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Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

Thursday Bird Droppings

See the articles below concerning the two newest Orioles and the rumors about Matt Holliday. Stick right here for the rest of the news. 

PressBox: Guthrie Hopes He Can Erase Dismal Summer Memories
"There's much to be learned from this season," said Guthrie. "I think you become a better player and a better pitcher through adversity and learning from mistakes. So that will be something that I attempt to do, maximize what I can take from this season." -zknower

Mike Gonzalez Potentially an Oriole | FanGraphs Baseball
FanGraphs weighs in on the Gonzalez signing. Basically the same things that were said in the thread last night. Will he stay healthy? Do the O's even need to be spending money on a closer? $6M is too much? -Stacey

Statue to honor Brooks -- baltimoresun.com
Brooks Robinson is being honored with at statue created by the Baltimore Public Art Commission. Sounds great, except it gives me pause that it's being installed in the median between Pickles Pub and OPACY. Hopefully the drunks will be respectful. -Stacey

Orioles stadium details released | HeraldTribune.com
The Orioles won't be completely tearing down Ed Smith Stadium and won't change the basic design of the stadium. Picture included! -Stacey

FanFest to be held Jan 23rd
The past few years FanFest has been held at OPACY just before the season started, but they've gone back to the old setup this year at the Convention Center. Go meet all your favorite O's. Maybe Garrett Atkins will be there! -Stacey

Sidney Ponson named ESPN.com's worst pitcher of the 2000s
The judge-punching, DWI-getting, hungover-pitching Sidney Ponson has been named the worst starting pitcher of the decade. As the article says, his numbers weren't the worst, but when you look at the entire package it's hard to argue. -Stacey

Steroid user Bigbie makes Ball State Hall of Fame
Larry Bigbie is being honored....ok then. -Stacey

Done: Phils get Doc; Lee to Mariners
The biggest trade of the off season is complete. Here's what everyone got: Philly lands Roy Halladay (and Roy lands a 3 year extension) and prospects Phillippe Aumont, JC Ramirez, and Tyson Gillies. Seattle gets Cliff Lee for one year. Toronto gets prospects Kyle Drabek, Travis d'Arnaud, and Brett Wallace. Oakland gets prospect Michael Taylor. Got it? Need a diagram? -Stacey

You're as cuddly as a cactus, you're as charming as an eel, Open Thread!

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These are facts

I know people are going to spend the day talking about Atkins and Gonzalez so I wanted to get us started by saying I just saw the newest trailer for ‘Hot Tub Time Machine’ and it might be stupidest, most brilliant thing I’m longing to see. Make sure to watch the Red Band version for swearing and all the fun stuff this movie will be loaded with.

Holy hell, I want to see it right now.

Oh, and the Iron Man 2, Clash of the Titans, and Alice in Wonderland Teasers are up as well. They look okay.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 17, 2009 7:22 AM EST reply actions  

Iron Man 2: Trailer underwhelming, but I am still confident movie will be awesome.

Clash of the Titans: I actually liked the new Hulk, and even though part of the charm of the original Clash of the Titans was the stop-motion stuff (and a few gratuitous T&A scenes), I’ll definitely still see this remake. Hey, it looks fun and I like Sam Worthington.

Alice in Wonderland: Probably won’t see unless reviews are really strong. And even then, maybe not. I like Terry Gilliam weird a lot more than Tim Burton weird.

Hot Tub Time Machine: I’m one of the four people left in America that hasn’t seen The Hangover yet, so I don’t know if I’ll see this movie either… I just have a hard time paying full price for comedies, but sometimes I make exceptions (40 year old virgin).

Movies I’m really looking forward to:

Crazy Heart – I love Jeff Bridges, I love that type of music, and I love this sort of movie. It’s a win-win-win!

Youth in Revolt: Great book I read about ten years ago, trailers look hilarious.

Book of Eli: I like Denzel Washington, and I like post-apocalyptic stuff.

Kick-Ass: Never read the comic, but the premise sounds great. I’ll be there.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey now

Those scenes in Clash of the Titans were NOT gratuitous!

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

‘Kick-Ass’ was a pretty good comic and looks to be a solid movie.

I’ll agree on ‘Iron Man 2’, it looked all right, not great.

With ‘Alice in Wonderland’, I think Burton’s nutso lever was thrown. The look, if nothing else, is incredible.

‘Clash of the Titans’ will probably be a solid movie, and the end of that trailer with the Kraken…shit right in my pants.

I like seeing movies like ‘Hot Tub Time Machine’ with my wife, mostly at home. If it comes out here (Seoul) I’ll see it in theaters, because we haven’t been yet and are told you can preorder tickets and it’s like going to the opera or something, but if not we’ll just download or wait until we get back to the states.

I don’t know much about ‘Book of Eli’ save a poster I saw once and no nothing about ‘Crazy-Heart’. ‘Youth in Revolt’ should be all right. Michael Cera is great but I can’t wait to see him in ‘Scott Pilgrim’.

Has anyone heard anything about ‘Pirate Radio’? Really want to see that.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 17, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

No Hulu?

Aw man that sucks. What about websites like abc.com that have shows you can stream? A friend of mine is deploying to that part of the world in January and we were looking forward to discussing LOST via email after he watched it online.

As for upcoming movies, I am looking forward to Sherlock Holmes.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

me too, but gaurdedly

Sherlock Holmes as sex symbol? I don’t know if I like that. But we’ll see!

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Most of them won't work

It’s all megavideo watching for us.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 17, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

ninjavideo.net

Once you install the divx webplayer, it works so much better than megavideo and you dont have the annoying time limits. Plus you can have the web player download the file as well.

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Pirate Radio bombed

It got middling reviews and the trailers rang hollow for me.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

The original Clash of the Titans was brilliant!

Lucas, Spielberg, Bey, etc. They’re all technicians. Highly skilled technicians, but Ray Harryhousen is an artist.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 17, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

So psyched for Iron Man 2

Garry Shandling and Sam Rockwell look like they killed their parts.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 18, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions  

my projections for atkins

 if healthy and plays a full yr 32 hr 110 rbi 15 sb 30 dbls 8 trp

by chuckthefan on Dec 17, 2009 7:35 AM EST reply actions  

I'll be nice

That’s extremely optimistic.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Ha!

I sure hope you are right. 9 HR’s playing half his games in Coors field a year ago say you probably arent though.

by daveh873 on Dec 17, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

yes but

 i figure with the short wall and help from the scoreboard.

by chuckthefan on Dec 17, 2009 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

What short wall? What scoreboard?

He’s right handed. Are you talking about Fenway?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

from mlbtraderumors:

Hell id sign Holliday. Trade Scott, Markakis, and Roberts. Id put Andino at second, Pie in right. 1b would prob be someone like Gonzo from a trade.

Posted by: Ajstewart2 | December 17, 2009 at 12:43 AM

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 8:44 AM EST reply actions  

Probably not

most of those guys are too busy looking for threads to be f1rst on to do things like, ya know, watch sports.

by daveh873 on Dec 17, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Andino at second???

why not just have our pitchers play the field on their off-days too?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

omg tha soundz like a grt idea!

Whoever said that can’t possibly be serious. Can they?

"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.

by LenaO on Dec 17, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

GOOOOO MORNING!!!

So, who wants to tackle HealthCare today?

LOL…. KIDDING!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

Goo Morning?

Ew, sounds messy.

"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson

by Brotz13 on Dec 17, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Kill the Senate bill

The Senate bill is H. Clinton’s plan from last spring. That’s not what Dem voters in the primary or voters in the general voted for. Private mandate with no public option is just a gift to the health insurance industry.

/Stands down from his soapbox.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I WAS KIDDING!!!

If something ranks as higher than a 2.5 out of 10 on the serious scale, Im not discussing it today. LOL…. so back to Sidney Ponson

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I know you were

I just needed to get that out.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

but worry that if they don’t pass this they won’t be able to pass anything.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

"Nothing" would be better than the Senate Bill

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Better for who?

People that don’t have insurance? maybe. Dems trying to get re-elected? Probably not. Don’t you think?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, thanks for opening the door to let me rant on this one

1st of all, can someone tell me what the point is to Rahm Emanuel? I thought he was supposed to be the hatchet man. A cross between Atwater & Rove but without their redeeeming qualites. A Carville who didn’t quit & hit the yip-yap circuit 20 minutes after the election. Instead he gets rolled by a worthless pissant like Lieberman. You know what that makes Rahm, and by extention Obama look like? In the words of Keith Olbermann, “here kitty, kitty, kitty”.

