Thank goodness it's over, now get better players
This season of accepting and rationalizing losing is mercifully over. Buried in all the hoopla over whether Trembley should stay was this quote from The Sun
... said MacPhail, who acknowledged the onus also falls on him to acquire better players
The team finished in the bottom half of the AL in OPS/OPS+ (.748/93). They were at the bottom of the AL in team ERA/ERA+. I'm skeptical that two very young pitchers will anchor the pitching staff in 2010, while we hope Bergesen wasn't pitching over his head. The bullpen needs help, both with pitching fewer innings and talent, and the O's still have no power threat. All of this will not be solved during the off season, but the onus is on MacPhail to "acquire better players". I hope he holds up his end of the bargain and this off season is a satisfying and leads to a 2010 season where the O's the fans shed the mentality that losing is OK.
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208 comments
Comments
Debbie Downer
Couldn’t wait one freaking day before starting the bitching and moaning?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 4, 2009 10:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahh season is over
I think we should be able to whine after a season like that. At least we ended on a positive note
by ravensfan3 on Oct 4, 2009 10:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Nice website
All very informative and i like the layout. Keep up the good work
by AJ10 on Oct 5, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's right
I think this off season will be huge in acquiring players to help the team make the next steps.
I don’t think that O’s fans think losing is OK. I just think that in the case of this year and last year, it’s understanding that losing is a byproduct of building a team the right way. Or at least, building these Orioles the right way because they were in such an awful state to being with.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 4, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I'm not saying he's wrong.
I’m just saying we couldn’t enjoy a positive end to the season for 24 hours before reasonable (albeit negative) assessments???
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're a wimp
You can celebrate 98 loses with whatever other set of wimpy fans you choose. Don’t count me in. I’ve heard plenty of acceptance and rationalizing losing this year. It’s lame.
A good loser is still a loser. This is pro sports, not your kids 10 and under soccer league.
It’s all about the off season now. MacPhail has very clearly stated that the onus is on him to get better players. I say “go to it!”. He’s stated that there will be no more excuses to rationalize losing. I say “go to it!”. This is a big off season. MacPhail could generate some excitement if he’s able to follow through on what he knows needs to be done. It may not be easy and he clearly isn’t going to be able to do it all, but the fans must see progress. I’m ready to be excited. MacPhail understands he needs to do that for the franchise and the fans.
by drj on Oct 5, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless you are working for the O's
this is entertainment, not a profession. Generally speaking, its nice to take whatever kind of enjoyment you can out of something like watching sports, otherwise why the hell do you do it? If he wants to take some modicum of happiness from the end of the season before getting back to doom and gloom and how much life sucks as an O’s fan then why the hell do you feel its necessary to dump on him for that? You want to call someone “wimpy” because he wants to enjoy the sport for a whole minute? Maybe you’d fit right in with that 10 and under segment you were referring to.
by daveh873 on Oct 5, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whew! Happy to not count your negative ass in. Good riddance.
As Dave says, if you can’t take ANY pleasure from ending the season on a 4 game winning streak then maybe you should find a different hobby.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two wimpy responses
There was some stuff to watch this year. My personal favorite was Matusz.
Peter Schmuck wrote the same thing – he’s glad this season is over. Go bitch to him like two babies too. I really don’t give a damn about finding solace in losing. Most every fan is thinking along the same line. The real goal is to go make progress in the off season, not find something to hang onto in a 98 loss season. I hope MacPhail can work some magic. The past season is thankfully over. Guys like you can find solace in a four game wining streak against another team that was playing out the string.
by drj on Oct 5, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen to all of that
It was a nice four-game winning streak to end the season, but it wasn’t moving the team towards anything other than the end. It was masturbation. It was fun, but I’m very, very glad that the season is over and 2010 speculation can officially begin.
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right it was fun. That's the point.
Enjoy it for 30 seconds before you start talking about how much masturbation sucks comapred to the real thing.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, based on the timestamp of his post
it looks like a little more than 30 seconds elapsed. DrJ was a little harsh in his assessment, but you’re almost proving him right. I experience a lot of highs watching the O’s this year, but as a whole the 2009 Orioles stunk up the joint. DrJ wants to get that bad taste out of his mouth and wants to be excited for the future. Why is he getting shit on for that?
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Is his name Dr. J? I always thought it was just drj, perhaps his initials. Similar to how I always pronounce your name in my head Phil Rate.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 5, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
I have no problem with saying the O’s stunk and that we’re looking forward to seeing the future, but I take offense to comments like these:
This season of accepting and rationalizing losing is mercifully over.
Like we’re all stupid jerkoff homer fans for believing that this year was different than years past and that it’s just the same old same old bullshit coming out of the front office and from the players on the field. You have to have no understanding of the game at all to not see the difference in what happened this season as opposed to the last 12 years and to say that the fans who are sticking around and showing some optimism are accpeting and rationalizing losing is fucking offensive.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I agree with you that this season was different, but this phrase -
This season of accepting and rationalizing losing is mercifully over.
- is true, is it not? To rebuild the way the Orioles are rebuilding, losing is almost a certainty. So as fans, in order to build towards a brighter future, the losses of 2009 had to be accepted and rationalized as a painful but essential part of rebuilding this franchise.
But will 2010 be different? MacPhail understands that it’s now time for him to nut up or shut up and sign great players to further the rebuilding process. Trembley understands that his role as a manager is changing to reflect the next step of the rebuilding process. The groundwork that was laid in 2009 was painful but necessary. The future is hopefully bright – so why dwell on the shitty part of rebuilding that includes losing ~100 games?
In 2009, losing was expected and accepted. I don’t think that will be the case going forward.
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I listened to Andy MacPhail on the radio this morning
And he straight up said, “Next year is the time when the Orioles start moving up in the standings. Phase 1 is over. Now it’s time for Phase 2, which is when we move forward.”
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 5, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds great
I really like Andy. I just hope he can put his money where his mouth it.
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if anything
I think that people like Yuri and drj are not being reational about that aspect of rebuilding. They are calling me a homer for understanding that this season was part of the process and a step in the right direction, but really I think they are the irrational ones.
Also as far as signing “great” players, take a look at the free agents out there – not much greatness to be had.
So really people, by all means let’s be rational. From a W/L perspective this season sucked that’s for damn sure. But they made huge strides in developing young talent and seeing who’s ready and can hang and who’s not. But I don’t expect the organization to go out and sign FAs this year to make all the difference – they aren’t out there. I expect some improvement in the record next year but nothing close to playoff contention or anything. And I’m ok with that because I believe in the plan and don’t want them to go off course and just sign a bunch of middling free agents to get us close to .500 or some other arbitrary number next year.
I’d rather have them be smart about FA signings this year and then try to make some real signings next year (Dunn for example).
Although as I said in the other thread I have very real concerns about the long term efficacy of the plan since I think the Yankees and Red Sox will always outbid us for FA talent even if they don’t need the players, if they view us as a threat (eventually!).
But then again I’m just a homer so what do I know…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell do you mean wimpy? How is it wimpy to enjoy sweeping a division opponent to end a season? How is it wimpy to enjoy seeing young studs come up and have success at the major league level? How is it wimpy to not want to hear bitching and moaning from debbie downers the freaking day the season ends? I don’t know what you mean by wimpy, but I think you mean something else.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is wimpy to be a homer
I was sophomore in high school in 1988 and there was this kid in my class was the world’s biggest Oriole fan. He lived and breathed the Orioles. He constantly wore Orioles merchandise and during the season brought a transistor radio with an earpiece to school so he could listen to O’s day games on the sly. In 1988 he was absolutely convinced that the O’s would break their losing streak at the beginning of the season and ultimately win the World Series, which he thought they would win every year. I used to ask him about this figuring he was just joking around or really didn’t mean it, but he really believed it would happen. He was a knowledgeable enough fan that it had to be obvious to even him, but he believed it all the same and thought that if you didn’t believe it too, it was indicative of some sort of moral failing on your part. Some people (maybe you) would be impressed by his fervor, but to me that’s not being a real fan. I actually find something amazingly ungenuine about it because he didn’t even take liking the Orioles seriously enough to live in reality.
Being a homer is substituting rational thought for what is ultimately arbitrary prejudice (you like the Orioles because you are from the area or liked Cal Ripken or were excited by the 1983 World Series or whatever) and trying to pass it off as a virtue. You can complain about some of us being a Debbie Downers (By the way, what are you? A 75 year-old woman?), but we care enough to get upset. The Debbie Downers don’t want the Orioles to be the team that always finishes last. We want to have something to cheer about and take it seriously enough to be realistic the probability of it happening. I’ve stuck by this team a long time and I don’t think it’s disloyal on my part to be upset with the way they do business. We all just enjoyed the 12 straight losing season. That isn’t normal and I don’t think I’m being disloyal by being a little miffed about it, especially when I see indications that there are some more losing seasons on the way.
What’s so great about your rose-tinted glasses approach? The O’s have the worst season they’ve had since 1988 and probably would’ve had 100 losses if the Blue Jays weren’t mutinying against Cito Gaston. Is it satisfying to pretend this was a productive season or that those victories are indicative of some bright future?
What bothers me even more is writing things like “Whew! Happy to not count your negative ass in. Good riddance.” No one suggest you stop participating, but you write stuff like that all the time. I guess in your mind anyone who doesn’t have unquestioning faith in everything the Orioles do have no place on this site. When SC started it it wasn’t a homer site where everybody thought that the Orioles are the #1 Superwinner Squad and World Series victories were right around the corner. It was mostly populated by fans who acknowledged that the Orioles needed some serious fixing up. I guess that’s no longer the case.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How the FUCK am I being a homer by wanting to enjoy a very real 4 game winning streak before beginning to talk about the MANY glaring holes in the team?
I’m more and more tempted to tell you to go fuck yourself with every post you write where you constantly insult fans who are able to see that the organization is moving in a different direction from the last 12 years.
And for fuck’s sake, being a fan isn’t about being rational! If it was about being rational everybody would be fans of the fucking yankees and red sox. I’m fucking pissed about the last 12 years too, but I think it was incredibly obvious that this season was a step in the right direction regardless of their record at the end of the year. I really find it hard to believe how a true fan (of baseball in general, but specifically of the O’s) could watch games this season and not see the difference.
For the 100th time where do I fucking say that the O’s are a winner like you keep repeating over and over again with fucking stupid comments like
everybody thought that the Orioles are the #1 Superwinner Squad and World Series victories were right around the corner????
All I’m saying is that THIS YEAR WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST 12 YEARS. It’s ignorant to lump them all in together and call it just another losing season or the worst season since 1988. Do you have any understanding of actually rebuilding?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS YEAR WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST 12 YEARS
Yeah it was genius, it was their worst year since 1988. I don’t what positive direction you saw in a team that somehow managed to have a worse finish than the Washington Nationals. Like I said, I’m not super smart like you so it wasn’t incredibly obvious. Maybe it’s obvious if you really want to to be true
My lord, the mere suggestion that the world isn’t entirely the way you see it just sends you in a tizzy doesn’t it? If anyone disagrees with you tell them to go fuck themselves and say their insulting. When have I ever insulted you? Have I ever told you to go fuck yourself? I bet if I did you would immediately start whining that I should be banned or something. According to you everyone on this site should be just like you and have the exact same opinions and if they don’t they have no place in the community. That’s not how it works.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The second sentence should read "I don't know what"
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, you'd be good at "I don't know" and ending it with a period.
Because that would be a pretty accurate statement.
I think I shall start calling you Brummie, because the only thing missing is you calling MacPhail ANDREW everytime you mention him.
I saw a lot of positive direction in this season. If you didn’t, then you might as well be a Yankees fan, because unless we shell out $250 million in contracts last off-season, we weren;t winning 75 games this year.
This disaster wasn’t built in a day, and it won’t be fixed in two years.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly it’s impossible to discuss this with you if you can’t see that this season was entirely different than the last 11. You obviously lack some fundamental understanding of the game and an ability to separate development/long term improvement from short term results. I feel bad for you that you’re unable to do that and are only able to bitch and moan about “yet another losing season” and complain that the manager hasn’t been fired and they haven’t gone out and landed all the free agent “stars” that are out there to be had.
Have you ever told me to go fuck myself? No, you’ve called me a homer which I find much more insulting. And did I say go fuck yourself? No I said the more I read of your posts the more I want to tell you to go fuck yourself.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What fundamental understanding of “the game” (by the way, when somebody starts talking about “the game” I usually think he or she is bullshitting me) am I lacking?
I saw a team that had most of its best players have a worse season this year than the year before. I saw a team that played stupid, undisciplined baseball and adopted strategies that increased their likelihood of outs and decrease their likelihood of runs. I reward the manager who orchestrated all of this with another year, which makes me think that they approve of what he’s doing. I saw a team that signed chumps like Caesar Izturis, Ty Wiggington, and Greg Zaun and actually give them a decent amount of playing time. Finally, I saw a team that seems to think there is some cheap-shit way to compete in a division with the two biggest payrolls in baseball and a team that is younger an substantially more talented. Oh yeah, they also lost 98 games. I’m not making this stuff up, you know.
Also, where do you get the whole I’m complaining that they Orioles haven’t “gone out and landed all the free agent stars” from? You’re projecting that on me. The only free agent I wanted them to sign was Adam Dunn and that was last year. There are no good free agents this year. What I would like to see the O’s do is trade some of those pitchers for actual position players. I did like what they did with George Sherril. I would like to see more of the same.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What understanding of the game are you lacking?
I thought I made this really clear earlier, but evidently you fail to understand how the rebuilding process that’s currently underway differs from the years of flailing about aimlessly that preceeded it. That clear enough for you?
Who exactly would you have preferred play instead of Greg Zaun while we were waiting for our rookie catcher who came up and played a great second half?
Who exactly would you have preferred play SS instead of Izturis? Was that not an upgrade over the players the previous year at that position?
What about this season made you think that they see some “cheap-shit” way to compete? Because they didn’t sign any free agents during the course of the season???? Maybe they should have signed Pedro…
As far as your last question, quite frankly I just assumed that’s what direction you wanted them to go since you don’t seem to like the fact that they are developing young talent from within. Not sure what other impression one should take from your bitching and moaning…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you an Orioles fan?
Really. I’d like to know. I’m not asking sarcastically or with mean intentions; I am truly curious.
by O Nina on Oct 5, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't choose to be an O's fan
The Orioles choose you
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wimpy response!
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."
by birdman on Oct 5, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I moved to Balitmore from Chicago in 1983
They beat the White Sox in the ALCS and won the World Series. Despite what you might think from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off, baseball wasn’t really that popular in Chicago in the late 80’s/early 90’s and the Orioles were the team that got me interested in them.
As I grew older I learned more and more about the way they did business from the mid 1960’s to the mid 1980’s and grew to really admire that period in their history. I would like nothing better than to see them return to that. They will not.
As for finding another baseball team to root for, I don’t care about other baseball teams. I lived in New York for 14 and still live in New York state and enjoyed watching the Yankees in the sense that they’re a good baseball team that’s worth watching, but they aren’t the team I root for or feel an emotional connection to.
I went to every single game the Orioles played in New York from 1996 to 1998. I attended the first two playoff games against the Indians in 1996. It was wonderful watching a team that competed to be the best team in baseball. It pains me to see how lousy they are now and how badly they’ve lost their way, but I’m not going to stop rooting for them. It’s not like I’m happy when they lose or something.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weird dissonance
you still root for them and yet….
I would like nothing better than to see them return to that. They will not.
Why are you so sure they won’t? Do you mean, EVER? Are you Nostradamus now?
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
by zknower on Oct 5, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will not under current ownership
They’re playing in a division with two teams that are smarter and more willing to spend more money.
Once they do something to make me think they can seriously compete with the Yankees and Red Sox, I’ll change my mind.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me
Peter handed the keys over to MacPhail and said “Do what thout wilt.” And hasn’t interfered much since.
But you and your instant gratification, you’d probably desire Hal Steinbreener as an owner right now…he’d yell at people and then they would win 100 games!
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you know me better than I know myself
Apparently I’m a Yankee fan and love Hal Steinbrenner.
Yep, that’s what I’ve been saying all along. I can’t even count all the admiring posts I’ve made about Yankees and the Steinbrenners over the years I’ve been on this site because you either run your team like the Yankees or you run your team like the Orioles. There is no other way.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my question
What the hell would YOU have done with this team last winter? EXACTLY what the hell would YOU have done differently????
Have answers or quit bitching.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, this is what I would've done differently off the top of my head.
First, I would’ve fired Dave Trembley and replaced him with some guy who managed along the lines of Earl Weaver or Davey Johnson. I would want him to emphasize plate discipline, sensible baserunning, defense, and out an out-preventing offensive strategy. If guys fucked up, there would be consequences. All of this would be a VERY big deal to me. In a division with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays, you just cannot give up easy outs, you cannot do things that cost you runs, and you cannot play stupid.
As for the players, I the free agent I would’ve prioritized signing is Adam Dunn. I would’ve put him at DH and tried to live with Luke Scott in left. The O’s need to have some big hitters. I hear MacPhail talk about how they need to be strong up the middle or whatever. Fuck that. I want those big cocksucker who hit the ball over the goddamn fence.
The Orioles don’t have a first baseman or a third baseman in the farm system that I like, so I would’ve tried to trade for one. Like I said, I actually like what they did with George Sherril a lot. I have to believe that there was somebody better than Izturis out there or available for a trade that wouldn’t hurt that badly. Even if I had to live with him, I certainly wouldn’t have batted him second on a regular basis.
I actually didn’t have a problem with taking a flyer on Felix Pie based on his age, but I do have a problem with sticking with him as long as they did once it was clear he couldn’t play. I don’t care if he did hit the cycle, he had a lousy year.
I don’t understand why Nolan Reimold didn’t start the year on the big club and I don’t care about that whole service thing, starting Wieters in the minors was a waste of time.
I actually lose less sleep about the pitching than you might think because I expected it to suck and was willing to give the young guys a chance. It pissed me off that they signed Adam Eaton. Despite the fact that everyone bitches about the bullpen, the O’s got 287 inning from guys with ERAs above the league average. That says to me the bullpen wasn’t handled well.
This is just what I would’ve done, but what do I know.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me see if I've got this straight
You would have replaced Trembley with…some guy…(by the way it sounds like John Gibbons).
Then you would have signed Dunn – fine I think they should have too.
You say they should have signed, yet again, “some guy” better than Izzy to play SS…what guy?…who knows – some guy!
Then you wouldn’t have batted him second…which NEVER happened until injuries depleted the lineup…so…ok?
Wow you actually wanted them to dump Pie before they did??? One of the few. Not sure about you, but I’m pretty happy with how the Pie experiment turned out.
What makes you think that if they brought up Reimold earlier he would have done as well? Maybe he needed another couple months of minor leeague pitching.
Who would you have had in the starting rotation at the beginning of the season instead of Adam Eaton? Daniel Cabrera? Chris Waters??? It’s not like we were swimming in starter options at the time.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it were me
i’d have signed cc sabathia, aj burnett, and adam dunn. then i’d have forced albert pujols to pull a brett favre and then sign with the o’s. oh and i’d have found somebody not named papeldouche and/or anusface to shore up our apparently above average bullpen. but that’s just me.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's just what I said
You perfectly summed up my post. It’s pretty impressive on your part. I guess that’s because you’re so smart.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh shit i forgot about SS
i’d have signed……some guy.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't have signed some guy
That’s Caesar Izturis and he didn’t work out that well.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
i’m just giving you a hard time cuz thats pretty much what i do on this site. although i WOULD like to see pujols brett favre it and come to baltimore….
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s wrong with wanting to manage like Earl Weaver or Davey Johnson. Are you one of those guys who think the Orioles are going to hit and run their way to the promised land? Are you that guy that thinks the Orioles would’ve won the ’69, ’71, and ’79 World Series if they played small ball?
As for who they should’ve signed instead, I’m in law school and a busy man. It’s not like I know every free agent available. They signed a bunch of guys who are measurably below average. If they signed guys who were merely mediocre, they would’ve been better. I wouid’ve tried to find more mediocre players. Adam Eaton (for example) was a terrible, old pitcher. Apparently the Orioles had no choice but to sign him and start him a number of times.
Why are you so happy with PIe? He sucks. He’s not good at baseball. He didn’t even finish well. What did you like about him. It was cool that he hit for the cycle and all, but that is not a performance indicative of his career so far. He’s only 24, but his bad habits haven’t been improving.
I guess if you assume everything the Orioles do is the right move, the leaving Nolan Reimold in the minors was a good idea. He seems to have at least some hitting ability and it probably would’ve helped to have him in the outfield rather than Pie.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well about pie
i’m not convinced he’s any good, but i’m not quite ready to say he sucks.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything was wrong with it?
I was just pointing out all the GLARING flaws in your thinking.
And again regarding Pie, I guess you were too busy (being a busy man in law school – and they wonder why lawyers get a bad rap…), to notice his performance int he 2nd half of the year? “His bad habbits haven’t been improving.” That is laughably incorrect.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the fuck are you talking about?
What is the glaring flaws in thinking a manager should emphasize plate discipline, sensible baserunning, defense, and out an out-preventing offensive strategy?
Are those things that flawed managers do?
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I listed them above…you’re vote for getting “some guy” instead of Izturis, you’re vote for replacing Trembley with “some guy” who manages like some other guys, your argument that Pie hasn’t shown any improvement, your lumping this season in with all of the losing seasons of our past, etc. Shall I go on?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
It’s not nice of you to insult my future profession. You don’t see me making fun whatever the fuck it is you do.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh tough shit. If I went about announcing my future profession as an explanation for my ignorance I’d fully expect it to be ridiculed.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to fill you in since you missed it
Pretty much any way you look at it Pie showed dramatic improvement this year.
From a year to year perspective:
2006: 215/271/333
2007: 241/312/325
2008: 266/326/437
Within 2009:
Pre All Star Break: 234/299/355 (107 ABs)
Post All Star Break: 290/346/497 (145 ABs)
Hmmmm…no bad habbits improving huh????
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To begin with 145 at bats is a way too small sample size to make any generalizations on and even if it isn’t, he’s not that great.
His on-base percentage went from embarrassing to mediocre and his slugging percentage went from girlish to respectable. That isn’t proof to me that great things are ahead.
Looking at his career as a whole, he totally sucks. He had a totally shitty year unless you parse it down to units that I don’t think are meaningful. It was less shitty than his two previous years, but those were so bad it makes you wonder why the Cubs even kept him on the big league team.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're just full of contradictions!
To begin with 145 at bats is a way too small sample size to make any generalizations on
Coming from the guy who said “but I do have a problem with sticking with him as long as they did once it was clear he couldn’t play” based on those 145 ABs (or actually even fewer I guess. So It was enough ABs to tell you that he sucked, but not enough to say that he improved??? I’m so confused.
And again if 145 ABs is too few to judge, tell me please what career you are looking at that tells you he sucks? The 83 ABs he had last year? or the 177 ABs he had the year before (as a 22 year old…)?
Lol I’m sorry, but I’m really not sure what you’re talking about here because you’re not making any sense.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME, Mr. Lawyer Guy
Yeah, the rest of us are just piddling along in our peasant exsistence with tons of time on our hands.
You couldn’t handle my schedule, dude. Stop acting like we’re not worth of your time.
And get a better argument.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, you can jump up and kiss my ass
I don’t make personal attacks against you, but you and your little friend do so pretty much immediately. You don’t know anything about me or my life? How would you have even the vaguest idea whether I could handle your schedule?
You get so upset if I disagree with you. Heaven fucking forbid that I don’t see everything the exact same way you do. It’s so fucking important to you that you’re “right” and I’m “wrong”. Jesus, what are you 8? Don’t you have kids or something? What the fuck?
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not about you seeing it our way – it’s about you making a fucking coherent argument!
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't make personal attacks...
except for calling me a homer and an arrogant blowhard…
And how about a response about your absurd statements about Pie concerning the number of ABs? No comment?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way it's funny
that I got called an old lady for using the term “debbie downer” by the guy who asked if we were high on dope…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie
The guy has had a short where he hasn’t shown a whole lot and where he has done a lot of things that are affirmatively bad, like striking out almost three times as many times as he walks and having now power at all. It would not be unusual for such a player to not get any further playing time, even based on his limited number of at bats.
You parse that number down and find a segment where he is mediocre as opposed outright terrible and excitedly cling to it as proof that good things are on the horizon. Not everyone sees it that way. I see a guy who still swings at everything thrown at him, which doesn’
Once again, why is it so important to be right and I be wrong? Why do I even have to make a “coherent agrgument”? It makes you so mad. My coherent argument is that the Orioles aren’t very good and had a disappointing season and it showed in their performance. You think they had a season where they showed great promise. Fine, I don’t think so. So what? Why do you care? Why do I even have to justify it to you? I think they had a bad season because they had a bad season. Anyone who looked at the 2009 Orioles who wasn’t a fan wouldn’t be that impressed. I’m not saying anything that controversial here. Nonetheless, that pisses you off to no end. Why?
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait wait wait.
Again you’re saying that the 107 ABs pre All-Star Break (of the 88 ABs last year) was enough time to judge that he sucks, but that the 145 ABs post All-Star break is not enough to judge that he doesn’t suck? I’m soooo confused by you. Also is an .843 OPS "mediocre as opposed outright terrible "??? Never heard that type of OPS described as mediocre before…
The bottom line is you said that he had shown no improvement when the statistical facts (those pesky facts with their well-known liberal bias) show otherwise. Sorry that you were factually incorrect and that I pointed it out.
As far as why it’s important that you make a coherent argument I guess you are right – it doesn’t matter at all. You’ll just wind up looking foolish if you don’t – which you are currently.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that should be “or the 88 ABs last year”
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long would you stick with him?
He does nothing hitting-wise and strikes out three times as many times as he walks. He had a OK part of a season. I’m not impressed by his part of a season. You see great things, I see Corey Patterson.
As for looking stupid, I could care less if I look stupid. The world is filled with smarter people than me and my self-esteem is fine with acknowledging that. In contrast, being right and smarter than everyone else seems VERY important to you. In my mind, that looks more embarrassing, but who am I? I fail to see the greatness in Felix Pie.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again I just don't know what you mean.
As long as he puts up an .843 OPS it’s hard for me to understand you saying “he does nothing hitting-wise”. And again I wasn’t suggesting that they should have stuck with him longer as the starter, I was just discrediting your ABSURD statement that he had shown no improvement.
As far as your second paragraph, I’m not sure how arguing your point when you think it’s right is more embarrassing than putting forth an incoherent argument…but at the very least that’s an interesting argument…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think anyone who doesn't agree exactly with you incoherent
Felix Pie played OK for a short period of time, I’m still not that impressed. That isn’t incoherent, it’s my opinion. That’s it. His career OPS is not .843, it’s .688. He did OK in the second half of the season. We’ll see how he does next year and the year after that.
He also hit for the cycle once.
As for the second paragraph, you look petty, small, and vindictive whenever someone disagrees with you. You also talk up your own intelligence, which makes you look either insecure or arrogant. Those are embarrassing qualities to put on display. Far more embarrassing that showing what you consider a lack of rhetorical ability. If you were as smart as you say you are, you would recognize that.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think people who can’t make a coherent argument are incoherent. Such as:
145 ABs is not enough to judge a player on, but 107 is.
An 843 OPS is “mediocre”
You would replace Trembley with “some guy”…
You would have signed “some guy” instead of Izturis…
And then in response to me DESTROYING your argument that Felic Pie hasn’t shown any improvement, you bring up his CAREER OPS, rather than what he did this year. Not sure how that relates to any improvement…
I look petty, small, vindictive by proving my point huh? You’re the guy calling me a homer and an arrogant blowhard though…
It’s just so hard to understand your arguments. Where exactly do I talk up my own intelligence (mr. I’m too busy going to law school to actually consider facts before making my arguments)???
And I’m in now way talking about rhetorical ability – I’m talking about argument formation and actual knowledge of what you’re talking about.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
You’re the one who keeps bringing up personal things – all I’m doing is focusing on your actual argument points. You’re the one who keeps making personal attacks. Which is fine – I’m not hypersensitive (who gets upset about a generic lawyer joke by the way???) and can handle it. Just don’t get all upset because your argument sucks and people point it out.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rhetoric is the art of using language as a means to persuade. It’s the same thing as argument formation smart guy.
Also, you still look petty, small, and vindictive. Keep writing. It’ll just make you look even smaller.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I’m very much NOT talking about language. I’m talking about making an argument BASED ON FACTS. Which you are not doing coherently. Not really at all the same thing as rhetoric “smart guy”.
Keep calling me petty, small and vindictive. It’ll definitely make you feel better about your pathetic attempt at an argument. Keep the personal attacks coming while failing to put together anything resembling a reasonable argument.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are in personal attack territory
Please save your verbal attacks for people who deserve it, like Matt Albers :)
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really
trying to stick to just attacking his argument.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care about Felix PIe anymore
I’ve got class in a little bit and don’t feel like wasting my time talking about a guy who will probably be out of baseball within a couple of years.
However, you have made it clear to me that Felix Pie has shown significant and remarkable improvement over his last 145 at bats that points to a bright future at the age of 24.
He will be a perfect addition the Baltmore Orioles #1 Superwinner Squad.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet again you revert back to non-arguments and thingly veiled insults.
Well played. It’s been fun.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet again
I guess the 145 ABs is not enough to see an improvement over the 107 ABs that was enough to see that he sucked…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lemme just jump into this whole mess
Having not been a part of any of the “name calling” or “insults”, let me jump in here on a couple points:
I can go either way on Pie…he had a really great august which makes his 2nd half stats look much better. But aside from a handful of superstar players, most guys dont come into the league and put up great numbers right away. Many guys piddle around with mediocre stats for their first few hundred PA. Right now, Pie’s stats are not too far off from where Jeter and Youklis were at this point in their careers.
by brek on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean by this point in Jeter's career?
By his second season he was hitting .314/.370/.430 and by the time he was 24 he was an established star.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to talk about when he was 24...
He had a a .775 OPS which is how much higher than Pie had this year? Oh right a whole 12 points. And Pie had one less HR in a little over a 3rd of the ABs that Jeter had that season.
He probably shouldn’t have used Jeter as an example because he had a very good first full season in the majors, but the fact remains that many guys don’t show much in their first few hundred plate apperaances.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’s talking about number of ABs. Pie has been in the big leagues for several seasons but he’s been shuffling between AAA and CHI quite a bit.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But if he’s talking about number of ABs Jeter was light years ahead at this point compared to Pie.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was definiitely better. But Jeter didn’t have his first BREAKOUT season until his 3 year (127 OPS+). He posted an OPS+ 101 and 103 his first two seasons, which are great for a young SS, but league average overall. Pie has only accumulated 512 ABs which is barely a season. In any case, Brek makes a good point. Sometimes guys need to take a couple of seasons before really finding their groove. That’s the point, not who was the better hitter at young age, Jeter or Pie. Pie made some nice steps in the later part of season albeit in a small number of ABs. There’s reason for optimism here given his age.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
I definitely agree with Brek. That’s part of my beef with Yuri (one of the many) – he seems to think that the 107 ABs in the first half of the season was enough to judge him on, but not the 145 ABs in the 2nd half of the season. Very confusing. And you’re right that even taken as a whole his limited ABs spread out over three years provide very little insight as to what type of player he could become.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
was talking about plate appearances...
In 96, Jeter entered the 2nd half of that season with about 350 career PAs. Likewise, this season, Pie entered the 2nd half with about 350 career PAs.
In the 2nd half of 96, Jeter’s OPS was .868.
In the 2nd half of this year, Pie’s OPS was .842.
i would call that not too far off. Of course…there are a ton of other factors too. jeter was 22 and Pie is 24. jeter was muuuch better in his first 350 PAs than Pie. Also, Jeter’s 2nd half consisted of almost twice as many PAs as Pie’s (larger sample size, ahem). On the other hand, Jeter was playing everday…
by brek on Oct 6, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
read this out loud:
“almost twice as many PAs as Pie’s”
Ha…
anyway, here are the splits I was looking at for Jeter…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=jeterde01&year=1996&t=b
Note how mediocre his numbers are up until July..
by brek on Oct 6, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah although 277 .355 .375 .730 isn’t nearly as bad as Pie’s first half this year.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dummy
“What’s wrong with wanting to manage like Earl Weaver or Davey Johnson.”
Great logic. While they’re at it, they should get a hitter like Babe Ruth. It’s all so simple.
by Stanicek on Oct 10, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you just call me a dummy?
The logic is that you follow the strategy of Earl Weaver and Davey Johnson: emphasizing getting on base, power, and home runs; avoiding outs; never bunt; never hit and run; etc.
It really is that simple because any manager can do that . . . dummy.
by yurizanow on Oct 11, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not good enough
“replaced him with some guy who managed along the lines of Earl Weaver or Davey Johnson.”
NAME HIM. You don’t get to say “some guy” when you’re GM. You have to actually find a specific person.
“The free agent I would’ve prioritized signing is Adam Dunn. I would’ve put him at DH”
Adam was vehement that he would not be a DH. Wrong answer.
“The Orioles don’t have a first baseman or a third baseman in the farm system that I like, so I would’ve tried to trade for one.”
WHO?? Name names. And whom would you have given up?
" I don’t care if he did hit the cycle, he had a lousy year."
Take a look at his splits, especially for the last month he was in the lineup, and try again.
“starting Wieters in the minors was a waste of time.”
He hadn’t played a moment of AAA ball before this year. Making sure he progressed in a logical fashion actually made sense. And why in the world would you waste a year of his service time on 2009? That makes zero sense. We basically bought ourselves the 2015 season by delaying his clock. That was one of the smartest moves the O’s made this year.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well in wieters' case
iirc, nick markakis didnt play any AAA ball either.
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we ended up paying him a year earlier than we needed to
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true but i still think hes worth it
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was April and May 2006
really worth having to do his contract a year earlier than needed?
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie actually...
…had a really good 2nd half (290/346/497). If he can build on that success, he might still turn out to be the player that he was expected to be.
by sabertooth5185 on Oct 6, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Why are you so insistent that everyone be as optimistic as you? What difference does it make to you what I think? Why are you and your little friend so intent to telling me to shut up? I don’t tell you to shut up.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could care less if you are as optimistic as I am.
And also I don’t think we’re telling you to shut up (as much as I’ve wanted to), we’re just trying to understand what the hell you’re even talking about. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to have an intelligent discussion with somebody about the O’s when they lump in this past season with all the years of losing previously and only talks about their W-L record.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say it's painfully obvious that you care A LOT if people are less optimistic than you
You’re the one one the witch hunt for Debbie Downers and flips out if someone doesn’t think everything is just great.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because I go after you every time you make an absurd comment (as most of yours are), doesn’t mean I have a problem with people being less optimistic than me. What I have a problem with is ignorant people not being able to see the difference between 2009 and all the bad years before it.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, this was worse
They won fewer games and their better players mostly regressed.
Look at the numbers.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Like I said, it’s just very difficult to have a reasonable discussion with somebody who boils it down to record and vague statements like “their better players mostly regressed” while missing the numerous young guys who came up and showed great talent and potential.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're an arrogant blowhard
You love to announce how ignorant I am or anyone else who disagree with you and how every opinion I have is beneath contempt, the obvious implication of that being that you are really smart and your opinions are “right”.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does picking apart your awful argument make me an arrogant blowhard? If so, guilty as charged!
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Picking apart what?
My argument that the Orioles totally sucked? That their best players almost all had regressive seasons. That their young players at best played average. That Felix Pie totally sucks.
Do you think if a fan of the Anaheim Angels took a look at the Baltimore Orioles he’d see things your way or my way?
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
Yup those would be the ones. That you viewed W-L as the defining criteria for this season – absurd. That some vague general statement about “their best players almost all having regressive seasons” (I assume you’re talking about Markakis and Guthrie) overshadows the huge youth movement that occured during the year. What exactly is average about the way Wieters, Reimold, and Matusz performed?? And how does a .763 OPS from a 24 year old back up outfielder that you basically got for free “totally” suck?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This this vague?
Huff’s OPS+ dropped from 135 to 87
Roberts’ from 117 to 108
Mora’s from 114 to 77
Markakis’ from 134 to 106
Guthrie’s ERA+ from 125 to 92
Johnson’s from 203 to 113
Wieters’ OPS+ was 95 (he was predicted to have a Hall of Fame caliber season)
Riemold had a nice rookie season and spent too much of it in the minors
Matusz had a ERA+ of 100, making him a perfectly average pitcher.
Finally, Felix Pie had an OPS+ of 96 making him 4% less valuable than an average hitter in the American League.
Ladies and gentlemen – your Baltimore Orioles.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Roberts had a HORRIBLE year. hahahahahaha can’t believe you threw him into that mix even with his 9 point drop (monumental drop there!).
Yes Markakis, Guthrie, and Johnson took big steps back, but if that overshadowed what Wieters, Reimold (his “nice” season leading rookies in just about every category when he went down) and Matusz did then I really just feel sort of bad for you because you’re definitely a glass half empty kind of guy.
And just an FYI, in case you were too busy, Huff and Mora are no longer on the team.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mora isn't officially gone yet
:-)
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
smarter?
hardly. the yankees cover their mistakes with money. and they make some whoppers.
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
by zknower on Oct 6, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some guy named Pavano comes to mind...
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or, for th majority of this year, AJ Burnett
although he seems to have finally settled down.
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
by zknower on Oct 6, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cashman knows what he's doing and you know it
He ran that team together when it was winning the World Series with guys from their farm system and trades.
Not every signing for them works out, but neither does it for any team. That is the biggest difference between the Yankees and everyone else is they don’t feel the consequences the way everyone else does. The Orioles were sure hot at one time or another to get Carl Pavano and A.J. Burnett.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well…the point is that their mistakes don’t matter nearly as much due to their endless supply of money. If one signing doesn’t work out they can just make another, and another, and another. Which is what they do every year. THAT’S the difference between the Yankees and everybody else.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that's a long way of saying that they don't feel the consequences of their mistakes
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right...
but it’s nowhere near saying they are smarter!
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What? Do you think he's dumb or something?
Do you think MacPhail is a better GM? Cashman helped put together that team that won four World Series before he was 30 and ran it when they won three in a row. That team was built from their farm system and smart trades. He obviously knows what he’s doing.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who the hell knows what Andy could do with an unlimited budget? But to say they are better because they are smarter is just absurd. Do you think he would just magically turn around the Orioles working under the same constraints as Andy????
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you assuming he would do better?
Back in the early 1990’s they the Yankees rebuilt themselves using no more resources than anybody else.
Do you know who the big payroll teams were back then? Teams like the Royals, the Blue Jays, the Mets, and the A’s. The Yankees were a joke. They turned it around doing all the things you think the O’s are doing right now. Good scouting, drafting, and development and smart trades. Money helped, I’m sure, but its silly to say those were just the product of free spending. Some of those World Series teams had smaller payrolls than the Orioles did.
Also, Cashman uses all that statistical analysis that the O’s used in the 70’s and Red Sox use today. I’ve never heard Andy MacPhail articulate how feels about that stuff, which is odd since his dad basically brought it from the Yankees to the Orioles in the 1960’s. I’ve read quotes of him talking about “being strong up the middle”, which is a favorite catchphrase of guys who don’t know what they’re talking about.
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Interesting generalizations and thoughts except that the facts don’t really back you up.
The yankees payroll rank by year:
1993 3rd
1994 1st
1995 1st
1996 1st
1997 1st
1998 2nd (the only year where the O’s had a higher payroll and it was higher by half a million)
1999 1st (by more than 10 M)
2000 1st (by more than 12 M)
etc, etc, etc. So…..exactly when was Cashman working with a small bankroll????
And as far as “being strong up the middle” being for guys who don’t know what they’re talking about, Cashman always seemed to have a pretty good C, SS, and CF…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Name 3 Brian Cashman draft choices
that have made a difference.
Just three.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll even spot you Joba.
Now, name 2 more.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I;'m saying
he’s got a much greater margin of error than any other GM in baseball. His mistakes never ghurt the club. They just buy the solution
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joba hasn't made a difference
he just made it fun for aubrey huff to out fist-pump him
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a Huff memory I shall cherish forever
by O Nina on Oct 6, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
that was epic. he earned extra respect for that one
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Gene Michael & Bob Watson put together those teams.
Cashman just sort of ride on their coat tails.
Michael/Watson guys have been Jeter, Posada, Pettitte & Rivera.
Cashman guys have been Giambi, Brown, Sheffied & Pavano.
Note the difference in playoff performances.
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
by sluggo 2.0 on Oct 6, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also in cherrypicking
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
by zknower on Oct 6, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me that budget
and I’d put together a hell of a team, too
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've stayed quiet through most of this
But Brian Cashmen didn’t build the teams that succeeded because of its awesome home grown players, Bob Watson did. Brian Cashmen inherited his success. Cashmen didn’t become GM of the Yankees until 1998.
The only Yankees farm hand I can think off the top of my head that’s had big league success as a Yankee since 2000 is Phil Hughes, and that’s just been this year. That’s hardly Posada, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, etc.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and Brett Gardner
fear him!
Robbie Cano is actually very good now that I’ve had a second to think about it, but he was signed as a free agent from DR, which is just another move where the only skill required is having the most money.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think he's bad at his job?
Do you honestly think Andy MacPhail is better at his job than Brian Cashman is at his? What are you basing that on?
by yurizanow on Oct 6, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's bad at his job
I think that he’s very successful at his job, and for all I know Brian Cashman is a brilliant mind. What I do know is that when the only strategy you’re required to employ to be successful is “sign the biggest check.” it’s hard to get an accurate read.
I’d say that I think Theo Epstein is a better GM than Brian Cashman. Epstein doesn’t have as much money to give to players as Cashman, but he’s in the same league, at least, and look at the Red Sox. Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Papelbon, Lester, all came from their farm system. Beckett and Lowell were picked up in what turned out to be a great trade, etc. He refused to give Damon the years that he wanted and although he’s played well the past two years, he was playing way below his salary the first two years. He refused to give Pedro what he wanted and he’s been saddled with injuries ever since.
I think the verdict is still out on Andy MacPhail. He walked into such a giant cluster mid-year 2007 that it’s going to take time for him to work his way out of it. So far I think he’s done an admirable job, but we won’t be able to evaluate him until he’s finished. I think next year will be huge in determining Andy’s success as a GM, which is really what this post by drj was about in the first place.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a lot easier to be a good GM
when your yearly payroll can be $250M than when your yearly payroll can be $75M
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
you don’t say ;-)
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing how that works, huh?
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly think Andy MacPhail is better at his job than Brian Cashman is at his? What are you basing that on?
I don’t think Cashman is a bad GM. But as Stacey notes, many of things you said are simply wrong (“Cashman helped put together that team that won four World Series before he was 30 and ran it when they won three in a row. That team was built from their farm system and smart trades.”). If you look at the 25 man roster, many of the stars are holdovers from Watson as Stacey notes (e.g., Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, and Posada) or simply bought for a lot of money (e.g., Teixeira, A-Rod, Damon, CC). Draft wise, Cano and Joba are his best acquisitions. And Melky and Hughes are turning into a nice complementary players. He made a nice move to pick up Swisher this off season. But there’s nothing to suggest that Cashman is some brilliant and innovative GM. I think I see him like I see Andy, a perfectly fine GM but nothing close to special. I much rather have Theo than Cashman or Andy.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher was a great move
very un-Yankeelike.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher BECAME a great move
after Cashman picked up Tex and Nady went down. Swish was supposed to be their every day 1st baseman. A .249 BA and 29 HR’s are fine and dandy, but you take Tex out of the lineup and replace him with that and they might not be the division winner.
by daveh873 on Oct 6, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. An .870 OPS is pretty good even for a 1B. Not Tex good, but still pretty good.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 6, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They knew they would get Teixeira all along
Swisher was never going to be their everyday 1B.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
I mean, they have lotsa money, but I dont know if they KNEW he would sign with them. The guy can be off sometimes, but Mike Kay doesnt think that thats the case, and he has alot more access to the inner workings of the Yanks than you or I. In any event everything worked out perfectly for the Yanks. Amazing, I know.
by daveh873 on Oct 6, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, Michael Kay believes that Teixeira was plan B the whole time?
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe what Kay said
was something to the effect of the Yanks not wanting to spend any more big free agent $’s after CC and Burnett. They didnt think that the Red Sox would be in on Tex though, and when it became apparent that they were in the running, the Yanks inquired what it would take.
I dont remember exactly what his reasoning was, but I know that he believes that the Yankees were set to go into the season with Swisher at 1st and Nady in the OF and possibly try to give Posada some 1b ab’s.
by daveh873 on Oct 6, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think Kay was played. GMs spread misinformation to them in order for their own gains.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very true
but for the sake of the argument, ima assume that they didnt know they were getting Tex, in which case i agree with daveh
by twistedlogic on Oct 6, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swish was supposed to be their every day 1st baseman.
I personally think that was a diversion tactic used by Cashman. A clever little move by him. He wanted teams to think the Yanks were out of the market for Teixeira so he could sweep in at the last minute.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is what happened
Epstein tried to lowball Tex (lowball by PHN standards).
Boros said something about giving Prince Hal in NY a call.
Epstein said, “you’re bluffing”.
Boros said, “fuck you”.
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
by sluggo 2.0 on Oct 6, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it went something like this. Cashman told Boras very early on that he was interested. He told Boras to get back to him once all the bids were collected and he’ll pay market price. He also told Boras that if he leaks the Yank’s interest, he’ll back out of the bidding. Swisher was a decoy but Cashman was very willing to use him at 1B full time if Teixeira went somewhere else. Once the Yanks broke all bids with their offer, Teixeira told him to finish the deal because NY was his first choice all along.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
by birdman on Oct 6, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You beat me to it!
