Report: O's sign LHP Mike Gonzalez and 3B Garrett Atkins
by Stacey on Dec 16, 2009 8:48 PM EST
in News & Rumors
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PrintFrom The Baltimore Sun:
Looking to solidify the back end of their bullpen, the Orioles are nearing an agreement on a two-year deal with free agent left-handed reliever Mike Gonzalez, according to industry sources.
Terms of the contract are not known at this point, but Gonzalez -- who spent last season with the Atlanta Braves -- will have to pass a physical before the deal is complete. He's scheduled to take a physical in Baltimore within the next couple of days. The signing of Gonzalez, who is a Type A free agent, will cost the Orioles their second-round pick in the 2010 Draft.
Mike Gonzalez has been are reliable reliever for pretty much his entire career, though he's spent it completely in the National League East. He'll be 32 years old in 2010 and I'm guessing will serve as the O's closer. I like him in the Orioles bullpen although I'm not crazy about giving up a second round draft pick for a reliever.
More details will be posted as they arrive. In the meantime, welcome to Birdland, Mike Gonzalez! Check out his career stats below the jump.
Update; 9:12 p.m.: Tim Brown from Yahoo! is reporting that the deal is for 2 years, $12M with incentives that could make it as high as $16M. Um, wow. Overpayment alert.
Update, 10:49 p.m.: Andy MacPhail doesn't waste any time! Now the Sun is reporting that the O's have also signed 3B Garrett Atkins to a 1 year deal (terms still unknown)
The Orioles are pursuing several third baseman but it appears that Garrett Atkins, who was recently non-tendered by the Colorado Rockies, has become one of their top targets. Atkins, 30, hit just .226 with nine homers and 48 RBIs for the Rockies last season, but he averaged 25 homers and 110 RBIs the previous three seasons.
The good news is Atkins won't cost a draft pick and he'll be easy to push aside if and when Josh Bell is ready. He'll be 30 years old in 2010 and has spent his entire career with the Rockies. Since he is from Colorado, let's go ahead and check his home and away splits. Not really very confidence inspiring. Full stats below the jump.
Welcome to Birdland, Garrett Atkins!
Year Age Tm Lg W L ERA G GF SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO ERA+ WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB 2003 25 PIT NL 0 1 7.56 16 2 0 8.1 7 7 7 4 6 0 6 58 1.560 7.6 4.3 6.5 6.5 1.00 2004 26 PIT NL 3 1 1.25 47 12 1 43.1 32 7 6 2 6 0 55 346 0.877 6.6 0.4 1.2 11.4 9.17 2005 27 PIT NL 1 3 2.70 51 15 3 50.0 35 15 15 2 31 2 58 157 1.320 6.3 0.4 5.6 10.4 1.87 2006 28 PIT NL 3 4 2.17 54 47 24 54.0 42 13 13 1 31 2 64 205 1.352 7.0 0.2 5.2 10.7 2.06 2007 29 ATL NL 2 0 1.59 18 5 2 17.0 15 3 3 0 8 0 13 274 1.353 7.9 0.0 4.2 6.9 1.63 2008 30 ATL NL 0 3 4.28 36 29 14 33.2 26 21 16 6 14 3 44 98 1.188 7.0 1.6 3.7 11.8 3.14 2009 31 ATL NL 5 4 2.42 80 29 10 74.1 56 28 20 7 33 8 90 170 1.197 6.8 0.8 4.0 10.9 2.73 7 Seasons 14 16 2.57 302 139 54 280.2 213 94 80 22 129 15 330 166 1.219 6.8 0.7 4.1 10.6 2.56
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/16/2009.
Year Age Tm G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB 2003 23 COL 25 73 69 6 11 2 0 0 4 3 14 .159 .205 .188 .394 -2 13 2004 24 COL 15 33 28 3 10 2 0 1 8 4 3 .357 .424 .536 .960 135 15 2005 25 COL 138 573 519 62 149 31 1 13 89 45 72 .287 .347 .426 .773 93 221 2006 26 COL 157 695 602 117 198 48 1 29 120 79 76 .329 .409 .556 .965 136 335 2007 27 COL 157 684 605 83 182 35 1 25 111 67 96 .301 .367 .486 .853 113 294 2008 28 COL 155 664 611 86 175 32 3 21 99 40 100 .286 .328 .452 .780 96 276 2009 29 COL 126 399 354 37 80 12 1 9 48 41 58 .226 .308 .342 .650 66 121 7 Seasons 773 3121 2788 394 805 162 7 98 479 279 419 .289 .354 .457 .811 102 1275
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 12/16/2009.
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Comments
He's got the really odd set position, right?
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
Yes, bends down twice
Very weird
Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums
by Jordan Tuwiner on Dec 16, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwh28tyryPI
Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums
by Jordan Tuwiner on Dec 16, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
what the hell is that
chuck knoblauch esque..
