Curt Schilling officially retired.
If anyone wants to say "no" on Schilling in the Hall, then OK, great. But if it ever comes down to saying "no" to Schilling but "yes" on Jack Morris thanks to "postseason heroics," then please keep their actual postseason numbers in mind, rather than the fantasies of Jack Morris dominating and intimidating every time out:
Morris: 92.1 IP, 7-4, 64 K, 32 BB, 3.80 ERA
Good numbers, plus one truly legendary game.
Schilling: 133.1 IP, 11-2, 120 K, 25 BB, 2.23 ERA
Ridiculous numbers. Bloody sock game. And then you get into the fact that Schilling (career adj. ERA+ of 127) was just way better than Morris (105). Morris threw about 600 more innings than Schilling, but struck out about 700 less batters. Morris' Hall of Fame case being mostly aided by postseason legend is a bit of a "land of make believe" situation. Schilling's isn't. Schilling is one of the great postseason performers in the history of baseball.
I'm not a particularly big fan of Schilling's either (though I have no "hate" for the guy), but I feel blessed to have seen him perform. If I had a Hall vote, he'd get mine.
about 3 years ago
Scott Christ
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Schilling is the man
Look at his 2001 postseason stats. WHAT? Absurd!
by Awesome Mike Awesome on Mar 24, 2009 5:47 AM EDT reply actions
Borderline
His rate stats are ridiculous, but his inning and win totals aren’t really that impressive. He’s pretty much Kevin Brown with a bigger attitude, no steroids and better postseason stats. To me, he’s borderline; along with Moose, who’s rate stats weren’t as impressive but pitched a ton more innings and has a lot more wins.
It does look like the HOF voters are going to have to make a lot of decisisions in the next 4-6 years. You got Bonds, Clemens and Schilling (it’s 5 years since last game played, right?) in 4 years, then Mussina. And then you have to figure Maddux, Thome, Glavine, Smoltz and Sheffield may only have 1 more year before retiring.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Mar 24, 2009 9:01 AM EDT reply actions
Maddux is done
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 24, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed that
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Mar 24, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It was really, really quiet. You’d think he wasn’t the best pitcher of his generation because it was basically, “Greg Maddux retired. He made X amount of All-Star teams and won X amount of Cy Youngs. LEBRON JAMES AND THE CAVS!”
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 24, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Not much of a decision to make on Maddux
1st ballot, what?
by fishoutawata on Mar 27, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Easy first ballot
But would you want Schilling or Maddux pitching for you in the post season?
Pick your poison. Maddux threw 198 postseason innings (!) (!!!!) and had a 3.27 ERA. BUT HE’S NO JACK MORRIS
He had a 2.09 ERA in five World Series starts.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 31, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Good article on FanGraphs
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/later-schill
I will not rest until America has universal health care and Derek Jeter is seen for the overrated starfucker he truly is! ~2632
That article reminds me of another thing that might help him with Hall voters (and I think it’s stupid that this will help him, but Hall voters are peculiar squirrels): He was, like, THE player voice against steroids.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 24, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
w/o looking at numbers...
i’d say him and pedro martinez are similarly situated for HOF consideration. personally, i’d think they both make pretty good additions.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
i should elaborate...
i mean, him and pedro don’t have the gaudy counting stats that seem to be required of inductees that are startin pitchers nowadays, but they had some pretty serious runs of dominance and the fact that they their numbers might suffer due to some injury issues shouldn’t be coutned against them.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 24, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
pedro's run of dominance
was koufaxian. schilling’s was merely otherworldly. I think Pedro gets in before Schill. But I think both of them and Moose should all be in.
i agree...
let’s remember: even the great jim palmer didn’t reach 300!
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 24, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Everytime I think of Schilling ....
… I’m reminded of the darkest day in Oriole history.
