A Preliminary Look at the 2010 AL East Offenses - Part 3
The final look at Bill James' projections will focus on the Orioles young outfield. In Part 1 I drooled over Matt Wieters, in Part 2 I went into fantasyland, and here in Part 3 I will bask in the talent of the Orioles outfield.
It's hardly news to anyone here that the Orioles outfield is one of the most promising in baseball. All four outfielders will be 26 or younger on Opening Day 2010, all have shown a lot of promise, and one has already established himself as one of the most solid outfielders in the MLB. There will surely be discussions here about what exactly to do with the outfielders given that over the course of 2009 four of them showed they are capable of being starters. Should Nolan DH with Pie in LF? Would the outfield be better with Pie in CF and Jones in LF? Is Pie too good to be a 4th OF? Should he be traded for something the Orioles need more? These are the best kinds of questions to have because they all revolve around the actual talent of the players. It's a far cry from the O's outfields of recent past (Players to man the outfield for the Orioles from 2005-2008: Jeff Fiorentino, Eli Marrero, Eric Byrnes, 40 year old B.J. Surhoff, Jay Payton, Corey Patterson, Jay Gibbons, Tike Redman, 40 year old Jeff Conine, Luis Matos, David Newhan, Sammy Sosa, Larry Bigbie, Brandon Fahey, Luis Terrero, Freddie Bynum, Lou Montanez, Luke Scott, Adam Jones, Nick Markakis).
I'm going to operate under the assumption that the Orioles outfield will be, from left to right: Nolan Reimold, Adam Jones, and Nick Markakis, with Felix Pie being the 4th outfielder who hopefully gets a good chunk of playing time. It's also safe to assume that at least one of the starters will have some injury problems (*cough* Adam Jones) and it would be nice to have someone competent to fill in.
Right Field
Nick Markakis' 2009 was something of a disappointment. After watching his batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage increase each of his first three years in the majors, they all took a step back in 2009. His walks were nearly cut in half from 2008 to 2009 which resulted in about a 50 point drop in OBP. It was disheartening to watch, but I'm not worried about Nick. I'm sure he'll be just fine. Of course, if it happens again in 2010 I will probably have a melt down.
| Nick Markakis |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| James '09 projections |
159 |
598 |
185 |
46 |
22 |
104 |
99 |
83 |
99 |
.309 |
.396 |
.503 |
.899 |
| Markakis '09 stats |
161 |
642 |
188 |
45 |
18 |
94 |
101 |
56 |
98 |
.293 |
.347 |
.453 |
.801 |
| James '10 projections |
161 | 630 |
189 |
47 |
21 |
101 |
103 |
72 |
103 |
.300 |
.374 |
.481 |
.855 |
Really, if you think about it, Nick's plate discipline was the only real thing that took a hit in 2009. Will that stick in the future? I don't think so. Whatever was happening with him I have the confidence that he'll be able to get it together. zknower hypothesized that the trade of Aubrey Huff took a toll on Nick, and FanGraphs pointed out that he started swinging more at pitches outside the strike zone and less at pitches inside the strike zone. FanGraphs also talks about his defensive dip, but I won't bother with that as one year of defensive data is hardly incriminating. I think in 2010 those numbers will go back up, he'll hit 40-45 doubles and 20ish home runs, and he'll take a few more walks. James has his OBP projected to .374, obviously affected by his 2009 season. That's not the .400 I hope to see from Nick, but it would have been tops on the team this year.
| James '10 Projections |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| Nick Swisher |
150 |
507 |
125 |
32 |
26 |
85 |
80 |
90 |
131 |
.247 |
.365 |
.467 |
.833 |
| J.D. Drew |
142 |
498 |
134 |
30 |
22 |
90 |
76 |
91 |
119 |
.269 |
.385 |
.474 |
.859 |
| Matt Joyce |
120 |
375 |
97 |
27 |
17 |
59 |
60 |
49 |
92 |
.259 |
.346 |
.483 |
.829 |
| Jose Bautista | 121 |
369 |
89 |
21 |
13 |
51 |
48 |
48 |
90 |
.241 |
.335 |
.409 |
.744 |
Man. Look, I know the Orioles suck. They lost 98 games, they have a bunch of question marks, they're not in any place to point fingers. But wow, do the Blue Jays have a lousy lineup. It wasn't that long ago that the Blue Jays outfield looked pretty sweet with Alex Rios manning right and Vernon Wells in center. They signed them both to extensions (Wells' was ridiculous from the get-go, but Rios' didn't seem too bad) and then they both started to stink. They're stuck with Wells; no one is going to take him when he makes $20M a year. They gave Rios to the White Sox for nothing but payroll relief and he played even worse there. So now it looks like their option in RF is Jose Bautista. He played LF for most of the year but after Rios left he moved to RF to make room for prospect Travis Snider. I took a glance at John Sickels' Pre-2009 prospect list and there doesn't appear to be anyone waiting in the wings, so barring a FA signing or trade, it's Jose Bautista.