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
by swilhelmross on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
God damn it
Two years of a relief pitcher for a rebuilding team is worth our second round pick?
Really not liking this offseason so far.
Which we couldn't do with a non-Type A?
That’s also a lot of faith in the health of a pitcher who didn’t throw more than 35 innings in two of the last three seasons due to injury.
What non-Type A would be as solid?
Capps is fine, not nearly as good as Gonzalez has been.
Kevin Gregg? Mike MacDougal? Fernando Rodney?
I think, despite the two-year deal being a gamble unless he puts up solid numbers and can be flipped like Flat Breezy, this is a great signing. Andy wanted a closer, with experience, to help anchor the pitching staff and I think he’s done that.
Who cares?
Yes, none of the people you mentioned are as good. What difference does it make?
The question is whether having one of those people and one of the 40 best amateur players in America is better than having Gonzalez. I think it is obvious which of those two options is better. I also, honestly, don’t care what Andy wanted. I care about what he should want.
I'm sure that what he wants is Rivera closing games
And CC at the top of the rotation, but we live in a place called reality.
It is ridiculously far from a guarantee
that if you pick in the top ten of the second round you’ll get one of the forty best players in America. The MLB draft is about as unscientific a thing as there is in sports.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
You'll get one of the 40 best amateurs
That doesn’t translate to one of the forty best in the majors.
The draft is a $100m+ a year industry, and generates billions in profits. It isn’t simply a crapshoot.
PS
And I’ll point out again, that while none of those guys is as good, all are more likely to be healthy than Gonzalez.
You are aware of Os history with signing pitchers over the last 10 years, right?
That they go through some of the most rigorous testing of any team in the game and haven’t signed a pitcher, aside for Simon last season, that has been been a health risk.
The whole point of this was to improve the team and Gonzalez improves the team. Whether you want to use your magic predicting ball or not, there’s no way to say if he’ll be healthy and a stud or fall apart.
There’s never a sure fire anything. Be happy MacPhail did something to resolve problems on this team, whether it be to our pleasure or not. He’s done more this offseason then the Rays.
They lost a second baseman and got a closer...
We got Millwood to mentor a young staff and Gonzalez, a closer.
I’d give a slight advantage to the Orioles, even though I had forgotten the Iwamura deal.
Not to get pissy with you
But I really loathe the “mentoring” thing. I think it is crap to begin with, and to the extent they need a mentor, we have a professional one called a pitching coach. And there is no evidence that Millwood’s mentoring did any good for Texas’ starters over the last four years.
We got a league average starter with one year on his contract and a closer for two years. Maybe Gonzalez is around when we’re contending; Millwood certainly won’t be.
The Rangers pitching staff took a huge step forward last season
I don’t know how mentors work in baseball but if it’s anything like they are in real life business, they’re invaluable.
Sure there’s a pitching coach, but he needs to be in charge of everyone on the staff and can’t sit down and chat with a guy any time they have a question. I think it makes perfect sense to have someone to take some of the weight off the pitching coach. Especially since Millwood will probably become one after he retires.
They didn't especially
Millwood had a very lucky season, which has already been detailed here quite a bit. The same is true of Scott Feldman. The rest of the improvement was not from pitchers getting better, but from having better, younger pitchers throwing more innings.
He’s not Dave Duncan. He’s not even Mazzone, and we all remember how great that turned out.
yes
the whole staff just got lucky. great point.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
nah
the whole staff had the defense behind them go from -51.7 UZR in 2008 to 32.5 UZR in 2009. Elvis Andrus and Nelson Cruz are the main culprits here
i was being very, very sarcastic
sure that had something to do with, but good team defense was NOT the only reason the rangers pitching got better.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
You may hate advanced metrics
But they don’t lie. Feldman and Millwood’s explosion in strand rate is real. So is the effect of adding another 60 innings of Tommy Hunter and great seasons from O’Day and Neftali Feliz, as well as CJ Wilson going from an ERA of over 6 to one below three.
Your sarcasm is fine, but it would really rock if one of these days you brought a fact to the party.
by James F on Dec 16, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
feliz didn’t pitch that much. he was in AAA most of the year iirc
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
yes cuz getting great seasons from the pitchers was all luck
you can go shove it. i didnt say that defense DIDNT help, i just said it wasnt the ONLY reason.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Why don't we each agree to leave the other alone
Before we go any further down the rabbit hole of online insults?
And for my part, I apologize. To you, and to everyone.
it does add a little spice
although its been distracting me from studying “learning and behavior”
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I keep forgetting about the time difference
Although, that doesn’t stop the redfaces from yelling on the trains.
I'm confused
So, because we have a difference of opinion opens your drunk fingers up to a barrage of annoyance?
In business
A mentor has actual control over the outcome of your work. They go over deliverables (reports, presentations, spreadsheets, etc) with you before they are finalized. They give you advice on career paths, development, etc. Basebally is not like that. The most a pitching mentor can do is play around with grips in the outfield and give you “don’t worry about it man – you should have seen me my rookie year” talks when you get shelled. He’s not out there on the mound with you, telling you what pitch to throw next, how to adjust mid-inning, etc. It’s just really not that comparable.
That's what you took away from that?
I already fucking said I was drunk. Congratulations on finding the one typo in the paragraph I wrote.
I'm very chill.
Just don’t get why dude has to make a big deal out of an obvious typo when the paragraph as a whole makes perfect sense and I already said I was drunk. Frankly, I thought the structure and logic of the paragraph was impressive considering…
If he wants to respond and argue my points, then fine, but to just pull out a stupid typo? Fuck off already.
Basebally
I didn’t want to comment on the rest of what you said because I don’t have conversations with people who are drunk.
The typo was just funny and I’m probably going to reuse it.
don't be made because you thought mentors in business were similar to mentors in baseball
But enjoy “basebally” – I’m sure that’s got some real legs…
"don't be made" might have more legs
The concept of mentor, I assumed, would be universal. You’re right.
Like I explained - despite my typos
It’s very much not universal. Business and sports…not really the same thing at all.
Missed the title?
I was suggesting that comics, while a business, is also an art.
Baseball, while a business, is also a sport. There has to be some kind of overlap. The world isn’t black and white. I’m sure that mentors in baseball have a similar, not identical, role as they do in comics and other businesses.
But it's completely different
Like business comics is the sort of thing where a mentor can help you actually finish your product. Baseball is not. Nobody else is out there with you for your AB or your pitching outings.
My mentor doesn't help me finish my product
He puts me in touch with people and we sit down and talk story stuff and it’s not handholding.
Did you draw your avatar?
(I don’t know anything about comics so if that’s some famous comic character, I’d have no idea.)
No, the avatar is Dr Orpheus from the show Venture Bros
I can’t draw worth a damn. Just the writing.
one of the all-time classic CC exchanges, this
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
well said Dr Orpheus
solid relievers are hard to come by these days
by whereswieters on Dec 16, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
meh
By the time that pick comes up for us, and by that time that hypothetical pick makes it to the majors, we are a winning ball club. Anyway, we can always trade him for a needed position.
"Chicks who dig home runs aren’t the ones who appeal to me, I think there’s sexiness in infield hits because they require technique. I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out."-Ichiro
by WestcoastO'sFan on Dec 16, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
meh
We could always trade whoever we pick in a year for a needed position when we’re contending.
Playing this down isn’t something I’m going to do. This is the third pick in the second round for a reliever with problems staying healthy – a silly luxury the Orioles don’t need.
You can get more overslotters now
Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums
by Jordan Tuwiner on Dec 16, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
We always could
I’ll make this argument again and again, and in more detail when the draft is closer, but there is no practical amount of money that could be spent on the draft that wouldn’t be smartly spent on the draft.
that's not how you spell "kiko calero!!"
Depending on the money, though it looks like a pretty solid deal; the NL East isn’t exactly a division of bad offenses, Mets excluded
looks like 2/12
with incentives to take it to 16 mil total value, according to Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports
ah that good ol’ Baltimore Relief Pitcher Premium
Looking at the bright side
Gonzalez has posted an ERA+ of over 150 in every season where he’s made 20+ appearances. So at least he’s actually good at baseball.
sure he's very good, but #2 draft picks are valuable.
This only makes sense if the Orioles also did something awesome like sign Adrian Beltre.
that 2.73 K/BB is pretty nutty too, and I think it’s worth noting that though he’s been hurt two of the past three years, the one year he wasn’t hurt was last season; maybe he’s past it. no harm hoping, especially since the deal is done
And he wasnt just healthy
He was a horse. 80 appearences!!
Follow me on twitter @orioleprospects and discuss the Orioles' prospects in my forums
by Jordan Tuwiner on Dec 16, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
In what world...
…is 80 appearances by a 32 year old pitcher after two injury shortened seasons right before we sign him a good thing?
reading into it
it looks like a lot of those games were lost due to Tommy John surgery, and honestly, in 2009, i’m not too worried about guys coming back from Tommy John
He had a previous elbow injury in 2006
I’m not worried in 2009 about pitchers not recovering from Tommy John back to their previous quality. But the best indicator of future injuries is past injuries. He has an unusual delivery and it has resulted in two arm injuries. That’s a risk.
This is horseshit
There are just no words to describe how angry this makes me at the Orioles.
This is such a…a… Jim Duquette, Mike Flanagan, Syd Thrift level of stupid move.
God damn it.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew_G on Dec 16, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well gosh
we’re in the hardest fucking division in baseball. Now let’s fucking tie our hands behind our backs by giving away draft picks so we can make a closer one of our higher paid players.
Oh, yeah, Mike Gonzalez is definitely gonna to change everything – suddenly we’re definitely favorites for 4th place and a 77 win season. Hoo-fucking-ray.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Right there with you
But, like I pointed out, the difference between this signing and the Flanagan ones is that Gonzalez, unlike Baez or Walker, is genuinely good at pitching.
Which is a small consolation.
More than anything
it’s like you said above – it’s the philosophy of the warehouse. What exactly are they trying to accomplish with crap like this? Shit, Mike Gonzalez could be making more money than Nick Markakis in 2010.
It’s not that Gonzo is a bad pitcher. That’s not it. As far as closers go, he was my third choice (behind anyone we already had and Calero). It’s the vast, vast, vast overpayment, and what that says about Andy MacPhail as a negotiator in a free agent market. And I don’t like what I’m seeing.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I'm more disturbed, honestly...
…by the lack of proper regard for the value of the pick than I am about the money, but you make an excellent point on that score too.
I'll also point out
$12 to 16 million is nearly all of what it is supposed to cost for some team to get SEVEN YEARS of Alrodis Chapman.
Which pitcher do you think would be more likely to eventually go to the playoffs with the O’s?
That's not what I heard about Chapman
I’ll have to dig around but I’m sure I heard it was a ton more than that.
No worries
I could totally have missed something, and I adamantly refuse to join twitter so if there was something there I definitely missed it.
Twitter has been amazing this offseason for hot stove
But don’t worry, I report anything good here :)
Much appreciated
I just can’t rationalize spending any more time thinking about this stuff than I already do. I’m spending too much time following the minors as it is.
Seeing the hot stove rumors on twitter would probably just suck the last bits of life out of mine.
You don't have to post to enjoy Twitter
I joined after much foot-dragging, and now follow dozens of people. I’ve made 21 tweets in 4 months, and most of those were of the" @danawhite: Bring Back Big John McCarthy!" variety. It’s becoming the fastest way to receive news.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
sure
but in a vacuum — i’m less inclined to care about the money side of this because of how low payroll is right now and frankly, it’s not my money to worry about — gonzalez can pitch well enough to actually help the team win games. the question is whether he’s used in properly leveraged situations, which A Ha Ha Ha Ha Closers
If we keep saying
every time we are spending too much money on a player that “it’s okay, we have tons of cash”, sooner rather than later we’ll be right back on Jay Gibbons-Melvin Mora-Danys Baez Boulevard waiting to get out from under some bad, crippling contract.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew_G on Dec 16, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but it’s a two year deal for a player who is actually good at his job, consistently, across his career. i would have preferred calero, capps, or pena instead, but this isn’t so bad a move that it should inspire Panic Mode.
I'm not panicing, I'm pissed off
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
It really is
I’m literally just sitting here shaking my head over and over.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
wait until april 1
you don’t know exactly what this is about. this might be about flipping JJ or Koji or someone else. wait and see. it’s december for god’s sake.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
its the same price as soriano
who gives a fuck. The Orioles now have some of the best pitching baseball
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 16, 2009 9:23 PM EST reply actions
The O's have SOME good pitching now
not nearly “some of the best pitching [in] baseball”. Don’t confuse potential for actual skill.
what...you mean matt albers doesnt have skillz?
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
surprisingly, i can generally avoid drunk eating
i eat constantly when im not drunk tho….
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I only really like beer
and I’m in pretty good “drinking shape” as it were, so it takes more than a few beers to get me drunk. So if one beer isn’t gonna do it, I might as well just cut out beer altogether.
see I don't like getting drunk per se
I mean, I like getting drunk, but at a slower pace that coincides with enjoying good beer. To enjoy getting smashed, I gotta get drunk on beer or not at all.
i switched from beer to maritinis....
…and the pounds, they started to drop.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I don't eat anything from the roller thingie at 7-11
but I love a greasy mcdonald’s double cheeserburger. My stomach hates it later, though.
ew yea
i wont eat anything from a 7-11 that isnt prepackaged. then again, i wont eat anything from a mcdonalds either unless i have to
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
I hardly ever do.
I’m saying, maybe 2 times a year I am just craving a mcdonalds double cheeseburger. And it’s so delicious while I eat it, but then the second I’m finished I’m like, “ew.”
My fast food joint of choice is chick fil a.
yea same
i eat there like 3-4 times a year. havent been to a mcdonalds or a burger king in several years.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
We have 1 chickfila in north Jersey
luckily its only 7 miles or so away, but it’s in a mall, so no drive through. Still gotta make a special trip when the craving hits though. Good stuff.
i know
their milkshakes are awesome although it was listed as one of the worst fast food items for your health
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
i think its one size only
but yea…those strawberry shakes are amazing. i might just go get one tomorrow now that you’ve made me hungry
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
haha yea i was gonna rephrase that to: any skills that actually help the team
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
actually, thats not entirely true
maybe making wiggy feel a bit lighter is a positive thing for team morale
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't we learn about paying this much for bullpen guys already?
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 16, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions
I thought Jamie Walker worked out perfectly
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
and as far as farm implements go, why not john deere?
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
by BPinOK on Dec 16, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i do not live on a farm
if i did, i’m sure i’d love john deere tho. deere and beer.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I do not live on a farm
but I LOVE my John Deere mower when it works. Sadly, it’s not working now.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Not a fan of this deal at all
He’s fine, and i’m glad to have him on the team, but not on that contract and most certainly not for an early 2nd round pick. I would have been much happier with Capps or even with Kam or Koji trying out the closers role.
On the plus side, the bullpen might not be completely horrible this year.
You know
now that it’s been a few minutes, I could really live with this deal if it didn’t include the loss of a draft pick. But it does, and that is so irritating.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew_G on Dec 16, 2009 9:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nope, now I'm swinging back over to just angry again
If Andy MacPhail really wanted to just go out and spend a bunch of money, why didn’t he just sign John Lackey?
Right now, we’ve lost:
Chris Ray, our second rounder, 15-17 million dollars in 2010 and 6-8 million dollars in 2011.
We have gained:
Kevin Millwood and Mike Gonzalez, who figure to add about 3 wins total in 2010. Lackey just signed a deal for 17 million for 5 years and figures to add more than 3 wins all by himself.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
by Andrew_G on Dec 16, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not trashing on the Millwood deal
I’m past that. Now I’m trashing on the overall offseason agenda, which to my mind makes no sense at the moment.
Again, though, I’m trying to reserve judgment until February 1, since we’re sort of in the middle of the movie.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
trust me
you’d be angrier two years from now when lackey still had three to go on that ridiculous deal
I thought money wasn't really an issue
because we have such a low payroll and whatever?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
well we'd have had to outbid the red sox
so i’d imagine he’d have cost us more than 17 per year. gotta love the yanks and red sox making it impossible for us to pick up any good FA pitching. maybe andy was afraid of getting outbid? (although in this case i wouldn’t have been unhappy if we were outbid)
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
on a two year deal, no
on a five year deal, yes. especially since lackey in five years, unlike gonzalez now, will not actually be a good pitcher
thats not entirely true
i agree its unlikely he’ll be that dominate at 37 years old, it doesnt mean he wont still be good
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not so much now
But the price for Markakis is starting to balloon. We dodged a bullet with AJ missing out on early arbitration, he’ll be expensive in a few years. So will Wieters when he hits arb in 2-3 years. A bad megacontract could turn us into a broke team.
What gets to me:
Pitchers taken in the 2009 draft with the third pick in the second round or later:
Brooks Pounders
Andrew Oliver
Garrett Gould
Bryan Berglund
Billy Bullock
Steve Matz
Alex Wilson
David Hale
Joe Kelly
Ben Tootle
Keyvius Sampson
Jason Stoffel
Chris Dwyer…
and that’s only through the fourth round. Some of those guys will be in the majors before Gonzalez’s deal ends.
I could live with that if it wasn’t such a ridiculous amount of money. Gonzalez is a good pitcher, and if he was cheap we’d have a chance at flipping him. But Noooooooooo
we can flip him anyway
if he’s pitching well enough. dodgers/phillies/giants if they’re in it/angels/braves if they’re in it would all be comfortable trading for that kind of contract if they think he gives them a chance at making the series
If you're defending the deal
before the contract is even signed with the idea that he’ll be traded for prospects, then I definitely have a big problem with the deal. Why don’t we just go sign someone we actually want to hold onto for a change?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
the deal's horseshit
but it is what it is, and hopefully the orioles manage to make the best of it moving forward. i’m sort of against signing a reliever ever that you “want to hang on to,” because with few exceptions (rivera, etc) relievers are just guys that aren’t good enough to start, and there’s a lot of guys like that already cost-controlled
Yes, exactly
so why pay THIS much for a reliever. I mean, that is going to make his trade value much lower, isn’t it?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
because macphail's priorities
are about as Old Time Baseball as you’d expect from the sixty-six year old son of two hall of famers, and those priorities say Closers Are Important, and that’s something we just have to live with. luckily, there’s a lot of other guys who think the same thing, and I think Gonzalez is good enough that if he pitches like he should, the contract isn’t toxic
You scared the shit out of me for a second
MacPhail is only 56. I was about to be very depressed if he was 66.
I know this is probably premature, but since we're giving up our 2nd round pick
Maybe the O’s will dump more money into the 1:3 pick? It seems like that’ll make them more likely to net one of the top prep arms, or Ranaudo from LSU… I mean, I’d prefer a college position player since we’re much thinner there, but that’s not where the strength of the draft is, at least not at 1:3.
I dunno, just speculating and trying not to hate the deal
it stands to reason
They’re still going to have money for the draft and one less guy to sign, so it would make sense.
I suspect it is more...
…their expectation that they will spend late in the draft than it is about spending more in the first round. If the O’s want Ranaudo or Taillon or Whitson at 1:3, I doubt they would not select them due to money.
The problem is that I suspect that the end of lots of late round signability picks is coming up fast. Already you saw in 2009 a lot more teams than ever before engaging in it. We’re approaching the point where every team will be doing it.
Could be worse
We could be the Pirates. Or the Nats.
That said, I am slowly moving toward the opinion that this winter is proving to be a cluster. We’re putting a lot of eggs and in the Josh Bell basket. If that kid isn’t the answer at 3B, and we STILL don’t have a answer at 1B, this team’s not better than 4th for a long time. And for the money we’re spending on Millwood and a reliever I admittedly never herd of before today, we could have made a run at Lackey.
I anxiously await Andy MacPhail’s acquisitions proving to me that I’m wrong.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
hopefully josh bell will be ready and we can move atkins to 1b
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Atkins at 1B? With his bat?
We’d be better off with Wiggy there, no?
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
well thats assuming his bat stays where it was last year
if we get the old garret atkins back, it makes it a little easier on the gut.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
and if josh bell and/or brandon snyder dont show
then we gotta have some option.
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Enlighten me
What else could have we done that was realistic? Please don’t say Crede or Blalock.
by LoveForTheGame13 on Dec 16, 2009 10:50 PM EST reply actions
there was always
the “not sign garrett atkins” option
resigning mora for another year or convincing miguel tejada to come back to play third would both seriously have been better moves
hell, aubrey huff is still a free agent
welllllllllllll
the orioles COULD try to acquire adrian gonzalez from the padres, but it would probably tillman, pie, and 2 of hernandez/berken/erbe/arrieta
i’d do that deal in a heartbeat but i’m not sure many others around here would
maybe
looking at the reports of what the red sox are offering, I’m not too sure it would, but even if the cost went a bit higher i’d still be fine with the deal I think — there’s a lot to like about gonzalez
speaking of which...
Gordon Edes is reporting (twittering) that the O’s made a strong run at A. Gonzalez during the winter meetings, so who knows, maybe that’s not entirely dead
don't want him
He’s only under contract for 2 years. You’re gonna give up all those prospects for two years? And don’t even say he’ll sign an extension because why would he? Would you?
If you pay him, he will stay
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
To elaborate
If you can get Gonzo at a price that’s not ridiculous (i.e. doesn’t Matusz or Tillman or Jones), I’d do it in a heartbeat. Throw a Brinks truck at him and he’d sign an extension or simply pay more than other bidders when the contract is done.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Imagine you're Adrian Gonzalez.
You’re 27 years old and have been traded to the Baltimore Orioles. You have a lifetime hitting line of .281/.362/.506 (OPS+ 134) at Petco Park. In two years you’ll be 29 years old and primed for a HUGEMONGOUS payday. Why do you sign with the last place O’s again?
Gonzalez won't be extended on the trade
They’ll hold on to him until the year before he hits FA before negotiating, probably, and at that point the O’s will either be in a position to actually re-sign him or trade him
Because in 2 years...
we won’t be in last place, silly. We’ll be defending AL East Champions. :)
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
if the money's right
hell yes i sign the extension, the orioles WITHOUT gonzalez have a lineup that projects to be pretty ridiculous in 2011/2012 and the pitching to back it up. it depends what they’d lose in the trade, of course
I would have been happier with an in-house option
Wigginton is horrible, but he’s here. Hell, see what would be the least Mora would take to come back. People playing in the NL West in Colorado dont generally get better moving to the AL East, even if it is in Camden. I mean, whatever. Hopefully its for half a season and thats that. Still, Atkins wasn’t someone I really ever wanted to call an Oriole.
If Atkins > Wigginton?
If he’s not appreciably better, why sign him if the plan is to call up Josh Bell? Either Atkins is the long-term answer or he’s fodder when Bell gets called up.
Well, hell, we can do that with Wiggy without signing another player.
This strikes me as a deal that offers a solution we already have to a problem that it doesn’t really solve.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
by duck on Dec 16, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I fully agree
the only thing I can think of is they already have Wigginton slotted in at 1st or they would have to find another utility guy if Wigginton was the everyday 3B, so they just signed another crap 3B so Wigs can stay where he is.
this
although is wigs or atkins better at first? if they are both gonna be in the lineup, it doesnt matter who hits better than who
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Atkins
So we replaced Melvin Mora with a guy that hits like Melvin Mora. Oh well, deal is prob way cheap. Maybe he can rebound a little. He can play both sides of the diamond, so that will help a bit i guess. Impactless signing in my eyes. But there is a teeny tiny bit of upside.
I dunno about that
I really think I would have rather seen Wigs over there. Lets hope Bell pulls a Kakes and breaks camp with the club because he just tears it up in ST.
"horrific" is a good place to start
“almost as bad as wigginton” is also a good description
-21.8 UZR at 3rd for his career
It's only -5 UZR/150, though.
He had one really bad defensive year (2007), and aside from that, he’s just been below-average.
Not saying I’m thrilled by any means, but Wiggy is much worse than that (-16.4 UZR/150).
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Those are 3B stats, by the way.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
My eyes are rolling so fucking far back in my head at this thread.
There’s a reason none of us actually run real, live baseball teams, you know…Atkins is probably a one year, cheap-ass deal, Gonzalez is a good reliever, what the fuck ever.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
But the goal MUST be this team making the playoffs and competing there.
I don’t want cheap-ass short-term fixes that rely on a kid in DOUBLE-FREAKIN’-A ball last year becoming our 3B for the next half decade or so.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Yeah, and I don't want to pay Adrian Beltre for 4 years, either
Letting that kid that’s at Triple A rot for that length of time.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
I do, Beltre is awesome. Josh Bell can wait. Why do we have to force every situation into a this prospect must pan out at this position or else…
It’s silly.
Any more ridiculous than the one
we just gave to a career set-up man?
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
If by that you mean
closer for the two teams he has previously played for…. well, yeah, Beltre’s contract would still be more ridiculous
beltre is okay
his salary demands are not
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
he's a good prospect
You have to give him a chance to show that he can do it. If there was some kick ass 3B on the market, then yeah, sign him. But there wasn’t. There was Chone Figgins and Adrian Beltre.
I am not wild about Garrett Atkins, but you gotta give the kid a a chance.
I'm all for giving Josh Bell a chance
I just don’t want our entire plan for the off-season and the next 2 years to depend on a kid who played AA last year working out by July of this year with few other viable options.
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Well, if we were going to sign a Type A free agent...
…we could have gone for Chone Figgins. Too late now, but I wager we might have considered it more if we knew the pick was going to go regardless.
I will point out that we have another prospect in the high minors who plays third in Brandon Waring if Bell fails, and the 2011 free agent class, and the trade market – it isn’t like we have nothing else but the hope of Bell for the next three seasons.
Why not?
I mean, sure, you have a great contract year issue. But four years @ $8m isn’t a ton of money or that many years. Figgins plays a lot of positions, speed players age well generally, and it isn’t a contract that can cripple any franchise that doesn’t call Florida home.
Wasn't our entire plan for last off-season on kid that played in AA last year?
And only a half-season at that?
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
No, it's not, really.
Look at their numbers and get back to me, they’re remarkably similar.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
buddha
and vishnu
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
YHVH
there aren’t any vowels in ancient hebrew…the a and e were added in at some point.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
They dont look that similar to me
Bell looks good, dont get me wrong, but he’s no where near the prospect Wieters was.
2 fucking years and 12 million fucking dollars???? what the motherfucking shit????/
Are you fucking kidding me?
FUCK!!!
ps I’m drunk, but that really doesn’t seem like a good contract for a fucking reliever.
When you're sober....
it still won’t seem like a good contract for a reliever
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
yesss
this is so much more fun when you’re intoxicated
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
very very true
but you make CC so fun when you’re drunk. its almost as good as being drunk myself
by twistedlogic on Dec 16, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
On a one-year deal...
…I’m fine with Atkins, as long as we’re paying him less than the Astros are paying Feliz. I think Crede is better, but I can see going for health above upside. I think Atkins will be better than Wiggy would be, and I don’t see Beltre making sense given Josh Bell.
Considering the size of the incentives reported in the Gonzalez contract
I imagine it will be similar – maybe something like 2 guaranteed and four in incentives.
But I haven’t seen anything.
Yeah
I can live with Atkins (who the fuck else would it have been, really?) but it all comes down to dollars.
Though I half expect to wake up tomorrow and find out that we paid him our 3-6 round draft picks and 15 million.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Anyone have any idea
why Atkins fell off the table last year? I mean, those are some drastic changes.
Not having Matt Holliday around anymore.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
I'm thinking he was depressed about it.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
by getxstoked on Dec 16, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Got out of shape in the offseason
Had a slow start and lost his job to Ian Stewart. If he hits the gym, there might still be some gas in the tank.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Get Brian Roberts or Adam Jones on the phone
and tell them to get ready for a new Arizona roommate this winter!
"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White
Hard to say now...
I can’t get too upset over the terms of one or two-year deals. Maybe it’s because the other team I follow closely is the Giants, and there the fans complain about giving Barry Zito 7 years and $126 million, and Aaron Rowand 5 years and $70 million, or something like that.
The draft pick is another story—but hey, if you’re going to be so bad you get a protected first-round pick, why not give up the second-round one? More seriously, it’s hard to say, but at some point you do have to concede that MacPhail might be right and we might be wrong. Maybe Gonzalez will save us from a few of the heartbreaking losses like the ones we had at the end of last season, and we can pull off another one of those Sherrill-Bell deals.
By the way, wasn’t 2010 supposed to be the transition year—the year we return to respectability before we contend in 2011? In that case, maybe having someone other than Jim Johnson closing won’t be so bad…
i was actually just joking about huff
but looking at his .263 BAbip from last year, i really wish we were giving this contract to him instead
Signing Huff is right out
I was speaking of Atkins. If he was cheap and his defense isn’t terrible, I’ll be content with this signing. If not…I’ll be more annoyed
I also wish Huff was coming back. With this deal, there's no way Huff is coming back.
Atkins’ OBP has been basically falling for six straight years.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
God, the OH is going retarded over that Edes tweet.
Especially the king of the dumbasses over there.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
Just stop complaining...
MacPhail is being aggressive, and we got two guys who have proven they can be decent. Sure, Atkins has been a flop the past year and a half, but who knows? Beltre sure didn’t hit double digits in home runs either last year. Be grateful for a solid young core and the fact that Dan Uggla won’t be wearing an O’s uniform. If all you have to worry about is a draft pick, I’d say MacPhail’s doing a pretty darn good job. A 64-win team deserves the slack to sign some guys, the Yanks and Sox have reserved the playoffs for the next three or four years anyways.
So what do the O's do from here?
I feel like the only move they might make is to sign Bedard/ Wang. And sign Hendrickson. If that counts as a move.
Bedard makes a lot of sense
Especially if he’s ready to go from the start of Spring Training. He’ll allow the kids someone to compete against. And, as many have said, he’ll probably get hurt half way through the year or Guthrie will combust and there’ll be a hole in the rotation again.
What in the ball fuck is going on?
I leave work, do a little grocery shopping, make some dinner (bacon garlic mashed potatoes), watch a little TV, I check twitter and the O’s have turned into some mutant psychotic thing. Atkins I kind of expected, dreadfully. Who the fuck is Mike Gonzalez? Why does he pitch like that? And Holliday?!? We have 7 left fielders!
AND we’re supposedly making a run for Adrian Gonzalez. I approve, conditionally, depending on the prospects. I expect Pie and Snyder to be offered, hopefully not too much talented pitching.
dinner (bacon garlic mashed potatoes)
was that a side, or a main? or was that all of dinner?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
It was for a work potluck for today
A crock pot is sitting on my desk, making the office smell like garlic and bacon. It was all I ate last night, after all of the tasting and spoon cleaning after I made it.
I thought about using bacon fat instead of butter, but I had to make a side pot for my vegetarian girl. Frying garlic in bacon grease? Mmmm.
by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
i feel like we have a lot of bacon discussions here
bacon is gross
by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tell that to Matt Albers
or Ty Wigginton. I have a hunch they’re on my side here.
by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
huh.
i wonder if that was past of the rationale behind the atkins signing
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
How awesome of a guy can Garrett Atkins be?
I’ve seen this a few times now, and I think it is a bit weird. But besides Clemens and Pettite to Houston, I’ve never heard of anything like this.
$12M is a far cry from $43M, but it’s the principle that kind of pisses me off. I’d hate to see the team lose out on somebody who could be good (Chapman) and a second round pick for why exactly. The Orioles history of signing relievers hasn’t been exactly sparkling. And plus the guy threw the most innings he ever has last year. And he’s had TJ surgery. Not like an injury risk or anything.
Librarians are hiding something
About Holliday
It seems like a strange fit for the Os, but it would be interesting if they moved Nolan to 1st. Reading these threads I feel like I’m in the wilderness here when I say I don’t want Wiggy anywhere near a starting lineup.
That being said, I luuuuuuv the signing of Atkins. He had a major drop off last year, but had put together a nice string of seasons prior to that. He has potential to be a great hitter for us and if he sucks, oh well, Bell was the long term plan anyway.
by brek on Dec 17, 2009 3:56 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Is it possible
that the Orioles brass sees something in Atkins’ batting stance that can be changed, and get him back to his 2007 form? If not, then we’d be better with Wiggy at third.
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Dec 17, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions
Has anyone read Keith Law's analysis?
I see that he likes Gonzalez better than the other alternatives at closer, but then the pay wall hits. Anyone want to summarize?
finally
the teams’s making some good moves, headed in the right direction. i can’t wait until the next acquisition, if they can get a real star to come to baltimore, we’ll be set. like i said, i can’t wait.
Tennessee Born Baltimore Raised
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