And what is Lieberman thinking? He’s barely tolerated in his own state, hated by the Ds & the Rs see view him as ALL collaborators are viewed – as someone they’ll wait until last to kill. Unless he knows that all Reid will ever be capable of doing is crawling into a corner, curling up in a ball & whining “please don’t hurt me”. Or he knows that as of Jan. ‘13 he’s going to be openly whoring for the insurance firms instead of doing so while pretending to represent voters.

Eh, best to let the House kill it in conference & then start again in ’11 after Durbin or Schumer has replaced Reid & they get it through by reconciliation.

If not – Dean/Grayson ’12!

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 17, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that was an imitation

more than a reaction.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you expect.

Democratic politicians are pussys by definition.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

wow fuck off

Go declare war on a few more countries not even remotely related to terrorism. Maybe we can arrange for another surplus that you can squander.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

As in our current surplus....

STOP WW, WALK AWAY….. JUST STOP

Ok, Im done.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Recent history

Reagan ran up a debt bigger than everything from Washington to Carter combined.

Geroge the Smarter kinda-sorta attempted fiscal responsibilty, but the flying monkeys & snake handlers & voodoo people inside his own party damn near chased him up a tree & set fire to it for his efforts.

Bubba, along with help from Congressional Rs who had the fear of Perot in them actually got a pretty good handle on the budget.

Then Emperor Cheney & George the Lesser came along. Now there have been bloodthirsty leaders & stupid leaders before those 2, but going back to Alexander I don’t think ANY of them ever CUT taxes on those most able to pay while fighting 2 wars.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 17, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean

on the 10 months of attempted cleaning up of the mess? Nah no comment just yet, but the stock market certainly seems to approve and our banks aren’t near collapse. Let’s talk in 3 years.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Ill get back to you when the trillions start

flooding the market and drive our dollar into the ground, and the chinese start calling in their loans.

I know, Im about to get:

“I have nooo idea what you’re trying to say here…..” as you like to start every reply, but, sure go ahead….

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

only thing i’m going to add to this conversation

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

I know there are different schools of thought on deficits. I’m personally of the believe that as long as your spending the money that you borrow wisely (job creation, research and development of new technologies, meaningful healthcare reform that would save our society money down the road – not saying they’re doing that now) that deficits are just fine. If done well the increased tax revenues from increased economic production created from the spending (again if done well) will be plenty to bring the budget back under control. Not to mention the fact that if we can extricate ourselves eventually from these two wars then the budget will come rapidly back down to earth.

So, to just point blindly to the deficit and say we’re in trouble seems a little premature. If we just flail around and don’t do anything meaningful with the money you’re right it will be trouble. But if we just cut spending to cut the deficit the damage that could cause in terms of lengthening or worsening the recession could be much more damaging than using the spending to spur the economy and at the same time fix some problems (like the crumbling infrastructure, costly healthcare, and development of some green technology to replace yesterday’s manufacturing jobs/tax revenues that are gone for good).

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

“If we just flail around and don’t do anything meaningful with the money "

As in all the stimulus money thats sitting around?

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

PS....

At least most Americans are finally starting to see clearly and disagree with you. The polls aren’t lying. People are not happy with the spend spend spend and want some fiscal responsibilty now. A “trillion” is a big number….". Let me ask you, what % of the GDP do you think went to the Iraqi war annually?

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

And that’s fine with me – I’m pretty comfortable with “most americans” disagreeing with me on this. It’s a relatively complex economic topic that most people (including me) really don’t have much education in. Lots of people hear “debt”, “deficit”, “trillions”, and just start panicking without really understanding what it means.

When you ask what % of the GDP went to the way in Iraq are you asking based on the budget numbers that the Bush administration produced that hid half the costs associated with the war?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Its less than 1% by the way.

Which granted, is still a big number. But its not a foregone conclusion that Sadaam posed no threat to anyone. Its an opinion… I have my own opinions on it.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

So

the 1% figure is admittedly based on the (at best0 fudged Bush numbers?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure.

We can say 1.5% if you’d like to add all the demon possesed things Dick Cheney bought (sarcasm).

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

And

to be clear, the issue is not whether he posed a threat to anyone. If we went to war on that issue, we would have been too busy in Africa to even notice Sadaam…

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Im pretty sure we will strongly

disagree on every issue. Im not going to come out and say IM RIGHT and YOU’RE WRONG or YOU’RE RIGHT and IM WRONG… .Ill just say, I doubt either of us will be able to alter the other’s opinion on any of this. Ill try my best not to bring any of this stuff up, but if one side comes out and I feel my position is being mocked or poorly represented, Ill chime in.

Deal?

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude

I have no problems with you at all – you’re making a good argument and having a civil discussion. I’m actually enjoying this.

I just don’t like being called a retard and then being told I wasn’t called a retard.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

If you believe Rasmussen

and if you believe Rasmussen, you believe in the Tooth Fairy.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

last comment stacy, I promise

Obama doesn’t seem to be in any hurry to give back governmental powers that we created with the Patriot Act et al

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

True

and I’m disappointed in that, but I don’t think that has much to do with the big issues (economy, health care, climate change, etc). As long as he’s not using those powers to spy on us, torture our enemies, go to war with countries that are no threat to us I’m willing to live with it for a little while.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

But probably not the discontent and rage that you suffer from so I wouldnt worry about it too much.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Differences of opinion

aren’t always based in ignorance. Sometimes, people just see things differently. I’m as liberal as they get, and I think Harry Reid should piss up a rope, but it is possible to understand where fiscal conservatives derive from. Doesn’t mean I agree, just means I don’t doubt their intelligence just because they disagree with me. I do think they’re wrong, though, in many cases.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Better example

Someone like Evan Bayh is a genuine fiscal conservative. Reid’s just a coward.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Based on what's happening now

and what’s happened in the past (2006), it’s hard not to come to tim’s conclusion.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we put the kibosh on this

conversation please? I’m not trying to tell y’all what to talk about but damn. How many days in a row am I gonna have to read this shit?

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Welterweights?

Man, GSP has cleaned out that division in UFC….

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Have I?

Didn’t notice.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, I just wind 'em up

and let ‘em go. You’ll notice I’ve kept my distance from the actual discussions.

In other words, “Mom, it’s not my fault. HE’s the one who broke the vase. I just gave him the bat.”

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

c'mon now

you know how easily wound up the kids are

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Trust me, I know

Hallways at my school this week have been REAL fun to navigate…

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry.

I’ll stop.

Besides playing with O’sFan is sort of like teasing the special needs kid down the street when he’s off his meds – too easy.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

aw come on, dude

Like I said, I’m not telling y’all what to talk about, but can we keep the personal things like that out of it?

Discuss the issue, not the person! :-) That sounds like something my mom would say.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I was not saying O'sFan is retarded or anything.

It’s just easy to get him spun up. And all that time on a submarine really helped to develop my natural inclination to get people spun up to see where they went.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Get fucking serious.

There is absolutely no other way to interpret what you said but to assume that you were implying I was retarded. I’m fine with it, but fucking own it.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Please pay attention

I’ll attack your argument ferociously if I disagree, but I don’t go calling people retarded. That’s a line. Disagree with me all you want, but leave the offensive insults out of it.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

um, i’ve been the receiver of many condescending, patronizing, and smug remarks from you.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

Condescending, patronizing, and smug remarks ABOUT YOUR ARGUMENT. Not about you. I don’t know you or anything about you.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

well, you’ll often say something like, you obviously don’t know anything about X. I find that to be a smug remark about someone and their argument.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok that's fair

but don’t you think that’s a little different than comparing somebody to a mentally retarded person?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i don’t know… one’s a passive aggressive tactic (e.g., you obviously don’t anything about X is just a sugared way of saying you’re mentally retarded) whereas saying you’re mentally retarded is straight out aggressive. Lately, I’m becoming a believer in preferring straight out aggressive attacks over passive aggressive ones. The former cuts the BS out.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh sorry man but that's BS

Again with the passive agression charges. Saying “You don’t know anything about x” is saying exactly that – you don’t know anything about this topic. It’s incredibly direct and not passive agressive. Again maybe I shouldn’t be saying that because it’s not exactly nice, but I don’t see how it’s passive agressive or even remotely close to saying somebody is retarded. Me saying that you don’t know anything about how to throw a slider, for example, is not even close to an overall assessment of your intelligence or character. It’s saying that you don’t know anything about how to throw a slider.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Saying "You don’t know anything about x" is saying exactly that – you don’t know anything about this topic. It’s incredibly direct and not passive agressive.