Matt Joyce played just a handful of games at the big league level in 2009 but he seems to be the heir apparent to RF in Tampa Bay. Joyce, you might remember, was traded to the Rays by the Tigers in exchange for Edwin Jackson. Joyce has had two successful seasons in AAA so it seems there's nowhere left to go for him but up. The Rays re-signed Gabe Kapler to a 1 year deal so I'd imagine he'll get a chunk of time in RF as well.
J.D. Drew played 137 games in 2009. I predict he will play anywhere from 75-150 games next year. Dude tends to get hurt, but he's a great player. I would be very happy if Nick Markakis grew up to be a J.D. Drew clone who plays at least 155 games every year. A lot of people think Nick Swisher is a tool, but he can play. He makes up for his low-ish batting average with a ton of walks. I would be very happy if Nick Markakis grew up to be Nick Swisher plus 50 points on BA.
Verdict: I'll take Nicky every time. He's the youngest of any of them besides Joyce, he's always healthy, and he'll throw your ass out at second if you try to run.
Center Field
Oh Adam Jones. You're the center fielder of my dreams. You've made me forget all about the center fielders I adored as a young girl. Brady who? Devo what? You hit home runs, you leap over walls, you blow bubbles. You're just plain cool. And you're only 24! Thanks for coming into my life.
| Adam Jones |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| James '09 projections |
150 |
480 |
134 |
24 |
15 |
71 |
65 |
30 |
108 |
.279 |
.326 |
.444 |
.770 |
| Jones '09 stats |
119 |
473 |
131 |
22 |
19 |
83 |
70 |
36 |
93 |
.277 |
.335 |
.457 |
.792 |
| James '10 projections |
154 |
571 |
162 |
29 |
22 |
95 |
83 |
40 |
115 |
.284 |
.336 |
.468 |
.804 |
Adam Jones is the yin to Nick Markakis' yang. In the perfect scenario, Nick is the well rounded hitter who gets on base a lot and has some pop but isn't going to mash. Adam Jones is always going to strike out some, probably won't take that many walks (although I would like to see him improve), but he'll hit you some home runs. I think 22 is a conservative estimate for Adam. He came out of the gate in 2009 absolutely crushing the ball. Then he had a few injuries and started to slump a little and couldn't quite get HR #20. He hit #19 on August 5th but then only played 20 more slumpy games before being shut down with an ankle sprain. I don't know that he'll do it in 2010, but if Adam can even himself out some and stay healthy, he'll hit 30 home runs.
| James '10 predictions |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| Brett Gardner |
104 |
325 |
90 |
11 |
3 |
63 |
28 |
45 |
58 |
.277 |
.368 |
.368 |
.744 |
| Jacoby Ellsbury |
157 |
635 |
192 |
32 |
9 |
106 |
62 |
52 |
73 |
.302 |
.360 |
.420 |
.780 |
| B.J. Upton |
142 |
507 |
135 |
30 |
13 |
59 |
75 |
67 |
136 |
.266 |
.354 |
.414 |
.768 |
| Vernon Wells |
144 |
549 |
149 |
33 |
19 |
77 |
77 |
43 |
75 |
.271 |
.327 |
.443 |
.769 |
Life is good in center field. Well, unless you're Vernon Wells. Not only is Vernon Wells 5 years older than the next oldest CF (Ellsbury), he's not all that good defensively, he can't hit, and he plays in Canada.
B.J. Upton is a mystery. While his defense is top notch, his hitting in 2009 was just atrocious. After putting up monster stats in 2007, his numbers dropped in 2008 and were anemic in 2009 as he hit .241/.313/.373. He's been touted as one of the best young talents in baseball for a number of years, but the future is cloudy for him. I honestly have no idea what to expect. Bill James projects him to be better than in '09 but worse than he was in 2008. He'll be just 25 years old on Opening Day with 513 big league games under his belt so he's already ahead of the curve. I think he has plenty of time to get it together.
Jacoby Ellsbury just finished his second full big league season and is a good guy to have on your team. In 331 career games he's stolen 129 bases with a nearly 85% success rate. He doesn't have power but he gets on base a lot and steals pretty much all the time. He hasn't posted an OPS+ over 100 in either of his two full seasons, but if he can learn to take a few more walks he could be a force at the top of their lineup. His BB% in 2009 was just 7.3%, easily worst among AL East leadoff batters. Roberts, Jeter, and Scutaro all had BB% over 10% and B.J. Upton was at 9.2%.
It might be Brett Gardner for the Yankees next year, it might be Melky Cabrera. Gardner looked like he'd get a lot of playing time in 2009 but kept getting injured. Neither of them can really hit, but Gardner runs circles around Cabrera defensively.
Verdict: Dr. Jones is the best CF in the AL East.
Left Field
While there was no doubt who would play right field and center field in 2009, left field wasn't as settled. Luke Scott wanted to play there but got sent to DH, Felix Pie was supposed to get a shot but got pulled after a few weeks, and Lou Montanez somehow got in there a bit as well. All the while Nolan Reimold just chilled at AAA Norfolk, hitting .394/.485/.743 with 18 BB, 9 HR and 11 2B in 31 games before injuries to Adam Jones, Luke Scott, and Lou Montanez forced the Orioles to call him up. Once they did Nolan didn't give them a chance to even act like they would send him back down and left field was his for the rest of the year. He was truly one of the brightest spots of 2009. Nolan hadn't spent any time above AA before 2009 so Bill James didn't do any projections for him.
| Nolan Reimold |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| Reimold '09 stats |
104 |
358 |
100 |
18 |
15 |
49 |
45 |
47 |
77 |
.279 |
.365 |
.466 |
.831 |
| James '10 projection |
152 |
538 |
157 |
34 |
29 |
84 |
105 |
68 |
102 |
.292 |
.373 |
.524 |
.898 |
Remember I said before that Bill James tends to be pretty optimistic about young guys without much historic data? I'll try to keep that in mind, but when I first read those numbers I may have clapped my hands like I was Felix Pie beating out a throw to third. I mean, if Nolan Reimold can hit like that? If he can hit 29 HR in his second big league season? I won't even know what to do with myself.
| James '10 Projections |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| Matt Holliday |
155 |
605 |
191 |
43 |
27 |
105 |
109 |
66 |
112 |
.316 |
.391 |
.531 |
.922 |
| Jason Bay |
153 |
560 |
150 |
32 |
32 |
99 |
103 |
88 |
159 |
.268 |
.374 |
.504 |
.878 |
| Carl Crawford |
140 |
528 |
156 |
24 |
12 |
82 |
62 |
36 |
84 |
.295 |
.346 |
.439 |
.786 |
| Travis Snider |
141 |
527 |
145 |
35 |
26 |
82 |
90 |
65 |
159 |
.275 |
.357 |
.493 |
.850 |
Yes, I made Matt Holliday a Yankee. I mean, it's inevitable, isn't it? Or maybe the Red Sox will sign him and the Yankees will settle for Jason Bay. Either way, the chart works. And can I say, left field is stacked. No offense to Adam Jones or Felix Pie, but this right here is why you don't move Reimold to DH and put one of them at LF. If Reimold can possibly put up numbers like the ones Bill James projects, that means he can play with the big boys. Yes, his defense is sometimes questioned, but it's left field. He'll be ok.
Verdict: Try not to get your hopes up too much, try not to get your hopes up too much, try not to get your hopes up too much.
And Felix
I can't leave him out, can I? Felix went from curiosity to object of disdain to most likable Oriole over the course of the season. This kid is awesome.
| Felix Pie |
G |
AB |
H |
2B |
HR |
R |
RBI |
BB |
K |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| James '09 projections |
143 |
498 |
138 |
26 |
12 |
70 |
59 |
33 |
94 |
.277 |
.320 |
.407 |
.727 |
| Pie '09 stats |
101 |
252 |
67 |
10 |
9 |
38 |
29 |
24 |
58 |
.266 |
.326 |
.437 |
.763 |
| James '10 projections |
143 |
345 |
94 |
18 |
11 |
53 |
42 |
27 |
71 |
.272 |
.325 |
.443 |
.769 |
James predicts that Felix will be a little better than he was in 2009. I don't know if that's true. I don't know what to believe. I know I like this kid way more than I probably should, and once I get an emotional attachment it's hard for me to be rational (see Scott, Luke). But those of us who watched Felix Pie in 2009 know that he's was like two different baseball players. If you divide his games right down the middle (so it doesn't look like I'm cherry picking), here is what you get:
First Half: 50 G, 114 PA, 3 2B, 2 HR, 10 BB, 25 K, .235/.304/.363
Second Half: 51 G, 167 PA, 7 2B, 7 HR, 14 BB, 33 K, .287/.341/.487
I know, I know. That's not enough to tell what he'll be in 2010. I agree. But his improvement was so remarkable. We saw it with our own eyes . Who knows what will happen to him, but if he can hit like that over a whole season then he can't sit on the bench. He can't. If he can hit like that over a whole season, you have to find a place he can play every day, even if it's (sniff) on another team.
I love our outfield. Here's a quick side-by-side of the OFs in the O's Division.
| Orioles |
Blue Jays |
Rays |
Red Sox |
Yankees |
| Nick Markakis |
Jose Bautista |
Matt Joyce |
J.D. Drew |
Nick Swisher |
| Adam Jones |
Vernon Wells |
B.J. Upton |
Jacoby Ellsbury |
Brett Gardner |
| Nolan Reimold |
Travis Snider |
Carl Crawford |
Jason Bay |
Matt Holliday |
Obviously Holliday is the best player on the board, but taking the outfields as a group? It's close, but I'll take the O's.
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Comments
Like Josh Bell’s projection, Reimold’s projection is off da hook. 29 HRs?! I think it’s too optimistic but I’ll be happy if he reaches it.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
by birdman on Nov 5, 2009 6:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I really, really hope we keep Pie and play him all year.
I don’t see anything wrong with keeping a good fourth outfielder on the roster. He can pinch-run, be a defensive sub, be part of a double-switch (say, pinch-hitting for Izzy late in a game they’re losing), fill in for injuries, and just be awesome in general. The guy worked his butt off this season and really improved, and I’d love to see what he can do with 100+ games in 2010. I love that kind of story (and I’m only slightly biased by having been at the game where he hit for the cycle).
I was going to suggest a left field platoon, but apparently Reimold actually hits righties better than lefties by a small margin (yeah, I know, relatively small sample size and all that). I then looked up Adam Jones to see what a platoon there would be like, and he hits righties a lot better than lefties. This would explain why the team sucks against lefties.
Speaking of Nolan, did anyone else notice how well he hit in Sept./Oct.? He was only in 16 games, but: .364 AVG / .392 OBP / .614 SLG / 1.006 OPS. I knew he broke out of a second-half slump, but wow.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
by Vuff on Nov 5, 2009 7:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we cant find any decent offensive options this season
then i’d be for using Pie to spell Nolan and Adam for a day or 2 each week. Letting Nolan and Adam each DH a day or 2 each week would definitely keep them fresh and cut down on risk of injury, while solving the DH problem (if Luke does indeed take over 1st) and getting Pie time in the field. Of course, we’d have to see if Adam and Nolan are effective in that role, but it’d be a best of all words scenario til something better comes up.
by daveh873 on Nov 5, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
I too really like Pie. I think he needs to be in LF for defense (or center) and I think Reimold should move to first or DH.
Again, thanks for posting.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Nov 5, 2009 8:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thx, Stace, v. interesting/revealing. The possibilities for this OF's total value exceeding that of any other in the division
by a factor of 1.2-1.5 or so (no joke) is enough to send the salivary glands into overtime. That said, I’d still give Pie, much as I love him, for a dream closer. And you would too. Look into your heart. No, deeper. There, under the left ventricle. See?
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Nov 6, 2009 3:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Keep Pie
And what dream closer would that be?
I’m not sold on him as a regular starting OF yet, but I’m happy with him as a 4th.
Yes…we could legitimately have the best OF in the East next year.
by silverstadium on Nov 6, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Left field
should be interesting to watch. We all want to see Nolan and Felix play. I am all for trying Reimold at first, but that is making the assumption that Brandon Snyder has no place on this team.
Maybe we could play Felix in LF, Reimold at DH, Snyder at 1B, and trade Luke seeing as how the only thing he brings to the table is power. I don’t know, this is why they pay you, Andy. You figure it out!
by sickuvitall on Nov 6, 2009 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I count correctly
using Runs Created (discounting stolen bases, since Bill James doesn’t have them here), and Stacey’s Matt Holliday/Jim Thome idea (why not?), I count the total offenses like so:
Baltimore 758.27 runs
Toronto 682.23 runs
New York 883.24 runs
Boston 841.21 runs
Tampa Bay 691.77 runs
Granted, these are a) based on James’ projections which I am somewhat suspect of, b) void of running data, which should shave some runs off the Orioles (though perhaps without Mora, the stolen base rate will go up) and give a relative ton of runs to the Rays, Sox, and Yankees, and c) without backups and many have only half year estimates for guys like ZAUN and Bell.
Still, this is an improvement over last year’s actual total (741)…but not by much. The Orioles’ offense remains middle of the pack. I blame Izturis and the lack of a first baseman (the two spots where the O’s are at a distinct disadvantage offensively).
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just realized
I forgot Pie, who brings the O’s up to about 808 runs, before you add in the bench and Wigginton. I’ll take that – that’s a surprisingly good offense considering Izzy’s wasted spot in the lineup. But again, I think some of these are erring on the side of extravagant…
And about the run game…
The Orioles had 67.3% (76 of 113) steal rate, which is really bad and cost them runs, in 2009. Mora was just 3 for 6, so he wasn’t exactly the problem. Here are the guys who cost the Orioles:
Adam Jones (10 for 14)
Ty Wigginton (why the fuck are you running ever – 1 for 3?)
Melvin Mora (3 for 6)
Robert Andino (3 for 6)
Aubrey Huff (see Wigginton, except Huff was 0 for 6, which is just inexcusable)
Felix Pie (surprisingly just 1 for 4)
So, we can get rid of Mora and his two fat teammates and come to a team total of 72 for 98, which is almost palatable at 73.5% success. Of course, one also hopes that the other baserunning gaffes are gone forever…and that is no sure thing, is it?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As for Huff
Pretty much all of those were failed hit and runs. I mean, still “caught stealing” but interesting to note. I don’t recall Wiggy but he could have been on the bad end of a hit and run as well since Trembley loves to get the fat guys moving.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still can't believe Pie only had 1 stolen base
And I was actually at that game. No wonder he was so excited.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that's something he works on this off-season.
There are more important things for him to focus on, certainly, but with his speed, he really should be more of a threat that way than he currently is.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
by Vuff on Nov 6, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember at one game I was at this summer
Huff was on second and inexplicably started running to third… as soon as he took off I screamed “Noooooooooo!” Argh, I can still picture him running, so slowly it looked like slow-motion.
by O Nina on Nov 6, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I may have been at that same game...
cause I remember turning to my friend and saying quite loudly that there is no freakin’ way Huff should be running ever…it got a chuckle from a few Oriole fans around me….
by NewYorkOriole on Nov 6, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Adam.
Didn’t he get called out on steal attempts where he was actually safe twice in the same week? I remember being really pissed after the second time it happened.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
by Vuff on Nov 6, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was it Jones
who got tagged out by Pedroia when Pedroia was holding the ball in his bare hand? I don’t know why, but that one play got lodged in my memory as the gold standard of 2009 umpiring.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
I remember that one; it was terrible… not sure who it was, though.
Though, does anyone remember when Wieters did basically the same thing? He tagged a guy with his empty glove and the ball clearly in his other hand on a rundown between third and home, and the out call was made. I was kinda worried at the time that the other team would appeal it or something, but nothing came of it; I don’t think the O’s announcers even noticed.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
by Vuff on Nov 6, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fairly certain that was Pie
"I would approve signing a pitcher that ate kitten tacos if he won 20 games a year." -BPinOK
by duck on Nov 6, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Runs created
I included them from the get go but couldn’t find them for all of the ‘09 projections (which I got from the web) so I ended up cutting them out. Here’s what James has to say:
Robert Andino: 17 RC (77 G)
Michael Aubrey: 26 RC (68 games projected)
Josh Bell: 58 RC (91 G projected)
Cesar Izturis: 37 RC, (126 G)
Adam Jones: 88 RC (154 G)
Nick Markakis: 113 RC (161 G)
Felix Pie: 49 RC (143 G)
Nolan Reimold: 105 RC (152 G)
Brian Roberts: 98 RC (159 G)
Luke Scott: 76 RC (142 G)
Matt Wieters: 101 RC (148 G)
Ty Wigginton 58 RC (122 G)
Jim Thome 80 RC (132 G)
That’s a total of 906 for all O’s projected by James (minus Melvin Mora, plus Jim Thome)
I can add the rest of the AL East in a bit if you like.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees
Cabrera 65 (144 G)
Cano 104 (161 G)
Cervelli: 20 (58 G)
Gardner 49 (104 G)
Hairston 37 (109 G)
Hinske 22 (60 G)
Austin Jackson 42 (97 G)
Jeter 108 (156 G)
Matsui 87 (139 G)
Molina 13 (67 G)
Nady 66 (124 G) (I forgot he even existed)
Ramiro Pena 11 (56 G)
Posada 72 (116 G)
A-Rod 117 (145 G)
Swisher 85 (150 G)
Teixeira 129 (156 G)
Holliday: 123 (155 G)
Total: 1150
That’s 16 players while the O’s only got 13 projected. Not sure the best way to break it out.
And I didn’t include him, but:
Johnny Damon: 87 (149 G)
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
looking at these totals makes this whole projection system look RIDICULOUS. There’s no way the Yankees are coming anywhere near scoring 1100 runs next year, even with Holliday. That’s just insane.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But this is where my ignorance comes in.
He has Posada playing 116 G, Molina 67, and Cervelli 58. That’s 241 games at catcher. Am I correct to assume those count as whole games? If so you have to shave off 79 games. If you look at the 2009 roster, the Yankee catchers appeared in 199 games but since a number of those appearances were defensive replacements/substitutions so I can’t imagine they’d count towards a projection system.
9 batters X 162 games = 1458 games. That Yankees list includes 1841 games. Like James says, he doesn’t project IF they will play, just how they will play if they do play.
We could look at it this way:
C Posada 116 G, 72 RC
1B Teixeira: 156 G, 129 RC
2B Cano: 161 G, 104 RC
SS Jeter: 156 G, 108 RC
3B Rodriguez: 145 G, 117 RC
LF Holliday: 155 G, 123 RC
CF Gardner: 104 G, 49 RC
RF Swisher 150 G, 85 RC
DH Matsui: 139 G, 87 RC
Bench:
C Cervelli: 46 G, 16 RC
2B/SS/3B Hairston: 24 G, 8 RC
1B/OF: Cabrera: 83 G, 37 RC (Since Swisher would fill in at 1B I included these together)
That total is: 937
It’s hardly scientific, but much more realistic. For reference the Yankees scored 915 runs in 2009. That offense was such a beast that it still makes 937 seem kinda high, but at least it’s in the neighborhood.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume
that James is just taking it player by player, and saying for example “Cervelli has a ton of possible playing times in 2010, but I can see him on average getting into 46 games as the Yankees backup” and playing with the numbers in a context vacuum.
All the same, I find many of these projections to be a little liberal. IIRC, James’ projections aren’t nearly as accurate as CHONE or ZiPS (but I honestly couldn’t tell you why or how or really anything about any of these systems)…still, seeing as he works for the rival Red Sox, it’s good to know that the AL East expects Baltimore to have an above average offense.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew @ TLC on Nov 6, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I don't really put much stock into them at all
It’s just something fun to talk about when there’s no baseball.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
The James projections are known as being the most optimistic of the publicly available player projections. They’re fun to toss around, though.
by silverstadium on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s really hard to tell exactly what the James-branded projections do. Unless something’s changed in the last couple of years, he doesn’t actually have anything to do with it. Using James as a brand was a pretty standard practice for STATS in the old days – they paid him to use his name on their various handbooks, which he had little to do with.
James projections tend to be the most optimistic by far. When I last examined them, they were the most optimistic when grouped with ZiPS, CHONE and PECOTA far more often than the other 3 put together. In past years, it wasn’t uncommon for more than 2/3 of the previous year’s starters at a position being projected to be above average.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Nov 6, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you do the same for the O's
C Wieters: 148 G, 101 RC
1B Scott: 142 G, 76 RC
2B Roberts: 159 G, 98 RC
SS Izturis: 126 G, 37 RC
3B Bell: 91 G, 58 RC
LF Reimold: 152 G, 105 RC
CF Jones: 154 G, 88 RC
RF Markakis: 161 G, 113 RC
DH Thome: 132 G, 80 RC
Bench
C Moeller 14 G,
1B Aubrey: 20 G, 8 RC
2B/SS Andino: 39 G, 8 RC
3B Wiggy: 71 G, 34 RC
OF/DH Pie: 49 G, 17 RC
Total: 823 w/o Moeller.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
by Stacey on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

















