OT: NCAA Football season ends, USC No. 1 again
by Titov on Jan 3, 2009 11:21 AM EST
28 comments
Does anybody think any of the remaining games decide the national championship? OK, for you people, this just in: OJ did it. Oh, and it's cold in Moscow in January.
So yeah, here we are just where we were last year: USC puts the best team on the field in college football, the light bulb will go on over a few writers heads, and that's it. SOme galloping clodhopper team gets the crown. With one loose quarter against Oregon State-- another bowl winner, of course, about which you read here in August; the Pac 10 ran the bowl table this year, btw -- USC is denied the national title by the BCS rocket scientists again.
I loathe USC as much as the next guy-- probably more, actually, what with they're inexplicable cheeseball cheer for the memory-challenged ("We are -- SC!") and their famous Rubber Band ("Another score for the Trojans!") -- but you have to give Pete and their football program in general credit. A lot of it. Like the national championship.
I was glad to read that Barack favors a playoff. Can't he, like, order one by Presidential Decree for Jan. 21 or something? What? Yes I *know* we're a republic. C'mon, what good is being president if you can't mete out some frickin' Justice?
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God am I sick of hearing about playoffs from the dumb shit sports commentators, or even a plus-one. Then they bring up their memories of New Year’s Day games and how important they all were back in the day, not like now.
Hello, Mc-fucking-Fly? You used to be LUCKY to get #1 v. #2, or even a close enough 1-2. Could it possibly — POSSIBLY! — be that memories are clouded by the fact that we all once were children and these games seemed bigger and more important because we were children and bought the hype? Could that maybe have ANYTHING to do with it? The truth (ah, what a concept) is that we probably get better games now than ever before.
The other thing that clouds minds, I think, is how many bowl games there are, but I say fuck it. It gives me something to watch.
As for the actual Titov post, I think it’s highly debatable to go around calling USC anything like the clear best team. Florida and Oklahoma both have great teams. Oklahoma’s only loss came to Texas, which beats a “loose quarter against Oregon State,” and Florida lost to Ole Miss, who were just as good as Oregon State. Texas lost an incredible game at Texas Tech.
USC obviously has an exceptional defense and they were without question one of the four best teams in the nation (Florida, OU, Texas, USC). But an obvious No. 1? Blaming the “BCS rocket scientists”? C’mon.
Congratulations, Utah!
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 3, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Utah's dominant performance lend credence to the theory, though?
Tide was supposed to freaking Roll, according to the BCS rocket scientry.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on Jan 3, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
Where’s the drama in this system? Congratulations on your undefeated year! Now you’ll get a single game against some other team we pick out of a hat that’s sponsored by some unweildy-named corporation & if enough people say you’re the best then we’ll let them argue about it for generations to come without actually proving anything. Hooray!
I get that it’s about the money now & there’s a lot of it to be had with the gazillion bowl games. But it just doesn’t feel like the college football post-season means a g*ddamned thing. Get your invitation so that you can have a nationally televised game & use that for recruiting next year. That’s really all this season is: commercials for colleges.
Give me NCAA Tourney brackets every day of the week.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on Jan 3, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one argues that the bowl system is better than the NCAA men’s college basketball tournament. Of course that’s basketball and you don’t need a week between games. Plus the way it’s set up now, if you do an eight team playoff, you can damn sure guarantee you don’t have less teams complaining they didn’t get in, but MORE. There’s usually not a HUGE difference between #8 and #25.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 3, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since we're off topic...
SC – how ’bout them Blackhawks!!!!
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
by duck on Jan 3, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know it
I love how much of a chip on their shoulder they have. They’re at least a year away from really messing with Dee-troit, but they know they’re good and that rivalry is going to heat back up over the next few years.
It also is yet another piece of evidence that if a team is good, fans will show up. If they’re consistently shitty, fans stop coming. Hey whaddayaknow?
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 3, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you get the chance to catch a Caps game on TV
Do it. They are playing at an unbvelievable level right now, the CF in Philly a couple weeks ago notwithstanding. And you gotta YouTube that Alexander Semin “fight” from last night – it was hilarious. Even his teammates were laughing after the game, after they conmgratulated him for sticking up for himself.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
by duck on Jan 4, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
title game
I don’t follow college football much, but why is the last game of the season on January 40th?
