Orioles out of options

by math_geek on Jan 30, 2009 7:54 PM EST Comment 49 comments

From Peter Schmuck, Brian Bass, David Pauley, Hayden Penn, Dennis Sarfate, Scott Moore, Felix Pie and Jeremy Guthrie are out of minor league options, along with Rich Hill if we trade for him. Guthrie is obviously a non-issue, as are Pie and Sarfate, but this probably spells doom for Scott Moore. If Trembley goes with the 3 man bench (probable), those three would almost certainly be a catcher, Freel, and a guy who can play shortstop, which leaves Moore plum out of it.

Brian Bass, Hayden Penn, David Pauley are all of course going to be competing for spots in the starting rotation.

Chris Ray, Jimmy Johnson, George Sherrill, Dennis Sarfate have a stranglehold on four rotation spots, leaving four left for the taking.

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we still need to sign Looper or Wolf and lhp for bullpen Olman or Villone and right hand bat with power Wiggenton Opening day inf-huff,roberts,isturis,mora,gomez,wigginton c-zaun,hammock of-freel,adamjones,markakis,luke scott,felix pie starters-guthrie,hendrickson,rich hill,uehara,liz bullpen-sherrill,johnson,ray,olhman,sarfate,jim miller.

by philfromvirginia beach on Jan 30, 2009 8:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I still don’t understand this thought that the Orioles should spend money on Wiggington and Looper. They’re both way to expensive for a team that’s expected to lose. Heck, why should it matter if this team wins 5 more games because of Wiggington or Looper? Makes no sense.

Let the kids play. No more vets.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 30, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Looper

While I have agreed from a financial standpoint the O’s arent likely to spend money on 2009, the club needs to end the cycle of rushing pitchers from the minors and blowing out their bullpen leading to these inevitable Aug/Sept swoons. Millar even tries to blame that on his collapse (the same cycle that Joe Madden had to break and Andy has said must end).

So to do this, how much is Andy willing to commit to payroll expenditure? I can see Looper at a two year deal say at 5.5 million. So what does Andy gain and lose? Gains two wins maybe. Can he get 175 innings of better then avg value to stabilize the rotation and the pen. That might be worth a win or two as well from the pen since they may be healthier and better rested.

Last year the O’s led the AL in pitching changes. Consider that and then add in the number of warmups required to possibly come into the game every inning as the starters and other pitchers are constantly replaced in this endless cycle.

Andy will have to balance that versus his payroll budget.

I could see the O’s maybe in on Wiggington if they can a bargain and a two year commitment. Then you have 3b/1b/2b options in 2009/2010 at a very cheap price. The O’s arent going to go high here though.

Of course, Roberts staying or leaving may play into a lot of this as that is 8mil if traded and obviously more salary relief in 2010.

These are the decisions that Andy has to wrestle with and the more clarity he gets the more likely he is or isnt to make one of these decisions.

by sanders833 on Jan 31, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I misspoke

I’m not suggesting the promotion of any minor league pitchers, or other players, until they’re ready to play in the majors. Not only would that be irresponsible, it would go counter to the mantra of Andy MacPhail. Not to mention a little pointless as I mentioned before, we don’t need to rush; it shouldn’t matter if they win another 5 games.

What I am suggesting is that this team has an overwhelming amount of pitchers without options and others who, with a little more time, could actually do something for this team. Brian Bass, David Pauley, and Hayden Penn are three guys whose abilities will be checked out come Spring Training and are out of options, plus Liz, Albers, Burres, and Waters who, while they have options, could, conceivably show us/the team something in the next few months. My problem is blocking even the possibility of a chance.

With a signing for Looper, you’re taking away the chance for one or more of those pitchers from showing us something. And I think that’s silly, and could be a complete waste of money/time. If the kids can’t pitch in spring training – if Bass, Pauley, Penn, Liz, Albers, Burres, and Waters don’t pan out – then it makes sense to sign Looper or someone like Looper as a warm body, with a two year contract.

And for those who might respond saying that we should be so lucky to have such a breadth of pitchers, possibly providing pieces in a trade, remember that none of those pitchers mentioned above have very much trade value. Thinking that a team would give more than a PTBNL for any of them before seeing they can do anything long term is unrealistic.

As far as Wiggington is concerned, isn’t that what Gomez and Freel are for? If Freel or Gomez do well this year, then you attempt to resign them for another year or so, but spending money on a guy like Wiggington, meh.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 31, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

but I have seen this to many times now.

