Ryan Howard resigned $54M/3 years
by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 8, 2009 4:31 PM EST
32 comments
This is a bit off topic, but doesn't that seem like grossly overpaying for a guy with 2 years of arbitration left? Especially a guy whose stats have been declining every year. Seems that in comparison, Markakis was a huge bargain. Heck, they could have signed Adam Dunn for probably around $10M to $12M/year (assuming he could play 1B).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3892759
MVP award aside, this makes no sense to me.
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Even with this deal
I heard somewhere the Phillies and Howard would part ways amicably after the 2011 season.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
chicks dig the long ball
he puts up those gauding HR and RBI numbers, but he’s a pretty one-dimensional player. I think, given the current market for no-defense sluggers, he’s overpaid. Oh well.
also...
he profiles as one of those big-bodied, short lifespan sluggers a la moe vaughan. maybe we’ve alreasy seen the best he’s got?
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by the third year of that deal
I do believe he’ll be the Angels/Mets vintage Mo Vaughn. Not a great deal for the Phils. Not sure what else they could have done then.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Feb 8, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
cut him?
it’s a PR disaster. I guess they couldn’t cut him.
Arbitration is screwed up. It uses really dumb stats.
that's the truth
and by those stats, he looks fabulous. it’s just when one knows to look at the precipitous decline in his OBP over the past 3 years that one says, holy crap, $18 million? but it still seems as if too few people know to do so.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Feb 9, 2009 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
Pat gillick was old-school
I dunno about Ruben Amaro. But he did sign whatsisname, the new LF. Ibanez.
I wasn't a big fan of the Ibanez signing
Howard is a fan favorite….let’s hope it still looks good in a few years
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
Mo Vaughan was so awesome though
my rich boston relatives once got me a signed game worn Mo Vaughan jersey for my birthday.
the thing is enormous. I also got a Nomar Garciaparra one.
Let nme guess....
Nomar’s was an Adult M compared to Mo’s Adult XXXL.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
Phils didn't overpay
If they went through arbitration for the next three years, he would have gotten this amount, maybe even more if he kept on piling up those HR/RBI numbers.
Phils had two choices here, either trade Howard or be subject to his outrageous salary demands for the next three years. Since they chose the latter, they could either battle Howard in arbitration hearings (in which they already lost one) or simply buy out the remaining years at a “safe” price.
I’m guessing there was little to no interest in the trade market for Howard, considering all the big names still unsigned. Phils were stuck in a pretty crappy spot here but did what they had to do.
It’ll start to look pretty bad if his numbers take yet another slide next year though
You hit all the right points
and the Phillies werent going to trade Howard this year. The Phillies believe this is their window of success with Howard, Hamels, Ibanez, Madson, etc all signed for the next three years. Going to be a very expensive payroll for them…if they fall back someone is going to have to get purged…
I know they lose Eaton (Texas and Philly both misjudged this guy) and Feliz but pretty much this team is locked and loaded. Myers might have to be moved and not sure where Rollins is contract wise….
There is actually a third choice
Don’t offer arbitration. As unthinkable as that is, they could not offer arbitration, which I believe would make him a FA. They could then go back and sign him as a FA. It’s hard for me to imagine Howard getting more than $12M in this market.
Just seems like a very bad deal when you end up paying an arbitration player vastly more than they would make as a FA.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 8, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
well yeah
but as a free agent he isnt signing with the Phillies…the reality is they think he will continue to perform at this level for the next three years and if he did he was going to at least get raises through arbitration.
The Phillies made an expensive problem go away for three years the best way they could. They didnt lock up Howard for more then his arb years and it makes sense for a franchise thinking they are competing for the next two-three years at least.
If they offer him 30-50% more than what his market value is, then I think they have an extremely good chance of signing him. Maybe I’m completely misreading the market, but his market value right now is in the $10-12M mark. If they offer him $15M, they are still saving $3M/year and I would have to assume would be the highest offer out there. I could be misreading this market, but nobody would go over $15M right now for him.
