Brad Bergesen Optioned

by PWubbs on Mar 21, 2009 5:10 PM EDT Comment 36 comments

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/surprising-roster-move.html

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2009/03/orioles_bergesen_cut.html

Roch and Schmuck both express how much they are surprised by this move. You can count me in for this as well.

I know that he had options, but Brad was the only pitcher down there earning his spot in our rotation. Guthrie pitched like crap in the WBC, but we know what he can do. Uehara is being given a spot despite not really pitching this spring. Hill is in a similar spot.

Then we have the out of option boys of Penn and Pauley. Pauley has been downright awful, but Penn has been decent at times this spring. They have the Baez experiment still going, and I can't blame them for trying it, but he has only had one, maybe two good outtings this spring among a mountain of bad ones. The Eaton signing is ridiculous, and I was pissed when I heard about it. Hendrickson is stuck on this team as well.

So, according to Schmuck, the veterans will be used to fill out the rotation (most likely). Based on that information, we should be looking for Baez and Eaton to fill out our rotation.

Guthrie, Uehara, Hill, Eaton, Baez.

If this is our rotation to start the year, I may have to tune out the Orioles until someone comes to their senses.

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ugh

please let me see SOMEONE with some kind of upside fill out one of those last two spots. Penn will do. I dont care. Baez and Eaton? Thats disguisting.

"I’m sure glad he didn’t try to bunt." - DD on Melmo's game winning double, 6/17

by daveh873 on Mar 21, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Does it really matter?

The upside guys will get their shots at some point.

by dkdc on Mar 21, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I have a feeling this team will be more entertaining to follow in the second half of the season. No reason not to give some of the retread guys a last chance to prove themselves.

by Stanicek on Mar 21, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what we said about Trachsel

by punkrawka on Mar 21, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I'm in the minority

But the Trax signing didn’t bother me and it still doesn’t even with the benefit of hindsight.

Even with Trax sucking for 8 starts, the Orioles:

-resorted to pulling two guys out of the bullpen to start (Sarfate and Albers). Both ended the year with arm injuries.

-gave 11 starts to a career minor leaguer who had a 5.70 ERA at AAA (Chris Waters).

And there were still plenty of starts to go around for the young guys (Liz and Olson), although both ended up sucking.

When your pitching is this bad, it’s all about volume. If optioning Bergesen allows the O’s to keep an out of options guy like Pauley or Bass and squeeze a few starts out of those guys, then I’m all for it.

I bet we’ll see at least a dozen different pitchers start for the O’s this year. Who cares who the first 5 are?

by dkdc on Mar 21, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

A dozen?

I’d put the over/under at 15.

It's 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. All the girls look hot. So, the Nationals are Jennifer Lopez to me. —Julian Tavarez

by zknower on Mar 23, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And there were still plenty of starts to go around for the young guys (Liz and Olson), although both ended up sucking.

Right, once Loewen got hurt and Trachsel got cut.

-gave 11 starts to a career minor leaguer who had a 5.70 ERA at AAA (Chris Waters).

To be fair this came much, much later and really has nothing to do with Trachsel whatsoever.

Blingo! This is why Bergesen is out.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler

by SC on Mar 23, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reading Tachsel’s name made me throw up in my mouth a litte.

by jvoelks on Mar 24, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trachsel

by jvoelks on Mar 24, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't be too upset with Eaton getting a job

but Baez is a disaster waiting to happen.

by math_geek on Mar 21, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

really is he worse then Eaton

let them both have a shot, nothing to lose….

Its pretty obvious the O’s are going to exhaust the inventory before they bring in the new stuff…and as ugly as that is at least stay on plan…since we didnt really plan ahead by picking up the free agent pitching earlier….

I still think Odalis Perez can help and at least keep talking to Pedro…

by sanders833 on Mar 21, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Odalis and Pedro

Perez I can see. He is better than much of the crap we have in camp right now and the price tag shouldn’t be too bad.

Pedro not so much. While I do think he could help us, I just don’t think the price/situation is right for either side. Plus I have spent the majority of my life disliking that guy…don’t really want him on my team.

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by sickuvitall on Mar 22, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are right

Odalis Perez or his agent agreed to a 875k deal which even in this market seems ridiculous considering Henrickson has what a 1.5 deal? Something or someone screwed that up.