OK, fine, then to answer your earlier question.

but don’t you think that’s a little different than comparing somebody to a mentally retarded person?

No, it’s not different.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok we'll just have to disagree.

To me, saying somebody doesn’t know anything about X means that they don’t know anything about X, but for all I know they could be an absolute genius.

Saying somebody is retarded is saying they’re retarded.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Besides playing with O’sFan is sort of like teasing the special needs kid down the street when he’s off his meds – too easy.

I’ll just say, 1) nobody was calling you mentally retarded. He said you were easy to bait as a retarded kid. 2) Why is it even necessary to be smug, patronizing, and condescending about people’s arguments?

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Again

I’m one of 3 people who immediately found that comment to be an inappropriate personal attack. The fact that you don’t concur is odd considering you’re complaining that my arguments are too hurtful or whatever immediately after saying you don’t think that comment crosses the line.

As far as your second point, maybe that’s a fair question and something I need to work on, but it’s still very different than attacking somebody personally.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m one of 3 people who immediately found that comment to be an inappropriate personal attack.

Oh, I was just using your rhetorical trick by making a distinction between the “argument” and the “person”. I didn’t find the original comment particularly friendly at all, either at the personal level or “argument” level.. But it’s nothing worse than what you do on a regular basis.

I guess what I’m saying is that if you call someone’s argument as “stupid”, you can say all you want that I’m just calling your argument as “stupid” not you personally, but people are going to feel as if it as a personal attack. Now I’m sure, you’ll say tough cookies. But, like I said earlier, I don’t why it’s necessary to make patronizing comments about people’s arguments in the first place.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I won't say tough cookies.

I don’t come around here to fuck with people or hurt anybody’s feelings. From my perspective attacking somebody’s argument and attacking their intelligence/character/personality are completely different, but if other people (like yourself) find that just as offensive I’ll be more careful.

I really tend to separate my argument from myself, so I assume others do as well.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

From my perspective attacking somebody’s argument and attacking their intelligence/character/personality are completely different,

Yes, and I’m saying that’s nothing more than a rhetorical trick. By attacking someone’s argument with “that’s stupid” IS ALSO an attack on their “intelligence” and “personality.” Just my two cents.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok – definitely don’t agree with that.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

a person’s argument IS a reflection of their intelligence.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

About that particular topic – not in general. Again. Saying somebody doesn’t know anything about throwing a slider means exactly that. It says nothing about their overall intelligence.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

About that particular topic – not in general.

Ah ha! Then it is an attack about their argument AND their intelligence, but their intelligence on just that one topic, but not in general. Fine, fine. And like I said before, but tim56 wasn’t saying you’re retarded in general, you’re just retarded in being baited.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't see that as an ah-ha

People can be incredibly intelligent but not know how to throw a slider – saying that they don’t know anything about throwing a slider is not at all a comment on their intelligence.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

right, it’s not a comment on their intelligence in general. but it is a comment on their intelligence about sliders. which is my point all along, you can’t separate the argument from personal traits like intelligence. by calling someone’s argument as stupid, you’re calling their intelligence in this one area as stupid as well, which is not what you said here.

From my perspective attacking somebody’s argument and attacking their intelligence/character/personality are completely different,

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

A really incredibly intelligent person

who does not know how to throw a slider doesn’t try.

Unless they are lefthanded.

(Don’t tell me you are lefthanded?)

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

back off bud

i’m a lefty. never thrown a slider tho.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The aforementioned incredibly

intelligent person would know that being lefthanded, it wouldn’t matter if they knew how to throw a slider or not.

They would be well versed in the knowledge that simply being able to get a ball over the plate (or even close proximity) was qualification enough to get a shot at a spot on a MLB staff.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

own it brother!

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

are you Desmond from LOST now?

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Im a LOST addict. Cant wait for Feb. 3rd!!!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

boo

that show lost me like 3 episodes in

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I stuck around for three or four seasons

but it got to a point where enough was enough.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn’t fan of the new preview for season 6.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m tired of entering in the numbers brother!

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

own it!

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Again though

there is a different between not being very nice to talk to (I’ll admit I can be very dismissive of people’s arguments/opinions) and actually insulting the person.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm starting to think you need to ...

..negotiate with twistedlogic for his screen name.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

YES! I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i think he meant that as "osfan21 is using some twistedlogic"

to answer your question, there is a lot we disagree about. mostly why i’m remaining out of this conversation.

and no, my screen name is not up for grabs.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

What about something like twistedlogic O

That way, I’d confuse you to almost as often as I confuse O Nina and Lena O. Am I the only one who does that?

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

yea i do that too

used to get osfan21 and os21girl mixed up too.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Aw, sad.

I’ll have to get myself into a belligerent argument about something political or otherwise extremely sensitive… or start acting batshit insane and then accuse everyone of being mean to me… THEN y’all won’t confuse me with anybody! ;)

by O Nina on Dec 17, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Birdman seems to think we are brothers from a different mother.

I’m wishing I had stayed out of this conversation as well…

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I meant it in the two distinct words

sense.

Not the twistedlogic’s viewpoint sense.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

In fact there is other ways to take what I said.

I’d venture to say that outside the laws of physics, there are few absolutes.

Not sure it’s my fault that you choose to read it only one way.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

So stacey and twisted just happened to also read it as an insult huh?

You might need to consider your words a little more carefully. Maybe you didn’t actually mean it the way 3 people read it, but if so that’s still a problem.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well to be fair here

my comment was more of a response to the retarded kid comment. but yes, i did find that comment mildly offensive to both retarded children and osfan21

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless I've totally gone off the deep end ..

… I believe the term I used was special needs kid.

I never called O’sFan retarded.

I did say he’s easy to spin up. I’m standing by that one.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i got that

and i see where you were going with it. but at first glance, i did think you were calling him retarded. if you have to think to make sure its not an insult, then you’re probably just better off not saying anything.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps it is because I have a thick skin ...

… but I don’t worry too much if people get insulted by my comments. I don’t believe in the new found right of never getting offended.

I know better than to let something written in a forum like this get to me. I might get worked up on a particular topic, but I am unlikely to be insulted, no matter what is said. You can talk about my mother, my looks, my intelligence (or lack thereof), anything. I could very well dismiss the personn making the comments or even take a shot at showing them up a little, but never insulted.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

yea i mean i got what you were saying

and i cant say i havent done that before. but at first glance, it did look insulting.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

That's great for you

and generally I’m with you about not getting offended, but I thought that was uncalled for and stepped over the lines (there are actual rules about not insulting people personally – whether we think there should be is not up for debate).

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I really find it hilarious that you keep bringing that up
We loves us from free speech, but the following behavior will not be tolerated on CC:

Personal attacks on community members, either directly or through sarcasm belittling

I agree with birdman.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a mod.

If you’ve got beef with the rules you’re talking to the wrong person.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh

Then why’d you bring them up?

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The pussy comment was inflamatory ...

… but it in no way could be taken personally – unless you are an elected official.

The special needs kid comment was used in reference to you, but in the context of illustrating how easy something was. Yes, at first glance it is possible to mistake it as being personal, but once a little thought is given to it, the intent should be pretty clear.

Knowing you are a bit of a firebrand, it then became a simple case of watching you light up. Maybe a bit mean spirited, but certaintly preferable to ligthing cats on fire.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That's ok.

I’m not selling anything.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Do NOT make her turn this blog around!

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Have a conversation – like WW and I are – or don’t. Fucking worthless shit like that doesn’t do anything except piss people off and make you look like you can’t actually have a debate.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm at work and in order to have a conversation with you ...

… at least in the manner you seem to prefer, I’d have to contribute heavily to the swear jar. The women set it up to help me curb that particular bad habit. Not sure it is worth backsliding on .

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow....

We could really be in the making for the “Swear Jar Olympics” with these two… .LIGHT THE TORCH!!!!!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I was discussion this perfectly civilly until you brought out the “pussy” comment and compared me to a mentally challenged kid. Don’t get all morally superior here.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like

O’sFan21, women, AND the mentally handicapped have been slammed today.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I mean, I don’t really care about that actually. Those of you who’ve been around while know I’ll stand up for the ladies as needed, but pussy, whatever. But as long as we’re counting insults.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case, my apolgies to Stacy and

any other female Camden Chatters who don’t like the term. I’m a bit on the old side and don’t always use more correct terms. That still doesn’t excuse me from offending someone I don’t intend to.

fyi – for any of the guys offended, sounds like a personal problem.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't take any offense, dude

When I take offense, you’ll know.

