…maybe the O’s have a better feel for that.

by sanders833 on Jan 30, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He was apparently afraid of large crowds.

"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall

by birdman on Jan 30, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So he just pitches home games for us

and on any road trip with KC, OAK, TEX in June/July/Aug, TOR, TB, and a few other destinations.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Jan 30, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Grienke was

the pitcher with the fear of crowds and he just signed a four year extension.

Hill is the pitcher who cant locate the strikezone. There is a great article over on MLBtraderumors that shows Hills delivery. Its not hard to see why he has trouble repeating the delivery. They think his problem is mostly mechanical. Throw in his physical ailments last year and then the stress of losing the strikezone and a mixture of Sweet Lou and its easy to see why Mr. Hill drinks alone. He has some demons to remove. Maybe a couple of loving pitching coaches can coax a rebirth.

by sanders833 on Jan 31, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Low-risk, you know?

As pointed out elsewhere, two of the main pieces being offered by the Cubs a year ago for Brian Roberts can now be had for Garrett Olson and a PTBNL. What Andy wants, Andy gets. Buy low.

by Brotz13 on Jan 29, 2009 11:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Fine

But hopefully that PTBNL is comparable to what we got for Bradford.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Jan 29, 2009 11:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cash considerations

and a chance for Andy to pet one of the rays in that tank they got out there?

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 29, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Jan 29, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe a bad wish

The original post says the PTBNL level is determined by performance… so if what we give up sucks, that probably means Hill just came here and sucked. Maybe he’ll do a little bit and we give up a little bit, but even if he exceeds expectations I can’t imagine we give up too much.

The Sun article linked says some of our coaching staff is familiar with Hill – Kranitz had him in the minors in 2005 and Dunn saw him in 2005 and 2006.

Pretty cheap price to see if a guy re-discovers the magic, eh?

Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008

by Eat More Esskay on Jan 30, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as he can eat innings

Then I’m fine with the move. I suspect Andy only wants a guy like Hill so that we don’t have to rush guys like Arrieta up the system.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Jan 30, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At what point do players that are named later have to be named?

Does it vary from deal to deal? Or is there like a guideline that says it has to be within a parameter of weeks or months?

...Snoop Doggy-Dogg... Ya need to get yourself a jobby-job.

by oc on Jan 30, 2009 12:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Did we ever get a player for Chad Bradford?

"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall

by birdman on Jan 30, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nope

Last word I heard was we might’ve gotten cash instead.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Jan 30, 2009 3:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

its my general understanding

that the player is generally from a group of agreed upon choices before the deal.

No team trades a player on a performance based option without knowing the downside option or upside option in advance.

So for Hill, the downside might be cash (cut in spring training), mid might be one or two A players from an agreed upon list and high side migh be one or two players from an agreed upon list. But the teams know who these players are.

The O’s know what they are getting for Bradford or at least what options they have.

by sanders833 on Jan 30, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Check list for potential Oriole starters:

1. Has pulse.
2. Is above ground.
3. Has won 5 games or more/ single season/ any league AA or higher
4. Career ERA below 8
5. Not from Aruba

Ka-ching this guy immediately. Don’t even wrap him up, we’ll take him right from the display case.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Jan 30, 2009 3:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

for 5

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Jan 30, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just give him away for free. Nothing is required in return.

by Begawk on Jan 30, 2009 4:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Daniel Cabrera

There’s a good chance that this guy is just another DC – He can no longer throw strikes. Of course, Hill put together a full season showing reasonable control. DC never did that. Hill will also be cheaper than Cabrera. I guess, at this point, Hill is more likely to get his control back than DC is to ever get control. It’s an excellent move if MacPhail can get him for garbage.

by uneasy rider on Jan 30, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Get it done

The goal here is to erect a fire wall sheltering the young pitchers in the minors so that they can develop.

by BaltoBen on Jan 30, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

by jared.sager on Jan 30, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sun Times says this is a done deal?

As soon as we clear a roster spot.

Cubs Online

- clarification: Chicago Cubs Online says that the SunTimes says this is done – I can’t get the Sun Times website to load to verify.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Jan 30, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cubs fan here.

That’s my understanding as well, it came from a Twitter from the Sun-Times Cubs beat writer.

The Orioles 40-man roster is full, thus someone has to be cleared. That means whoever the PTBNL is will NOT come from the Orioles 40-man roster.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jan 30, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

take...

Hoey or Simon off.

by jared.sager on Jan 30, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well it Twitter says so

it must be true

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Jan 30, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

From that article:

Update – 9:04pm C.T. – The Sun-Times is the only outlet reporting this trade….stay tuned.

Will update soon, still collecting information….