Seems to me a six team or eight team playoff system makes the most sense. Not sure why a 6-6 team gets to be in a bowl game anyway.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jan 4, 2009 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t follow college football much, but why is the last game of the season on January 40th?
Well this depends on what planet you live on.
Seems to me a six team or eight team playoff system makes the most sense.
Yeah, then we can hear the tiny violin case for 14 more teams instead of one or two a year. I wouldn’t argue with it, but it’s really not going to be the problem-solver people seem to believe it would be. It’s just a different type of headache. Believe me, as soon as the BCS — and the BCS would be in charge of figuring out what teams get in — left out a team all the sportswriters think is more deserving than one that got in, it’d be the same bunch of shit.
Not sure why a 6-6 team gets to be in a bowl anyway.
$$$$$$$$$
A couple more things, re: all this jive.
1. I’m really tired of hearing about how computers don’t see games. You know who else doesn’t see many games? Sportswriters and, especially, coaches. Coaches are a LITTLE BIT busy every week scouting their next game and getting their team ready. Does anyone really think Steve Spurrier pops in the latest Boise State game every week? Coaches are by far the least qualified to be voting on this stuff.
2. To do a playoff right, it takes MASSIVE restructuring of the system, I believe.
First of all, you have to purge a lot of teams, and that’s pretty shitty to do to these universities, like the MAC schools and most of the rest of the non-power conference teams. You can probably make two, two-division super conferences out of the MWC, WAC, MAC, C-USA, Indepdents, and Sun Belt. Everyone left over has to go. It’s OK to have a load of teams for basketball because 64 teams get in. Realistically, the MOST you can do with football is 16 — teams can’t be allowed then to pad their schedules with four crap games.
Second, you have to just eliminate the bowl games, which bring in a lot of money, and it seems like almost nobody wants to get rid of them anyway. They want tradition and yet they want no tradition at all. I say if you’re gonna do it, go all out and do it right, instead of this half-assed plus one idea that people are trying to pass around now.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 4, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coaches are the LAST people you should have voting
on who gets in. Most have a intern in the AD’s office fill out the USA Today Coaches’ poll ballot. The only time they see another team’s game is when they are scouting next week’s opponent. They are just about the last people to ask, aside from the indigenous peoples of Papau New Guinea, who don’t get cable.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
by duck on Jan 4, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well this depends on what planet you live on.
This is more to emphasize the point that it’s odd to me that significant games are no longer on the first or second. But maybe that’s just cuz when I was kid the important games were on the first.
Not sure why a 6-6 team gets to be in a bowl anyway.
$$$$$$$$$
But where do you draw the line? Should there be 50 bowl games just because of the money?
Agreed on the computers…
…I’m a very casual fan, it seems like if you can make some of the games meaningful I’d be much more inclined to watch them. If the Texas/whoever they’re playing tomorrow night meant something I’d be WAY more inclined to watch it.
If the mainstream media is crying for a playoff system I’m more inclined to be against it, but the whole thing seems inherently unfair. And I suppose it always will be and there has to be a line in the sand somewhere. It’s just unfortunate that the Utah team and USC team didn’t get a chance to play Florida or Oklahoma.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jan 4, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
games on the first
There are still “important” games on the 1st. They’re every bit as good as the Citrus (now Capital One) Bowl ever was, and it’s always been on the first. The Cotton went to the 2nd recently. The Rose is still on the first, and still usually matches Pac-10 champ v. Big Ten champ, same as ever. The Orange is also still on the first, Big East v. ACC.
There’s also the fact that there are too many games to put them all on the same day. Used to be they’d let games go head-to-head. Now, not so much. Everyone wants their TV ratings maxed.
