Sunday Bird Droppings
by Camden Chat on Nov 1, 2009 8:00 AM EST
in Open Threads
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PrintDid everyone have a nice Halloween? What was your costume? I was a pirate. ARGH! I don't have any just off the presses news clippings for you, because honestly, as I type this it's 9 a.m. on Halloween morning and I have no intention of being anywhere near a computer late tonight or early tomorrow morning. I think you'll enjoy these stories all the same.
Roar from 34 - Baltimore's 1979 World Series Parade
I mean, it's just awesome. I wish I'd been around to see it. -Stacey
The Loss Column - The Elephant In the Kitchen
What does Andy MacPhail do when free agents don't want to come to Baltimore? -Stacey
Top Five Baseball Movies | Spectator Blog
This random chick picked the five best baseball movies, but she's all wrong. Any list that doesn't include Major League is bogus regardless of the other choices. -Stacey
Harvesting Baseball's 'Magic Mud'
The only mud good enough for major league baseball -Stacey
P-shape dead worm is Phillies fan's charm
First the trading sex for tickets lady, now the dead worm lady. Phillies fans, man. -Stacey
Good evening Sir, my name is Steve. I come from a rough area. I used to be addicted to crack but now I am off it and trying to stay clean. That is why I am selling Open Threads.
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The loss column article
It might also be more diffiult to lure big free agents to a crime ridden, run down city. As much as it is “home” to a lot of us, if you had many options of where to set up camp, Baltimore is going to be very low on the list. Maybe just ahead of Detroit and Milwaukee and just behind Cleveland.
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Nov 1, 2009 8:57 AM EST reply actions
Milwaukee seems nice. Other than it being land of eternal winter.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
I don't know about that
Sure Baltimore has its troubles but a millionaire baseball player isn’t going to be a part of it. They’ll either live out in the burbs like Ripken, Mora, Markakis, or downtown near the harbor or Canton or somewhere like that if they’re in the city. Maryland overall is one of the richest states in the country, so I’m pretty sure a baseball player could find a decent place to live.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
It's still nowhere near an attractive city for a professional baseball player.
Among the East Coast teams almost all the other cities would be preferable from just about any perspective you could think of. Maybe some people might prefer Baltimore to Tampa, but not many I don’t think.
There's nothing to stop them from having a home in Tampa
and a place in/near Baltimore as a crash pad for games. And crazy partying. I don’t care what Huff thinks, Tampa sucks.
"I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
Well right
But what does that have to do with anything? Most players have multiple homes, but they still have to live in their team’s city for a good chunk of time each year. And Baltimore is REALLY low on the list of cities where anybody wants to spend any time.
I think it depends on the person, really
I mean, I love Baltimore but I understand why people wouldn’t want to live there. But like I said, if the suburbs/exurbs are your thing there are a lot of really nice ones in Maryland.
Whatever, though, this is the kind of thing that gets discussed about a bad team. If the Orioles 1) get good and 2) will pay the money, it won’t matter if Baltimore is “undesirable.”
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
oh and
With my comment about the suburbs I didn’t mean to make it sound like I believe no baseball players would want to live in Baltimore. Re-reading it, it sounds that way a bit. Plenty of O’s live in and enjoy Baltimore. I just meant if they were the type that didn’t want to live in a city anyway.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
that's just a ridiculous, untrue comment.
there are dozens of MLB cities which would fall below baltimore on many players’ lists.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
ML Cities less desirable than Baltimore
in my opinion.
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Milwaukee
Houston
Arlington
Kansas City
Minneapolis
Detroit
Cleveland
Toronto (it’s in Canada, for crying out loud!)
Note I haven’t been to many of these cities, but still. Who wants to live in Minnesota?
Although in fairness to O21 his first comment only mentioned East Coast cities.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
Thank you for correcting ZK.
I don’t think any of those count as East Coast.
Atlanta – head and shoulders above Baltimore
DC, NY, Boston – obviously preferable
Miami – preferable
Philly – not much better of a city, but I think it would be an easy choice for most players (dramatically better restaurants, bars, nightlife, history, etc)
So that leaves Tampa? Are there any others that I’m forgetting?
Also just from an objective perspective (I have no emotional attachment to the city of baltimore other than the O’s and have been to a lot of those other cities you mention), I don’t know how strong of an argument there is that any of those cities are any worse…
that's because it's all personal perspective
plenty of people choose to live in Maryland. Just because you believe that those cities are “obviously preferable” doesn’t mean everyone does. But like I said before, nobody will give a shit about this sort of thing once they’re good. No FA is going to say, “The O’s are contenders and willing to pay me fair market value, but Baltimore is a horseshit town so I’m going to play for the Nats.”
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I guess you're right - I wasn't thinking so much about MD other than the city.
I also think I’m thinking of non-suburban types (young, rich athletes in my head are never suburban types) and I guess that’s a pretty big generalization.
I'd say that's a fair generalization
But not always true. Look at Nicky, he hauled ass up to Monkton as soon as he could, now he lives there year round in the middle of nowhere.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
A.J. Burnett has a ton of Yankee money
and he lives right up in Monkton. I think Markakis lives around that area, too.
Why doesn't anyone appreciate all of my hard work?
The least you could do is read my comment.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
To hell with that
Don’t go all power-trippy on me. You can’t make me read your comments! How dare you!
But also
I was talking about the city in comparison to others in a vaccum. If the O’s become a contender it’s still going to be a problem when they are competing for FAs with other contenders in better cities. Basically the city of Baltimore is never going to be a selling point. Whereas NY, Boston, Atlanta, etc I think are selling points. Now if the O’s are contenders and they are competing with non-contenders you’re right nobody’s going to give a shit. But if the O’s are contenders are are in a bidding war with the Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox, their cities are selling points while ours is not. It’s probably nothing that another couple million bucks a year or an additional contract year couldn’t alleviate, but that’s kind of annoying.
Magic Mud
Eggplant and baseball mud, THATS what NJ does!
by daveh873 on Nov 1, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
hey!
how’s your $100M QB doin’?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
well...
he was the 2nd ranked qb in the league through 5 games. But I guess 3 games undoes that. How ‘bout them Redskins? Hows that 100 mil DT working out for you? Did he turn out to be that “missing piece” that the skins always think they’ve tracked down each year? Money well spent in my opinion. The Skins clearly didnt need any other pieces.
btw...
has he stomped on anybody’s head yet this season? Classy dude thatt Haynesworth…
by daveh873 on Nov 1, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish he'd
stomp on more Cowboy’s heads.
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Nov 2, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
ya know...
when I first saw him do it, I thought it was messed up. I still do. However, if its gotta happen, it couldnt happen to a better organization than the cowgirls.
hey, i KNOW my team sucks.
EVERYONE knows my team sucks.
Just very few people realize that YOUR team sucks as well. Especially your overrated QB.
See, the ‘Skins at least MIGHT be good in a couple of years, if they do a complete rebuild. But the Giants? There’s no replacing Eli now. You’re stuck.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Nobody wants to replace Eli
Eli is not the problem right now. I think its gotten to the point that Eli is underrated, because everyone has this perception that he’s just no good. This is the same qb that took the team through the playoffs 2 years ago playing every game on the road and beating the only 18-0 team ever. He has bad stretches, sure, but I’ll take him over a guy like Romo or Cambell or Cutler or Rivers. Eli actually wins big games. Keep watching with those hate filled goggles though. I’ll keep enjoying watching an organization that actually knows how to field a contender.
Oh, and saying the ‘skins MIGHT be good in a couple of years? Yea. That MIGHT happen (though more than likely not), but i’m pretty damn confident the Giants will be right in the middle of things at that point. Thats what a stable qb, front office, and head coach bring to a team. Enjoy watching your team lose to Detroit while trying to put down Eli Manning though.
hahahahahahahaha
I’m sorry – I couldn’t get past the part where you said that Eli was underrated. We’re still talking about the luckiest QB to every win a superbowl right? Who constantly relies on circus catches (like the ones that won him the superbowl) to make up for poorly thrown passes? Just want to make sure we’re talking about the same guy…
yup
keep hating. let me put it this way. A Rangers fan friend of mine used to always talk about Brodeur and tell me how overrated he was. How the Devils’ defense made him look better than he was. My response? Whatever. The Devils won, and continued to win, regardless of if it was because of or in spite of Brodeur’s talent. You wanna tell me how good or how bad Eli is? Great, have a blast. While you guys were trying to figure out just how bad Eli was, I was enjoying watching him and his team win one of the best super bowls ever and then go on to be the best team in the NFC the year after that. No matter if he’s overrated or underrated, the Giants win, and do so pretty often. I guess i’ll just have to settle for that.
But by all means, pick apart individual components of a team obviously better than your own. Whatever gets you through the season.
well
My post was more of a response to both you and Z. I do love how he’s “lucky” and relies on “circus catches” though. You know what, you’re right. Eli sucks. I mean what do I know. Ive only watched every game he’s played since he was drafted and you obviously have done tons of research into his “luckiness”.
In any event, it doesnt really matter, does it? He won a super bowl. I got to enjoy it. Thats all I really care about.
I'm happy for you (not really but I'll say I am).
But just don’t be surprised if people think it’s ridiculous when you say he’s underrated. Especially since you’re argument that he’s underrated is that he won a SB. Yeah no mediocre QBs have ever won a SB before…
thats not my argument
my argument is more along the lines that through 5 games this season he was the #2 rated QB (not that QB rating is a great metric or that stats are really all that important for a QB due to system, O-line play, skill position talent, and other factors blah blah blah). Where were all the people saying he was great at that point? Now he’s had a couple bad games in which he’s been forced into situations that are most definitely not going to help him look too good (poor O-line play, lack of run calls, paying down by multiple scores) and everyone loves to say he’s so terrible.
My point is when he’s good to great, no one recognizes him for it (instead making comments such as “he’s lucky”), but when he has a few bad games he’s just garbage. That’s what I would call underrated.
And yes, bad qb’s have won super bowls. However, they usually arent the reason said team made it through the playoffs and then SB mvp at the end of it. Sure, a couple great plays get the dredit, but i’m pretty sure it took more than those 2 or 3 plays to get through 4 road playoff games.
You think he was the reason they made it through the playoffs???
The o-line and running game carried the team. He got the SB MVP because of absurd circus catches.
And when he was “good to great”, nobody gave him credit because when you watch him play you see a string of passes underthrown, overthrown, behind receivers, high and over the middle, etc. When he’s “good to great” his receivers bail him out, and when he’s not (the last 3 games) they don’t.
exactly my point
when he’s good to great its because of others, but when he’s not its not because recievers are dropping passes or not running the right routes or not picking up blocks. Oh no, of course not. And when he used to be good it was because Plax made him look good. This year no Plax and he started the year bettter than ever. Why? Luck probably. Do yourself a favor and check the highlights from the first 5 weeks. He was spot-on.
While you’re at it, watch the super bowl run again too.
The reason
is because his skills aren’t very good and everybody can see it. Very incosisntent passing accuracy. I don’t need to watch the highlights – I watched the games. I saw receivings bailing him out left and right. That’s his game.
Again..
its always the recievers bailing him out right? Before his injury, which everyone likes to forget happened, he was 2nd in QB rating in the league and had thrown 10 TD’s to 2 INTs and had a 65% completeion percentage. Oh yea, this was with a group of WR’s that everyone thought would expose Eli for what he truly is. I’m sure that all those completions and TD passes were because of the amazing talent of Steve Smith and Mario Manningham bailing him out though. Listen to yourself. Luck? Recievers bailing him out? You laugh at people when they use arguments like that while talking about baseball, but because its football and you dont like Eli they are valid?
Whatever, you’re going to to keep saying he sucks and I’m going to keep disagreeing. There’s really no point to this.
Yup.
That was a result of receivers grabbing passes thrown behind them, above them, into the ground etc.
When do I laugh at people when they use these arguments in baseball? You can throw all the stats you want at me about Jeter, but I will tell you that he’s lucky. He’s got 8 hits in this world series and I think he’s yet to hit a ball that would roll to the fence if a fielder didn’t pick it up. Consistently getting hits without hitting the ball hard (what he’s done his whole career) is luck. Same goes for Eli – he’s made a living out of throwing the ball up there and having his receivers win the battle with defenders over it.
OK
I forgot how he’s had the best reciever corp ever in order to make all those amazingly lucky completions.
You see it your way, i’ll see it mine. There’s no real point in continuing any further. If you really wish to, though, could we at least move this to a more recent thread?
It's true
that nobody thought these receivers would be able to bail him out the way they had in the past, but his luck continues and they are!
Do you really think
That Derek Jeter has been lucky for 15 years?
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
How else do you explain
a hitter that consistently makes poor contact but gets lots of hits? Take last night’s game as an example – he hit two 10-hop ground balls that just happened to roll through the infield. 4 feet in one direction or another and they are outs (one a double play). Are you telling me it’s skill that he guided them through the infield? I’m not buying that. If you want to say “well he put the ball in play which allows good things to happen” then fine, but I think good things happen to him more often than other hitters. I just don’t know what other word to use besides luck for that and I’ve watched it happen for 15 years, as Stacey points out. I really just don’t know how else to describe it.
Maybe
he’s a good directional hitter. maybe he can aim his hits. maybe luck is a bigger part of all athletes than we like to think. But to say that he has been that lucky for that long is just not feasible. I hate him as much as the next guy. Probably alot more than the next guy. It just cant all be luck. I mean, thats what averages are all about right?
I know that Tony Gwynn made a HoF career
out of putting hitting balls just out of the reach of the SS and 3B, and he did it on purpose. He wasn’t a power hitter at all, do you think he was lucky for 20 years?
Derek Jeter may not hit the snot out of the ball every time but there is no way someone gets lucky for 15 years. He’s a hell of a hitter who knows what he’s doing.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
But Tony Gwynn
lined the ball between SS and 3B – he didn’t hit 7-bouncers between them. He was a pure line drive hitter. I don’t think ANYBODY would describe Jeter as a line drive hitter, would they?
Don’t get me wrong – I think he’s very good. I just think he’s not nearly as good as his statistics would indicate.
To Dave – I’m definitely not saying it’s all luck (same for Eli – they both obviously have the talent to be in MLB/NFL and succeed). I just think that he (Jeter in this case) has been much luckier than most. I just have never seen a hitter get more blooper, bleeders, and seeing eye singles and it’s not like he’s trying to direct the ball like Ichiro. I mean he goes oppo intentionally almost exclusively and he’s surely skilled and hitting the ball to that side, but that doesn’t explain the slow rollers that just happen to make it through the infield.
Maybe he's been lucky
I don’t know. The odds that luck would follow someone around for 15 years seem astronomically low.
Just for fun I compared Gwynn and Jeter’s stats, here’s what I came up with. Gwynn’s career BABIP was .345, Jeter’s so far has been .362. Gwynn’s career BA was .338, Jeter’s so far is .317. I suppose that would indicate Jeter’s had more luck than Gwynn ever did, although both had such abover average BABIPs over their career that it’s hard to say.
I looked up their hit trajectory on b-r.com also.
Gwynn:
36.5% of hits were ground balls
49% of hits were line drives
13.8% were fly balls
0.7% were bunts
(this is only for his last 2130 hits as these stats weren’t collected prior to 1988)
Jeter:
38% of hits were ground balls
46.6% were line drives
13.8% were fly balls
1.5% were bunts
It’s really not that much of a difference. It’s possible that because we see so much of Derek Jeter, being that he plays on a team that is not only in the O’s division but also shoved down our throats by every media outlet that you have a skewed perception. Or maybe not, what do I know.
All I know is luck doesn’t last that long.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
Lies!!!
2.4% difference in line drives is enormous!!! lol
Damnit why does somebody always have to bring facts into the god damn discussion??? It’s well known that they have a liberal bias.
I bet if you included his first 1,000 hits his line drive percentage would have been 70%!
hahahh well we'll never know
but if you want to imagine Tony Gwynn hitting nothing but line drives over his first 1000 hits then who am I to stop you?
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I'm pretty sure
that they were lazers that were 6 feet high the entire way and actually lodged in the wall. Outfielders had to pry them out and then throw them back in.
I don’t know. The odds that luck would follow someone around for 15 years seem astronomically low.
It’s not luck at all…. or lots of players are just as lucky as Jeter. Lots of players every get these type of “cheap” hits that O’sfan21 points out. And lots of players don’t get these cheap hits. Check out fangraphs and arrange the data by BABIP. I’m not sure what the exact number is but I believe mostly everybody evens out around .300 BABIP. If you bat an obcene amount above or below that number in a given year, it’s usually luck. Jeter’s .career BABI{ 317 isn’t far off that mark. So he really hasn’t been all that lucky. In fact, his luck has been quite common.
I did a quck search to find a quick primer on BABIP. This is the best I could find.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Wait a minute.....
Trent Dilfer, hands down, is the luckiest QB to ever win the Super Bowl.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Nov 3, 2009 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hey!
I’m in Baltimore for the weekend and I just found a dead Oriole bird! It’s going to become the official Orioles good-luck bird!
I’m going to put it next to the TV and we’re going to win 110 games next year!!
PS
It’s disturbing how many results you get when you run a Google image search for ‘dead Oriole’……
by NewYorkOriole on Nov 1, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
oh my GOD
You know, the only Oriole bird I’ve ever seen is a dead one also.
Are Baltimore Orioles endangered or something? That picture is kind of creepy.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Nov 1, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Wikipedia says Orioles are "least concern"
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Nov 1, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Ive never seen a dead one
I used to see about 1 a year when I lived in Ringwood (a more woodsy area of NJ). I havent seen one in at least 3 years though. If I saw a dead one on the streets of B’more i’d probably either take it as a sign of the coming apocalypse or at least of my own imminent demise.
I didn't actually see one....
I found that picture on Google, just for fun after reading the Philly worm story…..
by NewYorkOriole on Nov 1, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I saw an Oriole in my yard this summer, and it was only the second one I’ve ever seen. I know they’re not endangered, but they definately don’t seem to be very common here in Central PA.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
Baltimore Orioles actually migrate
between New England and Mexico. your best chance to see one is during the migration seasons in May or September when they are passing through. They don’t actually nest in the Baltimore Area very often.
The movie list: well, 3 outta 5 are reasonable choices
The Natural, 61* and A League of their Own (minus the embarrassing final 20 min; and they could’ve lost the rival-sisters plot and put more Jon Lovitz in to the general betterment of the whole enterprise, come to that) all have much to recommend them.
We’ve been through this before (a well-organized CC-tech could probably find the thread in a trice) but for the record, let me recommend (again):
Field of Dreams [duh]
Eight Men Out
It Happens Every Spring
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
And let me just say a public thank-you to Washington State for saving me from bankruptcy
by whupping the spread against Notre Dim, losing by 26 instead of 27. The Curse of the Palouse strikes again, hee-hee, and in San Antonio no less.
And way to lose ultra-big there, SC – although that will probably make us money in January, ‘cause it’ll lower their spread in the Upper-Mediocrity Bowl against some Big Thud team, whom they will embarrass by double figures, yawn. In any case, you gotta hand it to Orygun, who’ve lost 6 d-starters (three all-conf) during the season. Wow. Bet they’d love to meet Boise again somewhere…
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
that pic of Markakis
The picture is a little disturbing. Does he have elephantitis of his right hand?
Librarians are hiding something
I think Ed Reed just killed a man
That hit on Moreno was vicious. Clean, but lethal.
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Nov 1, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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