And he only put up a 124 OPS+ last year, so I think they better hope for him to more than continue his current level of production.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 9, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Its an interesting concept
in a test tube kind of way. I just dont think you can apply it in this situation although Florida does it every season right? They just moved Jacobs, Olsen, Willingham, Gregg cause they dont think they are worth the arb values they will receive. OF course someone is willing to take them on since they only have a one year commitment.
Andy just did it with Daniel. This situation reminds me when Atlanta moved Millwood for Estrada a few years back and we all thought they were looney. If the Philles were non contenders this year they just might have non tendered Howard in this environment. But they arent.
Next offseason we could really see some strange stuff. Probably mid season as well. It still wouldnt surprise me if Miguel Cabrera comes on the market if Detroit struggles again.
Somewhere,
an unemployed Adam Dunn just screamed, “What the F*CK!?!?”
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
but Adam Dunn hates baseball
unlike Ryan Howard, who loves baseball, worships at the Church of Baseball, lives, eats, sleeps and dreams baseball, and singlehandedly won Philly a Champeenship.
That’s why he’s worth so much more than Dunn. Right? That has to be the reason?
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Feb 9, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
right now he must really be hating it...
again we talk about baseball inefficiency…
why arent we talking to Dunn?
because he’s looking for Ryan Howard money.
"fuck the Yankees and fuck the Red Sox and all their players and fans and former players and fans and their loved ones and pets as well!" sickuvitall
and wants to play left.
"When people ask me what my motivation is, I have a simple answer: Money."
--Jerry Reed, on acting
by j.q. higgins on Feb 10, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
well you know...
Howard money, doesnt want to DH, wants to play left….
this sounds like Manny Ramirez….
after that…musical chairs…and the last one standing is the poorest one…
Hell yeah!
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
sounds like a certain Varitek I know
"This world extends way beyond this little field of dreams we're dancing in and I want to see that world"
In one of these years, I bet Howard flirts heavily with the Mendoza line and goes sub-.300 OBP.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
as Rob Neyer said
Then the Phillies find themselves with one whopper of an albatross for six months.
well he flirted with it for three months last year
I think the Phillies might have been better to go year to year. The upside is if he kept beating them, his numbers would have had to held up. But I guess the Phillies decided cost containment was better. The Phillies off season reminds me a little of Detroit’s last year. You feel good and suddenly you want to lock up all your lose ends and then you wind up with Dontrelle Willis wrapped around your neck or a gigantic payroll and a fifth place finish. The Phillies are in a better place then the Tigers, but simple math tells me the Mets have picked up six games or so this offseason. Lidge cant be perfect again so there goes three games and the Mets bullpen should be plus three as well. Again, a simple way to look at it but I have the Mets as my favortie right now.
You would think his numbers would have to go up
But he got a huge $10M last year in arbitration. He then went on to put up his worst offensive season of his career and for that the Phils offered a $4M raise, and Ryan asked for $8M more.
This is one case where arbitration makes no sense.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Feb 10, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
well see
the Phillies probably would have won and then figured Howard is disgruntled and might lead to him having a really bad year. You are the Phillies, have 130 mil payroll, you dont want your star to drag you down. This is the mind game a front office goes through.
Personally, beat Howard, tell him to get his obp up, start strong and let that motivation drive his season. Of course, there might be hell to pay the next off season. Another set of mind games for the Phillies front office.
The Phillies were kind of between a rock and a hard place though with Howard. Still, I dont like all the Phillies moves this offseason but they pretty much got through it with everyone intact and in position to defend. I like the Chan Ho Park signing, Ibanez not so much although I doubt it hurts much in 2009 and all the other components are back. Utley and Romero already have question marks and Lidge isnt going 41 for 41. So the Phillies really need guys like Blanton and Myers to be more consistent the entire year. This should be a great division in 2009, everyone except the Nats have a legit shot to win it although the Mets and Phils are clear favorites.
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