Sorry I didn’t see this post sooner.
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
by sluggo 2.0 on Oct 6, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But . . .
If they start winning with the guys they have now, no one be happier than I to be wrong.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I’m pessimistic but I’m willing to see that the O’s are developing a lot of good players through the farm system and they’re committed to letting them grow at the big league level. While the O’s can’t outspend the Yanks or RS, they can beat them through player development as the Rays did it last year. We don’t have the same farm system as the Rays but we do have a really good crop of young players. With proper development and key additions via trades or free agency, I think it’s realistic to believe that the O’s could contend in a couple years. To not even acknowledge this scenario is…. wait for it… WIMPY.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."
by birdman on Oct 5, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh by the way
The Rays are younger than the Orioles and just going to get better, so you can throw them on the pile with the Yankees and Red Sox.
by yurizanow on Oct 5, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are they only going to get better?
They’ve demonstrated even less of a willingness to spend money than we have.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn't get better this year
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once you include Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, and replace Mora with Josh Bell, the O’s will be very young. Not sure what the average will be in comparison to the Rays but they’ll be comparable.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."
by birdman on Oct 5, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then don't they actually PROVE that we don't have to spend like the yanksox?
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
by zknower on Oct 6, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sorry
I didnt realize that your way “enjoying” baseball was the right way. And for your information I didnt say a word about “enjoying 98 losses” or anything about this season being great and peachy. Make any inferences you’d like though. All I was doing was defending the guy’s right to want to be able to enjoy SOMETHING about a shit season for 2 seconds without being called juvenile names for it. We all know the season sucked. We get it. You arent a genius for pointig that out. Have fun not taking happiness out of anything, trashing others for not being like you, and generally acting all holier than thou.
by daveh873 on Oct 5, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, but....
We won four games! In a row! At the end of the season! Against another team with nothing to play for! I just think asking for anything more than that is greedy.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
by rebop on Oct 5, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Orioles are #1!
Everybody they need to win multiple World Series is already there or waiting in the minors!
Is that better?
by yurizanow on Oct 4, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what I meant.
Just as intelligent as all your other posts…
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea seriously
im gonna wait until after the playoffs to start bitching about what players we need to get.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why
who gives a shit about the playoffs – the Orioles aren’t in them. I mean, I’ll watch the playoffs and I’ve chosen my teams/players to root for, but fuck it. Orioles are the number one priority.
by PhilR8 on Oct 5, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i agree
but i’d like to enjoy our AMAZING 4 game win streak for a little bit. plus free agency doesnt start right away anyways.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
you can’t forget the dope part.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hashish smoking please....
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Oct 5, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a little nervous about Bergeson too
But I think a reasonable projection of him might be a #4 starter, and that was more than I thought coming into 2009. However, I think Wieters could be a middle of the order hitter on a contending team. Plus, the Orioles do have some decent power potential in Scott, Markakis, Jones and Reimold. Plus Pie displayed some XBH ability as well. So in some ways while the team might not have the typical lineup ingredients, it might be pretty well rounded. At least it could be…
If MacPhail would sign Beltre and Bedard I’d be pretty pleased, primarily because I don’t see Lackey coming to Baltimore no matter the offer.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Oct 5, 2009 3:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bedard won't pitch until mid-season, I thought?
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct
it’s entirely possible that he won’t make it back either after the dreaded labrum tear. i was all for signing him until that happened (unless he wants a HUGE pay cut). now i’m turning my attention to john lackey.
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lackey...
Not gonna happen.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
by rebop on Oct 5, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make the check big enough....
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
by duck on Oct 5, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh bummer
Well I guess that puts a hole in my plan, as I wanted somebody ready for the beginning of the season so we could use AAA for those mid-season injuries. Bummer. Maybe a guy like Rich Harden or Randy Wolf then?
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Oct 5, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for Harden
maybe i’m one of the few. I love the guy and if he gets injured (like he usually does) well, then you call in the young guns.
by daveh873 on Oct 5, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
harden and lackey > harden or lackey
let’s get both. harden will get hurt in about two weeks, but i still like him. plus if he gets hurt we can move guthrie back to the rotation from his spot as closer…….
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lackey
I just don’t think it’s realistic that Lackey will sign with us, even though we are in “Phase 2.” Harden is much more realistic imo.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Oct 5, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably
but i’d love for them to get both even tho we’ll have to write a big ass check to make that happen
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too love Harden
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Oct 5, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have faith in Bergesen
I’m extremely distraught about his injury, because it definitely sounds like something that can linger. He’s not even in a cast, and he still can’t run? I don’t like the sound of that. He said it was the worst pain he’s felt in his life. I hope mentally he can bounce back from that. I know it’s cliche, but you CAN’T hit being affraid of getting hit, and you can;’t pitch being affraid of being hit.
Other that the injury, I have a lot of faith in Bergesen. He was too good. His mechanics were great, he just OOZED confidence. I know I’m putting too much value in arbitrary things, Bergesen was the man.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Oct 5, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if luke scott isn't a power threat
then what is he? lets sign adam dunn, i hear he plays a mean first base.
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
by swilhelmross on Oct 5, 2009 3:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You realize he's still under contract right?
We could sign him NEXT year.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would be awesome.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Oct 5, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, no it wouldn't
i dont want him now, won’t want him then. this lineup seems like its a power hitting corner infielder or 2 away from stacking up w/ anyone. I really dont want to go down the Beltre/Huff/Konerko road. Lets just put the pieces in place for 2011, and hope that josh bell is somehow amazing.
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
by swilhelmross on Oct 5, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused.
You don’t want a guy who hits 40 HRs every single year?
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And walks 100+ times?
Um, sign me up. Supposedly he takes a hard line against DHing, but I’m sure Andy Mac could try the Jedi Mind Trick on him.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
by Brotz13 on Oct 5, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you WILL pull a brett favre, retire, and void your contract!
then you’ll sign with the o’s
by twistedlogic on Oct 5, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not this year, when we'd have to trade for him.
My $.02. I’m all for Adam Dunn when all he costs is money. I’m not giving up any of our young stable – to the Nats – for Dunn w/1 year left on his contract. Uh-uh.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on Oct 5, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol that was my original point.
But he said he didn’t want him in the past, doesn’t want him now, and doesn’t want him in the future. That’s the part I was questioning.
by O'sFan21 on Oct 5, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Power hitting corner IFer or 2..."
Agreed. Okay. Troy Glaus and… would people mind if we did a 2 year contract for someone like Jim Thome or Carlos Delgado? Because I’ve seen the FA list & there ain’t much out there.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on Oct 5, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you guys think of Guerrero DH?
Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com
Follow me on twitter
by ravensfan3 on Oct 5, 2009 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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