Rich Hill: Mishandled? Misunderstood? A genius? Bad back?
One of my favorite O's blogs is Weaver's Tantrum, which is a great blog name, by the way. Desert O posted a Rich Hill 2008 timeline yesterday that makes his season seem a little more peculiar than just the loss of control:
- Apr. 19--Hill wins his first game. He is 1-0, 3.86 ERA but struggled with his control early in the game.
- Apr. 26--Hill is still having control problems. Lou Piniella threatens Hill through the Chicago press with a move to the pen. Lou doesn't follow through, Hill continues to start.
- May 3--Hill starts against the Cards. Again, he can't find the plate early, walking four in 2/3 of an inning. That night the Cubs option him to AAA Iowa. He started 5 major league games, going 19.2 innings, walking 18.
- May16--Hill leaves a AAA game with a "stiff" back. Was his back bothering him earlier? Was he struggling because of it? Were his first inning problems caused by a stiff back? Impossible to say.
- May 19--Hill goes on Iowa's DL with back "spasms."
- June 6--Hill comes off the DL and walks seven his first time out.
- June 18--The Chicago Trib says Hill and Matt Murton might be sent to Boston for Coco Crisp.
- June 23--Jim Hendry publicly claims that Hill's problems are mental. The Cubs send Hill to Rookie League Mesa to work on his mechanics and mental approach. Hill's AAA numbers are 7 GS, 2-4 record, 26IP, 28BB, 5.88 ERA. Why would Hendry assume mental problems when Hill was on the DL less than three weeks earlier? Maybe to make Hill into more attractive trade bait?
- July 2--Low point of the year. Hill walks three, hits one batter in 1/3 of an inning against rookie league players. Lou Piniella, who hasn't seen Hill pitch in two months, says his problems are mental and suggests Hill should be shut down for a mental break. How does Lou know? Why is Lou piling onto Hill through the press? The Cubs disregard Lou's advice and continue to play Hill. He gets two more starts at Mesa (3 starts, 9.1 IP, 5 BB, 1-1 record, 2.89 ERA) then gets sent to A+ Daytona.
- Aug. 4--After three starts at Daytona, Hill goes on the DL again with a "back ailment." Sounds like his problems weren't mental after all. He was 1-2, 12.1 innings, 11 walks, 8.03 ERA there. Rumors say he is done for '08. Thank God.
- Sept. 1--I'm a little fuzzy on this part, but Hill gets recalled to Chicago then goes straight to the DL with a "lower back strain." It sounds like an administrative move.
- Oct. 15--For some idiot reason, Hill pitches in the Venezualan Winter League. I don't know whose idea that was, but after a couple decent starts Hill collapses again. Why didn't he rest his back all winter and pull himself together? Why didn't the Cubs make him rest? Were they hoping winter league success would make him easier to trade?
BTF's Transaction Oracle weighs in on the Hill pickup, too, and it's pretty much exactly my thoughts:
This is exactly the type of move the Orioles should be making. There are very good reasons to think that Rich Hill will be a terrible major league pitcher in 2009, but the Orioles rotation is made up of Jeremy Guthrie and terrible major league pitchers, so the consequences of Hill continuing to have serious command issues are relatively minimal for a team in Baltimore's position. If Hill doesn't rebound, let's say he throws 100 innings with an ERA of 7.00. Given that the alternative would be a player that will probably throw 100 innings with an ERA of 6.00, we're only talking about the loss of a win or so. The Orioles go from a 72-win team to a 71-win team. Whoop de doo.
But what if Hill does turn it around, which is at least a possibility? The team gets Hill for 4 years and if he does bounce all the way back, that's a ridiculous deal considering how small the risk is. Even if he only bounces back enough to be a 90 ERA+ pitcher, with an ERA around 5.00, he still is an upgrade over what the Orioles have.
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Sigh
Even if he only bounces back enough to be a 90 ERA+ pitcher, with an ERA around 5.00, he still is an upgrade over what the Orioles have.
Regardless of the fact that football is over and spring training is around the corner, it’s because of facts like this that I just can’t get motivated for baseball season.
But the important question is
Does he love his Mom and take his vitamins?
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
What that blog post doesn't mention...
… is that Hill’s problems in 2008 started in spring training, not early in the regular season. He had NO injuries (at least, none reported) until the back issues on May 16.
Presumably, the back problems were done by October or he wouldn’t have gone to winter ball.
Hill had similar problems in his first couple of recalls to the Cubs. Look at his numbers in 2005 and 2006, for example.
His problems do appear to be psychological. I doubt the Cubs would have given up on him if they thought he had anything left.
Good luck, and let us Cubs fans know when he throws strikes again. I expect to be waiting a long time, and surely you can come up with a better retort than that lame “let us know when you win a World Series” comment. Believe it or not, we’ve heard that one before.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
You see, we have nothing
to lose here, really. Hopefully the pressure of playing in CHI will be gone, and Hill may thrive in a different setting. He should realize that this could be his last chance, but he won’t be the only one in that boat coming into ST.
In fact, he won’t be the only former Cubbie in that boat. Won’t you be irritated if these guys work out?? But I don’t count on much, so thanks for the cast-offs, we’ll make do just fine. Good luck with that World Series thing…ur much closer than we.
The blues have always been American, as American as apple pie. The question is...why?
Al
is a giant douche. I wouldn’t let him ruin your opinions of any Cubs fan. Let others do that. You didn’t give up anything and chances are you didn’t get anything with Hill. We’ll see.
by cubsfan2883 on Feb 3, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm cool...
…with Cubs fans. They’re super devoted and that’s something I can, of course, respect being an O’s fan. However you find a certain variety that talk tons of shit, with nothing to show for results (of course). Those guys I can do without.
grow up
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
Al
is an ass. Don’t mind him, this was a great move by the O’s and any real Cub fan wouldn’t want anything but the best for Hill considering he didn’t lose his control on purpose and our team didn’t have a spot for him this year.
Sam Fuld is the more accomplished Major League Hitter- Gordon Wittenmeyer
dear every dude banned at bleed cubbie blue
I don’t care about your opinion on Al. I cannot stress this enough. Save it for the sauna.
As for the baseball part, we agree.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
he
banned me from the sauna.
Sam Fuld is the more accomplished Major League Hitter- Gordon Wittenmeyer
Probably shouldn’t have brought food in there.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
i know
i showed up with some coleslaw and BAM I was out on my feet.
I gotta say I’m a little sad that the two “untouchables” in last year’s offer for Roberts are now Orioles for pennies on the dollar.
Sigh.
Sam Fuld is the more accomplished Major League Hitter- Gordon Wittenmeyer
I'd imagine
It probably also doesn’t help that they sucked. And will likely still suck. But hey you never know! Ehh. I like both deals considering the stage the Orioles are at in rebuilding, but I expect little. If they were so good we wouldn’t have them for Garrett Olson and a PTBNL.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
you are probably right
I loved the Corey Patterson deal to…but still
bet Arizona wants Carlos Quentin back right now…and I am sure Cleveland would take back Jeremy Guthrie and Brandon Phillips…
Roll the dice….
sure there's a shot
And Hill and Pie both have real talent. MacPhail pulled two nice deals there, the Hill deal making the Pie deal better.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
yep
and if you would have told me at this time last year Ryan Dempster was signing a contract for 52 million dollars I would still be laughing for at least two months…
and that and the Kyle Farnsworth contract might be the worst of the offseason. I still think Dempster is a fluke and that Harden is going to be very lame and Big Z might just be a better hitter in 2009 then pitcher.
As good as the Cubbies look on paper I think they can fall a lot quicker then you might imagine.
How much did PINIELLA have to do with it?
He’s not exactly known for his patience with young players. Diamond Dave has the luxury of having patience. And if it doesn’t work out, what have we lost? Reallyk, no downside for the O’s on this. Why the hell not?
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
Its a good deal for you guys
but Al is right, Hill’s problems are all in his head. Even when he pitched well in 2007, he would get in his own head. If he gave up a hit or walked a guy he would trudge around the mound moping about it and then compound his mistakes and give up a big inning. If you guys can get his head straight you never know, he could pan out to be a solid pitcher…….he’s got all the talent needed.
Hill disagrees.
Hill relates his inability to throw strikes with a lower-back injury suffered in the middle of spring training that caused him to alter his delivery while seeking a method that would ease the discomfort. The result was 18 walks in 19 2/3 innings with the Cubs and stops at three levels of their farm system, including rookie-league Mesa. Hill also walked 23 batters in 21 innings in the Venezuelan Winter League.
Hill said the injury, to a “little joint” in his back, often occurs when attempting to lift something heavy.
“I tried to compensate so I could compete,” he said. "It kept building and building, and every start it would get worse and worse.
“I blame myself for continuing on and trying to fight through it.”
School of Roch – MASNsports.com
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
still
I tend to think that publicly calling a player out for being looney toons is sort of a weird move for someone in the position of Hendry or Piniella. Chances are he stinks, but chances are even higher you guys get back an even crappier player. It’s not win-win or lose-lose or win-lose, it’s probably just eh-eh.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
Honestly though...
…if you look up Scrap Heap on Wikipedia, you’ll see a photo of Rich Hill standing on a Rookie League mound with a look of exasperation on his face. Unless somebody changed it already. Those entries can be edited by anyone!!!
Thanks
Thanks for the link and the love.
Pitching, defense and three run homers

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