I do take offense to my name being spelled wrong, though ;-)

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The page keeps sliding on me with all the

posts coming so fast that I am making mistakes.

Stacey

Stacey

Stacey.

Hopefully the repetition will help prevent future errors on that score.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, people with albisnism got it yesterday

We’re equal opportunity offenders here.

And I’m just glad no one posted the “Arguing on the internet is like….” gif.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I was remiss in not including the term politicians,

as they were the specific group of Democrats I was referring to.

And as I was not aware of what political affliation you identified with, how is can it be considered a personal attack on you?

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case, I guess I wasn't remiss.

Of course if O’sFan is an elected official, then he does have a point about seeing it as personal.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

Oregon and Washington.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

People swear in Oregon and Washington?

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

All that rain?

I’d be surprised if they didn’t

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Rain is good.

Keeps things green. Keeps the turbines turning. And most importantly, keeps the Californians from moving up here.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

That last one is pretty important...

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

That comment probably earns you ...

… honorary resident status.

Even though you said you have no desire to come out here.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I could deal with a trip to Seattle

to see the Experience Hendrix stuff.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

it's an okay exhibit

but what’s really funny is the whole grunge section

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Crap....

I must’ve missed this one.

/esc

lol

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

In the long run it won't matter.

By the time the nanny staters are finished riding climate change, it will be a toss up between not being able to afford to live or life sucking so much you wouldn’t care to.

Who needs health care under those circumstances?

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

is "nany staters" code for

people who actually think government can help rather than harm?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

more like

People who rely on the police to protect them instead of protecting themselves.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on how broadly you want to define it.

For me it descibes people who think they know better as to what is good for everybody and then utilize government to apply it once they find out people aren’t interested in what somebody else thinks is good for them.

Helmet laws, seat belt laws, bans on trans fat, etc, etc , etc. Freedom of choice takes a back seat to making sure somebody’s sensitivities are not offended. Like the Washington State ledgislature a couple of years back debating a new standard for child safety seats. Seems a distraught mother, who lost her son in an auto accident when he was thrown from the vehicle when she went off the edge of the road and the shoulder crumbled, felt it was her mission in life to get the standard changed, SO THAT THIS CAN NEVER HAPPEN TO ANOTHER CHILD. (Standard reason for nanny types even though it is complete BS.)

Her son was legally of age that he wasn’t required to be in a safety seat. He was also small for his age. As a result, he suppossedly could not be securely fastened by the seat belt. The House and Senate argued over who was going to be “more safe”, with competing standards of 7 yrs old and 70 lbs or 8 yrs and 80 lbs. (I believe the latter was settled on. More is always good to nanny staters.)

Lets completely ignore the fact that nothing prevented the woman from continuing to place her son in a safety seat if he was too small to use a seat belt. Or that there is zero evidence that increasing the standard will save any additional lives. Nor the fact she was at fault for the vehicle rolling in the first place, which is what really killed her son. That would require accepting personal responsibility. Instead she has realized the “worthy” accomplishment of assuaging her guilt. At the minor cost of increased expense to both the tax payers and those families with childern that now may have to make additional purchases of child seats.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry

Not sure exactly what you’re talking about here. Seatbelt and helmet laws?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Except I didn't say it to you.

I honestly didn’t understand what he was talking about.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Just funny....

thats your catch phrase: “I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here” when you try and refute someone’s point.

Its clever… I like it…. kind of.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm liking you more and more, WW......

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Once upon a time you could ride a bike without having to wear a helmet.

Go a little further back and you the same applied to motorcycles.

And when it was deemed that mandating seatbelts in all new vehicles (a good idea) was not the same as making sure people wore them, states passed manditory seatbelt laws. They were first sold to the public as the sort of violation that you could not be stopped for. Only if you had been pulled over for another reason could you be ticketed for not wearing your belt. Once the new law passed, they did a administrative change to the category.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok and what's wrong with that?

People not wearing helmets and seatbelts costs us all money. In taxes that pay the people to go and scrape them off the ground and in increased healthcare costs for their treatment thereafter. Why shouldn’t the government step in when people are too stupid to adjust their behavior on their own when the alternative creates a drain on society?

I’m curious – you seem to be all for the government staying out of our lives. Are you opposed to gay marriage bans then?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

see below

Helmets are viewed as a panacea when, like most things, learning how to properly ride a bicycle is much, much more valuable when it comes to staying alive on a bike.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what we do for motorcycles...

Ok, Im actually lost as to whats going on here.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Me too

I don’t get how we got here, but I don’t see a problem with asking people to be safer.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

asking is fine

We’re not talking about someone being asked.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure we are

they are being asked to do it or pay a fine.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Please

I sincerely hope you know the difference between being asked and being compelled.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Anybody who doesn’t want to wear a seatbelt or a helmet is certainly free to do so. They just have to pay the fine.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

YOu do realize that this is the same as saying...

… Anybody can choose to pay their taxes or not. They just get all their possessions seized and put in jail.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Except

that you don’t get all your possessions seized and go to jail. You just pay a fine. So no it’s not at all like that.

What it IS like is speeding. Anybody can speed (I do almost 100% of the time), but you might have to pay some tickets.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Do it enough times

and you get your license revoked. Continue to drive on a suspended license and get thrown into jail. It escalates – at no time are you free to speed. The penalties get harsher as you continue to speed.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on the state I guess.

But in lots of states unless it’s reckless driving, you can do it indefinitely as long as you pay your tickets on time and don’t care about your insurance going up.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You should check it out a little closer.

Sure, it is only a fine, if you pay your taxes. If you refuse to pay, the IRS places a lien against your property, which is the first step to seizing it.

Continue to resist and men with guns will show up at your door to arrest you.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Right...

and my point was that none of that happens when you don’t wear your seatbelt (except for the fine). lol

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you figure?

Has a single person ever gone to jail for not wearing their seatbelt?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on what your objective is.

If the objective is to make riding in (or on) a vehicle safer, then making seatbelts, safety seats and helmits available and encourging their use is fine. I support that completely.

But when you start using the saving money argument, you open up a completely different can. For one thing, there is more than one approach to the money issue besides limiting personal choice. You can pass a law allowing the denial of treatment. You can bill people for the added cost. My point is that it is difficult to trust the motives of someone (I’m speaking generically now, so don’t think I am referring specifically to you. I am not.) who pushes an issue based on one setr of arguments and then switches to a different set to justify it.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

But why can’t there be multiple motives? Keeping people safer and cutting the costs on society are linked.

As far as how they go about achieving those goals, sure there are different ways of doing it.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Only children under 16 have to wear a helmet while cycling

Older than 16, you don’t have to. I’m a cyclist and I wouldn’t ever ride without a helmet, but there is more than one school of thought on the subject. This Wikipedia link sums up some of the positions, both for and against, and cites studies etc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bike_helmet#The_helmet_debate:_science

I’m too much of a wimp to ride without one, but it doesn’t mean I’m actually any safer because I wear it.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just getting back to cycling, so I'll to check ...

… but I think in Oregon there is no age limit.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, yeah

But but what about the PBR-drinking fixie-riding hipsters in Portland? A helmet would ruin their ironic outfits!

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Sons of Anarchy

Anybody seen it? I started Season 1 on Tuesday evening and am already finished it. Planning on starting Season 2 tonight.

Crazy crazy show (to me) but I recommend it.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 9:19 AM EST reply actions  

I've watched a few

but i always forget about FX.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Im starting Season 2 tonight...

Looking forward to it. Im a TV junkie.
I have about 12-13 shows Ive watched EVERY episode of and with
a couple of those series’ ending I was looking for a new show and
stumbled upon it.

Enjoying it thus far…

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like me

Even some shows i hate i watch. I cant read for school without something going in the background. And with at least 5 hours of reading a night, i can fit in a lot of tv.

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Larry Bigbie and Sidney Ponson

My Thursday is off to a bad start with those two guys making headlines. I’m surprised Ponson hasn’t done reality television by now. I’m thinking a rogue Bachelor or an old drunk party guy for any number of MTV shows – pick one.

It should be some kind of rule that all references to Ponson be accompanied by this photo, which when you think about it sums up his baseball career pretty nicely. Although he should be wearing a Metallica T-shirt, and David Wells should be partying with him.

by Roarfrom34 on Dec 17, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions  

Nah, Matt Riley

Since Sidney and Scott did their best to lead that young man to a life of ruin….

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice pants, Scott

“The women think he’s really handsome, and the guys think he’s one of them, so everybody kind of gets turned on,” says rocker Joan Jett, a diehard Orioles fan.

Source

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Joan Jett is a diehard Orioles fan?

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep

She’s from Baltimore, has sung the Anthem at games before, and presented Cal with something or other when he caught and passed Gehrig’s record.

"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson

by Brotz13 on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

nutty.

who knew?

…i mean, besides you and probably some other people.

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Dec 17, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Wikipedia says she grew up in Wheaton

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 18, 2009 3:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I grew up in Wheaton.

Couple blocks from Arcola Elementary.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 18, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Kemp Mill?

That’s pretty awesome. I’m from Silver Spring, just go south on Georgia. I went to Sligo Middle and Einstein High School. You?

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 18, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost Kemp Mill, but not quite.

I think about half of my grade school went to Sligo and then would have gone to Northwood HS.

The other half went to Lee MS. Some went to Northwood and most of the rest went to Kennedy. I left Lee after the 7th grade to attend St Johns College HS done in the District.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 21, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Dear Andy/Peter

Please take whatever absurd sum of money you would offer Holliday, place it in an interest-bearing account, and offer it all to Adam Dunn next offseason.

kthxbye!

by punkrawka on Dec 17, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions  

I can get behind this!

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I kind of hope McPhail isn't done, yet.

He went into the off season looking for: 1) a veteran starting pitcher, 2) an experienced closer, 3) a temporary 3B til Bell is ready and 4) a 1B and cleanup hitter. Seems like he has completed the first three. The Orioles haven’t lost any of their coveted prospects, yet, but have spent some on Angelos extra money (rumor is he has some). We did give up next years #2 draft pick, but that’s no sure thing anyway. We still have four young outfielders plus Luke Scott.
The only glaring need on that shopping list is a 1B cleanup hitter. To me, Luke Scott is extra baggage. He’s very streaky and the O’s have Reimold for DH next year (unless his achilles is completely healed). My hope is that McPhail is still looking for that 1B power hitter. Long term or short term, it still is a need.

by fuddnelson on Dec 17, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

agreed..

we really need a cleanup hitter…someone that can set everything in motion…

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone think

maybe he already plans on going after another type A, so he said screw it with Gonzalez? If so, i’d like to know who that FA is soon.

by daveh873 on Dec 17, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

I feel like if you’re gonna get one type A, you might as well get 50.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much

I just cant see dropping money like that and a nice pick unless you’re actually looking at a couple guys. A solid closer-type makes alot more sense if we actually plan on having some leads in a few of our games this year.

by daveh873 on Dec 17, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't that the Yankees philosophy last year?

We signed one, fuck it, let’s sign them all.

"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09

by getxstoked on Dec 17, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Today's Open Thread is a good time to say

that, with almost 100% certainty now, that Aubrey Huff has played his last game as an Oriole. He helped us out.

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 10:20 AM EST reply actions  

well said, sir.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

is sidney ponson even still alive?

because he probably shouldnt be…sir sidney…lmfao…what a waste…

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions  

Chris Henry just died.

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions  

That's a crazy domestic dispute.

She’ll probably get some sort of manslaughter charge.

Bengals gonna go all the way now. Like the Angels.

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

doubt it.

i bet there are no charges filed. i knew a guy that got into with his babies’ momma and ended up jumping in front of her car and she killed him. no charges.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Haven't been any filed yet

and she drove off after he jumped/fell out. Unless they were waiting to see if manslaughter charges were possible, not sure they’re gonna charge her with anything.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Draft Question

If we sign another Class A Free agent, do we lose our 3rd round pick?
Unless I have overlooked something, there isn’t a big hitting first base FA, meaning that we would have to trade for one. Any trade partner would want young pitchers. To that, I say, “no.” Only with superior pitching will we ever contend.
If Adam Dunn is a FA next year, I say wait until then.

by BaltoBen on Dec 17, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

No

Our pick is protected

by GeoffreyA on Dec 17, 2009 11:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

it looks like someone took a picture of a normal guy

and photoshopped it into a mean-spirited caricature.

by PhilR8 on Dec 17, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

The lesson, as always

Teach your children to play baseball. They don’t even have to do it well, apparently.

"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson

by Brotz13 on Dec 17, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Connolly: Terms of Atkins' deal
According to an industry source, third baseman Garrett Atkins’ contract with the Orioles is one year for $4 million with an opportunity to make as much as $5 million in 2010. The deal includes a one-year club option for $8.5 million.

WTF?!? I hope he fails his physical. Seriously, Crede would have been better and probably cheaper.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

How about the part

where we pay more for Atkins than we could have paid for Feliz?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well

Pretty much exactly the same except for an extra 500k. For somebody who’s worse (definitely worse defensively, and while he might have had good offensive years in the past – in an absurd stadium – this past year was dramatically worse than feliz).

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Well Atkins is anywhere from 4-5M with incentives

If he sucks as much as everyone expects, he’ll be cheaper.

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

4 Million just really all that much money

and the team option, depending on the buyout, seems like a decent gamble to me. If he can bounce back somewhat, it could be a good deal

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn't it 5?

But yeah I don’t care too much about the money, but if we were going to spend that much why not spend it on Feliz where at least you know you’ll get awesome defense? With this there’s the potential to get bad defense and terrible offense (OPS+ of 68?)

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I mean, why have 2 Ty Wiggintons?

We could have kept Mora for what we’re paying those 2. Hey, he could bounce back too!

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Atkins seems like this year's version of Ryan Freel to me

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

At this point, I hope he's this year's Juan Uribe

He gains 100 OPS when he switches teams, for the first year.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You dont know if there was any negotiations with Feliz though

Theres no guarantee that we could have gotten him for the same contract. He may have wanted more to come to Baltimore.

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

And just to be clear im not happy with this deal, just apathetic

Cant wait to see Garrett Atkins on the bench after the all-star break

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I guess I share that. Was just hoping for less money.

I hope he has a monster year offensively and when Bell is ready he can DH until the trading deadline and then we flip him for prospects. A man can dream!

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

but what happens if

atkins has a monster year then bell comes up and he flops….do we keep atkins or do we suffer through bell and hope he gets better..hes a beast in the minors but that jump to the bigs can be rough…

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

True.

But if Atkins is really having a monster year and we can get a haul for him I think you have to do it anyway. He’s not young and really has sucked recently so the odds of him being good long term aren’t great.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

true

he would make great trade bait if he can somehow pull his stats out of that tailspin..

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

It's actually five million

Once the $500k buyout of his 2011 option is considered. Plus the incentives, whatever they are.

Ew. I’m starting to lean towards MacPhail actually being an idiot who just got awesomely lucky with the Bedard deal.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a bit much I think

He’s not having a particularly impressive winter, that’s for certain…but he’s clearly a very smart man with at least some kind of plan.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure...

…I don’t believe that anyone becomes the GM of a major league franchise without being good at something. That said, the number of missteps are now piling up, and they are all very concerning.

Paying more for Atkins than Pedro Feliz cost is ugly, and demonstrates that our front office is not valuing defense properly (not to mention putting paid to their claims that they were going to wait out the 3b market for a good deal). Trading for Steve Johnson, a pitcher we knew needed to be protected from the Rule V, then seeing him perform better than reasonably could have been suspected and letting him go unprotected. Shelling out $25 million dollars for one year of Millwood, one of Atkins, and two of Gonzalez. This quote from Roch: “Gonzalez will cost the Orioles their second-round selection in next year’s draft, but they don’t care. The scouting department had no issues with surrendering that pick to sign a Type A free agent.

Not only do the Orioles appear to be abandoning their plan, but the plan they do have strikes me as being questionable in its fundamentals.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Paying more for Atkins than Pedro Feliz cost is ugly

Everyone says this like they know Feliz would have signed with the Orioles for the same amount. Which they obviously don’t. The Feliz ship sailed a week ago, and hIndsight is 20-20. Do you really think the Orioles just considered Feliz, then decided, “no, let’s sign this other guy instead”, or is it possible, just possible, that they tried to sign Feliz and he had no interest in playing in Baltimore?

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

do you have any inside info that we made him an offer and were rebuffed? I haven’t heard anything like that.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I haven’t heard anything like that.

Well, then, I guess nothing like that ever happened then.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude - relax I'm not attacking you.