These are really the same games we always got, except now there’s one at the very end on its own day for The National Championship. And at least they got the Rose Bowl people to loosen their ties and allow a #1 or #2 ranked Pac-10/Big Ten conference champ to play in the national title game, which was a major flaw in the early days of the BCS, and robbed the world of Michigan-Nebraska after the ‘97 season. (BTW, I remember that being a big deal here, and I was 15 at the time. They officially split the national title, but it was a debate point for folks, and since this is Michigan, most naturally just said Michigan would win. I, a Michigan fan, have always been inclined to believe that Nebraska would’ve beaten the ever-loving shit out of Michigan that year.)
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 5, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
I think for the diehard fans, moving the dates around makes sense. For more casual fans, it’s kind of annoying. New Years Day used to be a collection of great games with the best teams, it doesn’t seem that way anymore. And of course if there was a playoff system, having a super meaningful New Years Day definitely wouldn’t be the case.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Jan 5, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile, reality keeps driving the point home...
…as Texas barely squeaks by Mighty Ohio State, of the Big Thud Conference (1-6) and, as we all remember, previous victor over fearsome Ohio U. and, um, Youngstown State. Yep, Texas sure made its “case.”
Key-ripes, people, look at the players on the field (and then watch the draft). USC would not be hard pressed by either of these teams— any more than it was by, yawn, Mighty Penn State, which at least had the decency, after total prostration at 31-7, to score several times against SC’s scrubinos so certain over-unders could cover.
The real question is how badly the actual No. 1 could beat Utah— not as easy as it sounds or looks on paper (run the players’ numbers, again) and something Yahoo Interactive, which has SC and Utah as 2 and 1, respectively, should present to President Barack as he prepares to issue a Presidential Finding on the NCAA Football Champeenship on Jan. 21.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 6, 2009 1:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
USC had victories over fearsome Washington and Washington State, so BFD.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 8, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and, for the record
USC and the entire Pac-10 can kiss my ass.
I admit this line of thinking may slightly cloud my judgment.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 8, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And meanwhile, back at the ranch, "Sloppy, choppy game leaves Florida BCS champs..."
That about sums it up. FLA proved exactly one thing: it was less sloppy and choppy than fearsome OK, so the BCS title game “leaves” them champs (instead of “making” them such) in a reckoning not many people outside Gainesville can take very seriously.
But don’t take my word for it, or even Barack’s (although it sure is nice to have somebody in the West wing who is sane, can keep his pants up and maintains common sense on critical issues like this one): believe the Heisman winners, who agree the BCS system is “broken.” Yup.
“Heisman winners agree: BCS system needs tweaking”
By ANTONIO GONZALEZ, Associated Press Writer 51 minutes ago
MIAMI (AP)—The BCS honored 10 Heisman Trophy winners Thursday night, about a half an hour after the former stars agreed the system is broken. […]
Well, yeah, and here’s “tweak” No. 1: Utah v. USC for the Actual Nat’l Champeenship. Name a day and a venue, Barack, and the arguments cease.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 9, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure
Let’s give it to Utah for their two best wins, a team Oklahoma annihilated and a team Florida handled with similar ease.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 9, 2009 5:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, let's not "give" it to anybody. Make 'em earn it. Utah wouldn't beat SC & the arguments end, that simple.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 10, 2009 3:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does Utah deserve the chance more than Florida?
Anyway, Utah beat Oregon State, so Utah > USC. It’s all over! Utah wins everything.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 10, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Utah was undefeated. And 2. Stanford beat OSU, hee-hee, so Stanford > USC? You funny guy!
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 13, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UW and WSU are CONFERENCE teams-- bad ones this year (the only ones in the Pac 10) but SC had no choice.
When SC did have a choice, it scheduled an opener against much-vaunted UVA— and handed them their lunch, of course. Meanwhile, Big Thud teams choose to schedule the likes of Ohio and Youngstown State. BFD? Jeez, y’know what? It is.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 9, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MF please
Washington and Washington State were both among the five or so worst teams in I-A and no big favorite over even Youngstown State. I understand USC has no choice to play them or not, but fucking live with it. The conference was no better than the Big Ten. Maybe they shouldn’t have had their “loose quarter” against Oregon State and we’d be talking a different ballgame. The way the system is set up, “loose quarters” are losses and losses are huge. Big whoop.
USC crying travesty can kiss my ass.
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 9, 2009 5:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, slightly clouded judgment strikes again?
—> "The [Pac 10] conference was no better than the Big Ten. " — Well, at least you haven’t lost your sense of humor. Two words: Bowl records. Two more words? NFL draft.
My parents are both Big 10 alums, and they’ve learned to live with it. Hey, it’s a great football conference…if your calendar says 1955. And yet, the conference is covered almost the way the Yerkees/Sawx are, i.e. as though the teams are great by definition. Even though they choose opponents like Ohio, Akron and Appalach…oh, sorry, I wasn’t thinking.
—> “USC crying travesty can kiss my ass.” Whaaa…? If USC has been “crying travesty”, then too bad for them. I don’t see all the venues from over here, maybe you’ve read/seen travesty-crying stories. I haven’t. I would think they wouldn’t need to, as the record speaks eloquently for itself.
In any case, one of the things that strikes me as commendable about Pete Carroll is that he doesn’t whine. When his team got beat at home by a conference opponent about half as good last year, he was right up front: “Stanford was better than us today.” And he credited OSU this year the same way— they won, we didn’t hand it to them— even though it’s hard to make that case when sober.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 10, 2009 4:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least you haven’t lost your sense of humor. Two words: Bowl records. Two more words? NFL draft.
I really could not care less about their bowl records. It happens. Penn State, Ohio State, Northwestern, Iowa and Michigan State match up just fine against USC (easily the best team we’re talking about, no doubt), Oregon, Oregon State, Cal and Arizona.
If you rank them that way (and I would), I’d honestly pick:
USC over Penn State, obviously
Ohio State over Oregon
Oregon State over Northwestern
Iowa over Cal
Arizona over Michigan State
So 3-2 Pac-10 among the good teams. It’s not the giant gap you’re making it out to be, and I’m not a Big Ten apologist. It’s just that the conference is only spotlighted critically when they’re doing something poorly (this year’s shitty bowl record, Ohio State’s awful performances against elite teams), and yet Michigan upsetting Florida in a great game last season was totally ignored. The Big Ten is not on par with the SEC or Big XII, and it’s not really close. But the Pac-10 isn’t on par with the SEC or Big XII, either no matter how good USC is year-to-year (and Pete Carroll is running arguably the best program I have ever seen).
The NFL draft doesn’t matter to me in this discussion because the NFL is a different game. You can have a great college team with few NFL-ready players on it. Tom Osborne did it at Nebraska for years, and those same Osborne teams could succeed in college football now, even with the admission that the game is changing to a generally more professional style.
USC has a great program, they have a case for being the best team in the nation this year, and yet I remain adamant: fuck USC and fuck the fucking Pac-10.
I have, in fact, enjoyed this discussion!
"I decided to become a basketball fan this year and it’s not working out so well because the Wizards SUUUCK. So then I shifted to hockey. That’s pretty fun except there are a lot of flashing lights and horns and shit at the game."
by SC on Jan 10, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I guess it makes sense for you to dismiss bowl records. At 1-6, I would too.
But everybody else takes them seriosuly, and for good reason: most players are healthy and the match-ups tend to be better than most individuals and teams contend with during the year. No Akrons.
Your fantasy results are not way out of line with what I’d spec— Cal beats Iowa, I’d say, so 4-1. But even more important, I think, is the draft. Nobody would argue that the NFL is not a different game; what I’m saying is that the draft is indicative of the skill levels of the players and, in aggregate, their conferences. You know, 40 yds, standing vertical, all that stuff does indicate certain abilities and talents,
USC gets much of the southern CA h.s. talent, a lot ofrom the valley, a few from NoCal (e.g. O.J.) and all of American Samoa, apparently by law. The rest of the Pac 10 gets what’s left of the CA talent and occasional odss and ends from home states and the east/midwest. But basically, this pool— SoCal, etc.— remains the single seepest in the country. And it shows across the conference, esp. at bowl time.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 13, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, I've enjoyed this little session too. Let's pick it up again in Sept., and add a few, um, friendly wagers, eh?
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Jan 14, 2009 6:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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