"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"

by exitfare on Jan 30, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

The rotation looks like it will be:

Guthrie
Uehara
Looper
Hill
ST Competition for the #5 spot

Definitely not a great rotation, but much improved over the mess it looked to be a month ago. The only thing that kind of disappoints me is that Penn now has a tougher shot at earning a rotation spot. I was hoping he’d get one last shot at the rotation, now it looks like he may be in the bullpen.

by edsachs1 on Jan 30, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't pencil Hill in yet.

He’s still a project until he proves he can find the plate again.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Jan 30, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Penn should make the team unless he completely craters in the spring

I think Penn will be given every chance to make the team since he’s out of options. Pauley is also out of options, so I’d guess he competes with Hendrickson and Penn for the #5 spot with the 2 losers going to the bullpen.

That makes Liz the odd man out because he does have options, so he’ll probably head to AAA to join Hernandez, Bergesen, Berken and Tillman in the rotation.

That pushes Patton down to AA with Arrieta and Erbe.

Then we need to slot in Bass, Simon and Waters somewhere.

That’s a lot of pitching depth – too bad almost all of it is either crappy or not ready for the majors.

by dkdc on Jan 30, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Liz

I really think Liz’s future is in the bullpen. So if he does not make the O’s bullpen I’d like to see him in Norfolk’s. Maybe give him some time as Norfolk’s closer to get him adjusted to relieving, then call him up later in the summer if we need him.

by edsachs1 on Jan 30, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do we really need him?

Don’t we have about 12 #5 starters already?

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 30, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If I'm not mistaken

Hill projected as more than a #5 not too long ago. I think he’s another low risk high reward guy. And yes, I think we need all the #5s we can get for the next year or two.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Jan 30, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the idea is that we're placing a bet that he can be a #3

and our wager is a PTBNL

by math_geek on Jan 30, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I was kind of surprised about how good his rate stats are/were. Hopefully he can stay healthy.

"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle

by BirdFanInPhilly on Jan 30, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the end of June...

I’m betting we will have burned through about 12 pitchers in the #4 & #5 spots.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Jan 30, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not bad, another ‘why not’ move really.

"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."

by sickuvitall on Jan 30, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The 2009 Orioles

Are starting to look like the 2008 Iowa Cubs

by theotter89 on Jan 30, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

did the Iowa Cubs have

Moe Texeiauer as their catcher?

by jared.sager on Jan 30, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Liz and Patton

I got to see Liz several times last year close up from seats right behind home plate. He has a lot of “stuff.” Is his problem that he never developed pitches other than his fastball?

I have never seen Patton. Did he get hurt and lose his live arm?

by BaltoBen on Jan 30, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

patton...

isn’t really known for having a live arm per se, but was diagnosed w/ a torn labrum (i think?) before he even threw a pitch for the o’s. allegedly, macphail & co. knew this was a possibility, but still felt that patton, albers, scott and costanzo were a better deal than tejada.

"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."

--Jerry Reed, on acting

by j.q. higgins on Jan 30, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just moving Tejada was a good deal

from the salary, negative publicity perspective. We moved Tejada a year late. Ervin Santana would look good about now. This is another move that Andy M would have made that the previous GM wouldnt cause we were still patching the Titanic. Water under the bridge.

Scott was fine and we will just have to wait and see if Albers, Patton, or Sarfate can contribute. Sarfate, Penn and Hill are all out of options. Unless Hill and Sarfate come out throwing strikes you will have a hard time rostering them both.

by sanders833 on Jan 30, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meant to ask about Penn

I meant to ask about Penn not Patton. I read that O’s management planned a starting rotation of Penn, Cabrera, Loewen, and Bedard that would lead us to a glorious future. I know what happened to the others. What sidetracked Penn?

Moving Tejada was even better when he admitted that he was two years older than advertised. When an athlete is in is mid 30s, 2 years is a lot.

by BaltoBen on Jan 30, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

12 people pretending to be the 5th starter....

I think this trade/signing is starting to give all of us an idea of how this FO is dealing with having crappy pitching options. In about 18 months we have taken a beaten down rotation with many “specialist” relievers and transformed it to a staff of innings eaters and long relievers.

Besides Guthrie, at least one of these guys will end up being a legit starting pitcher, with the possibility of three (Looper, Hill and Penn are my guesses… I don’t like Uehara).

I also think Diamond Dave is totally on board with this philosophy. He may have even asked for more competition in spring training to PUSH these guys. How many times after the game did you hear him preaching that he wanted his starter to go more innings? If we have at least 4/5 long relievers and a load of pitchers in Norfolk that are chomping at the bit to get to Baltimore, that HAS to make us better, doesn’t it?

How could he be doing his job when he didn't throw me out of the game after the things I called him?

On arguing with ump Russ Goetz.

Mark Henry Belanger

by Birdland in NC on Jan 30, 2009 8:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs