Planning for the future.
by ItsBenFeldman on Oct 8, 2009 4:15 AM EDT
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PrintSo as I see it, despite how unbelievably painful the end of this season was (with the sort of nut not really enouh 4 game winning streak to end the season helping too little to dull the pain). We can start having off-season fun, Figuring out what we want our lineup and roration to look like next year
Obviously were set at 2nd base, Catch, Short (assuming nothing betters comes along short term), Right and Center.
I would suggest plopping Luke Down on 1st base, with Wiggy there to hit against lefties when the need arises. Pie will start in Left Field. Reimold DH. When a tough RHP goes, Nolan can take a day off and Luke can DH with Wiggy sliding over. hopefully Josh Bell is ready by April, Wiggy can play the position until then, If Brandon Snyder continues to hit, we bring him into the corner rotation half-way through the year and see what happens.
OR we could try to sign one of these bigger bats (Ill amit none of them are too big)...:Blalock, Branyan, Delgado, NiCk Johnson, Beltre, Glaus, Figgins to bolster our corner corps. siging one of these could push Scott into a trade, or into a platoon as DH with reimold, also getting some time in left.
With appropriate increased production from AJ, PIE, WIeters, a return to form form Markakis, and moderate lines from rookies (Bell and Snyder) as well as moderate production from whichever older corner man we bring in on a 1-2 yeard deal should provide us with an above average offense on rebuild year 2 - Back toward 500.
Hopefully by ready to play year - 2011 we can pick up somebody to play short - Reyes (club option), Julio Lugo, JJ Hardy, Jhonny Peralta, Jimmy Rollins, and a big older corner guy to offset whatever we haven't gotten from Bell and Snyder: Lance Berkman, Derrek Lee, Carlos Pena
With this offense, C. Wieters, 1b - Lee/Berkman/Pena, 2b- roberts, ss - JJ Hardy, 3b- Josh Bell, Lf- Pie/ Reimold, CF-Jones, RF- Markakis, DH- Adam Dunn/ Jason Kubel/ Jayson Werth
and whatever make it to the top out of Britton, Arrietta, matusz, Tillman, Bergesen, Erbe bolstered by maybe a Beckett, Halladay, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb.
Thats the playoffs in just....lots....of...not entirely improbable moves
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Um.
I don’t think you can plan to have signed one of Lee/Berkman/Pena AND a good SS AND one of the top SP.
I mean at this rate why don’t we also “plan” to sign Joe Mauer so he and Wieters can split catcher and DH?
I really don’t think this constitutes a plan.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
well that comparrisson is a little silly right?
derrek lee would be going into his age 35-36 season, berkman would be 34-35, this isn’t quite like signing at 29 year old mark texieria, I’m not expecting them to be big boppers either, maybe short term, 2 year deal type things.
Also, top shortstop? JJ Hardy was demoted this year, Lugo and Pheralta are hardly stars…yeah Rollins is a big one, but its ok to through out one huge name given that this team will have money to spend. But comparing signing a demoted SS and a 35 year old 1st baseman isn’t really quite the same as planning on signing the best catcher in baseball.
But basically, I think it does make sense to spend a ton of money on one or two players. Our core is hopefully going to be great, but our payroll will be very low, and will allow us to spend some serious money
by ItsBenFeldman on Oct 8, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps you have a point. Maybe I was just a jerk early in the morning. ;)
But at the same time, signing 35 year old 1st basemen and washed-up stars are exactly WHY this team is in trouble now…because that’s what we always tried to do. Rollins is a star b/c of name recognition at this point. His 85 OPS+ and 296 OBP this year do not say “star” and they certainly don’t indicate “big contract 2 years from now.”
The Os need desperately to stay away from has-beens. Yes, by 2011 or 2012, it might be time to go out and drop a huge wad of cash on a player…but I don’t know that we can identify who that player is yet.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 8, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
you have to figure Rollins will rebound some but…
The problem with 1st base is really that- other than massive deals, the best players available seem to be semi-has beens. I really don’t think we should mortgage our future for Adrian Gonzalez, I also don’t think brandon synder will ever be more than a .290/.340/.440 first baseman at his very best (and our very luckiest). Given that, paying 13 mil for 3 years of a Berkman type- someone who should still be able to give us .265/.375/.465 at worst, seems like it might be the way to go, even if it isn’t exactly thrilling.
by ItsBenFeldman on Oct 8, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Hot Stove Moves
The Orioles are on the right track, but are going to be short one big time power hitter and don’t appear to have one in developement. There also aren’t any available on the free agent market. So……. they need to trade from their surplus to obtain one that another team views as too expensive or a budding power hitter who is blocked on his current team.
Luke Scott is not ever going to be a dependable power hitting clean up guy. Snyder may become a good MLB player eventually, but he won’t bang out 40 HRs either. We have more OFers than can play all at once, and Pie probably has market value as a CFer, now too. Our starting pitching looks like Matusz, Tillman, Bergesen and whoever develops amongst Arrieta, Britton, Patton, Guthrie, etc. Hernandez, Berken and Uehara are all suitable for the bullpen.
I think McPhail et al should make a 40 HR first baseman their #1 priority and not get swayed by the Snyder, Hughes, Waring, Blalock, Wigginton possibilities. None of them will be that big banger. Trade for a big time or developing big time power hitter. Trade anyone except: Weiters, Bell, Reimold, Jones, Markakis, Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, Britton.
But where are you getting 40 HR if you don't trade one of those guys?
Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez are NOT coming here for a package of Hernandez, Erbe, Pie and Snyder, ok? You want one of those guys, be prepared to give up Tillman or Matusz.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 8, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
If not Gonzalez or Fielder, then .......
…….. why not an emerging star with 40 HR potential (I hate that word) that is blocked on his current team. Jake Fox of the Cubs or Justin Smoak with Texas are possibilities. The Cubs need a CFer with speed, and the Rangers always need pitching. Would the Cubs trade Fox for the return of Felix Pie? Or offer the Rangers those people you referred to for Smoak (Hernandez, Erbe, Snyder and Pie).
no way
are we getting smoak, unless we give up wieters or matusz AND tillman
by ItsBenFeldman on Oct 8, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'll pass on Chris Davis
and his 2Ks/AB ratio. OK…maybe it’s not 2 Ks / AB but it sure as hell seems like it.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
We also dont have a surplus of anything right now.
Until we have a complete rotation with no identifiable holes, I am totally against trading any of our pitching prospects. In my opinion, we dont even know the pitchers are yet who will get us a big bat in the future, because they arent on the team yet (except maybe Hobgood).
It will be the next few draft classes that likely will provide us with that surplus to trade from. As long as we have a potential need for a prospect, it seems foolish to trade them away just to fill a different hole.
I guess you expect MacPhail to just conjour up a slugging All-Star.
Baltimore better hope that at least one of Waring, Snyder or Bell develop into an above average MLB hitter. Even with that, Weiters and Jones are going to have to put up top 20 batting performances in more than one category.
Personally, if the O’s young pitchers don’t defy the odds (i.e. more than one develops into a top end starter) I don’t foresee that bright of a future. With really good pitching, a young team of decent hitters that plays above average defense at most positions can compete, even in the AL East. But there is nothing I see in the next two years that says the O’s are going to field a batting lineup that can hit with the Sox and Yankees.
hakkaa päälle !
I definitley do not think Bell or Snyder will be ready by April
Bell has not even played Triple A yet and Snyder really struggled there and I think he will get more time at Triple A. Snyder has a better chance to make it in April but its sitll a very small chance.
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Reimold to first
OF of Pie, Jones, Markakis
DH Scott
1B Reimold
All I’d do is sign Beltre and Rich Harden.
And also, I don’t think Snyder will be a significant piece, and I am concerned about Bell’s struggles v. lefties. Neither are ready now, that’s for sure.
Librarians are hiding something
If Scott has value, .......
I think the Orioles should trade him, now. He has to be one of the streakiest hitters I’ve ever seen. I would trade him in a minute for a power hitting 1B prospect or a reliever. If the team thinks Reimold can play 1B, that’s ok. Otherwise let him DH and play some LF. I’m also not sure Pie hasn’t performed well enough to be worthwhile trade fodder as well. Fiorentino was impressive as a 4th outfielder. So why not an outfield of Reimold, Jones and Markakis with Scott and Pie traded to fill our crying need at 1B? DH can be filled pretty easily, I think.
What sort of player exactly do you think they could get back for Scott and Pie?
I feel like you might be seriously overestimating both of their trade values.
any player is tradable
Outside of a few. I don’t know what the market would be for Luke Scott so I’m on the fence with him, though we could do worse at DH. He is under team control for another 3 years IIRC and we should be able to compete in that timeframe (or we better be).
Felix Pie really came on as the season progressed. His post ASB OPS of 843 (I’ll cede that it’s only 145 ABs) only trailed Reimold (880) and Roberts (849). (Again, only post ASB.) I wasn’t really impressed with Reimold in LF defensively. I was wondering today if moving him to 3B would actually be a better use of his arm, but I have no idea if he could pull that off. It would be nice if he could be corner IF/OF type guy. But it remains to be seen if he will have the bat in the long term to pull that off (which is true of Pie too).
Librarians are hiding something
for 3b
lets get mat gamel! what will it take?
Britton and then some
Gamel would be a great first baseman for the Os, but the cost might be too much.
We’ll see what Aubrey, Snyder, and Hughes can do in Spring Training. Who knows, if Aubrey’s numbers at the end of the season were any indication, he might be the man to beat.
Would Gamel be an upgrade?
over Mike Aubrey, Hughes or Snyder? Has Gamel ever shown 40 HR potential? And what does his current team need that the Orioles might be willing to trade?
It’s believed that Gamel has 30+ homer power, should start out with loads of doubles, and decent defense, at best. Moving him to first base makes a lot of sense because of defensive problems.
The Brewers are looking for pitching and the Os have a lot. The problem is that they would probably want major league ready or close pitching to agree to anything, so there in lies the problem. Patton wouldn’t interest them too much as he had a terrible time in Triple-A and because of his injury history and Berkin and Hernandez aren’t the kind of talent the Brewers would want for their #2 prospect. It would take a Arrieta, Britton, or someone close to that to make that deal work.
Again, Aubrey, Synder, and Hughes are untested throughout a full season. We saw some power and defense out of Aubrey in September and October but who know if that’s for real.
I’m guessing MacPhail will stick with Aubrey and Scott at first next season with Hughes and Snyder waiting in Triple-A. If Aubrey doesn’t produce power numbers (doubles at this point) then you look make the appropriate move. There’s no point in jumping the gun and signing someone unless we know the options that exist aren’t going to work out.
This team is still another season away from contention. Allow the kids time to progress and test themselves, then you sign free agents to fill in the gaps.
That is, in my opinion, with the exception of John Lackey. Trucks need to drop money off at his house as soon as the Series is over.
Let It Be Known
I would love it if the Orioles somehow managed to get their hands on Adrian Gonzalez.
If I could have my unrealistic fantasy that is slightly grounded in reality by at least imagining adding players who might be available, it would be Gonzalez at first and Adam Dunn as the DH. That offense would kick ass.
dream on
i like where your head’s at tho
by twistedlogic on Oct 11, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The asking price for Gonzalez, at least at the deadline, was astronomical
I think he’d be a good fit, but definitely not for what the Padres would demand in return.
I’d like Albert Pujols. He’s a free agent after next season.
"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
I'd also like perfect clones of Walter Johnson and Sandy Koufax.
And hey, it’s just about as likely, right?
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 12, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I wouldn't kick either of them off the spring training roster.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 13, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take Bob Gibson and Satchel Page
Intimidation pitchers. That’s what the kids need in this rotation. They need a dude to show them how to bear down on the batter as we watch a puddle for around the plate.
No Fear.
That would be sick
Especially because Gonzalez is still a good hitter in the hitter unfriendly Petco Park. His road split is .306/.402/.643. He would tear is up at Camden Yards
Check out my website, it has scouting reports for all the Orioles' top prospects and is updated daily. www.oriolesprospects.com
Follow me on twitter
by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 12, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
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