I’m just saying – why should we assume that simply because it’s a possibility? All we can do is compare this signing to other signings of similar players at the same position. To say that “We MIGHT have made an offer and he rebuffed it” so we shouldn’t bother talking about it doesn’t make much sense to me if there hasn’t been even the slightest whisper of that happening.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not attacking you either!

It was snark/sarcasm. Sorry if it didn’t come across that way. Still early here.

To say that "We MIGHT have made an offer and he rebuffed it" so we shouldn’t bother talking about it doesn’t make much sense to me if there hasn’t been even the slightest whisper of that happening.

No, it makes total sense. Because in the offseason, a thousands idiot fans say, WHY DIDN’T ANDY JUST DO THIS, like they know all the cards that were on the table, without having ever been in the rooms. It’s a pointless exercise.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

But I'm not saying "why didn't Andy just do that"

Or at least I’m not intending to – I didn’t go back to read any of my posts to make them seem that way – I am really just saying that it’s annoying that we’re paying x for Atkins when Felix was had for y.

It definitely might not have been possible for the O’s to sign Felix, or to sign him for what he got, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be annoyed about it.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

i have to agree with this

i read some of those articles that talked about the orioles actively pursuing feliz. i feel like his not coming here didn have much to do with the orioles just waiting it out.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

I don’t see any mention of an offer or any rebuffing. Unlike the Jason Bay situation where they clearly made an offer and he rejected it, for example.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

dude.

just because jeff zriebeck didn’t report an offer or whatever doesn’t mean that Macphail didn’t say, “what’s it take to get it done”, and Feliz’s agent said back, “for you? $8M.”

you just don’t know. the absence of anything being reporting still means you don’t know.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

definitely righ

we don’t know. That definitely could have happened.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not the point

I would rather pay Feliz six million than pay Atkins five, but I’m not bummed over not getting Feliz. I’m bummed because we’re paying way too much for something that isn’t valuable, and I’m using Feliz as a measuring stick because he is a player that does have value and was paid less (and the perception was that he was overpaid too).

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

eh

i dont really think that the measuring stick is a handy tool. just because he was paid less somewhere else doesnt mean much. he could have asked for more from the orioles.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

How much more?

Above, I said that I’d be willing to pay Feliz six million before I’d pay Atkins five. Six million would be a pay increase of 33% over Feliz’s deal with the Astros.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

some guys actually don't care about money at that point.

some guys might leave $1M on the table if they think a situation is better for them. lots of folks say, “no every player goes for the most money”, but players cut discounts for teams all the time.

maybe feliz simply had no interest whatsoever in coming to baltimore. not even for $7M.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean really

what’s the difference in standard of living between making 5 M a year and 7 M a year? God I hate that I wasn’t better at baseball…

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

We should've offered Feliz

the opportunity to be honorary moderator here at CC to sweeten the pot. He woulda signed then, I KNOW IT!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe not

But let’s be honest – it isn’t like going to Houston is going to some awesome baseball team with a great shot at contending. I find it highly improbable that Feliz went to Houston for any reason but the money, as well as improbable that he wouldn’t have come here for more.

But I’ll say again: it isn’t about Feliz. It is about the failure to get the most out of our money and situation.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

oh and disagree on the getting the most of our money and situation

feliz signed with the astros and wasnt available to us. deal with it. sure i think hes better than atkins (as i’m sure the numbers will indicate) but he didnt sign with us. we signed somebody else who at least has some potential to be better than watching wiggy all season.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't agree with that at all

I think the Orioles have a better shot at the playoffs than the Astros.

The odds aren’t great, but Tillman and Matusz could be amazing. Wieters should be one of the most valuable players in baseball as a catcher. We have a ton of upside on our ML roster.

The Astros have a couple aging stars and a lot of junk, plus Bourn and Pence. They are on the road to nowhere.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

and they dont play in the AL east

when you think we have a lineup and staff that can contend with the yankees and red sox, gimme a call

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

NL Central isn't a cakewalk

If everything goes right (and it almost certainly won’t), we could be the 2008 Rays as it stands now.

I don’t see any way that the same could be said of the Astros. They suck. We do too, but not that badly.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

yea but its a hell of a lot easier than the AL east

if the cards dont play well, then that division is up for grabs

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Brewers are also quite good

And the Cubs don’t suck. I even like the Reds’ upside.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

At some point

Jay Bruce is gonna put it all together and Joey Vottos gonna play the whole season. I think that’ll be next year. The Reds can contend.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 18, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Missteps yes

But, really, as much as I’ve criticized the individual moves, they still don’t add up to an awful lot of anything. Right now, there have been some things lost (which is incredibly irritating to me, because as a rebuilding club those are the things we probably need the most) but the fact remains that the success or failure of this team still lies in the hands of Brian Matusz, Brad Bergesen, Jake Arrieta, Chris Tillman, Matt Wieters, Nolan Reimold, Adam Jones, Josh Bell, and Nick Markakis (to varying degrees). And that’s what The Plan was really all about.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That's true.

Most (probably all) of these moves are really irrelevent for the long-term success of the organization. Hadn’t thought about it that way.

Also I think we’ll definitely be putting a better product on the field in the mean time.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

A better product yes

but not a significantly better one, and that’s where my problem comes in. We’ve paid a lot relative to the value we’re getting back, and at our current position that’s just being wasteful for the sake of looking proactive.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I actually deleted a sentence from that last post along the lines of “Whether we’re overpaying for that improved products is another question.” But we’re not bankrupting the organization or even handcuffing ourselves for future moves, so does it really matter if we’re overpaying a little bit for some improvement while we wait on the plan?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly.

especially since it’s better to have your fan base arguing that you made the wrong moves than it is to have them say you never make any.

this club will, without a doubt, be improved in 2010. people can argue all day whether or not it could have been more improved, but at the end of the day, we’re moving in the right direction. we will win some more games, and our young core will develop, and we will likely have some fans come back this year as a result.

and some people will not be happy until we outbid the yankees and red sox for a player or somesuch, which is a yardstick i don’t give a rat’s ass about.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

I’m looking forward to watching a much better team this year and seeing the young guys further develop.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

77 wins is a big improvement, but I don’t know if it’s really a ton of fun to watch.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

When you've watched what we have over the last 12 years?

I’ll take it.

In isolation, of course 77 wins isn’t much to get excited about, but coming from where we are and (hopefully!) going where we’re going I think it’s exciting.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It depends on your perspective, I guess

We’re not grossly handcuffing ourselves, but we have handcuffed ourselves a little bit with some roster inflexibility and the loss of a top 60 draft pick. That’s not nothing.

As for overpaying, what is bothering me is that if these are the types of deals this front office is giving for this kind of talent, then what do we kind of a deal would they give to someone who actually would be making a significant, long-term, risky deal with Baltimore? Obviously, I don’t know the answer, you don’t, none of us do (or could)…but it doesn’t speak particularly well of the sensibilities of Andy MacPhail.

Not that I’m losing faith. The man has almost single-handed redirected the freighter and has made more good moves than bad in total. But it’s been a strange offseason so far, and one that I haven’t enjoyed.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

As far as this
As for overpaying, what is bothering me is that if these are the types of deals this front office is giving for this kind of talent, then what do we kind of a deal would they give to someone who actually would be making a significant, long-term, risky deal with Baltimore?

If it’s the kind of player that puts us over the top and helps us win a division or even a world series, my response would be who cares what kind of deal we’d have to give them? Won’t it almost be worth it regardless? I don’t know that stats, but isn’t there an unbelievable financial value to an organization making the playoffs?

Definitely a strange offseason though. Not what I was expecting.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

re:
isn’t there an unbelievable financial value to an organization making the playoffs?

Indeed there is.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i don't think anyone expected this.

it’s interesting. Andy said, “Trembley will be judged on wins now, and I have to help him get there.”

It’s obvious that this is the first we’re seeing of “building Andy” as opposed to “restocking Andy”. The whiplash may take some getting used to.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I really think that's the biggest thing.

I was really pissed about the Gonzalez signing and initially the Atkins signing, but the more I think about it I think it was just because i had my head already wrapped around the “hold fast and wait for a better crop of free agents when the kids are more ready” idea.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

sign holliday to 5 yrs, win a title in 3, move him for a haul with 2 years left on his deal.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

one other point....

I said this to you in a thread the other day, I think.

I really think the time to judge all these moves is when Andy steps up to the podium in February or whenever, and says, “we’re done”.

In the middle of the storm, who knows? If we wind up landing Holliday because of Atkins (yeah, I know, it’s totally a ridiculous theory), doesn’t that change everything? And suddenly some things make sense?

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yes, I agree 100%

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well then we're still on with the plan

i see no reason why any of these signings/trades, no matter how stupid, are keeping any of the young players from developing.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yes. we are still on with the plan.

anything that happens this offseason is mildly important at best.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed to a point

All of that is true if we exclude opportunity cost from our calculations. I don’t. $25 million that can’t be spent on other things does add up to a lot.

More personally, I haven’t lived in Maryland for a long time. It costs me a fair bit of money to remain a committed O’s fan. I don’t like spending my money that way if it is for a team on the wrong track.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I just hope we can also sign Matt Capps

and have the heart of the 2006 Pirates bullpen

by kba26 on Dec 17, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

Hopefully the drunks will be respectful. -Stacey

Don’t worry Stacey. No matter how many Natty Bo’s I suck down at Sliders, I wouldn’t do anything to deface the statue of Brooks.

When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin

by Afghanistan Steve on Dec 17, 2009 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

Let's hope not.

Unless many moves would follow soon after…such as the dealing of Luke Scott and the transitioning of Nolan Reimold to 1B/DH/

by sickuvitall on Dec 17, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm coming around

Sign the man! You can drop Luke Scott off outside of town with a bible and a pistol and he’ll be just fine.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

we sign Holliday,

and then we trade Jones + Tillman for Adrian Gonzales, and then we sign Bedard, and then we trade Bedard + Matusz + Arrieta + Guthrie + Pie for Mark Teixeira, and then we finally HAVE MARK TEIXEIRA AND AGON AND ALL OF SCHMUCK’S READERS ARE HAPPY.

3. Win world Series.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Kevin Cowherd

extends his streak of idiocy.

Pull the trigger, Andy. Make a trade for A-Gon.

You won’t regret it.

No discussion as to what that trade would cost (i.e., TIllman + Jones + who knows who else?). Fortunately, some of his readers who have a clue waste some of their time calling him out in the comments.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

It really is the Peter (Schmuck) Principle at the Sun

David Steele, gone. Kevin Cowherd, well-tenured and writing barely-formed sports opinions after years as a homeless man’s Dave Barry.

"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson

by Brotz13 on Dec 17, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I've liked one Cowherd column, ever.

When he was still writing general interest stuff, I’d often read out of a kind of, “What is this doofus going on about now?” motivation and I just didn’t understand how this person could honestly draw a paycheck for this. Now he’s writing about sports and it’s basically the same schtick except now I actually care about the subject matter and so it’s more annoying.

But, a couple of years ago when there was that teenage kid who killed his family, he wrote a pretty good column after that and it didn’t use the typical idiot routine at all. After that I always felt like he just gets shitty assignments and mails them in, and you know, I’d probably do that too.

Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 17, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly this man has some severe mental limitations.

He deserves our pity, not our scorn.

"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008

Adam Jones is the tits.

by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 17, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

So what's our lineup going to be? assuming no more moves

Roberts 2B
Markakis RF
Jones CF
Wieters??? C
Reimold DH
Scott 1B
Atkins 3B
Pie LF
Izturis SS

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

holliday in the 4 hole...

ok…maybe not.

b-rob
jones
markakis
reimold
scott
pie
atkins
izzy

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Why Markakis behind Jones?

Jones seems like a much bigger power threat and Markakis should have a higher OBP.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't see dave moving jones out of the 2 hole

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey hey hey...

I wasnt advocating it, just saying he ended up there a good bit down the stretch (my faint drunken memories of Aug/Sep anyway).

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Only after Jones, Pie, and Reimold got hurt

and Huff got traded, which shuffled the order immensely.

"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09

by getxstoked on Dec 17, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

he only bounced around if someone

was off. i don’t have the ABs but I’d guess 85% of the time he was in the two hole? maybe that’s way off? I know he hit leadoff a couple of games that b-rob sat.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I tried briefly to find

lineup splits, but almost immediately got lazy and gave up.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

he batted 3rd a lot more than i remember.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Best guess

Roberts
Markakis
Reimold
Scott
Jones
Wieters
Atkins
Aubrey/Snyder
Izturis

That is one weak-ass bottom third.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

So no Pie?

I really think the lineup is stronger with Reimold, Pie, and Scott in the lineup.

Think you’re probably right about Wieters and the middle of the lineup to start the season, but hoping he’s such a beast that he works his way into the 3/4 hole.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i went back and forth on pie too

I really think pie starts on the bench and maybe wiggy plays 1B and scott DHs.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Where would Pie play?

Dave has expressly said that he doesn’t really think Scott or Reimold are first basemen. And Pie doesn’t get time over either of them, so unless Pie’s playing first, he’s the short straw.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

It has been widely reported that the O's don't consider Luke a starter at 1b

I think that ship has sailed. Right now, I think it would be:

Roberts 2b
Jones CF
Wieters C (they liked him so damn much in the three hole)
Markakis RF
Reimold LF
Scott DH
Atkins 3b
Wiggy/Aubrey 1b
Izturis SS

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Markakis as cleanup??

no thanks! Let him go back to just worrying about getting on base.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

According to Tom Tango...

…your best hitter is most valuable in the 4 spot, and the second best should be in the two hole.

You can flip him and Jones if you want. But that’s the best lineup, IMO, with what we currently have.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Everything I’ve seen about optimum lineups says you basically order them by OBP and adjust a few guys for slugging (which Nicky isn’t really great in…).

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

It has something to do with the odds that the #3 hitter will come up with the bases empty and two outs more often than anyone else. So in the three hole, you ought to sacrifice some OBP for some slugging.

But he also says that the difference over a full season between the best lineup and the worst is less than ten runs, and David Pinto agrees, so it doesn’t matter all that much.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

IN THAAAAT CASE.....

Scott
Wiggington
Atkins
Pie
Roberts
Izturis
Wieters
Jones
Reimold
Markakis

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it...

…but I say we bench Nicky… he’ll be such a great bat off the bench!

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

hehe

While we’re at it, I like going with Andino in center and relegating AJ to the pine.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The only thing that would make this better

is making Trembley the President of Operations and letting Brian Bass player/coach.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Or...

…we could turn Roberts into a super-utility Chone Figgins type and make Matusz the closer.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

and Ponson could solve the 3B problem

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

cant

andino is already starting at 2b after jones, roberts, and markakis get traded

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

that’s what I was saying. Nicky doesn’t offer much slugging though, so why put him 3/4?

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

Nick’s slugging was essentially no different from AJ’s, Reimolds, or B-Rob’s.

You have to assume that he gets placed somewhere from 2-4. I was just guessing that’s where he’d end up if the season started tomorrow.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well but it was only Reimolds first season and AJ's second.

We know what Nicky’s slugging is going to top at – AJ and Reimold should be higher. So shoudl God’s.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

In a perfect lineup I think you do bat nick 2nd. but this lineup is far from perfect. throw holliday in the mix and you might be able to bat him 2nd and AJ 3rd.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

yea but we've been over this

optimum lineup is a theory on paper which hardly any teams actually use. that said, i like markakis best in the 3 hole.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

True

I wouldn’t be sad to see the Orioles be the first to try it out though.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

Most teams order their lineup from OBP with slugging dictating who bats in the middle.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Im crazy but...

Roberts
Pie
Markakis
Reimold
Jones
Wieters
Atkins
Scott
Izturis

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Os21fan

Come on…. grade mine, grade mine!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't seem too crazy.

Thought about putting Pie in the 2 hole, but I really like Nicky there if he can go back to getting on base that is…

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!

I think Sons of Anarchy will unite us in the long run pal….
I like Reimold batting cleanup.
I think he has the potential to go for 35 bombs.

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope so!

That would solve some of our problems to say the least.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

remember the line

in austin powers where they are on the ladder and he says something along the lines of, “I used think you were crazy but now I can clearly see your nuts.”

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know why but that cracks me up.

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

WHat if y'all are ALL WRONG

like last year

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 17, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

psh

ive never been wrong before

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think there's too much overreaction here

The consensus is:

we want the Os to spend money
we want a power hitter
we need a 3b for some time (someone serviceable and with a good attitude)
we need a starting pitcher
we need a late innings reliever

Now, everyone here is complaining we paid too much or we don’t need a 3rd LF, the 2nd rd pick was too much or that we shoulda have picked up someone better. Who here is onthe negotiating box with mcp? You can criticize the deals if u like but sometimes certain deals (I.e. Atkins) lead to better deals (holliday). So you don’t want holliday? You’re arguing that Luke Scott> holliday? Atkins had a bad run but that whole “coors field” thing is getting overrated some now.

Too much money for a RP? And in June when he’s on some other team pitching better than ours you criticize for not signing.

Every other blog I’ve ever read about the Os ppl were qq’ing last year that texeira wasn’t worth overpayment but now we’re in the same predicament as last year— no 1b. We aren’t a flagship franchise anymore and until we are again we can’t justify NOT overpaying for players—— deal with it.

There are no realistic available players for us next year so it makes sense to sign 1-2 yr Sdeals now and hope we improve enough to be more attractive. Before you complain about who we sign, look at who’s out there next year plz….. (no we aren’t getting lee or Beckett)

by GeoffreyA on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Let me try this

Roberts 2B
Jones CF
Markakis RF
Weiters C
Reimold DH
Atkins 1B
Bell 3B
Pie LF
Izturis SS

by fuddnelson on Dec 17, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

good grief!

you’re bringing bell – future hall of famer up at the beginning of the year?

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don't like Atkins at 3B

Bring up Bell for defense. What the hell. We’re dreamin anyway!

by fuddnelson on Dec 17, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I forgot

Scott traded for a SS prospect

by fuddnelson on Dec 17, 2009 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Zrebiec on Holliday:
Don’t get too excited. The Orioles, according to sources, did have some discussions about Holliday with agent Scott Boras during their negotiations regarding Gonzalez. Any team would be interested in such a player, especially a club with a glaring need for a right-handed power hitter. However, the Orioles are quite realistic about their chances of landing Holliday. And privately, they have no expectations whatsoever that Holliday will be with the team next year.

by James F on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

so did they actually make an offer?

Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt

by BPinOK on Dec 17, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s what I expected. Andy asked about his general parameters of Holliday’s price, Boras responded, and that’s about all that happened. It’s just due diligence on Andy’s part.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

ugh...

macphail may still be working the phones, but millwood, atkins and gonzalez? not impressed at all.

boo.

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Dec 17, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

I order six

just in case the first five get lost in the mail.

"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"

by Andrew_G on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

ME TOO!!!

Order 6 Atkins jersey, get one Gonalez jersey FREEEEEE!!!!

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

this just in.

orioles have bid luke scotts first born for matt holliday. and its looking like that may not be enough. boras is also asking for matt weiters soul and brian matusz’ teeth for the deal to be made.

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

when they declined to rename opacy

he said matt holliday was out of the question then but hed give us a great deal on luis matos

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

from the digitalsportsdaily.com

Fox Sports Ken Rosenthal reports early Thursday morning the Orioles would be willing to make Holliday an offer. While the Orioles probably won’t land Hollidy, in a division with spenders like the Red Sox and Yankees, it’s nice to know Baltimore hasn’t thrown in the towel just yet on 2010.

by Parkinglotninja on Dec 17, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

hahah yea sounds like it

i’ve been here all day and it got quiet there for a while

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I just got home from work.

"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09

by getxstoked on Dec 17, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

yea tomorrow is the last day for exams

and naturally ive got one them. freakin psychology of all classes too

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn

Systems + Aerospace > Chemical Engineering… Still, I don’t want to think about the exam I took this morning. Quick, change subjects! GO ORIOLES

by cjatud2012 on Dec 17, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

lawl

yea that happens to me pretty much every time i take an exam. so how bout that forecast?

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

There are only two kinds of engineers.

Chem E’s and those who wish they could be.

And the best engineering school in the country? University of Maryland – where a degree in History gets you a job as an engineer (Component Reliability & Maintenance Trending engineer at a nuclear power plant.)

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 18, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha, +1.

Also a chemical engineer here; just graduated from Drexel this year.

Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.

by Vuff on Dec 18, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds nice on paper

although i still cant find a job so lotta good that paper does

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks smart-ass ;-)

there are a lot involved with the shuttle program

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Lockmart

We build the external tank. We are also building the Orion capsule at the same place, but they don’t need as many people. Supposedly Boeing is going to built the Ares I rocket here, but they don’t want to build it here.

If you’re in MD there’s a lot of work up there, esp in research. It’s pretty much all manufacturing here in NOLA.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

ah yea...i'm in northern va

trying to set myself up so i can work on some of these projects, but i’d just be entry level so its a little harder to get in

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I got in through the co-op program

if you do that, and you are at all useful, they will give you a job offer at graduation.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 18, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone said...

… we are getting 12-15 inches of snow in MD this weekend. Anyone hear this?

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions  

That would explain why my store was so busy today.

"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09

by getxstoked on Dec 17, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Grocery store.

People freak out if there might be snow and come in and get all their eggs, milk, and bread, among other things.

"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09

by getxstoked on Dec 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow....

that was one of my nerdiest jokes of the day… yall must be bored. Haha

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard 5+

it’s gonna be worse further south though, like PG area.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

haven't been east coast skiing in forever

but I always preferred Liberty. Always less crowded and I like the 4 hours lift tickets.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

bah whitetail blows

so does liberty, round top, and blue knob. yea….our local skiing sucks.

by twistedlogic on Dec 17, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice thing about the PNW

You can enjoy all the great aspects of winter with a 1 – 2 hour drive, without having to put up with the pain in the ass part of scraping windows, shovelling driveways and dealing with idiots who can’t drive on snow.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 17, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah not horrible.

Last few years I haven’t had much time for day/weekend trips so I’ve just tried to get one good week long trip out west.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that same someone thinks we're signing Matt Holliday and trading for Adrian Gonzalez

And probably also thinks that if we don’t do both of these things that “MacFail” needs to be fired.

Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 17, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe I have now listened to "Crabs for Christmas" ten times today

And I could probably listen to it ten more and still not be tired of it.

Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 17, 2009 4:35 PM EST reply actions  

I have never heard of this song

You must provide a link

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzpEvmtCcDI

"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.

by LenaO on Dec 17, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This could be

the next “Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer”.

You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.

by sluggo 2.0 on Dec 17, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard it on 101.9

that’s right. Light FM. I like the christmas songs.

 I actually changed the channel in the middle of it. I do not like that particular christmas song. it did make me laugh just a bit.

by Steve. on Dec 17, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I gotta run boys and girls....

I love each and every one of you in your own way.

(But I do think OsFan21 is getting coal in his stocking)

by Wieters Wieners on Dec 17, 2009 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

haha

I’m used to it. Childhood spent throwing various things at various other things – I’ve been getting coal in my stocking for years.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to warn you...

my way involves shaving cream and car batteries. Be ready, stud.

"(Brock Lesnar) is never in good spirits and he's not in good spirits now." - Dana White

by duck on Dec 17, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Ooo!

I love the AL East Hot Stove widget on the front page!

by O Nina on Dec 17, 2009 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

I made it last night.

by Stacey on Dec 17, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice job

We have been needing more handy widgets.

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 17, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

hardball times article

I apologize if this has been already posted – there’s about 1000 comments I haven’t been reading over the past day (final exams, ya know):

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/orioles-get-great-value-in-mike-gonzalez/

here’s the point of the article, if you can wrap your head around it (I know it took me a couple of tries before I got it). it’s comparing the Gonzalez signing to the Brandon Lyon signing:

“Baltimore paid market value to take advantage of expected return on investment. Houston did it the other way around: they paid expected market value to take advantage of return on investment.”

by ugen64 on Dec 17, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions  

"Former Angel Jose Arredonde Stabbed In Dominican Republic"

Did anyone see that?! That’s crazy!

I thought he was getting Tommy John surgery but instead, gets stabbed in the face…probably.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 17, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

Holy shit. Hope he’s ok. I was hoping the O’s would sign him.

Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.

by birdman on Dec 17, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Trading Citizens Bank for Safeco

would cheer up most pitchers. Maybe he just really wants a World Series ring? Thats pretty admirable.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah much easier path to the world series.

Also sounded like he really liked the clubhouse there.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 18, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he really does.

It amazes me, the extent to which players often seem to have no idea what’s going on with club-agent negotiations. I mean, if Cliff wanted to stay in Philly as much as it sounds like he did, then why did the Phillies feel like they couldn’t sign him long-term? Was all the communication through his agent, who perhaps wasn’t willing to talk about a three-year deal? Or maybe the Phils’ front office isn’t being completely honest about making him a good offer. Who knows?

Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.

by Vuff on Dec 18, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

And what about

the Phillies telling him the night before the trade that there was no truth to the rumor that they were shopping him? So much shady behavior.

by O'sFan21 on Dec 18, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I really don't like that, either.

Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.

by Vuff on Dec 18, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

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