I like Lou Montanez now
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 5:28 AM EDT
in Spring Training
78 comments
That's right. I read an article on the internet, and now I like Lou Montanez.
Not only does Montanez come off like a humble guy that has learned from some mistakes, but openly attributing his failure to live up to his draft spot and early hype to a poor attitude sort of endears me to him, and even sort of gives me the hope that maybe he'll actually be a good player in Major League Baseball.
It's foolish, but sometimes I'm a sucker.
What's really turning me on Montanez is his competition, Felix Pie. While Montanez is hitting .354/.415/.438 this spring, Pie is batting a paltry .200/.260/.267 -- a .527 OPS. Against spring pitching.
Making that even worse is the fact that his glove has stunk, and that was supposed to be his biggest asset. But then we heard that about Luis Hernandez, too.
Let's not beat around the bush about it, because others have stopped doing it, too. Felix Pie was a vanity pickup by Andy MacPhail, or perhaps an obsession pickup. His top prospectdom had a lot to do with tools that may have made him a good baseball player. Pie is 24, which isn't old, but when your Major League line is .223/.284/.331 in 260 at-bats, it starts looking kinda old. Montanez finally made it to the bigs late last season and his mediocre .295/.316/.446 line is better than Pie has to offer.
It's also not like Pie has torched the minors at any point. He didn't stall like Montanez did, but he wasn't exactly lighting it up down there. He's hit .299/.353/.470 in 2500 minor league at-bats. Better than Montanez's mediocre career minor league numbers, yes, but isn't the point that he's supposed to be better? If he can't actually outplay Montanez (and he has not this spring, make no mistake about that), then why did we even get him?
MacPhail has done a great job so far and this won't be some make-or-break deal either way. Neither of them are likely to be the long-term solution, I don't think. But Pie was acquired because he's Andy's boy and Andy thought this was the right situation for him. If he can't hit and can't field, the situation was not right for him no matter what the team's expected W-L record was.
Now if Pie plays well and shuts me up, then great! We have a good left fielder, and Montanez is just sort of SOL unless someone gets hurt. But they're talking platoon with Ryan Freel, who hasn't been healthy in years and is a great idea in the superutility role, but not much further than that. They're talking platoon with Ryan Freel, and we're talking about the guy MacPhail went out and purposely got to start in left. He has no minor league options left, he's been left for dead by another organization, and this just isn't a great start in Baltimore for Felix Pie. If he flops as hard as it looks like he might, Andy will have some 'splainin to do.
I also feel it's worth mentioning that Luke Scott is a better player than both of them and that we wouldn't even be having this conversation if the team had signed a first baseman.
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actual photo of Andy MacPhail
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wayward O read my mind
It stands to reason that something has to give in the logjam of bench players for the club. Though his past performance has not indicated such productivity, Lou M. has done nothing but hit the ball when he’s had an O’s uniform on.
And what’s to become of Scott Moore, who is having another great spring but appears not to be in the team’s plans.
by Fred Sanford on Mar 28, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That has been my main sticking point
about Lou. Yes he certainly failed with the Cubs, but he has yet to fail with us. His bat has been scorching for the better part of a year-and-a-half now. Hopefully he can keep it up in Norfolk and force the issue. If we can get just a few productive seasons out of the guy that would be such an unexpected bonus.
Now let’s not forget that Mr. Nolan Reimold appears to have developed rather nicely now as well. To rule him out of all this would be foolish. I still would like to see him try first base though.
Felix Pie…well at least we didn’t give up Brian Roberts to get him!!
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 28, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Montanez
y’know, the scorching is an overstatement. If he’d have kept up his slash stats of a year ago with the O’s as the everyday left fielder, it would SO not be good enough.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that his slashes wouldn’t have been great, but he wasn’t playing consistently at the time. He had been playing everyday down in Bowie and then all of the sudden was relegated to playing like every third day. I honestly think that something like that, combined with the strength of the competition, caused the mediocrity. With extensive playing time I truly feel that Lou would impress…and there really isn’t anything that can be said that will convince me otherwise. Until Montanez fails with us, I am on his team and will continue my support.
By the way, Luke Scott in 2008: .257/.336/.472. Yes these are better than Lou’s brief stint with the big club, but not by much. Let’s not make more out of Luke Scott than what is there. Dude, .257, really?? Also, watching Luke when he is in one of his legendary ‘slumps’ is the most painful shit ever next to watching Kevin Millar throw the ball back to the pitcher off the wrong foot!
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 28, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but, BAH!
.257 batting average means fuck all.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 28, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a great OBP either, though
Adequate, but not great. But yeah, as we all know BA is essentially useless.
by pipkin on Mar 29, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luke Scott in 2008: .257/.336/.472. Yes these are better than Lou’s brief stint with the big club, but not by much.
Scott had many more ABs though. Not to mention, Luke’s glove is much better than Lou (assuming you trust defensive metrics).
In looking at 2009 player projections for Lou, he’s really nothing special (ZiPS – 750 OPS, CHONE – 749 OPS, Marcel 777 OPS). He looks like a 4th OF. Luke should be our LF, but Pie has upside whereas Lou’s upside is pretty limited. I don’t like PIe at all in LF but I’ll acknowledge he has more upside than Lou. Lou, if given full time playing job, could maybe be a passable starter in LF. I’m not trying to bash Lou, but there’s isn’t much evidence that he can be a good LF.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Mar 28, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You trust defensive metrics?
Brave soul.
by PWubbs on Mar 28, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’ s not as simple as that. It’s one piece of evidence that carries flaws, like almost EVERY measure ever built.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Mar 28, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One way that is not flawed is to watch them play and make your own opinions instead of trying to understand a highly debated metrics system. Luke Scott is average at best in LF. He makes plays, but he cannot be trusted to cut balls off down the line or get balls in the gap because he lacks range and speed. So yes, he fields the ball well when he gets to it, but he doesn’t really get to it often.
by PWubbs on Mar 28, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One way that is not flawed is to watch them play and make your own opinions instead of trying to understand a highly debated metrics system.
This is the easiest way to accept that Luke Scott must be bad at left field, yes. One way to tell Derek Jeter is good at shortstop is to watch him jump and dive. I also don’t really know what we’re arguing here; Montanez is a pretty lame left fielder myself, which I learned with my eyes.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MYself? himself
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spent time in NY
and watched Jeter. If you watch him, you know he is not a good fielding shortstop. His arm is lacking and the routine plays seem to be a challenge for him.
by PWubbs on Mar 28, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I’ve seen him do THINGS. Listen, dude, I’m not attempting to slam the ability of your eyes, but telling me that a person’s eyes aren’t a flawed way to judge defensive ability but all metrics are is a little bold.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes of course
anecdotal evidence gathered by an individual is ALWAYS more valuable than carefully measured statistics, statistical comparisons, and etc.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Mar 28, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One way that is not flawed is to watch them play
Come on, man, reread what you just posted…
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Mar 28, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One way that is not flawed is to watch them play and make your own opinions instead of trying to understand a highly debated metrics system.
I think a piece of me just died today
by math_geek on Mar 28, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, who let Murray Chass on here?
I’m not saying def stats are perfect, but less so than watching someone like Jeter make a routine play look difficult and deciding that he’s the greatest SS EVAR.
AndHedges: soo... when do I get to throw a couple of pitches and complain about "tightness?"
by CoachOfEarl on Mar 29, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His bat has been scorching for the better part of a year-and-a-half now.
98 OPS+ is not scorching.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Mar 28, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer traditional stats
such as his combined .330 BA, 29 HR, and 111 RBI in 2008 to speak for my case. And actually I am growing tired of the Montanez subject…he isn’t going to be on the big club anyway, so we are discussing a moot point. Let him go to AAA and see if he can keep this up. Then Pie will inevitably fail and we can re-open this debate when Lou is called up. Unless of course they decide to put Luke back out there. And there is also Nolan Reimold…damn, somebody has to go!
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 29, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that's great
Batting average is worthless (and his is pretty empty), RBIs are a reflection of the players around him more than what he did himself (Tony Batista has had awful 100-RBI seasons, and so have many guys), and his home runs came in his 16th try at Double-A ball.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Pie
I went to a ST game on Thursday – which I plan to post some pics from once I get back to Baltimore – and had the chance to see Pie “play”. He probably made he strongest impression of anyone in the game (aside from perhaps Hayden Penn, who looked horrible).
I first noticed that during warm ups Pie was doing these running exercises in the outfield but was doing them, well, half ass. He’d line up to sprint but just sort muck about when he started running. At first I figured he was just trying to, I dunno, stretch his muscles out slow, but he kept doing it. These slow jogs from a sprinter’s stance. He looked as though he was someone who didn’t care but was still going through the motions.
Then the game started. He didn’t look so hot at the plate, but he did get one sorta lucky hit, where he didn’t smack the ball very hard, but it slipped through and also drew a walk. But what really struck me was his defense. He misplayed a couple of flies into the OF which both turned into extra base hits and his throws back into the infield were both lazy and ugly. There was one play where he could’ve easily gunned down a runner at 2nd, but he fucked around and then when he finally threw it missed the base by about 20 feet.
Overall I got the impression that mentally, Pie just wasn’t into the game.
by Jonny Pops on Mar 28, 2009 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
montanez now
i agree about Lou. I also think that Wigginton could get the Pie ab’s. Move Scott to left, Wigg. to first, Huff DH. I also liked Salazar’s bat for that matter. In summation, Lou Montanez, Nolan Riemold, or Oscar Salazar are 3 right handed guys who could ultimately supplant the lefty’s Scott or Pie, both of whom overswing and hit around rather than inside the baseball (much like Millar). So there is depth; will be interesting to see if Trembley goes with straight platoons from the beginning
by albaman on Mar 28, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McPhail's Reclamations
aren’t always going to turn into gold. You say, this guy needs a whole year of basically pressure free major league baseball to develop. Adam Jones developed. That doesn’t mean it’s always going to work out that way. I’m okay with letting this ride out a few months, since Spring Training is a sample size and all.
If Pie is still sucking eggs at the start of June, then we can start moving on. Anything past that would be cruel to me.
spring breeze / the green field / tempts me to play catch
by elk on Mar 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The shine had never come off of Adam Jones with Seattle. He’s not a comparable case to Pie.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 28, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou Montanez
I have a program signed by him!
by Robertsfan on Mar 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's not something to do
"In a couple of weeks or a month, I'll be excited about this team," Dawkins said. "I've got to get used to saying that -- I'm a Bronco." Then he paused. "I'll tell you one thing -- I'll always be an Eagle."
by exitfare on Mar 28, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ironically, we have a first basemen named Ty Wigginton
I get how we’re supposed to somehow appreciate Felix Pie’s magic talent. But it does pretty much go to show that spring training is a farce.
by math_geek on Mar 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Woah
math_geek posted at the same time I did!………..Cool
by Robertsfan on Mar 28, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This just in
Lou Montanez has, and always will, suck.
“But he won the AA Triple Crown”
Yeah, and I won a gold medal at the Special Olympics
"In a couple of weeks or a month, I'll be excited about this team," Dawkins said. "I've got to get used to saying that -- I'm a Bronco." Then he paused. "I'll tell you one thing -- I'll always be an Eagle."
by exitfare on Mar 28, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you talk positively
about anything? Just curious because you’ve been a downer in every post. I’m convinced your expectations for players are so low that you can’t wait for Wieters to get up here and fail just so you can tell everyone I told you so.
by PWubbs on Mar 29, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um ok, I'll bite
Yeah, I actually do talk positively about quite a few players on the team, Wierters included. I think the kid’s going to be great, but I also want to temper my expectations because he has yet to play above AA ball. Call me a skeptic, but I want to see some real major league numbers before I annoit someone king. I hope that day’s sooner than later, for now, all I can be is hopeful.
As for Montanez, he sucks. Sorry to be so blunt, but he’s not very good. I am going to cheer for him no matter what, but my expectations for him really are quite low. But then again, Felix Pie, who I actually have more hope for, seems to be mailing it in (according to Jonnypops, as well as the raw numbers), so who knows what will happen there. If you say that Montanez is better than Luke Scott, I’d have to call you crazy and refer to the excellent points made above.
Not that I really have to defend myself, but I like most of this team — Roberts, Guthrie, Jones, Markakis, etc, but there are a few people I think are particularly bad and that I wish were not on the team. I would love to see them do well and prove me wrong, but it’s probably not going to happen.
This team has sucked for 11 years, so yeah, I am a bit negative about our prospects this year and I like to complain, but I don’t expect much this year. A bunch of guys will suck, we’ll lose a bunch of games, but we’ll see some guys continue to develop, like Jones, Markakis, and hopefully Pie, among others.
"In a couple of weeks or a month, I'll be excited about this team," Dawkins said. "I've got to get used to saying that -- I'm a Bronco." Then he paused. "I'll tell you one thing -- I'll always be an Eagle."
by exitfare on Mar 29, 2009 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to kind of agree with your last point.
On a Blazer blog I get somewhat frustrated with folks that are always calling for trades, saying the coach sucks and knocking players. But Portland has a young, exciting team with loads of talent and is performing way ahead of the curve.
Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for the O’s. We have all of 2 guys, maybe 3 if you include Jones, that a playoff team would want. That sucks. So I can see it being difficult to be a ray of sunshine when talking about the Orioles.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Apr 1, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This just in
I think you are a little to negative to provide an opinion most of us will contemplate. I think Montanez is as good as anyone else we will carry on our bench. Reimond and Montanez will be waiting in Norfolk when the McPhail/Trembley “love affair” for unproven Pia is over.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put Sox
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 29, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the game when Sweet Lou hit his first ML HR. Yeah, that was aweseome.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Mar 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Recommendation
Take a look at Montanez’s stats at AAA. Then take a look at Pie’s stats at AAA. Then take a look at how old they were when they put them up. And then consider that Montanez was a 1st round pick and Pie was a free agent.
Then take a look at Pie’s minor league stats and compare them to Adam Jones’s minor league stats.
Is he loafing? I don’t know, but with Dave Trembley as manager, I don’t think there will be much to worry about. If he loafs, he won’t be in the lineup for long.
by Ampontan on Mar 29, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he loafing? I don’t know, but with Dave Trembley as manager, I don’t think there will be much to worry about. If he loafs, he won’t be in the lineup for long.
Tell Ramon Hernandez.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Trembley couldn’t stomach putting Guillermo Quiroz in the lineup every day. But, as I recall, I’d have to travel to Cincinnati to tell Ramon Hernandez anything.
by math_geek on Mar 29, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it was Dave Trembley that traded him. We got rid of Ramon and got a return before he could fat his way through another season before Wieters was ready to come up. Him going to Cincinnati is not indicative of Dave Trembley’s killer instinct and pure hatred of loafers, I don’t believe.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 30, 2009 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dave trembley is a field manager
i doubt he has much in the way of personnel decision-making responsibility. This ain’t the NFL and he ain’t Bill Parcels.
by pipkin on Mar 30, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how the free agency thing is relevant
Foreign players aren’t subject to the draft, so the Cubs just signed Pie. Montanez was in the US educational system, so he was subject to the draft.
by pipkin on Mar 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
give them a chance
lou hasnt even played in triple AAA yet. the guy is 28. I agree he can flat rake, but let him conquer triple a and see what pie can do. He’s 24. Let him play everyday and see what he can do. It’s nice having options for once isnt it!!!!
by redrockin on Mar 29, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this is what i say...
it’s a long season and it’s fair to assume that a bunch of dudes who are starting the season w/ the team will not be in b’more at the end of the year. it’s also safe to assume that we’ll probably also be seeing guys like salazar, montanez and reimold at some point this year.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Mar 29, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you to a point. You keep bringing up age. If that is the case why are we messing around with Freel and Gomez and other older guys. I don’t care if a guy is 28 as long as he can hit and play defense. Montanez and Reinmold will hit at Norfolk. They will force Trembley and McPhail to give them a chance. My thoughts on Pia is he is all hype. I wish he will be great but I just don’t see it. My request is we do not platoon him but let him play as we did Adam Jones. Scott can DH. This team has a starting pitching problem that everyone is blind to. We should sign a vet like Pedro Martinez for 2 or 3 million if possible just to make us respectable. I would hate to waste our good hitting lineup with stiffs like Gutherie, Henderickson and others.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guthrie a stiff?
I have to disagree. He’s been the ace of the staff the past two years. That’s not saying too much but he should not be compared to Hendrickson and Eaton.
by wscott on Mar 29, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not a Guthrie Fan
This is more of a condemnation of the Orioles not addressing the starting pitching the first month of the season and tanking the 2009 season before it even starts. Guthrie is a number 3 starter at best. Sorry but look at the performance on the mound. We should pick up a free agent pitcher or two that could help us into June or July when Bergenson, Hernandez, or someone from Norfolk can come up and get in the rotation. Pedro is out there. We have no pitching and that will be managements excuse.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry but look at the performance on the mound.
Alright.
2007: 175 IP, 125 ERA+
2008: 190 IP, 125 ERA+
So uh. Right. Let’s get Pedro:
2006: 132 IP, 97 ERA+
2007: 28 IP, ERA+ irrelevant
2008: 109 IP, 75 ERA+ (Daniel Cabrera territory)
Martinez is also 37 years old.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 30, 2009 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martinez is also 37 years old.
Maybe
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Mar 30, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dun dun dunnnn
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 30, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try not to pointlessly spam a Comcast page in the text of every post. Put it in your signature. I see you’ve done this on Hogs Haven, too. Don’t do it again.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has been in AAA twice
And both times he got sent back to AA.
I will not rest until America has universal health care and Derek Jeter is seen for the overrated starfucker he truly is! ~2632
by Stacey on Mar 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raw Deal for Montanez
I watched Montanez last season at Bowie, studied his career from being drafted #3 overall by the Cubs in 2003 and came to the realization that his past inmaturity cost him dearly. It was also noted that Trembley and McPhail were with the Cubs at that time and may still feel “burned” by Montanez. Thus there may be some anomosity still lingering with McPhail and Trembley. Other than that it is no doubt Montanez has produced as good as any prospect we have had in the minors or early success at the major league level. I don’t want to hear the age arguement anymore when we sign Gomez, Freel and other old bench players. The bottom line is production and Montanez produces. Pia is a product of the Cubs and McPhails ties with that organization. That is why this guy is getting all the hype and play. An earleir post asked the question if this Pia guy is so good why is he “Platooning” with Freel? Montanez deserves a chance and I hope we can make a trade and help a team down the road by giving them a solid hitter with nothing but upside. Same old Orioles it looks like.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Other than that it is no doubt Montanez has produced as good as any prospect we have had in the minors or early success at the major league level.
Are you high? You guys are making me NOT like Lou Montanez again.
I don’t want to hear the age arguement anymore when we sign Gomez, Freel and other old bench players.
Gomez is spring filler and Freel was a salary part of the deal that let us get the hell rid of Ramon Hernandez, a bad signing by the previous regime. Freel also came with younger players like Justin Turner.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flawed players
we are spending time debating which flawed player deserves a chance and it really dooest matter all that much. If Pie sucks then good riddance but he has upside tools that you give a shot. Ultimately, I want Pie or Nolan to win this job or go get someone who can hit and play defense. The others all have something to add and its Dave’s job to maximize what they can contribute as long as they are with the club.
by sanders833 on Mar 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we are spending time debating which flawed player deserves a chance and it really dooest matter all that much.
I know. Ain’t nothin’ else to talk about.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. There is nothing else to debate. However debate is good. We get to express ourselves while everything is up in the air and a pipe dream at best. To that end I feel Trembley and McPhail still harbor ill will toward Lou M. McPhails love affair with Pia better come through. His penchant for picking up worthless old players like Gomez, Freely, Patton and Millar has go to end. We don’t need old bench players to hold young guys hands. We have enough vets in Mora, Huff, Roberts and Zaun for that.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
debate IS good
I mean I might seem dismissive but I’m really not, so for those of you that are pretty new don’t take me that way. I’m just BSin’ with y’all.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 29, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton is neither old nor useless
He is one of the better pitching prospects in our system. Millar was not a signing that McPhail made. And as SC mentioned earlier, Gomez was spring training filler and Freel helped us get rid of Ramon Hernandez and came with other, younger players.
by wscott on Mar 29, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mistake on Patton
I meant Jay Payton. Sorry about that. McPhail kept Millar in the lineup when I would have traded, released or sat him to look at young talent after the allstar break such as Oscar Salazar. But McPhail had us all fooled anyway. The team was the young O’s but they played more veterans than anyone in the AL besides the Yanks. This is one fan that would rather win 60 games and see Reimond, Montanez and other youngsters play than to continue to trot our Huff, Mora, Freel, Zaun and the rest of the “youth” movement McPhail sells.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oscar Salazar is not young talent
He’ll be 31 years old this year. I get what you’re saying, I really do, but the fact is you can’t just say “Let’s play the young guys” and then put a bunch of crap on the field. When the farm system is as barren as the O’s has been over the past years, it takes time you build up young talent that is actually talented.
Oh, and as it’s a personal pet peeve of mine (having been called “Stacy” my entire life), our GM’s name is spelled MacPhail.
I will not rest until America has universal health care and Derek Jeter is seen for the overrated starfucker he truly is! ~2632
by Stacey on Mar 29, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear You
Thanks for the correction. I better learn to spell his name since his “koolaid” is being drank by Orioles fans that believe he is the savior and he will be around a long time regardless of our continued losing. Our regular players are way ahead of our pitching. We need to hire some experiance on the mound or this season will be a disaster early. Right now we have not one veteran starter capable of winning 8 games or completing one. This could turn real ugly if we don’t make a trade or get a free agent soon. I see we made a purchase today from York Revolution today. A lefthander named Stevens. It seems he has potential but did not pitch in 2008. This is a bad sign.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year is going to be a disaster
It’s not a secret. I have a bunch of reasons why the only pitchers brought in were scrubs on one year deals. Those reasons are: Matusz, Arrieta, Tillman, Britton, Erbe, Hernandez, Patton, Bergesen. Any pitcher worth half a damn would have required multi-year deals which means they’d possibly block the young pitching and would have probably not been that good anyway. They only really good pitchers, in my opinion, were AJ Burnett and CC Sabathia and the O’s weren’t getting either one of them. Most of the other choices either sucked (and we got some of them in Hendrickson and Eaton) or would have been mediocre at best and required more than one year (such as Jon Garland).
Also take into account that most mid-level pitchers aren’t going to come to Baltimore on a short term deal for a couple reasons. One, the O’s suck. Two, the O’s are in the AL East, which would only make those pitchers more ineffective. If you’re Braden Looper and you can pitch for the crappy O’s in the best division baseball or the non-crappy Brewers in the NL Central, it’s not much of a choice.
You’ll probably call me one of the kool aid drinkers, but the fact is Andy MacPhail has a plan. The plan is to stock the minors with pitchers so that the team won’t be reliant on free agent pitchers. It might work, it might not. But it is his plan and he’s not deviating from it so that the O’s might win 76 games in 2009 instead of 70.
by Stacey on Mar 29, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomez, Freely, Patton and Millar has go to end. We don’t need old bench players to hold young guys hands. We have enough vets in Mora, Huff, Roberts and Zaun for that.
Gomez is a dude. He’s just a dude. He’s cheap, he fields well, and he’s completely irrelevant and may not even make the team.
Acquiring Ryan Freel was a necessary evil in getting rid of Ramon Hernandez. We also got two prospects in that trade. Freel isn’t terrible, and has value off the bench, so we’re keeping him since we have to pay him anyway. It still saved us some salary, improved the team, and got rid of Ramon Hernandez. That’s what I call a triple crown.
Andy MacPhail had nothing to do with signing Jay Payton and Kevin Millar. He actually cut Jay Gibbons.
Finally, if they have such ill will towards Lou Montanez, then why did MacPhail go and acquire Montanez in the first place? Hmm?
by math_geek on Mar 29, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's how I see it
Pie has the highest potential, and is out of options. Cheap, scrapheap pickup that AM is in lust with, so he’ll get the Adam Jones treatment, will play every day this season no matter how crappy he was in ST, because this is the only shot the team is able to give him. It’s put up or ship out time for him.
Luuke has a little more versatility, we’re paying him some decent coin, so he’s also on the roster. He’s a platoon OF, and possible DH, we’ve discussed this to death. He’s not going anywhere, given the market.
Montanez is not out of options, and we have a crowded OF, so this is why he’s going to be in Norfolk. He could be hitting .400/500/650 in ST, but that wouldn’t change anything. He’s had struggles in the minors, his ceiling has come down quite a bit, but he’s still showing flashes of potential. This makes him trade bait, unless Pie reaches his potential.
AndHedges: soo... when do I get to throw a couple of pitches and complain about "tightness?"
by CoachOfEarl on Mar 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Get It
Well I am itching for the season to begin. I plan to split my time between Norfolk and Bowie the first two months. I am not interested watching the Orioles so early. It is torture to watch so called major league pitchers that don’t have a clue where the strike zone is or how to get batters out. I hope i am wrong but with no number 1, 2, or 3 starter we are DOA before the opening pitch.
by Baysox39 on Mar 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Since you will
be going there often, don’t know if you heard about the promotion in Bowie on June 17. They are giving away a Matt Wieters figurine. Not quite sure what to expect, but it isn’t a bobblehead.
Now of course, this is the same night as Adam Jones bobblehead night in Baltimore, so there are some decisions to be made.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Mar 29, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
we’ve got a lot of new people.
OU just played the most uninspired game I’ve seen in a long time.
Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark
by BPinOK on Mar 29, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw the OU game coming after...
watching the Blake Griffin interview after their sweet sixteen win. They were in AWE of Carolina, and that beat down came because the Griffin Brothers knew their guards couldn’t hit shots two nights in a row.
Sorry for the basketball moment.
Our pitching could be HISTORICALLY bad. I was hoping to look up some of the worst pitching staffs ever and come up with a list to compare this bunch of retreads to!
How could he be doing his job when he didn't throw me out of the game after the things I called him?
On arguing with ump Russ Goetz.
Mark Henry Belanger
by Birdland in NC on Mar 29, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
the guards were terrible. Blake still got his 20 and 10. Hansborough pisses me off. He looks like an owl. He was pretty average out there but NC is so deep and their guards are really good. They put up Pie numbers from the three point line. But that’s been the big IF all year.
That DET staff a few years ago was really bad. Like 5 years ago maybe? The Rangers staff nearly every year is bad. HISTORICALLY bad is probably going to take some work but it’s looking like they could make a push for the record books.
Always trust your cape. -Guy Clark
by BPinOK on Mar 29, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
How WHITE was Hansbrough’s attempt to THROW ONE DOWN in the FACES of Oklahoma? Big grunt, big leap, and then about three inches short horizontally. Hahahaha, make layups and leave it at that, guy. Big dunks are for Blake Griffin.
I also think it’s unfortunate that more people didn’t pick up on the fact that when Griffin “hilariously” banged his head on the backboard against ‘Cuse that he goddamn near broke his neck. That could’ve been horrible ugly.
OU was out-gunned by UNC and knew it. They played like crap. It reminded me of what happened to my high school teams back in my middle school days. We had one great player (James Singleton first, Antwan Ficklen second) and we always thought we could DO DIS. But then we’d get to the district final and the team with four good players would just kick the piss out of us and we’d watch poor James or Antwan struggle to salvage their pride and our hopes and dreams. There was a similar “Wonder Years” episode.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Mar 30, 2009 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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