As for Pedro, it seems obvious (?) he is just going to wait until he can get the highest leveraged situation for a competitior…then he can get maximize his base and incentives. If he signs mid April and doesnt pitch unil mid May that might be the best way to keep him healthy. You really dont know what motivates him to pitch…money, the competition, its just what he does. That is why I say keep talking to him, he might sign for less then you think and I guess can always be traded later (bonus included).

by sanders833 on Mar 22, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think at this point Simon has a better shot than Baez. Trembley says Baez has to get his secondary pitches working again; they’re not now.

by Ampontan on Mar 22, 2009 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll be fine with this if they’re just wanting Bergesen to prove himself in AAA before an early call-up, but should this move be an attempt to put “quality on the field for the fans,” then this is probably the stupidest move of the MacPhail era. It’s not crushing, but just flat out dumb. Let’s assume that the latter for entertainment purposes.

What is the sense in optioning a guy who is more than ready for a bunch of old pitchers with absolutely no upside or talent? This move better free up a spot for Penn and not Adam fucking Eaton.

I get livid at the acquisitions of guys like Eaton because it gives the front office an excuse to delay the arrival of prospects. Even solid players like Scott are a detriment because we know he’s not going to be around when the O’s start contending.

Let’s see what Bergesen has, and if he fails, then bring up the next guy, be it Hernandez or other I couldn’t care less. Let’s just see what each of our many prospects has because we certainly have the time.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Mar 22, 2009 7:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the plan is this....

Bergesen has been very good in ST. Let him pitch a few weeks in AAA and replicate his success there. Then, in a few weeks, when invariably one of the retreads blows a tire or proves to be as bad as we all knew he was cough-EATON-cough, then you can bring in Bergesen, fresh off success at AAA, and you’re not rushing him. The guy has never thrown an inning above AA.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Brad%20Bergesen&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=448269

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Mar 22, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The AA argument

is getting really old. Several people have made the jump without an inning in AAA. The O’s made it a point to say it was a competition and to bitch about how no one was stepping up, but they had a guy who had stepped it up and earned a spot and sent him down. This is why I am upset. If it was never a competition or if he never had a chance, then don’t tell us he is seriously being considered.

by PWubbs on Mar 22, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

old but true

look this will sort itself out and for now the O’s have said they werent going to rush these pitchers.

The Orioles have a number of swingmen right now trying to make the rotation-Henrickson, Baez, Bass, Simon, and guys we need answers on in Pauley, Eaton, Penn. Lets get this figured out and let Bergenson pitch in Triple A. We know more or less what he is capable of and believe me the O’s are going to be tapping the Norfolk staff about every two weeks….

by sanders833 on Mar 22, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have to also think...

they would like to maybe see walker and baez perform credibly enough that they can be flipped.

liz will be in the mix for the pen at some point. wilfrido perez will probably be back up, too.

let’s not forget w/ starters, as well, that patton will probably (hopefully?) be up at some point, too.

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Mar 22, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would think

Bergesen is the first one called up WHEN, not if, one of the retreads doesn’t work out. I seriously doubt he’s still at Norfolk on May 15.

Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.

by duck on Mar 22, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a good point

Why say that there is an “open competition” when you’re clearly not interested in having Bergesen pitch yet? You cannot have that competition with everyone, as a guy like Matusz stand no chance irrespective of his performance, but Bergesen should have been eligible to make the rotation if he performed better than the other candidates.

Reimold is another guy who performs on a consistent basis, yet fails to get a look at the ML level. Dump Freel and let Nolan play, what do we have to lose?

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Mar 22, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Freel brings a lot of nice things to the 25-man roster. If we’re talking the guy that hasn’t earned his gig, it’s Felix Pie. He’s going to start and I accept it, but he … really isn’t good.

Bad Left Hook
Camden Chat

"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler

by SC on Mar 23, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie

As far as I am concerned, Felix is walking a very fine line. If Reimold, or dare I say, Montanez performs down in AAA and Pie is not getting it done, I would support an immediate move. Defense this, blah blah blah. It’s friggin LF, won’t make or break us from the D side.

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by sickuvitall on Mar 24, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I’m a bit radical, but the talents that a 33 year old utility player brings don’t interest me

He’s not going to be here when the games matter, and there are ML ready prospects being blocked.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Mar 24, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cannot, I will not

accept that Freel is any better than my homeboy David Newhan! disclaimer: unless of course someone provides statiscal evidence. I will then agree to reassess my opinion.

Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark

by BPinOK on Mar 24, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do think some prospects can make the jump from AA to the majors, but I don’t think Bergesen is in that category. He’s not an elite prospect. His ceiling seems to be at the back end of the rotation, with the bullpen his most likely destination. I really think he could use the extra couple of weeks in AAA. He is sure to be the first one called up (as long as he doesn’t struggle).