That was when we traded Eddie Murray. Not only ws trading Eddie a huge mistake in itself, it led directly to the Glenn Davis trade. At the time, I was not adverse to getting Davis, but I was ticked because I thought we paid too high a price. Specifically, I thought including Schilling was a mistake. He was the deal breaker to me, even though at the time, he hadn’t really done much at the big league level. I was just convinced he was going to be a good starting pitcher. One that would help create another in a long line of great Oriole staffs.
Turned out I was half right.
hakkaa päälle !
word, SC
He’s someone who I’ll look back and think “Damn, I’m really glad I was around to watch that guy.”
"Believe it or not, I read the paper." - Nick Markakis
Schilling belongs in
with Blyleven, Moose and Morris.
morris who?
jack?
wow.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 24, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Morris is just not in the same league with any of them
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 25, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I know the arguments
about Morris and since computers arent doing the voting I say he is.
You know the arguments about Morris? Then how do you defend him? I don’t have a thing in the world against Jack Morris. Computers aren’t to “blame” for Morris not being Hall-worthy. Statistics are just records of things that happened in ballgames. Morris wasn’t good enough for the Hall. Not close to it.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 26, 2009 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I do
because if you isolate a large percentage of his career he was one of best pitchers in baseball, part of three WS champions, and has a signature moment in baseball history.
I dont blame computers, I just dont think they always tell the complete story and I guess I am willing to stretch a little for Morris.
No, if you look at his last two seasons
he was shot…
Believe it or not those last two seasons don’t drag his numbers down into not Hall-worthy. They were already not Hall-worthy.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 31, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Arguments against
yes I know them, I can also present the argument for. Both arguments are all over the internet. I watched him play so I guess that leans me to the grumpy old man side…
I can also present the argument for.
It’s a really bad argument that’s easily debunked is the problem. It has nothing behind it but foggy memories that don’t hold up when he’s put up against other HoF pitchers.
I grew up in Michigan where Morris was half a Roman God for my formative years and then he went over to Minnesota where I saw him, in one of my first baseball memories, throw one of the greatest games I’ve ever seen to this day. When that game is on ESPN Classic or something it STILL amazes me. Jack Morris was a workhorse and had some good seasons, though never a great one — never, and I seriously mean that, he NEVER had a great season.
To compare it to a modern pitcher, Jack Morris’ best years were comparable to…Jeremy Guthrie. Which should tell you one of two things: Either Guthrie is awesome (which he’s really not, God love him) or memories of Jack Morris might be slightly nostalgic and overstated.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Mar 31, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good riddance you arrogant bastard!
Please take your soapbox home with you. I hope I never hear your opinion on another issue as long as you (or I) live.
says a person posting on a blog
by Awesome Mike Awesome on Mar 24, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 24, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved hearing his opinion
cause he either said exactly what you were thinking and most players, GMs wouldnt say or he was just so totally wrong you would laugh aloud.
Ghosts of the Glenn Davis Trade
Well, the Ghosts of the Glenn Davis trade are finally all gone. Thank you Pete Harnisch, Steve Finley, and Curt Schilling.
O's Fan in DC
Wow
Its been awhile since I really thought about it in that regard. That shite would never happen now…I think.
Facial hair adds character...support Birds for Beards!
+1
Schilling, Finley and even a not too shabby Pete Harnisch. Just imagine if we had those guys in the late 90s…
Librarians are hiding something
I'd have settled for '96 and '97 alone...
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
thing is...
at least when he was on the mound, you didn’t have to listen to his yammering. what do you think he’s going to do w/ his free time?
dios mio, maign.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 24, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
haha...
funny take from the new republic.
“a salute to curt schilling, the ron burgundy of baseball.”
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=4e337a01-e3da-4df6-a67e-055f827c4038
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
[Schilling’s] former GM in Philadelphia, Ed Wade, once quipped that Schilling was a “horse” every fifth day, and a “horse’s ass” the other four.
What a great line.
LOL... nice piece
And I think that label (Ron Burgundy of baseball) may stick!
by fishoutawata on Mar 27, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
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