Give me some structure to the rotation. Quite frankly, I dont care if I have to cut Sarfate, Bass, Pauley, Penn, Hennesy, Henrickson, etc. But I will say, any pitcher with an option literally I start in the minors and make then earn a spot (Waters, Burres, Liz, Kam) and I would start Albers and Patton on the DL. And of course, I like Hill because at least he has upside if acquired.

We need some stability to the rotation and Uehara and Looper can be used out of the pen as well. I just figure its time to get a rotation with at least 60% defined. Then let the rest have at it, cut the dregs, option what you can and make them fight there way up. Let the next wave stay at Double or Triple A for 2009.

I understand your point but I am not letting quantity confuse the situation. We need QUALITY. Now if your willing to just allow 2009 to become a copy of 2008, 2007, 2006 yes dont sign Looper. But if you want to start trying to change the culture and improve the competitiveness of the team’s pitching, then sign Looper.

Wiggington I have no qualms either way. But I dont want to expose Gomez and Freel. Wigginton is little better option. If he can be had for a 2/4 deal, I would probably consider that and cut Gomez. Wigginton makes more sense if Roberts is traded.

by sanders833 on Jan 31, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's fair and I see your point

If they trade for Hill he could, if he’s able to put everything back together, take a spot in the rotation and forego any other signings. However, really, I really don’t know if he’ll be able to do anything positively. He could, really, just find his way to the minors after passing through waivers.

I suppose a lot of this has to do with me hoping they don’t spend more money on free agent patches and more on draft picks, but I don’t disagree.

Quality is imperative; you’re right.

Wiggington does make sense at second, more so than Freel and Gomez, if Roberts is traded. Especially if a young shortstop or second baseman is part of the trade.

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 31, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I imagine the O’s will try to push Moore past waivers at some point in order to put him on Norfolk’s roster. Not sure if he’ll get picked up. Don’t care either.

"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall

by birdman on Jan 30, 2009 8:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Freel can sub at SS too, at least in theory

I don’t see how he’d be worse at it than fucking Luis Hernandez was.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Jan 30, 2009 9:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

As long as he doesn't get into any "fielding slumps"

he’ll suffice with any sub work.

http://www.oriolecentral.wordpress.com/

by Oriole on Jan 30, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd really be fine with that

Luke Scott can come in (except for that pesky DH stays off the field rule) to support Freel singlehandedly backing up five positions.

by math_geek on Jan 30, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Brian Bass really that likely to be in the future?

just sayin’

by pipkin on Jan 30, 2009 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Would the following players please stand:

Brian Bass
Chris Waters
Scott Moore
Mark Hendrickson

You gentlemen are excused from the organization, have a nice life.

"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."

by sickuvitall on Jan 31, 2009 12:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Orioles out of options

The team is out of a lot of things.

I really liked Scott Moore when we got him, but he’s another guy we didn’t give a chance, although he totally sucked in Norfolk this year. He did come on in July before getting hurt.

I think Hayden Penn makes the starting rotation and pitches better than a few others.

I think Bass clears waivers, as does Pauley. Moore though catches on for the Nationals.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Jan 31, 2009 2:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Penn

Wouldn’t that be nice. I think he might go balls-out cause he knows this is it.

"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."

by sickuvitall on Jan 31, 2009 3:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i sure hope so

I think he was ill-used by the O’s. But, I suppose this is his last year to prove me right, at least with the O’s.

He could always go on to be good somewhere else, kinda like Guts.

by pipkin on Jan 31, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Orioles made too much of Penn

I always thought they were drastically overdoing his prospect status and made him out to be a can’t-miss guy or something. He was a guy who could easily miss. Now he’s 24 and it’s like he’s 29.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Jan 31, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

I have this feeling like Penn could be our next John Maine — not brilliant but league-average and a cheap stabilizing force, and we let him go because we gave up just BARELY too soon. A lot of the reasons that Penn has fallen flat and missed opportunities so far have been wierd — wasn’t there an appendectomy in there somewhere? As you say just above, he’s still young. So I hope we don’t just lose him on waivers for nothing, though I wouldn’t go to great pain to keep him around just on my hunch, either.

by punkrawka on Jan 31, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

spring training should be a blast

The O’s will probably be trying to do the same thing the Cubs are doing at the end of March, trading the guys with no options before waivers and the market will be 50-75% less. Still no harm no foul.

And just to make the situation worse, I suggest the O’s go after the guy the Yanks just optioned Chase Wright. Yeah, I know about the four homeruns. The guy can pitch.

by sanders833 on Jan 31, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking the same thing about Wright

by Dr Orpheus on Jan 31, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody here will like this but

I think the O’s should get Manny! if he’ss willing to DH more the field. 3 years 20m each is well worth the money. nobody is going after him right now so get him cheap, trade at the dead line and get some picks

by merdon1332000 on Jan 31, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I admire you for having the balls

to even suggest that…however I can’t sign off on your idea. Manny won’t make us compete.

"...that our flag was still there...OOOOOO say does that star spangled..."

by sickuvitall on Jan 31, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he would be fun to watch

but he wont make the team competitive and you take 22 mill off the bottomline.

by sanders833 on Jan 31, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You are right

Don’t want Manny.

by BaltoBen on Feb 1, 2009 7:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by PhilR8 on Feb 2, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they should sign Bonds!

He would play for $1 Mil, would be awesome (at hitting), would sell some tickets (who cares if it’s just to boo him), and if he’s awesome (he will be) then we could trade him at the deadline for a prospect. What’s the downside? If he sucks just release him.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 2, 2009 3:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I dont think he would play for $1 mil

but you would render Luke Scott worthless….and the media circus just wouldnt be worth it in my mind. The O’s are a team trying to put their steriod history in the past. Again, even if he has a great season its worth 2-3 wins.

by sanders833 on Feb 2, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Who cares about the 2-3 wins?

If it sells tickets and and he has a great season then they can trade him for a prospect or two it would basically be the same as getting them for free. He’s put the word out that he’ll play for almost nothing. It just seems like a no-lose situation.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure where your getting this

he turned down $25 mil-that isnt nothing.

Your thinking with your heart (which is ok) but teams do think about payroll. You think Scott Boras wont ask for a no trade clause? Your letting the press BS get to you, which is fine. Nothing wrong with dreaming of Manny torturing the Yanks, Sox and Rays….

but Manny is in for Manny and he aint playing for free

by sanders833 on Feb 3, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bonds????? What are you talking about???? Boras isn't even is agent!!!

I think you’re confused here.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Boris isn't his* agent.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Boras* man my brain is bad in the morning...

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are right

I thought you wanted to sign Manny and Bonds on different threads and must have gotten mixed up…wont be the last time…but I still want to pass on Bonds.

by sanders833 on Feb 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The O’s are a team trying to put their steriod history in the past.

Well so are most teams, even though the O’s were hit pretty hard and apparently had a pharmacist on call for a while there. But still, again, if this was such a big deal they probably shouldn’t have signed ZAUN. And the idea of a team not signing ZAUN is laughable.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Feb 3, 2009 5:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me be clear

I would sign a player that I thought would help win, mentor, etc. Zaun is fine and of course we all want Brian Roberts.

Bonds baggage is just to much and with Luke Scott here I dont see a baseball reason to add him for the Orioles team. Other teams have to decide on a case by case basis.

by sanders833 on Feb 3, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who cares about Luke Scott? He's just not that good.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Luke

Scott is awesome. Blasphemy!!!

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Feb 3, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm no.

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Luke Scott

is going to hunt you down now. You’ve been warned.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Feb 3, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hush yo mouth!

Could someone please ban that guy for talking bad about LUUUUUUUKKKKKEEEE? He is most people’s third favorite oriole (at least), and the one that will go shaft on your ass if you aren’t careful….

How could he be doing his job when he didn't throw me out of the game after the things I called him?

On arguing with ump Russ Goetz.

Mark Henry Belanger

by Birdland in NC on Feb 3, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Luke Scott was +2 wins last season.

Sure Bonds was better in 2007, but he’s also in the decline phase of his career. He can’t play defense or run on the basepaths well anymore, and that would take away from his value.

by math_geek on Feb 3, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You aren't following the rules now

EVERYONE sucks. That is the only rule of Oriole Club.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Feb 3, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone except ZAUN!

Try and keep up.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Feb 3, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You honestly think that Bonds wouldn't be a better DH than Luke Scott?????

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barry Bonds is not worth Barry Bonds

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."

"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."

by SC on Feb 4, 2009 3:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Marcel projects .835 OPS for Scott, .887 OPS for Bonds. Bonds is better but there’s not a huge difference. The dude is old and has been out of baseball for a year. That said, that’s still a helluva a projection for Bonds.

"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall

by birdman on Feb 4, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs