The Changing of the O's
2007 - Pre-MacPhail. 2010 - Based solely on current players. How much have we improved, really? Discuss. Is it fair to say that the only position where the 2010 Orioles are worse off than the 2007 Orioles is shortstop?
All lineups are based on who played that most games at that position in each year.
| 2007 Baltimore Orioles |
2008 Baltimore Orioles |
2009 Baltimore Orioles |
2010 Baltimore Orioles |
| C: Ramon Hernandez |
C: Ramon Hernandez |
C: Matt Wieters |
C: Matt Wieters |
| 1B: Kevin Millar |
1B: Kevin Millar |
1B: Aubrey Huff |
1B: Luke Scott |
| 2B: Brian Roberts |
2B: Brian Roberts |
2B: Brian Roberts |
2B: Brian Roberts |
| 3B: Melvin Mora |
3B: Melvin Mora |
3B: Melvin Mora |
3B: Ty Wigginton |
| SS: Miguel Tejada |
SS: Juan Castro |
SS: Cesar Izturis |
SS: Cesar Izturis |
| LF: Jay Payton |
LF: Luke Scott |
LF: Nolan Reimold |
LF: Felix Pie |
| CF: Corey Patterson |
CF: Adam Jones |
CF: Adam Jones |
CF: Adam Jones |
| RF: Nick Markakis |
RF: Nick Markakis |
RF: Nick Markakis |
RF: Nick Markakis |
| DH: Aubrey Huff |
DH: Aubrey Huff |
DH: Luke Scott |
DH: Nolan Reimold |
29 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I like that.
But there is no way Pie plays the most games at LF unless two players lose appendages during the year.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
Heh yeah probably
But like I said, based on current players only it’s pretty much the only way to go.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
i agree. Isn’t Reimold the LF with Pie the super-sub OF?… either way the 2010 chart shows that the O’s most likely will sign at least one guy, if not two. Wiggy and Pie are both best off the bench and Scott was never given a real shake at 1B, most likely leaving him to be the DH role.
I don't know that I agree that Pie is best off the bench
But yeah, 2010 is just presumption based on the idea that the O’s don’t get anyone else (which of course they will)
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I guess after seeing his impressive finish last year that argument makes sense. Maybe it’s just my personal preference but I like him off the bench for the flexibility he could provide (defensive OF replacement, late game base-runner if he learns to read the 3B coach, regular spot starts all over the OF to keep Jones, Markakis, Reimold fresh, etc). I’m just not a fan with Reimold at DH because I think we’re just scratching the surface with him. I could see Montanez as the OF displaced to being the DH though…
He may end up being best off the bench
I just think it might be too soon to tell.
Montanez has no place on this team.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
side question: do you think Montanez is still considered an asset / prospect enough to include in a deal? OR will the O’s try him out at DH? I agree he has no place on this team so the best way he could make it is as the RH DH platoon to Scott (LH DH).
I don't think anybody other than that one guy on this blog
has considered Montanez an asset for the last 3 years.
He might be a throw in for someone
But I don’t think he has much value.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
The real question
is, to me, how much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve for the overall roster improvement (and I think it’s pretty obvious that the overall positional strength has improved).
To wit, he inherited Nolan Reimold, Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts, and Matt Wieters (from the 2010 roster) although he did extend Roberts and gave Markakis a good long-term contract, these players weren’t really MacPhail’s contribution.
He did bring in Scott, Pie, Jones, Izturis, and Wigginton…which is frankly a rather hit or miss group (obviously Jones is great but the rest are at least flawed). Of course, Andy has been working on his biggest and most important job on the pitching side – though he inherited Guthrie, Hernandez, Bergesen, Arrieta, Britton, Erbe, and was basically handed Brian Matusz.
I guess what I’m saying is that, yes things have gotten better, but I’m not convinced that the difference maker has been Andy MacPhail (yet). If Josh Bell, Felix Pie, and Chris Tillman turn into studs and MacPhail signs some solid free agents (instead of the veteran trash that’s been accumulating, no offense intended to Adam Eaton), then we may truly start considering him our savior.
Unfortunately, given our competition and current standing in the heirarchy of baseball, I’m a little doubtful.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Or let me restate this
Things have gotten better, at least offensively, but what happens next – this winter and next – will be more defining than the Adam Jones trade, for good or ill.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I think if anything
Wieters, Reimold, Markakis, etc prove that maybe Flanagan should get at least a little credit.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I would give more credit to Joe Jordan than Duqnangan.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
The one thing I have to credit MacPhail for...
…is that not only has the roster improved, but the value of the roster for what is being paid has improved a lot.
Even if we say that MacPhail hasn’t been responsible for an increase in our overall talent, he’s doing it for half the cost of the 2007 team. Even if those results haven’t been felt on the field, they have been felt in the community, with Baltimore now being ranked among the best in baseball at quality affordable promotions for the fans. It may not translate in a pure wins and losses way, but making Camden a great and affordable place for Marylanders to go to the games matters to me. Maybe not as much as winning, but I do care.
McPhail has made the entire organization better and deepr (AAA through A). We’re well stocked with pitching prospects (SP, RP, and C) at all levels too. I don’t have the stats, but I do know off hand that the O’s farm system has been ranked higher and higher with each pasing year McPhail’s stuffed it with shiny, new kids.
We are worse at 3B
Since 2007 Mora was better than Ty Wigginton.
We could get into an argument about 2007 (Brian Bob, Markakis) vs 2010 same, but it’s probably a wash.
"I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
Yes, you're right
I think my entire mindset about Melvin Mora has been tainted. Hopefully that’ll clear up with time.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
So the theory is that Wiggy...
…and Scott are an upgrade over the 2007 Millar and Mora?
I can’t agree with that, because defense counts. Although I don’t think in the end that either Wiggy or Scott are our starters at those positions.
Scott is def an upgrade over Millar
IMO
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
Looking at the defensive numbers on Fangraphs...
…you’re right. Even though Millar had a pretty good 2007 season with the bat, his fielding wasn’t positive, and although it wasn’t as bad as UZR says Scott was in LF this season (Scott actually has a positive UZR at 1b but the sample size is too small to mean anything), Scott was better with the bat (although not by that much – a wOBA of .355 to Millar’s 2007 .348. Considering that Millar made less than $3m in 2007, it isn’t a huge advantage to Scott, but an advantage nonetheless.
It will interesting to see how this pans out in a couple years. In theory, guys like Wigginton, Scott, and Izturis are not part of the long term solution. The performance of the guys who step up to fill those positions will be MacPhail’s true measure, IMO.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions
it's amazing how Team has excelled at losing despite changing faces over years
a dedicated commitment to losing baseball games is nothing to sneeze at
"Whoooooooaaa Doggie!" -- Gary Thorne




