It would have been “exciting” to see him in the Opening Day rotation, but I really think that excitiment would wear off quick. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’ll be seeing Garrett Olson, Part II.

by edsachs1 on Mar 23, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bergesen has no hype/expectations

He’ll just be a nice bonus if he pans out.

My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver

by Baltimo on Mar 24, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bergesen seems like the solid choice at #3

they are desperate for depth and by sending him down with the young guns..it could be a move to pit him with Weiters..and work him in too… later in the spring..

by terpsez11 on Mar 22, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can see...

this point the most… have some of these guys pitch with weiters and get used to him and when they come up… lots of improvement. Really, do you want these guys pitching against the MFY and PHN nightly getting shelled on national TV or fixing their crap in relative obscurity in Norfolk…

The veterans can take the shellings, the younger guys… I really think they have more to lose…

How could he be doing his job when he didn't throw me out of the game after the things I called him?

On arguing with ump Russ Goetz.

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by Birdland in NC on Mar 22, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The issue here are MLB vs MiLB pitchers

They have so many guys who are signed under major league contracts, guys who are out ot options, etc. that they are going to be forced to give them first shot. If they don’t work out, they’ll wind up being outrighted.

Everyone realizes that we’re not in the position to compete this year, so there’s no point in rushing guys who aren’t ready to pitch in April. So lets get some innings out of our low risk/low reward vets, give the out of options guys their shot, and later in the year we can start to bring the young guns up.

What Ted Williams didn't realize when he asked to be frozen was that when he is revived he'll have to hear about how Matt Wieters was the greatest hitter that ever played baseball.

by CoachOfEarl on Mar 22, 2009 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All good points

Throw Nolan, Matt and all the young pitchers together, let them pitch or hit in AA or AAA and dominate, keep their control in Balt for the winning years to come, and as a couple of folks mentioned let the veterans and optionless pitchers take the pounding from our AL East beasts in 2009.

We kind of see the plan. Payroll plummets in 2010, all the one timers like Freel, Walker, Baez, Mora (?), Huff will most likely be gone or at least evaluated against the free agent market and there will plenty of opportunities for youngsters and free agents alike.

Not pretty but its the plan and they are sticking to it.

by sanders833 on Mar 23, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i would be surprised...

if some of those guys aren’t dealt at the deadline. maybe add scott and sherrill to the mix?

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Mar 23, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont think you can rule out anything

re trades. I could even see the O’s trade Huff and resign him in the off season. With all the young talent I wonder if Scott isnt going to fall into the non tender consideration for the O’s, especially if Nolan and Pie are capable at basically min wage and possibly Montanez around. Take that money and add it to the free agent kitty. Of course, Luke and Nolan might make a great platoon in LF or at DH next year. Sherrill needs to prove he is healthy but he might be movable at the deadline. Right now you can add a free lefty (Beimel or Ohman I can remember which) for less then Sherrill without giving a prospect so he would be hard to deal for value.

Maintain the most flexibility, add additional organizational depth and always keep looking for starting pitching options has to be the mantra. But I think the club did one disservice to themselves in an otherwise solid offseason by not tapping the free agent pitching market. With my 20/20 hindsight that is becoming pretty clear.

by sanders833 on Mar 24, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pauley

He was just removed from starting considerations by DD. 8.18 ERA will do that to you. He should clear waivers. See you in AAA David…again.

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by sickuvitall on Mar 24, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah...

i think the david pauley experiment is over. bp characterized his stints w/ the big club last year as pretty grim. from roch’s games reports, i was getting garrett olson flashbacks…no out pitch.

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Mar 24, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if there are too many outfield/DH guys

It makes a lot of sense to platoon Pie and Reimold in left field, but keeping both Montanez and Scott seems like overkill. Scott is a valuable trade chip and should be shipped off for more minor league talent. Montanez should be a DH. The guy can hit. His defense is fine but nothing compared to Pie or Reimold. If someone gets hurt he can be plugged in as a fifth outfielder, but outside that he’s a DH all the way.
The same problem begins to bubble up when you look at Rowell who has been shifted to right field. The guy can hit…he hasn’t, but I’m sure he can eventually. His biggest flaw is his fielding. Perhaps he becomes a lumbering first baseman or corner outfielder or DH if need requires it, but outside that it seems the Front Office has surrendered themselves that he’ll be a DH for his career; if he makes it at all.

by Dr Orpheus on Mar 25, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs